Enthusiasm Lost For Linux On The Desktop


Recommended Posts

*Shrug* my daughter's 4890 runs like a champ, but again, different systems and all that.

It could also be a different OS. There were problems on all sort of cards last year (see this article), then new issues came out with one of the Windows 8.1 updates this year. And then again with the Firefox 33 release last month. It was so bad I almost considered permanently switching to Chrome since AMD supposedly had already blocked all legacy AMD drivers (< 9.10, legacy are 8.97) on Windows 8 yet the issues kept popping up. Anyway it's not just AMD, Intel IGPs had all sort of annoying rendering issues too, only nVidia managed to stay out of that mess.

This is a reason to avoid AMD - not Microsoft.

What? I never said it was a reason to avoid Microsoft.

Get Nvidia GTX Titan and you will be set broke.

 

Fixed that for you :)

 

The 970 makes much more sense nowadays.

 

As for Linux the last hurrah may be SteamOS. Valve have the resources and the profile to fix it. Time will tell I guess but gaming is often mentioned as a reason to keep Windows when people talk about trying out Linux.

  • Like 2

Fixed that for you :)

 

The 970 makes much more sense nowadays.

 

As for Linux the last hurrah may be SteamOS. Valve have the resources and the profile to fix it. Time will tell I guess but gaming is often mentioned as a reason to keep Windows when people talk about trying out Linux.

 

They call it the Titan because after you buy one, you have to "tighten" your wallet.

 

Anyway, I know the card is nearly 2 years old now and there are more affordable solutions. Still, I like my Titans a lot, so sleek and quiet.

 

Back on topic, I don't think gaming is really what would drive Linux to be "successful" on the desktop in terms of market share. In my view, Linux already is successful for the simple fact that people are still using and supporting it for decades now.

  • Like 2

The problem with Linux is that it's fragmented to hell.   I think SteamOS will help on the GPU side of things as it'll make nVidia and AMD push harder with it's drivers but Linux from a Desktop point of view (It's awesome as a server) is still years away from being viable.

  • Like 2

Honestly I don't think anything will drive Linux to be a desktop success at this stage. But SteamOS should help widen it's adoption among gamers. Maybe even encourage some of the big publishers to start releasing their titles on it. And it should push AMD and nVidia to straighten out their drivers a bit.

I'm in the same crowd as the OP. I have attempted a couple of posts over the past month or two and couldn't hit the 'Post' button because I couldn't sum up what I was thinking and feeling like the OP did.

 

Linux Mint seems to be the ONLY major Distribution at this time that is getting much of anything done, and occasionally I've been reading that the people working on Cinnamon and Mate (including Clem himself) keep getting the Development Tools broken upstream because of changes that are made without a proper vetting process -- so Clem and the Gang have to do their work with sometimes-broken tools that don't always do the job properly.

 

This is one example of many in the FLOSS arena, and one of the chief complaints I have, Stuff gets broken way too often. Change for the sake of change is DAMAGE.

I've had the same revelation like the OP about 15 years ago. 

 

Back in the late 1990s I used to be one of those who thought Linux was the bee's nipples, and Windows sucked. Which to be fair it did back then - remember Windows 98 or Windows ME?

 

Then Windows 2000 was released and it didn't suck. On the contrary. It worked just fine, all the apps I needed worked fine, drivers weren't an issue anymore. The latter two were definitely an issue on Linux, and still are to this day. As an example: Run Firefox on Linux and on Windows on the same hardware. See the latter run circles around the former in terms of performance.

 

The Linux community had its chance on the desktop. They blew it by producing sub-par desktop experiences as well as not getting the applications up to snuff. 

 

Actually I think the real problem lies in the god complex most programmer have.  They all think they know better, which is why we have a million different distributions.  This is what really hurts Linux.  There should be one package for binaries.  There should be one software center.  There is just too much fragmentation in a very small world.

AMD user here (R9 270X). FOSS drivers work great. Virtually on par with the binary blob, but without all the stability headaches, slow updates, and bugs after an xorg update. Although to be fair, the Catalyst binary blob is pretty good these days as well. Haven't had any problems in a long time (years) with either.

