Analyst Says Windows 8 should be free to existing Windows users

[MorganX]

Its a nice thought, but lets face it, even if the made that exact phone, it wouldn't change anything.

As far as the value of discussing these things, I agree when its done fairly, but there is always a point when you have exhausted the same old ideas or arguments and all your left with is back and forth bs.

I've just seen to many of these threads. It gets a bit depressing after a time.

 

The phones they're making now aren't changing anything. Sometimes you innovate and create, to change perception of you and your products. You must think different when appealing to consumers, en masse at that.

[trooper11]

The phones they're making now aren't changing anything. Sometimes you innovate and create, to change perception of you and your products. You must think different when appealing to consumers, en masse at that.

What about the design of the phone you posted is so innovative?

I'm sorry, but even with nice phones, it wont change much. There is just too much momentum riding against the platform, too much push back.

[MorganX]

What about the design of the phone you posted is so innovative?

I'm sorry, but even with nice phones, it wont change much. There is just too much momentum riding against the platform, too much push back.

 

It's a Windows phone that just on its face is cooler than the iPhone and regardless of too many other things, I'd buy it on sight. I have 2 Lumias, 1 Titan, and an 8X in my desk drawer collecting dust. That's what.

 

Regarding market momentum and push back, the only momentum and push back is against Windows Phone because they just don't have a device and ecosystem consumers want. And with a continued bland boring approach, they never will. If MS continues as they are, and releases the next Nokia "boring number" phone, you are right, MS has no chance of being relevant here.

[trooper11]

It's a Windows phone that just on its face is cooler than the iPhone and regardless of too many other things, I'd buy it on sight. I have 2 Lumias, 1 Titan, and an 8X in my desk drawer collecting dust. That's what.

 

Regarding market momentum and push back, the only momentum and push back is against Windows Phone because they just don't have a device and ecosystem consumers want. And with a continued bland boring approach, they never will. If MS continues as they are, and releases the next Nokia "boring number" phone, you are right, MS has no chance of being relevant here.

I really don't get your point. There have been slick Nokia phones, I'm not seeing how the photo you shared is any less 'boring' then any other phone released to this point. Its a 'boring' squared off design much like the Lumia 928. If its meant to mimic the Surface design, well I've heard it called 'boring' as well.

If the problem is the numbers, then drop the numbers from the models.

If YOU like the design then that's great, but I don't see how its something that would alter the opinion of others.

[Growled Member]

Analyst need to just not speak anymore

 

Especially this one. Obviously he has never owned a business. 

[MorganX]

I really don't get your point. There have been slick Nokia phones, I'm not seeing how the photo you shared is any less 'boring' then any other phone released to this point. Its a 'boring' squared off design much like the Lumia 928. If its meant to mimic the Surface design, well I've heard it called 'boring' as well.

If the problem is the numbers, then drop the numbers from the models.

If YOU like the design then that's great, but I don't see how its something that would alter the opinion of others.

 

Same thing said about iPhone, and Galaxy. Nokia never been slick or cool, they have nice apps. The market bears this out with regards to Windows Phones. We just disagree. I predict no nokia phone following the current design and case principles will change things. Let's revisit, 6 months from now.

 

In the meantime, if HTC ever releases the Harmony, I'll buy that. But they've more or less given up on Windows Phone.

 

Edit: The look and form factor of the Surface Tablet is about the only thing selling it right now.

[trooper11]

Same thing said about iPhone, and Galaxy. Nokia never been slick or cool, they have nice apps. The market bears this out with regards to Windows Phones. We just disagree. I predict no nokia phone following the current design and case principles will change things. Let's revisit, 6 months from now.

 

In the meantime, if HTC ever releases the Harmony, I'll buy that. But they've more or less given up on Windows Phone.

 

Edit: The look and form factor of the Surface Tablet is about the only thing selling it right now.

Well heck, if you feel like a surface designed phone would change all those fortunes around, then I hope your right.

Something tells me that even with that change, it wont matter, it will still be rejected by most in favor of Apple or Samsung, but I would much prefer your version of it.

[Growled Member]

Something tells me that even with that change, it wont matter, it will still be rejected by most in favor of Apple or Samsung, but I would much prefer your version of it.

