Xbox One 50Hz TV signal judder explained

[George P Global Moderator]

Seeing as how the OP just said his fixed itself, which is odd, then it's not a refresh rate issue but something else. 

[Brandon H Supervisor]

That seems like a pretty basic thing to overlook.  Wonder why they didn't realize they needed to account for different refresh rates.

they did, which is why MS has been saying that the TV functions are not fully supported in the EU yet

they're still working on a way around the issue

[SnoopZ]

Just letting you guys know everything is still working OK here, I won't be messing with cables anytime soon in case that was the cause.

Still have the panning judder problem though but that goes with 'auto film 1' turned off in my TV settings.

[JonnyLH]

They must of caught this idea through testing and even early on in development, I don't even understand how we could be in this situation with this. What even?

[trooper11]

Just letting you guys know everything is still working OK here, I won't be messing with cables anytime soon in case that was the cause.

Still have the panning judder problem though but that goes with 'auto film 1' turned off in my TV settings.

That's great, so with the auto film setting off, everything seems to be working normal.

So now I'm wondering if this is the same issue effecting the others and if a similar 'fix' would take of the problem. You mentioned you had friends with the same problem. Maybe they can replicate what you did.

[SnoopZ]

That's great, so with the auto film setting off, everything seems to be working normal.

So now I'm wondering if this is the same issue effecting the others and if a similar 'fix' would take of the problem. You mentioned you had friends with the same problem. Maybe they can replicate what you did.

Just people on another site, so I have asked the question.

[trooper11]

Just people on another site, so I have asked the question.

Ah ok, well definitely keep us informed if others get the problem fixed as it goes along.

I hope we get a statement from MS at some point with an explanation for what might be happening.

[Squirrelington]

 

On screen video refers to the Live TV feature.

 

tl;dr it isnt the TV's fault, the XBox One should be handling cases when the live tv input signal rates differ from the XBox One's output rate.

[HawkMan]

And again, it's a fairly simple firmware(relatively speaking) to make the xbox operate at 50 hz output when a 50hz device is plugged into the hdmi in. 

 

and this is probably what will happen when they add proper "euro support" in a future patch. 

[SnoopZ]

Possible work around discovered, although may not be ideal, i won't try it seeing that everything seems fine here.

 

 

UPDATE: There's a potential workaround for the Xbox One TV integration judder issue.

HDTVTest, which spotted the problem with UK Xbox One's earlier this week, disovered a way to force the Xbox One to output a 50Hz signal - matching the TV signal pumped into the console through the HDMI-in port.

As the site explains, to do this you need to set your Xbox One to auto-detect HDMI from within the display settings, then toggle the resolution from 1080p to 720p or vice versa. This triggers a prompt asking if you'd like to keep the new resolution. Select no.

Apparently this tricks the Xbox One into thinking your TV isn't compatible with a 60Hz signal and forces a 50Hz output.

Unfortunately, this workaround isn't ideal. It makes everything 50Hz, including video games. So there may be stutter when playing games. You can of course manually switch back to 60Hz to play games.

Microsoft is yet to comment on the issue.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-25-xbox-one-tv-integration-suffers-noticeable-judder-in-uk

[trooper11]

Well that's something anyway. At least until MS get a proper fix out.

At least your not having any issues at the moment.

[SnoopZ]

Just letting you guys know everything is still working OK here, I won't be messing with cables anytime soon in case that was the cause.

Still have the panning judder problem though but that goes with 'auto film 1' turned off in my TV settings.

Well it took 11 days but the problem has now returned, i will connect it back up the normal way without the TV feature and sometime next year contact MS to get it sorted if they can as i can't be arsed with all the hassle at this time of year.

 

edit

 

I seem to have cured it for now by doing a hard reboot (holding down the power button on the box for 10 seconds), lets see how long it lasts before it goes ###### up again.

[vcfan]

Unfortunately, this workaround isn't ideal. It makes everything 50Hz, including video games. So there may be stutter when playing games. You can of course manually switch back to 60Hz to play games.

Microsoft is yet to comment on the issue.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-25-xbox-one-tv-integration-suffers-noticeable-judder-in-uk

a verified developer on the xbox one team did actually comment on reddit. he said some people are having issues,and they've dispatched engineers to peoples homes to try to determine the root cause.

