NASA Orion crew exploration vehicle (updates)

[Skiver Veteran]

Other then Falcon Heavy, are there any other launchers that could get this to the moon?

 

Also with regards to Space X and Starship, as much as I do believe this will ultimately replace Orion and any of the others that are in development. We do have to keep in mind that we're still pretty early in it's development cycle. It took Space X a good 2-3 years to nail the take off and landing with the Grasshopper, Falcon 1 and then  finally 9. Whilst some of that knowledge they gained will be transferable, it's not all applicable and it's on a much larger scale so we shouldn't get our hopes up on Elon's timescales too much. 

 

As far as I know they haven't even began to think about life support systems on the ship yet have they? I'm not sure if that's Mars specific or just in general?

[DocM]

21 hours ago, Skiver said:

Other then Falcon Heavy, are there any other launchers that could get this to the moon?

 

Once/if the Blue Origin BE-4 engine gets sorted out, the Blue Origin New Glenn or the ULA Vulcan-Centaur 5 Long Heavy (larger upper stage tanks & 6 solid  boosters), but those are delayed by Blue Origin's BE-4 engine problems.  

 

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Also with regards to Space X and Starship, as much as I do believe this will ultimately replace Orion and any of the others that are in development. We do have to keep in mind that we're still pretty early in it's development cycle. It took Space X a good 2-3 years to nail the take off and landing with the Grasshopper, Falcon 1 and then  finally 9. Whilst some of that knowledge they gained will be transferable, it's not all applicable and it's on a much larger scale so we shouldn't get our hopes up on Elon's timescales too much. 

 

A key event will be a full Starship update in late October. 

 

While they're testing the SN-05 and SN-06 propulsion modules for short hops, the ramp to high altitude testing and skydiver landing tests is accelerating; 

SN-08 to SN-11 are already being built, all full airframes, and the tanks for Super Heavy #1 are already under construction. The High Bay (vehicle assembly building) is being topped off, and the orbital launch table is also well along. Its 6 legs are almost ready for their concrete pours.

 

That update should be fun.

 

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As far as I know they haven't even began to think about life support systems on the ship yet have they? I'm not sure if that's Mars specific or just in general?

 

The huge volume of air in a Crew  Starship (850-1000 cubic meters vs. 10 for Crew Dragon) would provide a huge buffer. A 4 person crew could survive weeks with nothing more than fans to keep the air circuculating, CO2 scrubbers, filters,  humidity control and a supplementary O2 tank. More than enough for lunar missions.

 

Also pack a couple microwave ovens, freezers for frozen meals, and two of Crew Dragon's toilets (one of each a spare).

 

Mars would need a more involved recycling environmental control system, and they have been working on one.  So has a team of Honeywell and Paragon SDC, both ISS contractors, for commercial exploration vehicles.

[DocM]

Good Lord...

 

 

[anthdci]

3 hours ago, DocM said:

Good Lord...

 

 

 

is anyone surprised?

[IsItPluggedIn]

I wonder if this will push the launch 4-12 months or if some of that can be done in parallel to the SLS work.

[DocM]

4 hours ago, IsItPluggedIn said:

I wonder if this will push the launch 4-12 months or if some of that can be done in parallel to the SLS work.

I'm thinking more series than parallel 😠

[DocM]

GAO has again reamed NASAs backside  over SLS & Orion. Costs, more delays, and the current delays do not take into account those caused by CoVid-19.

 

Summary,

 

https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-21-105#summary

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>

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) again delayed the planned launch date for Artemis I, the first uncrewed test flight involving three closely related human spaceflight programs—the Orion crew vehicle, Space Launch System (SLS), and Exploration Ground Systems (EGS). Together, these programs aim to continue human space exploration beyond low-Earth orbit. The most recent delay, to November 2021, resulted in part from manufacturing challenges and represents a 36-month slip since NASA established a schedule to measure performance in 2014. This new launch date does not account for the effects of COVID-19. According to NASA officials, COVID-19 delays and schedule risks will place pressure on NASA's ability to achieve this launch date.

 

Development cost estimates for key programs also increased. The cost of the SLS program increased by 42.5 percent and the EGS program by 32.3 percent since 2014, for a combined increase of over $3 billion, bringing the total to $11.5 billion. NASA does not plan to complete revised estimates for Orion, which are tied to the second, crewed test flight (Artemis II) before spring 2021.

> etc.

 

 

[Steven P. Administrators]

I hope this is the right thread, I couldn't find one for the Lunar mission (except for the Orion ship updates) this is for the rocket itself that will take them there

 

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The four main engines of Nasa's new "megarocket" are to be fired in unison for the first time, demonstrating the launcher's raw, explosive power.

 

The Space Launch System (SLS) is part of the US space agency's Artemis programme, which aims to put Americans back on the lunar surface by 2024.

 

The engine "hotfire" is the last in a series of tests known as the Green Run.

 

It will help Nasa certify the rocket for its maiden flight, scheduled to take place later this year.

