Xbox One 50Hz TV signal judder explained


Recommended Posts

Wouldn't those same people be upset to find out that the hdmi-in port on their X1 was disabled all together? As you said, they wouldn't go and read MS' announcement anyway. Lets remember, the issue is only tied to live TV, there is nothing stopping people in Europe from using the function with other devices. So it still has some utility even while this bug is present.

But again, I have no idea if the lack of 50hz support is a bug or if its part of the delayed support that MS spoke about.

If it is a bug, then MS may be working on a fix. Either way, I hope people are not just talking on forums but are actually contacting MS. I want to hear what their response is once so many users contact them. It should light a fire under them.

Just found this thread, lots of people having an issue here.

 

http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_support/xbox_one_support/f/4277/t/1625661.aspx

It's not easy, actually verging on downright impossible to patch this. All the games/UI would have to be reprogrammed to 50hz.

 

 

umm no games or UI's are hard coded to 50hz. that's just what they're rendered at.

 

either way, I don't believe this would affect games at at all anyway since I don't' think you can snap games with live tv and show both ? the change would be a fairly non dramatic change that limits the X1's output of any rendering to 50fps whenever something is snapped or overlaid with live TV, or any input that works at 50hz. 

umm no games or UI's are hard coded to 50hz. that's just what they're rendered at.

 

either way, I don't believe this would affect games at at all anyway since I don't' think you can snap games with live tv and show both ? the change would be a fairly non dramatic change that limits the X1's output of any rendering to 50fps whenever something is snapped or overlaid with live TV, or any input that works at 50hz. 

 

You can

 

 

The UI is always going to run at 60hz as it has to to support the games.

I didn't have audio here, but isn't the sportcenter thing a live streaming service they have ?

 

either way, it would be a "relatively" simple jub of capping the output fps on the X1 to 50 when snapped with 50hz input. 

It's something typical for Microsoft. They offer all services in the US, some in the UK too and if you go anywhere else (like mainland Europe, Belgium, where I live) you just lose out. On everything. And they delay stuff, other stuff isn't available, badly localized, ... And that's every consumer-oriented Microsoft division that does this.

Microsoft is working heavily towards a more non-USA friendly console. Developing a console that offers great value for every customers in the whole world is a heavy task and Microsoft is hard at work to give customers in the launch markets the best possible experience. The delay in 8 countries also covers the development of entertainment - and other - apps for these locales, as a prime example of this focus.

I am, however, not denying the existence of launch issues such as this 50Hz/60Hz image judder.

Disclaimer: I'm an Xbox Elite Team member for Microsoft Belgium, but I'm not blindly defending the Xbox One, but just explaining what's going on, and what to expect going forward. 

  • Like 1

I managed to stop the panning judder mostly by turning OFF 'FILM AUTO 1' in my Sony TVs settings, but this doesn't stop my main problem where the whole TV picture can randomly freeze for a split second or in worst case i was getting a message on the screen saying the Xbox has lost the TV signal.

 

Mine was doing this too, but I tried a new HDMI cable and it worked flawlessly after that.

back in the day between NTSC and PAL you could make an arguement for 50hz. when we went to digital signals and HDTV it should have been standardized.

XKCD got you covered

 

standards.png

back in the day between NTSC and PAL you could make an arguement for 50hz. when we went to digital signals and HDTV it should have been standardized.

It is.

 

Go to wikipedia, check them (HD standards) out and pick one ;-P

It's not easy, actually verging on downright impossible to patch this. All the games/UI would have to be reprogrammed to 50hz.

But the key is that MS already demonstrated that it can be patched in. Right now, I can set bluray disc playback to 24hz. That means that while the movie is full screen, it sticks to that. If I switch to the dash, it switches back to 60. It really works.

So, all MS must do is add a setting in the dash to allow the TV app to operate at 50hz while full screen and just switch back when going to the dash.

Modern flatscreens shouldn't have problems displaying both 50 and 60 Hz content.  And by that I mean most tvs state those as compatible inputs. 