 

Nothing that Microsoft has put out with live tiles has been a hit (so far anyway). MS needs to sit down and figure out what's wrong and fix it. Personally I think people prefer the icons and widgets that Apple and Samsung offer, rather than any hardware reasons.

[Dot Matrix]

Edit: The look and form factor of the Surface Tablet is about the only thing selling it right now.

Really? I bought mine for the functionality.

[patseguin Global Moderator]

Using Windows 8.1 on my home workstation/game machine and work laptop. Not even looking back and don't miss Win7 one bit.

Same here

[trooper11]

Nothing that Microsoft has put out with live tiles has been a hit (so far anyway). MS needs to sit down and figure out what's wrong and fix it. Personally I think people prefer the icons and widgets that Apple and Samsung offer, rather than any hardware reasons.

That is the key. If people demand icons and widgets, then there is no place for an alternative such as WP's tiles.

I just don't know if enough are willing to give it a try. It doesn't matter how I personally feel about the UI, but it matters what the perception is among most buyers.

[Dot Matrix]

Nothing that Microsoft has put out with live tiles has been a hit (so far anyway). MS needs to sit down and figure out what's wrong and fix it. Personally I think people prefer the icons and widgets that Apple and Samsung offer, rather than any hardware reasons.

XBox? Windows Phone is also gaining traction with plenty of people, as well. The metro concept is still relatively new, and Microsoft only recently expanded it to include Windows. Windows 8.1 was a big leap forward, and if rumors are to be believed, Windows "Threshold" will be anothe big leap forward for the Metro design.

If you ask me adaptive and dynamic UIs (like Metro) are the future in UI design. The dull, static "workstation" UIs of computing's past are done with, and it'll take time to transition, but mobile is leading that push. Time to make the intuitive leap to other areas of computing, such as the desktop PC.

[ThaCrip]

I still won't upgrade even if it is free.

 

that's the bottom line right there ;)

 

i got a hold of the RTM a while back and used it a bit in a virtual machine but it's interface is a big turn off (everything just seems like a chore to do vs Windows7) as it's not really setup to really use the PC as it's basically made for a tablet. hopefully MS learns their lesson and gets Windows 9 done properly as drastic changes to the interface is a bad idea when it comes to a PC or Laptop. they need Windows 9 to default to the regular Windows 7 like interface when using a PC/Laptop but if you use it on more of a tablet thing then it's current interface would be fine.

[PGHammer]

that's the bottom line right there ;)

 

i got a hold of the RTM a while back and used it a bit in a virtual machine but it's interface is a big turn off (everything just seems like a chore to do vs Windows7) as it's not really setup to really use the PC as it's basically made for a tablet. hopefully MS learns their lesson and gets Windows 9 done properly as drastic changes to the interface is a bad idea when it comes to a PC or Laptop. they need Windows 9 to default to the regular Windows 7 like interface when using a PC/Laptop but if you use it on more of a tablet thing then it's current interface would be fine.

And that's where all the pushback has come in; it's a comment I made way back during the Developer Preview of Windows 8 itself.  The Start menu got into people's way of doing things, and it had been there for seventeen years (1995-2012).  Never mind that the change is necessary for new form-factors where that pointing-device-centric UX doesn't fit - never mind that applications generally don't even care.  In fact, never mind that even pointing devices still work.  It's a big change, and the change-averse are busting a gut over it, egged on by the change-hostile.  And the "tablet thing" comment is meant to be a dismissive comment - basically an implication that you can't use the UI on a traditional formfactor computer.  It's CLI vs. GUI all over again (back before Windows).

 

It's not even Windows alone that has such an aversion - have any of you taken a look at the discussions in the SteamOS-related groups all over the Internet (not just at Valve).  The hate over GNOME3 is that bad - primarily because it's NOT pointing-device-centric.  Never mind that even the critics admit that GNOME3 is a better fit for a ten-foot UX than GNOME Classic (or most other DEs out there) - they still have a decided loathing for GNOME 3.

 

If you put something similar to the old-style Start menu back, you'll wind up with a far LESS consistent UX than was the case with Windows 8 - basically, making a bad situation worse.  Why is that worth it?

 

Will we need to get out the shears?

[HawkMan]

Long rant about Windows licensing fees, be warned.