 

This uncrewed mission, called Artemis-1, will launch Nasa's next generation spacecraft, Orion, on a loop around the Moon.

 

Saturday's eight-minute ground test - due to take place within a two-hour window from 22:00-00:00 GMT (17:00-19:00 EST) - is designed to simulate the rocket's climb to orbit.

 

The core stage will be anchored to a steel structure called the B-2 test stand on the grounds of Nasa's Stennis Space Center near Bay St Louis, Mississippi.

 

Once ignited, the four RS-25 engines at the base of the core will generate 1.6 million lbs (7 Meganewtons) of thrust - the force that propels a rocket through the air.

 

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54583588

 

 

Images: NASA

 

And here is where the live stream will be:

 

 

[DocM]

Steve P's post about the SLS Green Run (static fire), which should be done this afternoon (Saturday, Jan 16, 2021), got mislocated so here's a link. It should be streamed on NASA TV. Ignition is estimated at 1700 Eastern.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by DocM

[DocM]

The SLS Green Run should burn for 8 minutes, and in spite of the size, fire & fury it has about the same thrust as a Falcon 9, roughly 1.7 million pound-force. Most of SLS's liftoff thrust comes from the 2 solid boosters (SRBs). 

[DocM]

14 hours ago, DocM said:

The SLS Green Run should burn for 8 minutes, and in spite of the size, fire & fury it has about the same thrust as a Falcon 9, roughly 1.7 million pound-force. Most of SLS's liftoff thrust comes from the 2 solid boosters (SRBs). 

 

The SLS Green Run burn aborted after 67.7 seconds.

 

Cause: a Major Component Failure (MCF)  signal from engine #4.

 

A FID (Failure ID) from #4 hit the controller, which then triggered a Major Component Failure (MCF) and did the shutdown. There was also a flash from the engine.

 

Also; even though they've done several Wet Dress Rehearsals (WDRs), this was the first time tanks filled with cryogenic propellants were pressurized to flight levels (!!)

 

There are spare engines at Stennis, and the first guess at a turnaround for Green Run 2 is 3-4 weeks. Bridenstine didn't sound very confident about Artemis 1 flying this year.

 

 

[DocM]

Space Launch System advocate Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Alabama) does not intend to  run for re-election in 2022.

 

https://www.theintelligencer.com/news/article/AP-sources-Alabama-senator-has-indicated-he-15928534.php

 

[DocM]

You just had to know this was coming...

 

Green Run 2 postponed

 

https://spacenews.com/nasa-postpones-second-sls-green-run-test/

 

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NASA postpones second SLS Green Run test

 

WASHINGTON — Just days after NASA said it was ready to perform a second static-fire test of the Space Launch System core stage, the agency announced Feb. 22 that the test would be delayed because of a valve problem.

 

NASA said it was postponing the Green Run static-fire test, which had been scheduled for Feb. 25, after discovering a problem with one of eight valves called “prevalves” associated with the stage’s four RS-25 main engines. The valve, which supplies liquid oxygen, was “not working properly,” NASA said in a statement, but didn’t elaborate on the problem.

 

Engineers identified the problem during preparations over the weekend for the test. NASA said it will work with Boeing, the prime contractor for the core stage, to “identify a path forward in the days ahead and reschedule the hot fire test” but did not set a new date for the test.

>

 

 

[DocM]

SLS is stacked, and we have Artemis 1 launch windows;

 

Window: Feb. 12 - 27

Duration: 6 weeks during the first half of the window, 4 weeks during the second half

 

Backup Window: 2 weeks later in March

 

 

[IsItPluggedIn]

Its stacked and ready to go, in 3-4 months, it blows my mind how slow this thing still is. I expected that once they got to this stage, there couldnt be as many ways to slow it down.

[DocM]

On 24/10/2021 at 18:21, IsItPluggedIn said:

Its stacked and ready to go, in 3-4 months, it blows my mind how slow this thing still is. I expected that once they got to this stage, there couldnt be as many ways to slow it down.

 

With Boeing as the prime contractor, if there's a way they'll find it. 

[DocM]

<speechless> 

Just for the record, NASA has been working on Orion for about 20 years.

More problems, this time they're having an issue with the side hatch.  They want to fly a crew around the Moon later this year on the Artemis 2 mission, but that means resolving numerous problems. Heat shield (working on this for 10 years), life control system, batteries. And now this.

https://spacenews.com/nasa-studying-issues-with-orion-hatch-design/

 

[DocM]

Given recent events, including the election...

The return of Bridenstein's Monster, launching NASA's Orion spacecraft on a SpaceX Falcon Heavy, but this time no Sen. Richard Shelby around to kill it.

 

 

 

[DocM]

The Space Launch System (SLS), Boeing being the main contractor, could be canceled as soon as March or April, a victim of it's unaffordability. Orion will probably die with it. 

Artemis Moon missions will likely be completely handed over to SpaceX and  Blue Origin, who previously were only going to provide the landers.