 

As for the bugs you listed Majestic, I thought you were using XFCE? Those are mostly Gnome 3 related. Gnome3 has always been glitchy for me. Conversely, XFCE's built-in compositor is solid as a rock. I get smoother flash performance on it than on Windows. 2D and 3D frame rates are consistent with the proprietary or the FOSS driver. That's the only problem with Nvidia. If their driver goes belly up, you're relying on the reverse engineered open source Noveau. In the long term, AMD's cooperative stance has yielded many benefits.

Instead of trying to find an Operating System that fits you best, why don't you just use the OS that fits the applications you use on a regular basis to best?

 

It's an OS, you're not suppose to know it's there - it's there to assist your applications in working. Linux, WIndows, OS X, OS/2, Unix, OpenVMS, MS-DOS - who cares? As long as the application you're using works. HOWEVER I completely agree with finding the right OS that helps your workflow, but to be honest, most operating systems are the same.

 

Face it, OS X and Windows will fit the majority of users. Then there's the users who like to tinker with their machines more than actually use them in a productive way - they'll spend all day trialing the best operating systems, and blowing their machines away time and time again. 

 

Enjoy computing in general, not arguing which OS is the best, because guess what? It's not gonna get you laid..

As for the bugs you listed Majestic, I thought you were using XFCE? Those are mostly Gnome 3 related. Gnome3 has always been glitchy for me. Conversely, XFCE's built-in compositor is solid as a rock. I get smoother flash performance on it than on Windows. 2D and 3D frame rates are consistent with the proprietary or the FOSS driver. That's the only problem with Nvidia. If their driver goes belly up, you're relying on the reverse engineered open source Noveau. In the long term, AMD's cooperative stance has yielded many benefits.

The primary issue is related to how the Nvidia driver is handling GLX double buffering (I think), which affects most compositors that use hardware rendering (such as Clutter, and Compton). The XFWM compositor works fine, but I find the amount of tearing that I get is quite distracting, and any attempt to use V-sync comes up against this driver issue.

 

Instead of trying to find an Operating System that fits you best, why don't you just use the OS that fits the applications you use on a regular basis to best?

It's an OS, you're not suppose to know it's there - it's there to assist your applications in working. Linux, WIndows, OS X, OS/2, Unix, OpenVMS, MS-DOS - who cares? As long as the application you're using works. HOWEVER I completely agree with finding the right OS that helps your workflow, but to be honest, most operating systems are the same.

Face it, OS X and Windows will fit the majority of users. Then there's the users who like to tinker with their machines more than actually use them in a productive way - they'll spend all day trialing the best operating systems, and blowing their machines away time and time again.

Enjoy computing in general, not arguing which OS is the best, because guess what? It's not gonna get you laid..

Two things, first is that Linux DOES fit me best for most cases except gaming, and even that is improving. I much prefer the Linux way to the Windows way for most stuff, hence why I use it, the issue is that I've had to go back to Windows and retrofit Cygwin and such because my experience with Linux is so broken that it's become intolerable. If it was functioning correctly, I'd be back to using it as my primary in a snap.

Second, I'm not arguing which OS is best, they all have their advantages, I'm simply facing a hard fact that I can't work with Linux (and specifically Nvidia's Linux support) in it's current state, which is a shame. Part of my enjoyment of computing is that I like to tinker, it's why I became a programmer. I know it's not going to get me laid :rolleyes:, but it's a part of computing as a hobby that I enjoy :).

The primary issue is related to how the Nvidia driver is handling GLX double buffering (I think), which affects most compositors that use hardware rendering (such as Clutter, and Compton). The XFWM compositor works fine, but I find the amount of tearing that I get is quite distracting, and any attempt to use V-sync comes up against this driver issue.

That definitely is strange. Most compositors should be limiting/syncing the frames automatically without the need for VSync. Is it not possible to revert to a previous driver version until the issue is resolved?

That definitely is strange. Most compositors should be limiting/syncing the frames automatically without the need for VSync. Is it not possible to revert to a previous driver version until the issue is resolved?

Possibly, I tried rolling back already and failed hilariously (ended up chrooting from a LiveCD and re-installing the latest version of the driver to get back to a working OS), and I got bored trying to figure out how to do it. Admittedly I'd given up on that option out of frustration more than anything.

I agree that the vsync thing is weird. I get serious tearing with scrolling Windows and stuff. The Nvidia drivers have a new option which supposedly forced vsync, but it only works on the primary monitor, which is no good since I run a dual-monitor setup.