Licensing fees is one of the reasons I and many others choose to use Linux. Unless you have a specific requirement that can only be filled by Windows, a lot of admins benefit from it because it's open source, and it's free so they don't have to worry about paying exorbitant licensing fees if they want to legally put a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate on a whopping TWO of their computers.

I demanded and received a refund from Microsoft one time. I went to Best Buy and bought a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate for right around $300. I had bought Windows XP before, and in doing so I was allowed to install that copy on 3 computers; it said so on the box, so I assumed the same was true of Windows 7. I got it home, installed it, activated it, then tried to do the same thing for my wife's laptop, and got a message telling me it had already been used. Rather than pay another $300, and because of some compatability issues I had on the one machine that did end up receiving Windows 7, I nuked it, replaced it with Ubuntu, and followed the procedures indicated on the website for returning a product. I will give Microsoft kudos for actually issuing me the refund, including sales tax, and the reps were very polite, but their licensing fees are a bad business practice that keeps people like myself from getting involved with their products.

I even converted a number of people, average users, to Linux for that reason. I used to work on personal computers on the side when I was an IT Specialist in the Army. 90% of the time, if it required an OS re-install, there would be a restore partition or the customer would have the restore discs. Sometimes however, the hard drive would have failed and the warranty will have expired, requiring them to pay for restore discs to be mailed, or a previous "friend who knows a lot about computers" will have installed a pirated copy of Windows that had been FUBAR'd, meaning no restore discs except another copy of Windows for a clean install, and I don't do piracy, I figure if it's good enough for me to choose, it's good enough to pay for. Most of those people, when they heard how much they'd have to pay, opted to have Linux installed because the majority of them didn't do anything that couldn't be done using Linux, LibreOffice, and Firefox.

Why do you think you need ultimate ?

[HawkMan]

that's the bottom line right there ;)

 

i got a hold of the RTM a while back and used it a bit in a virtual machine but it's interface is a big turn off (everything just seems like a chore to do vs Windows7) as it's not really setup to really use the PC as it's basically made for a tablet. hopefully MS learns their lesson and gets Windows 9 done properly as drastic changes to the interface is a bad idea when it comes to a PC or Laptop. they need Windows 9 to default to the regular Windows 7 like interface when using a PC/Laptop but if you use it on more of a tablet thing then it's current interface would be fine.

You sound like someone who had already decided it was bad before using it. No metro start screen isn't hard, slower or more complicated to use than the start menu, it isn't made only for touch, and it works just as fast and good as the start menu, sometimes even better. And it's not made for touch, it's made for both, in fact several things work better with a mouse than touch.

[+Red King Subscriber²]

XBox? Windows Phone is also gaining traction with plenty of people, as well. The metro concept is still relatively new, and Microsoft only recently expanded it to include Windows. Windows 8.1 was a big leap forward, and if rumors are to be believed, Windows "Threshold" will be anothe big leap forward for the Metro design.

If you ask me adaptive and dynamic UIs (like Metro) are the future in UI design. The dull, static "workstation" UIs of computing's past are done with, and it'll take time to transition, but mobile is leading that push. Time to make the intuitive leap to other areas of computing, such as the desktop PC.

The Modern UI is one of the primary reasons I bought Nokia and Surface. Satisfaction: 100%

I have been very impressed how the modern UI design philosophy does not incorporate useless "noise" - it is clean and straight to the point. I look at other devices and I see it too, needless visual complexity and reduced ease of use.

[medhunter]

8.1 is free to users of 8.  OSX is available "free" on Macs much like Windows is available for free on new PCs.  If you bought a PC with Windows 8 the upgrade to 8.1 is free, just like if you bought a Mac with Mountain Lion the upgrade to Mavericks is free.

 

8.1 was a must for windows 8.Nothing super fancy indeed.

[ThaCrip]

You sound like someone who had already decided it was bad before using it. No metro start screen isn't hard, slower or more complicated to use than the start menu, it isn't made only for touch, and it works just as fast and good as the start menu, sometimes even better. And it's not made for touch, it's made for both, in fact several things work better with a mouse than touch.

