Xbox One 50Hz TV signal judder explained


Recommended Posts

Also make sure to check for that info I mentioned earlier in the thread.

I did look at that and yes some in the US have seen the issue. That changes everything.

If its not related to the refresh rate, then this is definitely a bug and not tied to MS' delayed TV rollout for Europe. That should also mean that MS is working on a fix. I hope you have talked to MS directly about your issue.

I had been talking to a friend that has seen some freezing, but its when trying to view his htpc via the X1, not a cable box. Its definitely not a refresh rate issue.

Not everyone is having an issue and it seems to possibly be an hdcp/edid issue. Basically, the X1 is not properly identifying the device running to it and that leads to a loop of both devices checking each other over and over, resulting in freezing. It could also be related to the audio pass through portion. The X1 is using a 'beta' audio driver to support surround sound coming from your cable box/device. MS remarked that it was in beta because they discovered some cable boxes not playing nice with the X1 when outputting surround sound. That driver is unchecked by default in the settings section, but can be enabled.

Ok i have messed around with things and i still have the problem which makes watching TV unusable through the console, i haven't contacted MS yet as i wanted things to settle down first and give them a chance to fix this issue with a possible update.

 

Things i have tried:

 

Snapping an app while watching TV = picture still freezes

 

Swapping HDMI cables around = Picture still freezes

 

Turning off 'Instant On' = Picture still freezes

 

Changing my cable box to 720P output = Picture still freezes

 

Swearing at it = Picture still freezes

Ok i have messed around with things and i still have the problem which makes watching TV unusable through the console, i haven't contacted MS yet as i wanted things to settle down first and give them a chance to fix this issue with a possible update.

 

Things i have tried:

 

Snapping an app while watching TV = picture still freezes

 

Swapping HDMI cables around = Picture still freezes

 

Turning off 'Instant On' = Picture still freezes

 

Changing my cable box to 720P output = Picture still freezes

 

Swearing at it = Picture still freezes

 

Just call Microsoft, it could be a lemon and you'll be covered under warranty.

Ok i have messed around with things and i still have the problem which makes watching TV unusable through the console, i haven't contacted MS yet as i wanted things to settle down first and give them a chance to fix this issue with a possible update.

 

Things i have tried:

 

Snapping an app while watching TV = picture still freezes

 

Swapping HDMI cables around = Picture still freezes

 

Turning off 'Instant On' = Picture still freezes

 

Changing my cable box to 720P output = Picture still freezes

 

Swearing at it = Picture still freezes

Go into your X1 settings and check to see if its properly seeing the make and model of your tv and cable box.

I know you mentioned that your box was outputting stereo audio, but can you actually control the audio format that the the box pushes out? If so, I would make sure the setting is anything but DTS/Dolby Digital. Then, on the X1, there is a setting we can check.

The reason I'm asking you this is because some people that have had issues with freezing here in the US have narrowed it down to:

1. not properly registering their tv/cable box/receiver within the X1

2. the X1 not liking the audio format that the device is sending to it (Dolby Digital mostly)

-there is a setting that is off by default to enable Dolby Digital surround support via the hdmi-in (using a driver that is in beta)

Go into your X1 settings and check to see if its properly seeing the make and model of your tv and cable box.

I know you mentioned that your box was outputting stereo audio, but can you actually control the audio format that the the box pushes out? If so, I would make sure the setting is anything but DTS/Dolby Digital. Then, on the X1, there is a setting we can check.

The reason I'm asking you this is because some people that have had issues with freezing here in the US have narrowed it down to:

1. not properly registering their tv/cable box/receiver within the X1

2. the X1 not liking the audio format that the device is sending to it (Dolby Digital mostly)

-there is a setting that is off by default to enable Dolby Digital surround support via the hdmi-in (using a driver that is in beta)

Already checked the TV is set right on the x1.

In the UK we don't gave an option to select which cable box yet so can't change anything there.

The sound is set correctly on my cable box as I only use normal stereo.

Not sure what else I can try, is there a hard reset option on the x1? Although I don't want to have to download everything again.

back in the day between NTSC and PAL you could make an arguement for 50hz. when we went to digital signals and HDTV it should have been standardized.