The issue with Linux is the fragmentation and duplication of effort. Fragmentation leads to rushed products and less man power per project since everyone is doing his or her own thing,

1) KDE and Gnome. Different developers with different approaches and ideas. I never had the chance to use Gnome3. Gnome2 was nice but it was stuck with old obsolete libraries such as bonobo/libgnome(ui). By the time things were ported to dbus and anything of important in libgnome(ui) was moved up to glib/gtk, the developers decided to redesign the desktop. In addition to that, there was the gdk/cairo thing and then gtk3 came out.

On KDE's side, qt3 was getting old and didn't support many new libraries. Qt4 came out and with it came KDE4. But there was still a lot of duplicated effort where Kdelibs contained better alternatives to functions in Qt4. Most of those improvments were upstreamed in Qt5. However, there are still problems in KDE. Akonadi framework still has some severe bugs.

 

Things just never had a chance to settle down and stabilize in the Linux desktop world.

Basically we are stuck in a state where we are always cleaning up our frameworks instead of concentrating on polishing the user experience.

2) I am one of the people who are really enthusiastic by systemd and wayland and that is because of the doors they open.

Wayland needs Qt5, gtk3, sdl2 or higher. older application can still run through xwayland. That means a lot of legacy applications won't have the full wayland experience.

nvidia's mainline driver right now only supports fermi cards and above with people using older cars on a long term support branch. That means if full wayland support in nvidia driver comes out now, only fermi cards and above will have it.

 

By the time wayland has replaced X11, we will be too busy porting applications to future gtk/Qt versions and there won't be many people fixing crashes and bugs appearing as a result of the switch to wayland.

 

KDE has a lot of potential if developers concentrate on fixing bugs instead of having to deal with the messy underlying framework. I am sure Gnome3 is as good too but I have no idea what kind of stability state it is in right now.

The primary issue is related to how the Nvidia driver is handling GLX double buffering (I think), which affects most compositors that use hardware rendering (such as Clutter, and Compton). The XFWM compositor works fine, but I find the amount of tearing that I get is quite distracting, and any attempt to use V-sync comes up against this driver issue.

 

Two things, first is that Linux DOES fit me best for most cases except gaming, and even that is improving. I much prefer the Linux way to the Windows way for most stuff, hence why I use it, the issue is that I've had to go back to Windows and retrofit Cygwin and such because my experience with Linux is so broken that it's become intolerable. If it was functioning correctly, I'd be back to using it as my primary in a snap.

Second, I'm not arguing which OS is best, they all have their advantages, I'm simply facing a hard fact that I can't work with Linux (and specifically Nvidia's Linux support) in it's current state, which is a shame. Part of my enjoyment of computing is that I like to tinker, it's why I became a programmer. I know it's not going to get me laid :rolleyes:, but it's a part of computing as a hobby that I enjoy :).

Well said :)

 

TBH, I was trolling abit lol.

I know where the OP is coming from with his rant, I too have tried most distro's out there, but there is always something that goes wrong that causes me to have to fix it, or loot for a fix, be it an update to a library or something else out of my control and I spend more time fixing than using the system.

 

The main issue for me is lack of proper driver support, which to me is the number one thing holding Linux back, I to have decided to stick with Windows for the foreseeable future (even though I do not wish too) due to the latest Linux distro i tried locking up on me numerous times over a 3 day period, the only way I could fix it was to reboot the laptop.

 

From what I have seen Linux has a big issue with new hardware, again driver related and which is not Linux's fault but the hardware maker's, it has made rather large strides to be a usable OS, it just needs more support.

Unless Microsoft allows xbox games on Windows...

Then SteamOS will die perhaps along with Steam

Gabe doesn't realise that Microsoft are still playing nice and keeping him around to promote gaming and healthy competition

I doubt Microsoft is capable of being this awesome.

The usability and enthusiasm for any Linux (desktop) distros is totally based on the user. I have used Linux since RedHat 7 and, while I appreciate anyone's choice for their own OS, my distro is completely satisfactory to me. Can  I do everything? No. Can any distro do everything with all sorts of software? Probably not. But for 9/10ths of the things that I need to do, it is satisfactory for me.