 

And a 2013 console shouldn't have problems with this either, microsoft should know better.

 

 

edit: read below. I didnt know we were talking about displaying 50Hz content inside a 60Hz signal 

nvm I just read whats going on.

 

this only affects the XBOX one trying to output the TV input. the xbox works at 60Hz and the TV is 50Hz.  tough luck. Im sure they can improve the conversion software or momentarily turn the output to 50Hz (like the ps3 annoyingly does every now and then)

So if you look at it rationally our tech is actually superior and more suitable for pretty much everything, including backwards compatibility. What Microsoft did here is just a typical Microsoft compromise where they release a feature that's only really well-rounded, finished and working properly for the US, as usual.

 

(and seta-san, as MikeChipshop said, you really are quite ignorant)

is TV functionality even available/supported in the Europe?

Modern flatscreens shouldn't have problems displaying both 50 and 60 Hz content.  And by that I mean most tvs state those as compatible inputs. 

 

And a 2013 console shouldn't have problems with this either, microsoft should know better.

 

 

The explanation sounds like a scapegoat explanation to me and something is odd. Europe's been on 50Hz since.. EVER? Try again, Microsoft.

you seem confused. the xbox is indeed outputting 60hz, but it is receiving 50hz tv signal. this tv signal must then be shown at 60hz. if the xbox would set the tv to 50hz when the cable tv is running in full screen, then it will work fine, just like it currently does with 24hz bluray option on.

they may have to do some frame interpolation when tv is running in snap though,and it may be really good that it looks totally fine(most people I know cant even see bluray judder with 3:2 pulldown),but we don't know what they will do yet because they've already said the tv features are only supported in the US at launch. why cant some people comprehend this yet?

I have also just swapped the HDMI lead again and it still freezes.

What I don't get is why it would get worse or better at times.

Are you saying that just watching TV at full screen has been freezing more today than it was yesterday?

Out of curiosity, does that behavior change when you have an app snapped?

You would think that if this was simply a case of displaying at the wrong refresh rate, the freezing would be uniform. It would be consistent based on the dropped frames that result. How could the problem get worse is the question.

I hope it's not a repost.

 

I can confirm the Xbox One can either output 24 Hz oder 60 Hz. For us Europeans this means we are able to enjoy judder-free Blueray playback but PAL DVDs (50 Hz content in general actually) will be jerky.

 

I consider this unacceptable. They better sort this out quickly. I going to wait until early 2014. If it's not fixed by then, I'll buy a PS4.

Just to confuse things more. I just got back from my mates house and he was showing me the XB1 in action (love it btw) and no judder there. He is running through the latest Sky box mind you.

So I wonder if that new Sky box handles the signal differently than the older boxes that many are using.

I'll nip round again later in the week and see if the box has the option to kick out a different signal which it might very well do.

 

I'm still paying the over priced figure for Sky though, no matter what signal their box can kick out :p

I'll nip round again later in the week and see if the box has the option to kick out a different signal which it might very well do.

 

I'm still paying the over priced figure for Sky though, no matter what signal their box can kick out :p

That would be great to know. In fact, get the exact model number of the box. Then we can see how it compares to other boxes.

That would be great to know. In fact, get the exact model number of the box. Then we can see how it compares to other boxes.

 

Will do, i think he's off on Friday so i'll try for then. I've not been round his house for about a year before today so i don't want to make it to obvious i'm going only to look his XB1 haha

What I don't get is why it would get worse or better at times.

Are you saying that just watching TV at full screen has been freezing more today than it was yesterday?

Out of curiosity, does that behavior change when you have an app snapped?

You would think that if this was simply a case of displaying at the wrong refresh rate, the freezing would be uniform. It would be consistent based on the dropped frames that result. How could the problem get worse is the question.

Watching TV either full screen or in the home guide window has been unusable today, what I plan to do after work late this evening is to power off the x1 completely and also put the HDMI lead that came with the X1 between the TV box and console.

Did you read the link I posted earlier today. loads of people having problems some in the states too?