It's probably been answered already in this 9-page thread but the likely reason why is because all Europe's back content (that's sitting on tape and even the digital stuff from before HDMI was standardised) is at 50Hz. If they created an HDMI design that insisted on 60Hz, then all old content would have to be "converted" or "interpolated" which would have made it look less than optimal (although probably not much these days considering US-created footage looks fine on our 50Hz broadcasts (because they would have been converted already) but still...

The Xbox feature of "pass-through" wasn't really thought out well. If it was full-screen then it'd be fine because the Xbox could simply switch from 60Hz to 50Hz but because the entire console setup (games, UI, etc.) runs at 60Hz for all regions, having some sort of picture-in-picture pass-through feature means that the main UI will keep on running in 60Hz and the picture being passed through will have to be "converted" on-the-fly and it will look shoddy (remember this is a ?500 console, not a ?10,000+ industrial-standard Hz converter that they use in the media industry).

It's something typical for Microsoft. They offer all services in the US, some in the UK too and if you go anywhere else (like mainland Europe, Belgium, where I live) you just lose out. On everything. And they delay stuff, other stuff isn't available, badly localized, ... And that's every consumer-oriented Microsoft division that does this.

Canada here. Can also confirm losing out. Possibly not as much as Europe, but everyone is secondary to the U.S.

Already checked the TV is set right on the x1.

In the UK we don't gave an option to select which cable box yet so can't change anything there.

The sound is set correctly on my cable box as I only use normal stereo.

Not sure what else I can try, is there a hard reset option on the x1? Although I don't want to have to download everything again.

But does your cable box tell you how that stereo audio is being pushed out? Sometimes it will list the actual format (Dolby Digital, AC-3, MP3, etc)

If you go into the tv settings on the X1 and then troubleshooting, you will see an unchecked box next to Surround sound input support (beta). I don't think this will affect anything since your box is only pushing stereo, but check the box and try it again. If it doesn't help, uncheck that box again.

Also, check the X1 'Display' settings. See if its set to output at 24bits and not say 30 or 36 bits. Also, what audio and video (1080p or 720p) format is it set to for output? If you wanted to try something else, you could change your cable box to 720p and then also change the X1 output to 720p and see if the behavior changes.

There is a reset for the TV settings. Its located in the troubleshooting section of the TV & OneGuide menu. You could try this as a last resort. You can also do a factory reset of the entire system under the 'System' menu in settings, although I don't think doing that is worth it.

We are definitely in long shot territory here, but these are possible causes of freezing video.

Canada here. Can also confirm losing out. Possibly not as much as Europe, but everyone is secondary to the U.S.

 

In Norway we have 1 terrestrial provider, 2 major satellite providers and 2 or 3 major cable providers, one of which provides content and tuners for locally owned cable networks. I'm not sure if there's one or two fiber tv providers. (well some of the cable providers also provide over hybrid fiber but that's not exactly the same).

 

this could probably be somewhat manageable. BUT all of these are more or less exclusive to Norway, the swedes right next to us, have the same amount, and a few more unique providers of their own, they even have multiple terrestrial providers I believe. 

 

So where as the US has a few cable providers, probably one terrestrial and I dunno hw many satellite providers. Europe has at least 5+ providers for each country, all unique to the country. That's an order of magnitude more providers and, in this case more importantly, tv boxes than the US. This is also why digital music and movie services and streaming services are so hard here. hundreds of companies already have and buy exclusive licenses in every little country. 

But does your cable box tell you how that stereo audio is being pushed out? Sometimes it will list the actual format (Dolby Digital, AC-3, MP3, etc)

If you go into the tv settings on the X1 and then troubleshooting, you will see an unchecked box next to Surround sound input support (beta). I don't think this will affect anything since your box is only pushing stereo, but check the box and try it again. If it doesn't help, uncheck that box again.

Also, check the X1 'Display' settings. See if its set to output at 24bits and not say 30 or 36 bits. Also, what audio and video (1080p or 720p) format is it set to for output? If you wanted to try something else, you could change your cable box to 720p and then also change the X1 output to 720p and see if the behavior changes.