[trooper11]

a verified developer on the xbox one team did actually comment on reddit. he said some people are having issues,and they've dispatched engineers to peoples homes to try to determine the root cause.

 

 

Hmm, that would seem to indicate that they did not anticipate this issue, as in they expected the system to handle 50hz content just fine. 

 

The best case scenario here is that its a product of the X1 not working properly with some boxes and that they can patch it for those boxes.

 

Hopefully we get some more info soon.

[SnoopZ]

Doing a hard reboot seems to fix the issue though, do you think it is the same problem as the 50Hz issue?

[trooper11]

Well it took 11 days but the problem has now returned, i will connect it back up the normal way without the TV feature and sometime next year contact MS to get it sorted if they can as i can't be arsed with all the hassle at this time of year.

 

edit

 

I seem to have cured it for now by doing a hard reboot (holding down the power button on the box for 10 seconds), lets see how long it lasts before it goes ###### up again.

 

 

When the problem showed up again, was this after it had been powered down?  As in, did you turn it on for the first time that day and see the problem was back?  Or did it return while watching content?

[George P Global Moderator]

Hmm, that would seem to indicate that they did not anticipate this issue, as in they expected the system to handle 50hz content just fine. 

 

The best case scenario here is that its a product of the X1 not working properly with some boxes and that they can patch it for those boxes.

 

Hopefully we get some more info soon.

If it was something simple I think they would have said so by now yet there hasn't been a official statement on this from MS yet as far as I know. It might be more complex than some think, I honestly doubt they didn't test for 50hz TV signals.

[trooper11]

Doing a hard reboot seems to fix the issue though, do you think it is the same problem as the 50Hz issue?

 

I'm not sure, but if you are having the same issue, then your symptoms seem to indicate a problem with the hdmi handshake/hdcp/edid process between the X1 and your box or maybe the tv. 

 

The reason I say that is because I have had issues in the past when running hdmi to my tv where a device would lose 'sync' with the tv, leading to things like an improper resolution or audio drop outs. It would happen most often when my device was powered down to a low power state, but not off (i.e. a standby mode), but rarely it would drop while I was using it as well.  The solution at the time was to restart the device, forcing it to perform another hdmi handshake and properly sync with the TV.  Eventually, an update for the device came down and the problem just went away.

 

This has also happened with my htpc that is hooked up to me TV.  It still has a problem where sometimes, after going into standby, it will wake up and lose sync with the TV, dropping audio or displaying an odd resolution.  Again, my only choice to fix it is to reboot the pc and let the two resync. To ultimately fix this problem, a new video card driver would need to be released that added proper support for my TV/receiver.

 

Basically, at least in your case, it sounds like the X1 'forgets' what model of device it is plugged into and so it introduces incorrect settings for the display. 

 

Didn't you say that you had the hdmi cable that came with your X1 going between the cable box and the X1?

 

 

 

 

 

If it was something simple I think they would have said so by now yet there hasn't been a official statement on this from MS yet as far as I know. It might be more complex than some think, I honestly doubt they didn't test for 50hz TV signals.

 

 

That's why I think its an issue specific to each cable box out there.  Some could be sensitive to an issue that others or not, or it could be that MS needs to tweak the way the hdmi handshake occurs for specific cable box models to avoid it.

[SnoopZ]

When the problem showed up again, was this after it had been powered down?  As in, did you turn it on for the first time that day and see the problem was back?  Or did it return while watching content?

I got up in the morning turned on the TV, cable box and then told the Xbox to turn on and everything was just fine, a few hours later i went outside so turned the TV off, when i turned it back on again the picture was freezing, i may have turned the cable box off too.

 

Holding the power button down for 10 seconds on the Xbox  instantly cured the problem.

[SnoopZ]

I'm not sure, but if you are having the same issue, then your symptoms seem to indicate a problem with the hdmi handshake/hdcp/edid process between the X1 and your box or maybe the tv. 

 

The reason I say that is because I have had issues in the past when running hdmi to my tv where a device would lose 'sync' with the tv, leading to things like an improper resolution or audio drop outs. It would happen most often when my device was powered down to a low power state, but not off (i.e. a standby mode), but rarely it would drop while I was using it as well.  The solution at the time was to restart the device, forcing it to perform another hdmi handshake and properly sync with the TV.  Eventually, an update for the device came down and the problem just went away.