 

trust me, i don't dis something just because everyone else does. but anyways... apparently many disagree with that quote including myself. everything is just changed too much from what people are used to as it just feels like a chore to use it as we are just to used to doing things a certain way and with Win8 it's all removed basically. but you got to admit Win8's initial interface is clearly more suited for a touch screen than for general PC users who like to use the PC (especially for those of us used to using their PC's a certain way) as it's over simplified full screen etc which is basically more suited for tablets than a real PC. there is a reason why many people don't like Windows8 and i think a lot of it is due to it's interface.

[HawkMan]

No, I agree it's more suited to tablets than the start menu, but is don't agree that the start menu is more suited to desktops. Once you actually give it a chance, you'll see that win 8 and the start screen has several benefits for the desktop

- more favorite/fast access apps

- more organized

- quicker to find the apps

- quicker to click and launch the apps thanks to bigger hit zone.

And with the small tiles in 8.1 the advantage 8 had over 7 in the amount of favorite apps directly accessible(7-10 vs 30+ Without scrolling) is quadrupled.

[COKid]

I really get tired of how patronizing fans of Windows 8 can be, as if there is something wrong with people who don't agree with them. They spend a great deal of time and expend a lot of effort desperately trying to convince us that if only we would give Windows 8 a chance, our eyes would be opened and we would see just how wonderful it really is. Or they ridicule us for being "stuck in the past" and/or "afraid to try something new".

 

But here's the thing: Some people will never like Windows 8. Ever! And here's another thing: That's ok!

 

Everyone has their own tastes. If some people like the design of Windows 8/8.1, cool. But if other folks prefer the more traditional look of previous versions of Windows, what's the problem? If we all are able to accomplish what we want with our systems, who cares what OS we use to do it?

[HawkMan]

I really get tired of how patronizing fans of Windows 8 can be, as if there is something wrong with people who don't agree with them. They spend a great deal of time and expend a lot of effort desperately trying to convince us that if only we would give Windows 8 a chance, our eyes would be opened and we would see just how wonderful it really is. Or they ridicule us for being "stuck in the past" and/or "afraid to try something new".

 

But here's the thing: Some people will never like Windows 8. Ever! And here's another thing: That's ok!

 

Everyone has their own tastes. If some people like the design of Windows 8/8.1, cool. But if other folks prefer the more traditional look of previous versions of Windows, what's the problem? If we all are able to accomplish what we want with our systems, who cares what OS we use to do it?

So far, you seem to be the patronizing one though...

[ThaCrip]

No, I agree it's more suited to tablets than the start menu, but is don't agree that the start menu is more suited to desktops. Once you actually give it a chance, you'll see that win 8 and the start screen has several benefits for the desktop

- more favorite/fast access apps

- more organized

- quicker to find the apps

- quicker to click and launch the apps thanks to bigger hit zone.

And with the small tiles in 8.1 the advantage 8 had over 7 in the amount of favorite apps directly accessible(7-10 vs 30+ Without scrolling) is quadrupled.

 

 

who knows, maybe you are right. but given my initial experience of Win8 i can't see me liking it more than Win7 at the end of the day. i just can't be troubled to bother with it (like investing time into it etc) at this point especially given Win7 is the standard nowadays.

[HawkMan]

Not liking it is not the same as not suited for and doesn't work.

[MorganX]

Nothing that Microsoft has put out with live tiles has been a hit (so far anyway). MS needs to sit down and figure out what's wrong and fix it. Personally I think people prefer the icons and widgets that Apple and Samsung offer, rather than any hardware reasons.

 

Microsoft has many shortcomings. Apps have always been one of them. They finally have Instagram and I understand even it lacks functionality. They're taking too, long. So they finally have Instagram and native Facebook, if they shore up the app situation, how do they get people to give the phone a try after passing it over?

 

Right now, to consumers, WP isn't the best at anything. They don't relate to it in a personal way ... love my 925. It's not too late, but MS doesn't have the creativity at this time to reach humans. They're the new IBM. Technically they should be buying our stuff, does not compute.

 

The only real risk MS took was alienating too many happy Windows 7 users since the whole Windows 8 push. They haven't taken enough risks or the right kind IMO.

 

Microsoft hasn't lost anything (other than maybe user trust and confidence in them.) They've only failed, as they really always have, with their mobile initiatives, with consumers. Nothing else was ever at risk, there is no alternative for desktop OS' nor in the enterprise.