There is a reset for the TV settings. Its located in the troubleshooting section of the TV & OneGuide menu. You could try this as a last resort. You can also do a factory reset of the entire system under the 'System' menu in settings, although I don't think doing that is worth it.

We are definitely in long shot territory here, but these are possible causes of freezing video.

There isn't anything telling me what the sound is on my cable box other than a box to select if I had a separate sound system which I don't.

I will test the beta sound idea tomorrow.

I have previously checked and tested all your other suggestions, thanks for finding the time to come up with ideas though.

There isn't anything telling me what the sound is on my cable box other than a box to select if I had a separate sound system which I don't.

I will test the beta sound idea tomorrow.

I have previously checked and tested all your other suggestions, thanks for finding the time to come up with ideas though.

Alright, no problem, just seeing what might be helpful.

so you already tried setting your cable box to 720 AND setting your X1 to 720 output?

Alright, no problem, just seeing what might be helpful.

so you already tried setting your cable box to 720 AND setting your X1 to 720 output?

Yes already tried that, tomorrow i will have another go with that beta idea and also i may turn 'auto film 1' mode back on and see what happens, then i will give up but keep a look out for news on this issue, then i can decide when to contact MS as i fear if i do it too soon i will be given the cold shoulder......ie TV is not supported in Europe at launch.

Disclaimer: I'm an Xbox Elite Team member for Microsoft Belgium, but I'm not blindly defending the Xbox One, but just explaining what's going on, and what to expect going forward. 

 

It's pretty bad you have to qualify this..

 

People have their pitch forks out for MS on this one..

Yes already tried that, tomorrow i will have another go with that beta idea and also i may turn 'auto film 1' mode back on and see what happens, then i will give up but keep a look out for news on this issue, then i can decide when to contact MS as i fear if i do it too soon i will be given the cold shoulder......ie TV is not supported in Europe at launch.

That sounds like a good plan.

Now just so I'm clear, when this whole thing started, didn't you say that the freezing issue was much less pronounced? If so, do you remember when it got worse?

That sounds like a good plan.

Now just so I'm clear, when this whole thing started, didn't you say that the freezing issue was much less pronounced? If so, do you remember when it got worse?

Yes it was very watchable over the weekend and got far far worse yesterday and today..........very strange.

 

Anyway Eurogamer have picked up on the judder issue now too which i am thinking is still my problem although it is affecting me worse for some reason.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-25-xbox-one-tv-integration-suffers-noticeable-judder-in-uk

Yes it was very watchable over the weekend and got far far worse yesterday and today..........very strange.

 

Anyway Eurogamer have picked up on the judder issue now too which i am thinking is still my problem although it is affecting me worse for some reason.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-25-xbox-one-tv-integration-suffers-noticeable-judder-in-uk

That's the part that puzzles me.

How in the world does it get worse? Its a constant thing, either its always bad or not at all. The fact that it got progressively worse makes me think this is not just an issue of 50hz vs 60hz. We are missing a variable I think.

Plus, you said the judder issue is gone for you, only the freezing issue remains. Strange stuff. I'm interested in hearing back from MikeChipshop since he has seen with his own eyes, a setup using a new Sky Box that has no visible judder and no freezing. That could provide us with some answers.

Yes the judder went when i turned off Auto Film 1 in my Sony TV settings, so i am still scratching my head, but in alot of threads people say they're suffering from both.

Very strange.

I know you said you didn't want to contact MS yet, but I really don't see the harm in it. They need to hear from anyone directly affected and I think the more report it, the quicker MS will respond.

You can also contact them again later if needed. I just think you should contact MS through multiple channels and get some info from them.

 

 

Xbone that sold to non-U.S/japs should've sticker saying that non-U.S consumer must use the xbone device with a U.S compliant TV.

Dude, at least get your silly jokes right: U.S. compliant cable box, not TV :laugh:

There isn't anything telling me what the sound is on my cable box other than a box to select if I had a separate sound system which I don't.

I will test the beta sound idea tomorrow.

I have previously checked and tested all your other suggestions, thanks for finding the time to come up with ideas though.

Well this is very strange, I just thought I would plug the cable box in through the x1 just to see how bad it is as I go to bed and the damn thing seems to work perfectly! And I haven't changed any settings!?!?