 

This has also happened with my htpc that is hooked up to me TV.  It still has a problem where sometimes, after going into standby, it will wake up and lose sync with the TV, dropping audio or displaying an odd resolution.  Again, my only choice to fix it is to reboot the pc and let the two resync. To ultimately fix this problem, a new video card driver would need to be released that added proper support for my TV/receiver.

 

Basically, at least in your case, it sounds like the X1 'forgets' what model of device it is plugged into and so it introduces incorrect settings for the display. 

 

Didn't you say that you had the hdmi cable that came with your X1 going between the cable box and the X1?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why I think its an issue specific to each cable box out there.  Some could be sensitive to an issue that others or not, or it could be that MS needs to tweak the way the hdmi handshake occurs for specific cable box models to avoid it.

Living in the UK we never get an option to tell it what Cable box we have as all we can do is use the pass through. :)

[trooper11]

Living in the UK we never get an option to tell it what Cable box we have as all we can do is use the pass through. :)

 

 

Right, but the X1 is still having to communicate with your box and tv in order to accept the proper signal from your box and send the right signal to your TV.  That's just how hdmi works. 

 

So even if you cannot manually tell it what device you have, it does do a check against the device.

 

I can't think of any other reason why a complete shut down of the X1 would fix it unless it was in fact a problem with this hdmi 'check' process.

 

Since it happened after your tv and cable box were turned off, but not the X1, that makes it sound even more like that is the problem.  I wonder if it would come back if you repeated the situation.  If you leave the X1 running, but just turn off the TV, or just turn off the cable box, or turned off both.  That would be even more evidence that the X1 is not resyncing with the cable box or tv properly when they turn back on.  Then you can see if it happens if you turn all 3 off and then back on.  My bet is that the problem does not occur when you do that.

[SnoopZ]

Right, but the X1 is still having to communicate with your box and tv in order to accept the proper signal from your box and send the right signal to your TV.  That's just how hdmi works. 

 

So even if you cannot manually tell it what device you have, it does do a check against the device.

 

I can't think of any other reason why a complete shut down of the X1 would fix it unless it was in fact a problem with this hdmi 'check' process.

 

Since it happened after your tv and cable box were turned off, but not the X1, that makes it sound even more like that is the problem.  I wonder if it would come back if you repeated the situation.  If you leave the X1 running, but just turn off the TV, or just turn off the cable box, or turned off both.  That would be even more evidence that the X1 is not resyncing with the cable box or tv properly when they turn back on.  Then you can see if it happens if you turn all 3 off and then back on.  My bet is that the problem does not occur when you do that.

I just turned the TV and cable box off for a few minutes leaving the Xbox on and it still all worked when i switched it back on, however last time i left the TV and cable box off for a few hours, so a longer period of time may show the issue.

[trooper11]

I just turned the TV and cable box off for a few minutes leaving the Xbox on and it still all worked when i switched it back on, however last time i left the TV and cable box off for a few hours, so a longer period of time may show the issue.

 

 

Your right, unfortunately the type of issue I'm talking about is not often immediately reproducible.  It can seem very random in nature. 

 

All of these devices constantly do this hdmi 'check', so it could only be failing the check every so often. 

 

When you said you left the X1 on the last time, was the X1 actually still 'on' when you came back to it, or was it in standby?  I mean, when you turned on your tv, were you looking at the X1 dash, or did you first have to hit a power button on it?

 

Also, have you adjusted the X1 power settings at all?  I think by default, it is set to turn itself off after an hour or two of inactivity.  I currently have mine set to never shut off like that.

[SnoopZ]

Yes it went to the X1 dashboard when i turned it all on OR full screen TV i can't remember but the X1 was on fully as i have it set to turn off after 6hrs.

[neo158]

i also don't see why microsoft would bend over backwards to satisfy the european market. the eu has won no friends at microsoft.

 

You just have to look at EU vs US market share of Windows Phones to see that you are dead wrong. Also explain to me why Windows Phone originally launched in the UK then?

 

You seem to have a lot of hate toward Europe!!