Is Microsoft ignoring the desktop again?

[Defcon]

Vista -> Win 7 - huge architectural changes, lots of improvement to file system, kernel, lower layers, changes to Explorer, desktop

Win 7 -> Win 8 - again major changes (even if you ignore Metro), new task manager, kernel hibernation, File history, MS account

 

But so far, everything about Windows 10 is focused on Continuum, mobile etc. The only new thing on the desktop is the revamped start menu and virtual desktops, Cortana. It's the same desktop, same Explorer, same internals, just a few color and icon tweaks. There has been no information about what's actually new underneath or how its better.

 

It's now been 2 public announcements and they haven't talked about a single engineering feature except DX12.

[Guest]

Engineering features are reserved for Build, TechEd and similar conferences.

[HawkMan]

Vista -> Win 7 - huge architectural changes, lots of improvement to file system, kernel, lower layers, changes to Explorer, desktop

Win 7 -> Win 8 - again major changes (even if you ignore Metro), new task manager, kernel hibernation, File history, MS account

 

But so far, everything about Windows 10 is focused on Continuum, mobile etc. The only new thing on the desktop is the revamped start menu and virtual desktops, Cortana. It's the same desktop, same Explorer, same internals, just a few color and icon tweaks. There has been no information about what's actually new underneath or how its better.

 

It's now been 2 public announcements and they haven't talked about a single engineering feature except DX12.

 

continuum is all about the desktop, and Cortland is at least as useful on desktop, probably more since for many that's their main productivity platform.

[chrisj1968]

they neglected the desktop. yes. long gone are the pleasures of installing custom icons, themes, which included color schemes and taskbar and start button customizations.

 

Now we are in a generation of playskool colors and icons. hard blue and red icons and the fat ugly search bar.

 

the ONLY reason for my upgrading is for specifically DX12! I'll only be concerned with the gaming side. now MSFT is in effect dividing up the customer base. OEM owners like me can keep our old OS's and install, reinstall with impunity. then if my current 8.1 install and activate with a phone call for the code goes away, I'll dump windows all together for a flavor of linux. I use steam for most of my gaming anyway. I'll bid my desktop games farewell and never look back.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

continuum is all about the desktop, and Cortland is at least as useful on desktop, probably more since for many that's their main productivity platform.

 

Not really, continuum is all about ease of switching between desktop/table modes.  Will have zero affect on the desktop (i.e. PC)

 

What is Cortland? (I'm assuming Cortana?)

[Max Norris]

they neglected the desktop. yes. long gone are the pleasures of installing custom icons, themes, which included color schemes and taskbar and start button customizations.

How so considering they made some changes specifically to appease the desktop users? And why do you think you can't change icons, themes etc now? There's already a few custom themes for 10 floating around, ClassicShell's still planning on working with 10, etc etc.. basically everything you could change in XP you can still change today.

[Defcon]

Engineering features are reserved for Build, TechEd and similar conferences.

Maybe. But where is the 'building Windows 10' blog like they did for 7 and 8?

 

Everything points to a mobile and touch focused release with one concession to desktop users - windowed Metro apps, and the removal of fullscreen start menu and charms bar. If you think about it, that's just toning down Metro, there are no actual changes to desktop.

 

Everything is same - the personalization settings which were gimped in Win 8 are still useless, there is still no per monitor DPI, Explorer is still the same, there has been no effort put into improving desktop experience for users. 

[greenwizard88]

I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

 

The desktop has a notification center (with desktop level notifications, not metro apps), DX12, a cleaner UI, multiple desktops, and I can tell you from firsthand experience, the preview of 10 is more stable than the 8.0 release on my laptop.

[Defcon]

continuum is all about the desktop, and Cortland is at least as useful on desktop, probably more since for many that's their main productivity platform.

 

On a desktop pc or laptop, Continuum has zero relevance and in fact you will never even see it.

[neo1911]

The case of Foreplay being awesome, sex being bad!

[Defcon]

I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

 

The desktop has a notification center (with desktop level notifications, not metro apps), DX12, a cleaner UI, multiple desktops, and I can tell you from firsthand experience, the preview of 10 is more stable than the 8.0 release on my laptop.

None of this is OS level change like the examples I pointed out for 7/8. It's just UI. The 10 Technical Preview is most definitely not more stable, there's the well known explorer.exe hang and graphics crash which is supposedly fixed in 9901 (which was never pushed). As you can tell I've been running the TP since day one on multiple machines.

[Woelfel]

I want to know what part of the desktop needs to be amplified? They've done alot on the desktop side in my opinion. I don't know if you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[greenwizard88]

None of this is OS level change like the examples I pointed out for 7/8. It's just UI. The 10 Technical Preview is most definitely not more stable, there's the well known explorer.exe hang and graphics crash which is supposedly fixed in 9901 (which was never pushed). As you can tell I've been running the TP since day one on multiple machines.

I never said it was more stable for everyone, just that I find that 10 is more stable on my hardware than 8 was.

 

edit: Also, the control panel was completely re-written. It's much easier to navigate now. And there's the whole precission touchpad API instead of the emulated PS/2 method that was used through 8...

[chrisj1968]

How so considering they made some changes specifically to appease the desktop users? And why do you think you can't change icons, themes etc now? There's already a few custom themes for 10 floating around, ClassicShell's still planning on working with 10, etc etc.. basically everything you could change in XP you can still change today.

