Malaysia Airlines 'loses contact with plane' (and search effort updates)

[(Account no longer active)]

I just hope some idiot didn't bring a radio jamming device onboard.

 

This has been a horrible day for Malaysia Airlines.

 

Actually, reading about them further, a jamming device would have probably had little effect. You'd need to bring kilos of equipment onboard to tune one exactly right. Note: jamming devices are illegal.

[Biohead]

Hello,

We built PCs. I think we can do something like this ;)

 

With civil aviation, it just isn't as simple as building the hardware and writing the code. Due to the amount of regulations, even if such a thing were started to be worked on today, you'd likely be looking at least 10 years to get it completed. The autopilot system is one hell of a maze and to make such changes would require a phenomenal amount of testing and certification. Then there's the fact that when it comes out, it won't be classed as an AD (airworthiness directive) - therefore almost every airline won't actually go through with the modifications as there's nothing forcing them to, so only brand new aircraft will actually have it fitted. With Boeing spouting the 787 will have a shelf life of 50 years (remains to be seen but let's go with it) then you're looking at 60 years or so that aircraft won't have this fitted.

 

That said, the 777 is one good aircraft. Almost as modern as you can get in terms of electrics and with a proven crash structure (BA 38 and Asiana 214 - most aircraft would have broken up even at such low speeds), whatever has happened, something has gone seriously wrong to cause this.

[Ryoken]

There was radar coverage near where it went missing.

 

The article did say that they could not determine if it was lost from Radar cause it went down, or cause of range or other interference. Even where there is Radar coverage, it's not 100%, and often has gaps due to terrain, or cause areas are not overlapping.

 

Anyway, sad to see it went down, but not unexpected. 

[spenser.d]

Hello,

We built PCs. I think we can do something like this ;)

I don't think it is as easy as you think it is. Our time and resources would be much better served coming up with ways for cars to talk to each other and drive themselves in order to prevent car accidents. The safety record of commercial air flight is impeccable. Driving cars, not so much.

[macoman]

Prob like most other plane crashes, something broke or someone screwed up.

99% of these are pilot errors... 777 are very reliable airplanes.

[SuperJediMedia]

Does anyone know if there is a Roku channel that is covering this live?

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-airline-023820132.html

UPDATE [12:37]: Tuoi Tre, a leading daily in Vietnam, reports that the Vietnamese Navy has confirmed the plane crashed into the ocean. According to Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat, Commander of the Region 5, military radar recorded that the plane crashed into the sea at a location 153 miles South of Phu Quoc island.

Funny how no other major news outlets said this

[Hum]

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) ? Vietnamese air force planes on Saturday spotted two large oil slicks close to where a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 went missing earlier in the day, the first sign that the aircraft carrying 239 people had crashed.

 

The oil slicks were spotted late Saturday off the southern tip of Vietnam and were each between 10 kilometers (6 miles) and 15 kilometers (9 miles) long, the Vietnamese government said in a statement. There was no confirmation that the slicks were related to the missing plane, but the statement said they were consistent with the kinds that would be produced by the two fuel tanks of a crashed jetliner.

 

Foreign ministry officials in Italy and Austria said the names of two nationals from those countries listed on the flight's manifest matched passports reported stolen in Thailand.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/oil-slicks-found-hunt-missing-malaysia-jet-135232226--finance.html

[macoman]

Well now is just time to check the black box to see what happened and why the airplane failed

[SuperJediMedia]

What black box? I am pretty sure they said they haven't found the plane yet.

[Dot Matrix]

NBC News is reporting that at least two people on the plane had stolen passports, which is now raising terror concerns. :/

[macoman]

What black box? I am pretty sure they said they haven't found the plane yet.

well in the event the airplane is found, they will eventually be able to check the black box. Hope the airplane is not on the bottom of the deep sea. Which will make almost impossible to get the airplane.

[Romero]

True. Inflatables would not be a solution, that is a given. However, a low density device could be something worth looking into, no? I mean, yes, if the black box is trapped in whatever place it is, it will stay there, but if gets free, and manage to go up towards the surface, would it not be better than not being able to ever retrieve it because it just somewhere on the ocean/sea floor?

 

Easier to retrieve, perhaps, but what happens when a strong current tows the floating black box far away from the crash/wreckage site? I don't think this is such a great idea.