As long as the source material is 50 Hz, it's completely irrelevant what your Sky box outputs. Even if it allows 60 Hz output, playback will still be jerky.

 

Well i beg to differ. Having seen it in front of my very eyes.

  • Like 2

It's not that I don't trust your senses, but sometimes it's really hard to notice. It's particularly obvious in news tickers. Maybe you want to give that a try.

 

Another plausible explanation: Your buddies TV may apply some frame interpolation algorythm which manages to smoothen playback a bit.

Watching TV either full screen or in the home guide window has been unusable today, what I plan to do after work late this evening is to power off the x1 completely and also put the HDMI lead that came with the X1 between the TV box and console.

Did you read the link I posted earlier today. loads of people having problems some in the states too?

Also make sure to check for that info I mentioned earlier in the thread.

I did look at that and yes some in the US have seen the issue. That changes everything.

If its not related to the refresh rate, then this is definitely a bug and not tied to MS' delayed TV rollout for Europe. That should also mean that MS is working on a fix. I hope you have talked to MS directly about your issue.

I had been talking to a friend that has seen some freezing, but its when trying to view his htpc via the X1, not a cable box. Its definitely not a refresh rate issue.

Not everyone is having an issue and it seems to possibly be an hdcp/edid issue. Basically, the X1 is not properly identifying the device running to it and that leads to a loop of both devices checking each other over and over, resulting in freezing. It could also be related to the audio pass through portion. The X1 is using a 'beta' audio driver to support surround sound coming from your cable box/device. MS remarked that it was in beta because they discovered some cable boxes not playing nice with the X1 when outputting surround sound. That driver is unchecked by default in the settings section, but can be enabled.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • will EU users be getting the extra 1yr update for free again?
    • Samsung announces Galaxy A27 5G with 120Hz AMOLED display, expanded AI features, and more by Fiza Ali Samsung has announced the Galaxy A27 5G, its latest mid-range smartphone, bringing a handful of upgrades over last year's Galaxy A26 5G. While the changes aren't dramatic, they touch several areas that people tend to notice most in day-to-day use, including the display, performance, and software support. One of the more noticeable updates is the screen. The Galaxy A27 5G comes with a 6.7-inch Super AMOLED display that now supports a 120Hz refresh rate, making scrolling and animations appear smoother. Samsung has also switched to an Infinity-O punch-hole camera design, which leaves more room for the display and gives the phone a cleaner look from the front. Under the hood, the Galaxy A27 5G is powered by Qualcomm's Snapdragon 6 Gen 3 processor. The company says the new chip brings improved responsiveness in multitasking, gaming, and media consumption. The company also highlights GPU performance improvements and faster memory technology, which should contribute to smoother graphics rendering, quicker data handling, and improved power efficiency. Furthermore, Samsung has equipped the Galaxy A27 5G with a 12-megapixel selfie camera that is capable of capturing a wider dynamic range and more accurate colours. Like many smartphones launched recently, the Galaxy A27 5G also places a strong focus on AI features. Circle to Search with Google now supports multi-object recognition, making it easier to search for different products or items at the same time. The tech giant says the feature can also support virtual outfit try-ons directly from compatible search results. Photo editing tools are getting some attention as well, with Object Eraser updated to deliver cleaner edits when removing unwanted objects or people from images. Meanwhile, the Voice Recorder app can now transcribe and translate speech simultaneously in one of the 22 supported languages, which could be useful for meetings, lectures, or interviews. Samsung is also expanding AI assistant options on the device, with support for Google Gemini and Perplexity alongside Bixby. The company says these assistants will work more closely with Galaxy apps, including Gallery, to simplify common tasks. Samsung continues to strengthen its long-term software support policy with the Galaxy A27 5G. The smartphone will receive up to six generations of Android OS and One UI updates, along with six years of security patches from its initial global launch. In terms of security, the device includes Samsung Knox and Knox Vault, which are designed to help protect sensitive information stored on the phone. On the flip side, while the company is positioning the Galaxy A27 5G as a step forward from its predecessor, not every change is necessarily an upgrade. One of the first things buyers may notice is the higher price tag. The device launches at $349, making it $50 more expensive than the Galaxy A26 5G's $299 starting price. The selfie camera has also been reduced from 13MP to 12MP, while the ultrawide camera drops from 8MP to 5MP. Samsung has further downgraded the phone's dust and water resistance rating from IP67 to IP64. The Galaxy A27 5G is also marginally thicker at 7.8mm. The Galaxy A27 5G will be available in select markets starting July 3 and will come in four colour options, including Black, Blue, Light Green, and Light Pink. The company will also offer Samsung Care+ coverage plans for customers seeking additional device protection.