I have even tried turn everything off again and on in different orders and not once has it frozen, not sure what to make of this but will report back tomorrow evening if it still hasn't gone ###### up again!

Well this is very strange, I just thought I would plug the cable box in through the x1 just to see how bad it is as I go to bed and the damn thing seems to work perfectly! And I haven't changed any settings!?!?

I have even tried turn everything off again and on in different orders and not once has it frozen, not sure what to make of this but will report back tomorrow evening if it still hasn't gone ###### up again!

:s  ok that is weird.

 

This is not a 50hz vs 60hz issue.  You would not be getting this behavior if that was the problem.

 

It would be awesome if it just worked now.  Then maybe you can retrace your steps to figure out if anything you did fixed it.

 

I will note that people that were running into the occasional freezing issue when plugging in a pc to use media center on the X1 found that simply unplugging and replugging the hdmi cable would fix the problem.  If it turns out to be the fix for you as well, this points to an hdmi handshake or hdcp issue, not a refresh rate issue.

:s ok that is weird.

This is not a 50hz vs 60hz issue. You would not be getting this behavior if that was the problem.

It would be awesome if it just worked now. Then maybe you can retrace your steps to figure out if anything you did fixed it.

I will note that people that were running into the occasional freezing issue when plugging in a pc to use media center on the X1 found that simply unplugging and replugging the hdmi cable would fix the problem. If it turns out to be the fix for you as well, this points to an hdmi handshake or hdcp issue, not a refresh rate issue.

All I did was take the cable box HDMI lead from the back of the TV and plugged it into the Xbox HDMI in, then said Xbox on, then when that was fully on switched the cable box on, normally I always got a freeze in the first second but I never got it this time. I have tried to break it all again by switching things off in different orders but it won't break, I don't plan on pulling the HDMI cable though.

Will report back tomorrow, maybe my house heating was making it freeze as it is cold now! Lol