 

I don't think it is as easy as you think it is. Our time and resources would be much better served coming up with ways for cars to talk to each other and drive themselves in order to prevent car accidents. The safety record of commercial air flight is impeccable. Driving cars, not so much.

 

Agree. No doubt acomplishing something like this will be massively costly and as someone said will take a very long time to even be implemented across the board. I don't think passengers will be willing to pay 10x or perhaps 100x the current ticket prices to afford such over the top safety features given the generally safe nature of commercial flight. Far more people die yearly due to road accidents but of course air crashes always draw more attention (not that anyone suffering and dying in a crash anywhere is a good thing).

[SuperJediMedia]

For all we know, the plane may not even crashed

[Hum]

For all we know, the plane may not even crashed

Aliens ... ?

[einsteinbqat]

A black box emits a signal known as the Underwater Locator Beacon. The device is activated as soon as the recorder comes into contact with water, and it can transmit from a depth as deep as 14,000 feet.

 

Source : http://natgeotv.com/uk/air-crash-investigation/black-box

 

Engineers and tech guys can come up we plenty of idea to make it easier to locate de signal.

 

Easier to retrieve, perhaps, but what happens when a strong current tows the floating black box far away from the crash/wreckage site? I don't think this is such a great idea.

[Romero]

A black box emits a signal known as the Underwater Locator Beacon. The device is activated as soon as the recorder comes into contact with water, and it can transmit from a depth as deep as 14,000 feet.

 

Source : http://natgeotv.com/uk/air-crash-investigation/black-box

 

Engineers and tech guys can come up we plenty of idea to make it easier to locate de signal.

 

That's nice to know, but how does it help in the case of a floating black box that has been carried far away from the wreckage? Isn't it far better that the ULB help locate the wreck (that needs to be studied) and perhaps possible survivors nearby?

[einsteinbqat]

I don?t know, this is a problem that they can figure out. GPS and whatnot! This is a technical problem, and they can surely find a solution.

 

That's nice to know, but how does it help in the case of a floating black box that has been carried far away from the wreckage?

 

[SuperJediMedia]

Stolen passport smells Terrorist/Criminal activity.

[Romero]

I don?t know, this is a problem that they can figure out. GPS and whatnot! This is a technical problem, and they can surely find a solution.

 

GPS for what, the rest of the plane? Because the BB can already be located due to its beacon most of the time. I'm also sure in the more than half a century they've been in use you're not the first one to think of the idea of floating BBs. BBs are pretty heavy given they need to withstand 1,110?C for an hour and 260?C for 10 hours and be able to operate between -55? to +70?C (as per your link), so the floatation device would need to be pretty huge. Also none of it will help if the BB is caught in the wreckage. Perhaps one can think of some sort of fancy ejector for it but now we're getting into ridiculously expensive territory here (not to mention added weight and so much additional complexity) and all for what? Underwater BBs are rarely lost I would believe and mostly always recovered, though sometimes it may be a bit difficult.

[einsteinbqat]

Gosh! I have no idea why you go into technicalities. We sent men on the moon! Geeks out there can certainly find a way to find a drifting black box on the ocean surface, whatever the way.

 

Black box specs:

• Dimension:
  • Height ? 15.5 cm (6.1 in);
  • Width ? 12.2 cm (4.8 in);
  • Length ? 32 cm (12.62 in);
• Weight: 5.2 kg (11.5 lbs).

Not that heavy.

 

What do you mean, ?for what?? Perhaps because airline companies at least owe that to the grieving families to explain how their loved ones died, and improve the next generations of aeroplanes?

 

In any case, these are technicalities, and therefore neither of us can really explain or have enough knowledge to even answer our own questions. However, I believe that whatever they can find to make the black boxes easier to retrieve is a step in the right direction.

 

GPS for what, the rest of the plane? Because the BB can already be located due to its beacon most of the time. I'm also sure in the more than half a century they've been in use you're not the first one to think of the idea of floating BBs. BBs are pretty heavy given they need to withstand 1,110?C for an hour and 260?C for 10 hours and be able to operate between -55? to +70?C (as per your link), so the floatation device would need to be pretty huge. Also none of it will help if the BB is caught in the wreckage. Perhaps one can think of some sort of fancy ejector for it but now we're getting into ridiculously expensive territory here (not to mention added weight and so much additional complexity) and all for what? Underwater BBs are rarely lost I would believe and mostly always recovered, though sometimes it may be a bit difficult.