    • Doogee and Ulefone regularly release phones with 10k-25k mAh batteries, but those are bricks. I don't understand how they could make it only weigh 220 grams with a battery that size.
    • Windows 10 quietly gets one more year of support and updates by Taras Buria Windows 10 reached its end of life at the end of 2025. Microsoft kicked off the Extended Security Updates program, aimed at giving regular consumers one more year of security-only updates. By doing so, Microsoft gave users more time and money to update their computers to a newer operating system or compatible hardware. Now, with the end of the Extended Security Updates program quickly approaching, Microsoft is making an important adjustment. Users discovered that the official support article for the program now lists a new end-of-support date: The Extended Security Updates program is not a new concept. It has been an official way for business consumers to continue receiving critical updates for unsupported Microsoft products for many years. However, all this time, it was a business-only, paid feature. With Windows 10, Microsoft brought ESU to regular consumers, allowing them to get security updates for Windows 10 past October 2025 essentially for free. When Windows 10 was approaching the end of support, many guessed that Microsoft might adjust its support timelines, and this is exactly what seems to be happening. Of course, Microsoft would love everyone to switch to new computers, such as its latest Surface devices, but in the days of ever-growing hardware prices, not everyone is lucky enough to have money for a new PC. Leaving hundreds of millions of customers with a Windows version that no longer receives security updates is a major risk that Microsoft is not willing to take. If you have a Windows 10 PC to enroll in the Extended Security Updates program, check out this guide to learn how to do so.
    • Sony announces Bungie layoffs that will affect "significant number of employees" by Pulasthi Ariyasinghe Sony today announced that major layoffs are happening at its first-party studio Bungie, the developer that has spawned series like Halo, Destiny, and Marathon over the past decades. The news arrives just weeks after Bungie delivered the final update to Destiny 2, and it's that team being hit with the layoffs the most. CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment Hermen Hulst revealed the staff reduction today, calling it "painful news." "Over the past several months, together with Bungie leadership, we reviewed the studio’s long-term direction, development priorities, resource needs, and role within our broader portfolio strategy," said Hulst, explaining the decision. "We explored multiple alternatives before concluding that a reduction was necessary to align the studio’s resources with its current priorities and long-term goals." The layoffs will be hitting "a significant number of employees" across most of the Destiny franchise development team. It doesn't look like Sony is planning to continue the series following Destiny 2's sunsetting update. The studio is said to be in early stages of looking at other projects to pivot to, but it's said that keeping the size of the team at current levels is no longer feasible. "We know this decision has a profound impact on the people affected, their families, friends, and teammates," said Bungie leadership in a separate message on social media. "While these changes are necessary to best position the studio now and for the future, that does not lessen the difficulty of this moment or the impact it has on those affected." At the same time, "some" of the Marathon development team are also affected by the layoffs. The recently released multiplayer-only extraction shooter title hasn't seen a big boom of players either, but the company is reportedly hoping that the live service experience will pick up players with future updates.
  • Recent Achievements

    • First Post
      kinowa earned a badge
      First Post
    • Rookie
      krychek57 went up a rank
      Rookie
    • Grand Master
      Jaybonaut went up a rank
      Grand Master
    • One Year In
      Philsl earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Dedicated
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Dedicated
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      438
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      168
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      133
    4. 4
      Xenon
      77
    5. 5
      Michael Scrip
      75
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!