 

That said, I use OS X as well as Windows 8.1. All have their strengths and weaknesses. I appreciate this opinion post from the OP. Hopefully this thread will not degrade into another immature "my distro is better than your distro" or a Windows vs. Linux bashing. In those posts, no one ever gets convinced and everyone leaves with hurt feelings.

  • Like 2

The usability and enthusiasm for any Linux (desktop) distros is totally based on the user. I have used Linux since RedHat 7 and, while I appreciate anyone's choice for their own OS, my distro is completely satisfactory to me. Can  I do everything? No. Can any distro do everything with all sorts of software? Probably not. But for 9/10ths of the things that I need to do, it is satisfactory for me.

 

That said, I use OS X as well as Windows 8.1. All have their strengths and weaknesses. I appreciate this opinion post from the OP. Hopefully this thread will not degrade into another immature "my distro is better than your distro" or a Windows vs. Linux bashing.

I'm in this club. It mirrors what I said recently in another thread on that same topic.

I don't view drivers as a major issue any more on Linux. These days 95% of systems work OOTB without any user intervention. There will be bugs here and there, and things may break from time to time. I don't see that as a problem exclusive to Linux though. Software is imperfect.

The good news is, GNU/Linux has come on leaps and bounds from its earlier years, and like the other major OS', is now very user-friendly, requiring little to no technical knowledge to get up and running with distros like Ubuntu, Mint, SuSE, Fedora, etc. Without the headaches of OS rot, malware, viruses and other nasties, this makes Linux very reliable and stable. Not to mention the fact that it's highly customisable and has a great selection of easily accessible and high quality free software.

In summary, I disagree with the contention that GNU/Linux on the desktop is any more difficult or problematic to use than other OS' these days.

  • Like 3

If you want a 'classic' Linux experience, forget about GNOME and KDE. Use LXDE. GNOME and KDE have just become eye candy.

 

Modern Nvidia cards and Linux are still a bit flaky. I'd suggest Intel graphics for Linux. Release the source Nvidia!

 

Being able to manage other PCs via SSH is awesome. That's why I prefer Linux when it comes to networking.

If Linux Mint could seamlessly join a Windows Domain/Active Directory and run MS Office, I'd switch a boat load of high risk PC's @ work to it in a heartbeat. When I say "high risk", I mean PC's used by mindless people who love emoticons and carry a towel to wipe up the drool they leave on the floor wherever they go. Just the thought of eliminating virtually all malware threats on these machines is a religious experience for me. Office online is nice, but you can't browse and open a file locally. You have to upload to OneDrive.

 

Something I've noticed in playing with Linux is that it doesn't seem to tolerate a hard shut down very well. On the machines that its happened, its dog slow on boot afterward and suffers from other little problems here and there. I'm sure this could be fixed, but I've not spent the required time to learn much troubleshooting/repair of Linux because its not a viable option at this point.

 

I'd give it a serious long term whirl on my personal machine if it ran...(don't hate) all my favorite console/arcade emulators as good as Windows. Silly I know.... Dual boot wouldn't work for me. If I'm going to learn something, I gotta live it.

A long developpement delay between XP and Vista and the flop that it was as given Linux Devs plenty of time to give us something that "just work".  Instead it's the adoption of OS X that grew in that period.  Then we got Windows 7 and it was bliss again, until Windows 8...  

 

I guess Linux had lots of time to become good.  But the lack of interest of the what, 92% of Windows users?  Is not forcing any devs to bring good apps to Linux.  The only major thing that happened with Linux is SteamOS but even that is a little bit stale...

 

I've tried many distro, but with my dual monitor setup, sound card, video, ... I've ran into problems like all the time.  Enough to make me WANT Windows back on my PC.

 