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • For some reason I suddenly have the urge to go shopping at Sears.
    • So I did a quick test based on 3+ different public instances from the litany at searx.space ... and it spins everything rather differently. It seems that SearXNG is a meta-search engine (queries multiple search indexes rather than only Google's or Bing's or Wikipedia's or Reddit's) that operates in two modes: > public instances ... each instance opens itself to outside users who piggyback on its cached search history; this instance's own identity becomes known/tracked but end-users are hidden similar to an anonymization proxy; this instance's querying of major search indexes may be API based [rated limited, blocked, etc.]). > private instances ... your private install/instance that itself queries multiple (configurable) search indexes of crawled web content; every major Search Engine associates all traffic to your private instance (so your traffic is tracked via network usages) but client-side tracking (your own browser/computer specs) is flushed because it's a "server" doing the querying rather than your browser. My test asked the same 1 question to the 3+ engines and they all returned vastly different results: some had CAPTCHA failures against Google, some had failures against Wikipedia, and the actual results were also different -- some had auto-complete enabled, others returned a wikipedia highlighted excerpt despite the Wikipedia failure (hinting at results being cached from previous keyword matching), and others just gave an Are-You-Human non-CAPTCHA loop before returning random results. So this begs the caveat: Search query results will vary based on which instance is used because every instance queries the other search indexes separate (and thus its results are influenced on that instance's aggregate search history and index-access limitations). The major distinctions for SearXNG versus DDG or Brave: > The search UI is 'untracked' since no UI trackers are baked-in which would phone home or lay cookies into your browser (for DDG/Brave usage stats), > There is no 'crawler' that canvasses the Internet to discover fresh content (it leaves that to the major search indexes), > Queries multiple search indexes ("meta-search engine") based on the configurations and usage history of the server instance, > Privacy-friendly due to its ability to shield user tracking via standing up a non-local server instance connectable to major VPN providers: queries would all appear to come from general VPN/Proxy providers rather than your private instance (whether installed locally or on your own VPS in the cloud). PS: I've previously come across specialized search engines of this nature that indexes searches across media assets like YT, OF, etc. SearXNG seems to be a good backbone...if the rate-limiting/captcha/etc. issues were resolved.
    • For a guy who claims to hate Farage and the ignorant, gullible, rightwing racist skinheads sponsored by Putin that his lies represent, you sure are quoting them time and time and time again, mate. I guess you're conveniently ignoring the fact that your country and commonwealth just happened to work much better when it was still part of the E.U.? Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
    • Do you live in the U.K? Do any of the people here that are against the UK leaving the E.U, live in the U.K? If not then why are you bothered? If you do live here then it is a different thing . Brexit was a good idea, should have done it years before, it was done badly, but the idea was good. You are saying the same thing as remainers do, oh we did what Putin wanted, we listened to the lies and Farage. I hate Farage and never believed most of what he said, certainly did not believe the £350m a week for the NHS. But we did pay a lot of money to the E.U and yes some of it came back, but what is the point of paying it out for only some of it to come back? Get out of the E.U, no money to them and in theory we can use the money to do things in the country. I said in theory, but our governments are a total and complete waste of space. No matter what colour rosette they wear. You and others say it was a mistake and yet the two main parties in the U.K are not looking at rejoining the EU, I wonder why that is? I was not tricked by anyone. Makes no odds now, we are out and have been for 10 years, what we need is a decent government to run the country. All they do is shout at each other like a load of kids and seems to do nothing and make this country more into a police and nanny state. Getting more like China all the time.
    • 4TB TEAMGROUP MP44Q, 2TB T-Force G50, and 2TB WD My Passport SSDs drop to great prices by Fiza Ali Prime Day may be over, but there are still worthwhile storage deals available, including discounts on SSDs for shoppers who missed the event or are looking to upgrade their storage solution. Particularly, 2TB Western Digital My Passport, 2TB TEAMGROUP T-Force G50, and 4TB TEAMGROUP MP44Q SSD are selling at great prices with up to 23% off. The 2TB TEAMGROUP T-Force G50 is an M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0 x4 NVMe SSD with sequential read speeds of up to 5,000MB/s and sequential write speeds of up to 4,500MB/s. The drive has an endurance rating of 1,300 TBW (terabytes written) and features a DRAM-less design. The company specifies a mean time between failures (MTBF) of 3 million hours. The drive includes an "ultra-thin" graphene heat spreader that helps dissipate heat without significantly increasing the drive's thickness. It also supports S.M.A.R.T. monitoring, allowing compatible software to monitor drive health and operating status. The SSD is rated for operating temperatures from 0°C to 70°C, with a storage temperature range of -40°C to 85°C. The drive is backed by a five-year limited warranty as well. 2TB TEAMGROUP T-Force G50 SSD: $269.99 (Amazon US) The TEAMGROUP MP44Q is an M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0 x4 NVMe SSD that delivers sequential read speeds of up to 7,000MB/s and sequential write speeds of up to 5,900MB/s. It uses 3D QLC NAND flash memory to provide 4TB of storage capacity for games, applications, media files, and other data. The drive has an endurance rating of 2,000 TBW and an MTBF of 1.6 million hours. The SSD features a DRAM-less design and supports TEAMGROUP's S.M.A.R.T. monitoring software, allowing users to monitor drive health, temperature, and remaining lifespan. For thermal management, the MP44Q also includes an "ultra-thin" graphene heat spreader. It is designed to operate at temperatures between 0°C and 70°C and can be stored at temperatures ranging from -40°C to 85°C. The SSD is also backed by a five-year limited warranty. 4TB TEAMGROUP MP44Q SSD: $478.99 (Amazon US) The 2TB WD My Passport SSD connects via a USB-C port using the USB 3.2 Gen 2 interface. It delivers sequential read speeds of up to 1,050MB/s and sequential write speeds of up to 1,000MB/s through NVMe technology. In terms of security features, the drive includes password protection with 256-bit AES hardware encryption. The SSD is also designed to resist shock and vibration and is rated to withstand drops from heights of up to 6.5 feet. The recommended operating temperature range is 5°C to 35°C, while the non-operating temperature range is -20°C to 65°C. This drive is also backed by a five-year limited warranty. 2TB Western Digital My Passport SSD: $279.99 (Amazon US) Good to know This Amazon deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Woland13 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Woland13 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      492
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      225
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      147
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      75
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      71
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!