[Scirwode]

This incident has hit close to home. There are several people on board known by several of my friends and right now the mood is very glum. We are all wishing for the best but as the hours tick by the chances of good news gets even more slim. I am posting in this thread at the moment and one thing it has taught me is that there are people in Malaysia who think this is a joke, with countless number of people making crude and untrue statements all around. But those who care are also out in full force, making sure those idiots stay in the background.

 

With 24 hours now passing since the plane's last contact, all we can do now is pray  :( .

 

Scirwode

[Mr. Gibs]

What do you mean, ?for what?? Perhaps because airline companies at least owe that to the grieving families to explain how their loved ones died, and improve the next generations of aeroplanes?

In any case, these are technicalities, and therefore neither of us can really explain or have enough knowledge to even answer our own questions. However, I believe that whatever they can find to make the black boxes easier to retrieve is a step in the right direction.

For one, the data in it has to be near dam indestructible. Look at the lengths of testing they go. Two it has a pretty long battery life, it's designed to last underwater for upto 30 days and continuously send out a signal. Adding in things like GPS will greatly greatly reduce that and then water currents would move it to another place, also if the black box is underwater your GPS will mostly be useless.

Planes have other technologies that can aid in locating, the 787 constantly ends information to Boeing and the airline via a datalink that way if anything is wrong the airline / Boeing is aware of it and can provide assistance. Another technology is ADS/B (Automatic Dependent surveillance broadcast), basically the plane sends out a constant signal that alerts other planes, ATC, people on the ground with receivers on the planes current position. The problem with that is over the ocean and in parts of the world ADS/B isn't as fully implemented as it is in the US and Europe but that is slowly changing.

[riahc3]

Hello,

It is impossible to bring a jammer on a plane strong enough.
 
 

I just hope some idiot didn't bring a radio jamming device onboard.

The modern PC also to 60 years to get to where it is now. I think it is worth looking at :)
 

With civil aviation, it just isn't as simple as building the hardware and writing the code. Due to the amount of regulations, even if such a thing were started to be worked on today, you'd likely be looking at least 10 years to get it completed. The autopilot system is one hell of a maze and to make such changes would require a phenomenal amount of testing and certification. Then there's the fact that when it comes out, it won't be classed as an AD (airworthiness directive) - therefore almost every airline won't actually go through with the modifications as there's nothing forcing them to, so only brand new aircraft will actually have it fitted. With Boeing spouting the 787 will have a shelf life of 50 years (remains to be seen but let's go with it) then you're looking at 60 years or so that aircraft won't have this fitted.
 
That said, the 777 is one good aircraft. Almost as modern as you can get in terms of electrics and with a proven crash structure (BA 38 and Asiana 214 - most aircraft would have broken up even at such low speeds), whatever has happened, something has gone seriously wrong to cause this.

Cars, yeah, are more accidient prone. The best way for this is to minority report everything but you know privacy idiots...
 
 

[Hum]

DALLAS ? One of three Americans aboard the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 is a longtime IBM executive who raised his family in North Texas before moving to East Asia.

The name of Philip Wood, 50, is among 239 people identified on a passenger manifest provided by the airline. Two others with American passports are listed as Nicole Meng, 4, and Yan Zhang, age 2.

Wood?s ex-wife confirmed the family?s fears in a Facebook post on Saturday afternoon.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/american-father-philip-wood-feared-to-be-passenger-on-vanished-malaysia-airlines-flight-205115030.html

[Hum]

The lack of a call "suggests something very sudden and very violent happened," said William Waldock, who teaches accident investigation at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, Ariz.

It initially appears that there was either an abrupt breakup of the plane or something that led it into a quick, steep dive. Some experts even suggested an act of terrorism or a pilot purposely crashing the jet.

"Either you had a catastrophic event that tore the airplane apart, or you had a criminal act," said Scott Hamilton, managing director of aviation consultancy Leeham Co. "It was so quick and they didn't radio."

 

http://news.yahoo.com/why-malaysia-airlines-jet-might-disappeared-213133681.html