To each their own.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Posts

    • Why you need to take back control of your synced passwords and how to go about doing that by Paul Hill Credit: Pixabay Last month, when Google decided to introduce daily and weekly caps for Gemini, it reignited an anxiety of mine, that you can’t really depend on service providers to maintain features forever, and it got me looking into free software (as in freedom) in other areas too. One app I quickly came across was KeePassXC on desktop and KeePassDX on Android as an alternative to password manager lock-in within the Chrome or Firefox ecosystems. I personally like to switch around with browsers, and using either password manager is inconvenient, so something like KeePassXC was interesting to me. The main issue with it now is syncing; I was not sure how to do that. After a bit of research, I came across Syncthing, a tool I was vaguely familiar with but had never used because it seemed complicated. However, I was completely wrong, and honestly, I think everyone should use it if they use multiple devices. It essentially lets you share folders peer to peer across all of your devices, no cloud services that you don’t control necessary! And it was fairly simple to set up, if not a bit clunky. Since setting it up, I’ve also started using Syncthing to back up other apps too, so don’t think it’s limited to just saving password databases. You can use it for pretty much anything you use Dropbox or Google Drive for. Before continuing to talk about those apps a bit more, let’s walk back a bit and talk about browser sync. Ever since the late 2000s and early 2010s, really, since we have been using smartphones, browser sync has been a necessity of life. I don’t know about you, but I have hundreds of passwords saved. For the most part, they’re all unique, so I don’t remember them and rely on software to manage them for me. Until recently, I’ve relied on password managers in Chrome and Firefox, but what I always found annoying was that it can be hard to transfer them between browsers. Sure, on Windows it is simple enough, but on Linux, exporting bookmarks has been temperamental. It works OK nowadays, but not too long ago, Chrome required you to enable exporting passwords in chrome://flags. The situation is even worse on mobile; there is no exporting or importing of passwords of any kind. You literally have to do it on a desktop, which is incredibly annoying in our mobile-first world. Sync also lets us take out bookmarks, history, tabs, and autofill data easily. To enable sync, it’s just a matter of signing into the browser once, and it handles the rest. It’s nice and easy. Obviously, all this has some issues, including those I’ve outlined above about it being hard to transfer data between browsers, but also things such as account suspension, lost account passwords, and other lock-in mechanisms, such as passkeys, being tied to a specific browser. On a sidenote, I have just removed all of my passkeys because they can make it harder to move browsers. I think the biggest threat to your synced passwords, especially if doing this with Google, is having your account suspended. I don’t ever expect mine to be suspended, but you do hear horror stories on Reddit where people lose access to their Google accounts. Imagine if you have hundreds of passwords, then suddenly lose access to them because Google froze your account, what would you do? So yes, it can be nice to use these syncing services for their convenience, but they also have risks. You may have seen me going on about free software quite a bit in my editorials. It’s essentially a concept championed by the Free Software Foundation. It’s software under particular licenses that grant you four freedoms: run the program for any purpose (0), study and change the source code (1), redistribute copies to others (2), and the freedom to distribute modified copies to others (3). For example, if there is an app I use and one day it gets abandoned by the developer, I can keep running it or even clone the software and continue developing it. Look at the myriad of cool services Google has run over the years before killing them. You can’t take the source code for those because they are proprietary, for the most part. Both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so I get the freedoms listed above. In my use case where I’m syncing a database full of my passwords, I also get proper ownership over my data, there is no losing access to the database due to a frozen account, I can access the code of the tools I’m using, and I can get support from real people online if I run into issues, rather than having to consult a vague help page from an opaque company. With the KeePassXC password manager, you create a .kdbx file, which is what will be synced between devices. KeePassXC has cross-platform apps and also has browser extensions so that the browser can fetch passwords from the database once it is unlocked. Meanwhile, Syncthing is a peer-to-peer file sync tool where you can select folders to sync between your devices. Just pop files in the folders you choose, and then they will be available across your other devices whenever they come online. Syncthing is resilient as it works over both LAN and the internet and only ever sends content between your devices, never to a third-party server somewhere else. By combining these two pieces of software, you can essentially replicate the browser sync functionality. I have had a weird, conflicting issue where a new file is appearing, but it doesn’t seem to be impacting my main password database, which is updating between devices just fine. If you want to get a setup similar to what I have, you will need to go here to download KeePassXC for your computer. Once you have that, you will need to download your passwords from your web browser to a CSV file. In Chrome, you can type chrome://password-manager/settings into the URL bar, and you should see an option to download