 

appease. how are they actually "appeasing" desktop users? they are in effect locking up the OS so we can't customize the desktop. cars. let's take cars. you buy a car as they are. however, owners can add after market customizations to make the car look how they like it. not sure if this analogy works but, people who use the desktop hoped for a remade desktop. a new look, maybe similar but, atleast customizable. I can't see how tablets can do this really as there are variables about files and breaking tablets but on laptops or desktops.. that's different.

 

I DO have to admit that, MSFT is trying but they are completely clueless by focusing on the little bunny. MSFT right now, as it is, whether you want to believe it or not is alot like american politics. no matter who is in control, you are not going to like it. MSFT has divided the consumer base tremendously. there are those of us who like the desktop and those of the modern UI users who tell us desktop users, "get with the times", "learn to adapt", ad nauseum. it has nothing to do with adapting as it does with buying something that you want to make it look like how you want.

 

windows 8/8.1 and 10 are like a fascism. you WILL like 10, you WILL like the way we tell you to use it or you're a non conformist. allow the user to customize the OS the way they like... not asking too much I don't think

[Defcon]

I want to know what part of the desktop needs to be amplified? They've done alot on the desktop side in my opinion. I don't know if you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.

The desktop has been static since Vista or probably even Windows 98.

 

Just off the top of my head, what they could do -

 

- remove confusion with Homegroups, Libraries, This PC, My PC

- expose NTFS features like hard links, junction points, and actually use them

- per monitor dpi

- object oriented file system with smart searches - I don't know how many of you actually remember WinFS

- improved kernel

 

Trust me, there is TONS of stuff that can be done. Just take a look at Microsoft Research projects sometime, they do a lot of cool projects that never make it into a real product because of marketing reasons.

[ParadiseLost]

They conquered the desktop a long time ago. It's all about cloud and mobile now.

[TAZMINATOR]

If the desktop is removed, the users will be moving to Mac or Linux.

 

 

They said in the webcast that in Windows 10, you will have two modes which means you can use the desktop with keyboard/mouse. Unless you have touchscreen monitor/device, you can use tablet mode.  

 

Nothing is wrong with that.  The mode choice is up to you.

[Andre S. Veteran]

Engineering features are reserved for Build, TechEd and similar conferences.

This. It's pointless to argue about the lack of engineering features when they haven't been announced yet.

[Max Norris]

appease. how are they actually "appeasing" desktop users?

By bringing back/enhancing functionality that people complained about with Windows 8? Better start menu, better taskbar support, modern apps that behave exactly like the classic software, etc etc. They've even added some new functionality like virtual desktops and such for those that like that sort of thing. Where have they not?

 

they are in effect locking up the OS so we can't customize the desktop.

I ask again.. how? You can still change everything you could in previous versions. How are they locking it down? Can you not still change things, from the visuals like icons and theme to replacing guts themselves like the file manager and start menu? Since you still can, this is just FUD.

 

windows 8/8.1 and 10 are like a fascism. you WILL like 10, you WILL like the way we tell you to use it or you're a non conformist.

Little late to get an Oscar nomination I think. Just like every version of every OS that came before, nobody's putting a gun to your head forcing you to use it.. get a grip.

[123456789A]

On a desktop pc or laptop, Continuum has zero relevance and in fact you will never even see it.

 

That's the point. Desktop users were complaining that there's too much Metro in their experience with Windows 8. What desktop users are getting in Windows 10 is a cleaner, more consistent UI with the latest updates to the engineering of the OS (the things you don't see). The desktop experience of Windows 10 is designed with the keyboard and mouse user in mind. Don't forget they're also adding virtual desktops, and if you skipped Windows 8 because of its interface, you're also getting all the Hyper-V, OneDrive integration, new DirectX, etc. that you missed.

 

What else did you want for the desktop, animated wallpaper of Steve Ballmer clapping? If Microsoft was "ignoring the desktop" in Windows 10, you'd be getting another Windows 8.

[Defcon]

I have Win 8.1. And we ARE getting another Win 8, if you don't have a hybrid, there's very little new. Did you not read my 1st post?

 

Not improving is same as ignoring. This thread is about desktop users. The other poster said Continuum is a desktop feature and I pointed out its not.

[Seketh]

I have Win 8.1. And we ARE getting another Win 8, if you don't have a hybrid, there's very little new. Did you not read my 1st post?

 

Not improving is same as ignoring. This thread is about desktop users. The other poster said Continuum is a desktop feature and I pointed out its not.

 

But is. The irony of Windows 10 is that everything now runs on the desktop.

 

Everything you saw can and will be used by desktop users.

[nosense]

Very little new? Cortana\action center\Modern apps on desktop\muti desktop\ new desktop snapping\ new alt tab\dx12\etc. They even made a point that desktop keyboard\mouse users won't be left out on features on spartan.

 

LOL , I guess people going to get even more wild up when\if they show metro 2.0 at build 2015.

[DeusProto]

As someone who owns an E-ATX motherboard with two AMD video cards, I miss features like Aero Glass, I don't like the direction some software including Windows has taken where power users are cast aside - and desktop users - in favor of mobile platforms. Today's Windows 10 event did not show much of anything that would benefit someone like me who only uses desktop PCs. DirectX 12 and maybe Cortana.


That said, I found this official photo interesting, note the transparency:


Perhaps there is a new desktop oriented eyecandy GUI in the works but it wasnt quite ready to show off today:


https://winpreview.catalysis.com/images/laptop_device_start.png

 

This flat and 1980s look doesn't do it for me. I can't even set the caption bars black without hiding text! Its ridiculously dumbed down.

[Ian W]

- object oriented file system with smart searches - I don't know how many of you actually remember WinFS

WinFS wasn't actually a file system though, at least not in the traditional sense.