your passwords under Export Passwords. This will give you the CSV file you need for importing into KeePassXC. If you use a different browser, just use a search engine and type “browser-name export passwords” and muddle along. In KeePassXC, you’ll want to press Import File from the home screen, select the CSV file, and create a new database from it. On one of the screens of the wizard, there will be a Title field with a drop-down selected to none. Change this to Title and continue. You’ll select a name for the database, the encryption level (the defaults are fine), and then you will pick a password. I would choose four unrelated words that are easy for you to remember, as you’ll be typing them fairly often to access your passwords. When you have all your passwords in your new database, you will want to set up the browser extension so that your browser can fetch passwords from KeePassXC. Rather than explain how to do that here, refer to KeePassXC’s guide on how to set it up properly. Once you’ve got that set up, you want to install KeePassDX on Android. You can grab it on the F-Droid store and the Google Play Store. For iPhone users, there are other .kdbx-supporting apps, but I haven’t tried any of them, so have a look around and use what suits you. Once you have that done, you will want to install Syncthing on your computer and find a third-party app for your mobile device. On Android, I use an app called BasicSync; there are also options for iOS, but again, I’ve not tried these. Once you’ve got SyncThing, you’ll want to set it up and connect all of your devices together and share a folder between your gadgets. PCWorld has a good tutorial on setting up a synchronized file between your devices using SyncThing. Once you’ve set it up, congrats, you’ll never have to touch that stuff again except for adding or removing devices. I’ll be honest, I didn’t particularly like setting up Syncthing. It didn’t take me a massive amount of time, but I think I had to check online because I found it a bit confusing. That said, I’ve had it running for several weeks now and never need to touch the Syncthing settings, so that’s very nice. I also mentioned a conflicting file. I’m not sure why this is appearing, but the main .kdbx file seems to be updating and syncing just fine. What’s nice is that both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so they won’t just vanish one day; you can take the code and fork the project or use a range of alternative implementations that others have made. It’s also nice that it works over LAN, so even if your ISP is having problems, your passwords will still sync. One area where you will want to be a bit more careful with this setup is if you only have one device. I am OK because I have a computer and two phones, all synced up. If you just have one device, you will probably want to store a backup of your .kdbx file somewhere else. Obviously, you’ll also want to remember your password really well, too. If you get locked out, it's game over. Overall, if you want to take back control of your computing from big tech, taking control of your passwords is an important part of this. You don’t need to immediately clear out your browser’s password manager; try running KeePassXC and the password manager concurrently for a while to see if you run into any problems. If you do try this out, let us know some other creative ways to use Syncthing. I haven’t really come up with a solution about what to do with my bookmarks, for example.
    • If the price was a dollar, someone would complain "Why isn't it free?" If it was free, someone would complain they weren't being paid to play it.
    • That lens of history will burn if you hold it at the right angle... Warn users too late: Shame, Microsoft! That extremely minor update to an obscure Control Panel widget required 2 years of warning. Warn users too early: Shame, Microsoft! We've got better things to do. Pipeline and process be damned, we'll just always be disappointed, eh?
    • Microsoft Paint used to be my favorite Windows app as a kid, and it's still pretty good by Usama Jawad I have been using Windows since the early 2000s, when I was around 10 years old or so. I vaguely remember playing around with Windows 98 and Windows 2000, but that may have been on school PCs which had old operating systems installed. My main OS on the home PC, and the one I recall spending most time with, was Windows XP. At that time, I used the home PC to create Word and PowerPoint documents for school, but a lot of the time, I simply used it to play games. My dad would bring game discs which we would try and install on the PC, sometimes unsuccessfully, and sometimes, we would rely on flash games in the browser, like Bubble Trouble on Miniclip. However, the problem with the latter approach was the internet speed. On a good day, our dial-up internet would offer us speeds of 56 kbps, but on most days, it was closer to 33 kbps. This did not facilitate online gaming as I would often have to wait minutes for a game to load or "draw" on the screen, and trying to download pirated games wasn't simple either. I remember getting tired of waiting for online games to load and just downloading simulator games from the Big Fish Games website instead, only to be disappointed after finding out that I was just being given access to trial versions of the title, and I needed to fork out money to pay for the full version. All of this is to say that it wasn't very easy to find entertainment options on the home PC when I was a kid, due to a number of reasons, mostly outside of my control. This situation pushed me towards a rather unconventional ally: Microsoft Paint. Whenever the internet wasn't working as good as I expected, I would simply spin up Paint and draw complete rubbish on the canvas. Of course, that wasn't always the intention, but it usually happened when I messed up drawing a straight line or something, and then I would give up on that particular piece and simply draw a random collection of objects. Microsoft Paint was extremely accessible and easy to use. Even if you weren't an artist, you could quickly understand the tools at your disposal and how to leverage them on a canvas. The absolute breadth on offer ensured that each painting was truly unique, as you could utilize various combinations of tools like the pencil, paint, spray paint, and more to truly personalize your creation. Since I wasn't particularly good at drawing both on digital screen or a physical screen, I remember that my main style of art would be to insert a bunch of randomly intersecting lines and then fill them with random colors through the paint can. I have trying to replicate that art style in the latest version of Paint below, and as you can see, it's truly Pablo Picasso-esque. The human imagination truly knows no bounds Microsoft Paint kept me occupied for hours and was my best friend when video games on the home PC were inaccessible for one reason or the other. There was no academic or professional reason for which I would need to use Paint, but I still loved using it in my personal time, even if what I created wasn't worth being shown to anyone. It was simply fun. Fast-forward to today, and the situation is mostly the same. Now that I am almost 29 years old, and I still have no reason to use Microsoft Paint in a professional capacity. In fact, I don't even use it in a personal capacity, except to dabble with it from time to time, just to see if core functionalities are still intact. And I'm happy to say that I think Microsoft Paint still offers the same accessibility and inviting experience that it did to me a couple of decades ago, even though its UX has been refreshed and it's been integrated with Copilot features. Interestingly, things could have been a lot different, had Microsoft had its way. Microsoft Paint was marked for deprecation with the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update in 2017, and even began displaying a product retirement alert, urging customers to shift to Paint 3D instead. Fortunately, after consumer backlash, Microsoft reversed course on this decision, and Paint continues to be a native app inside Windows installations that can also be updated quite frequently through the Microsoft Store. Instead, Paint 3D ended up on the chopping block, which is for the better, I think. I have intermittently played around with Microsoft's refreshed Paint experience in the past few years, and I do think it has received worthwhile upgrades. the UI and the UX has been modernized while retaining core functionality, and the app is still fairly easy to use. It doesn't meet any of my use-cases, but I've never really had any use-cases ever, as described previously. Of course, the elephant in the room is the Copilot integration. Personally, I believe that this is one place where Copilot does make sense, environmental concerns aside. I know that a lot of creatives use AI to generate images, and while some may be using professional alternatives, Paint still offers a decent casual experience, with the power of Copilot. Of course, you do need to have a valid Microsoft 365 Copilot license and available credits to use it, but even if you don't, you still get the big Copilot button in the toolbar, unfortunately. All in all, I am glad that Microsoft Paint continues to be a native feature in Windows 11, and a piece of software that has evolved to meet modern needs without cutting off its own roots. It's just an iconic piece of Windows history that was an essential part of my childhood, and while I don't use it anymore, I'm just glad it is still there.
    • 2TB WD_Black SN7100 PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD drops to its lowest price in over three months by Fiza Ali Amazon is currently offering the 2TB WD_Black SN7100 internal solid-state drive at its lowest price in over three months, so you may want to check it out, if you have been considering a storage upgrade, before the deal dries up (purchase link is toward the end of the article). Featuring a PCIe Gen 4.0 interface and M.2 2280 form factor, the SN7100 promises to deliver sequential read speeds of up to 7,250MB/s and sequential write speeds reaching 6,900MB/s, offering as much as a 35% improvement in performance compared with the previous generation. It also achieves random read speeds of 1,000,000 IOPS and random write speeds of 1,400,000 IOPS. The drive uses Western Digital’s TLC 3D NAND technology for reliable performance and is further supported by a five-year limited warranty. It also offers strong endurance, rated at up to 1,200TBW, making it suitable for demanding workloads such as gaming, content creation, and high-speed recording. Moreover, its DRAM-less architecture claims to improve power efficiency (the SSD relies on system memory for caching via HMB), while the WD_Black Dashboard software enables users to monitor drive health, install firmware updates, and activate Game Mode for potentially better performance. Finally, it operates within an operating temperature range of 0°C to 85°C, and can withstand storage temperatures from -40°C to 85°C. 2TB WD_Black SN7100 PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD: $242.96 (Amazon US) Check this deal out if you want a 4TB option. Good to know This Amazon deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      Supreme Spray LV earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Genuinetonerink- Dubai earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Genuinetonerink- Dubai earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      hhgygy earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      AMV earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      514
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      163
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      88
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      74
    5. 5
      Michael Scrip
      73
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!