Is Microsoft ignoring the desktop again?

[binaryzero]

you mean you're not into recompiling the kernel every 3 days? weirdo

 

ZING! Am I weird if I do it every 2 days?

 

You've earnt 1 friendship point

[nosense]

You can remove it....Ps divergent sucks..

 

Personally I think we're screwed. the search bar on the taskbar is probably even uglier than metro and I sure hope there's a way to remove it cause I'd rather chew glass than look at this every day. my two cents

 

 

 

I do for skype. of course your point still stands it's freaking useless (just like it is for mobiles except the novelty probably wears out even quicker)

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Well, they kind of hinted to it, since they see "Windows as a service". I do not disagree with the concept, yet I'm unsure that would be the way to go about this.

 

Per this article: http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-windows-10-will-not-be-sold-as-a-subscription/

 

At its press event today, Microsoft announced that Windows 10 will be a free upgrade for Windows 7 and Windows 8 users during its first year of availability. There was some confusion, however, when Microsoft's Terry Myerson started talking about Windows 10 "as a service." Did that mean that after that first year of free availability, Windows 10 would cost an annual fee? I asked Myerson for clarification after the presentation, and he confirmed that there will be no additional fees attached to Windows 10, whenever you buy it.

 

Myerson clarified that Windows 10 users will still get free updates and support for the lifetime of the OS, exactly like past versions of Windows (like XP and Windows 7's Service Packs, for example). There's no subscription model for updates or support or continuing to use the OS. Myerson's reference to Windows "as a service" simply meant that Microsoft plans to update the OS with smaller, more regular updates rather than the big, chunky updates of past Service Packs.

 

 

And this article:  http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/windows-10-free-year-windows-7-windows-8x-and-windows-phone-81-upgrades

 

 

And, this clearly answers the bigger, lingering question of the day brought on through the confusion of touting Windows 10 as "Windows-as-a-Service." And that is - will Windows now come with a subscription model? The answer is 'no.' Once you choose to upgrade, the OS is yours to keep for the life of the device.

 

Well, it makes me feel better.  Can not wait until the CP comes out.

[onewarmslime]

You can remove it....Ps divergent sucks..

 

Thank God now I might actually use it

[nosense]

Cortana maybe useless to you, but not for me. Ill be setting calendar dates, looking up directions, setting alarms, launching programs,etc. I guess google voice and siri is useless to you too...

 

Seems like people are hating on something they know nothing about or even tested out yet. Just to bash it....

 

Even a barely functional 9901 Cortana, I can easily see myself using it.

 

Whats the purpose of Cortana on desktop PC?

 

Who has a microphone connected to their desktop PCs? 

Who doesn't have a mic  for desktop?

[GotBored]

Cortana maybe useless to you, but not for me. Ill be setting calendar dates, looking up directions, setting alarms, launching programs,etc. I guess google voice and siri is useless to you too...

 

Google Voice and Siri are used on mobile devices which have built-in microphones so I can actually use it, I don't have a microphone on my desktop PC.

 

edit: Its seems that my post which just asked what the purpose of Cortana was on a desktop PC was deleted.. that is odd..

[nosense]

Google Voice and Siri are used on mobile devices which have built-in microphones so I can actually use it, I don't have a microphone on my desktop PC.

 

edit: Its seems that my post which just asked what the purpose of Cortana was on a desktop PC was deleted.. that is odd..

and now cortana is on desktop......Might as well have it, since it's going to part of windows 10 laptop\tablet\phone\xbox echo system.

[TAZMINATOR]

Google Voice and Siri are used on mobile devices which have built-in microphones so I can actually use it, I don't have a microphone on my desktop PC.

 

Google Voice and Siri are different things.

 

Google Voice is text/call.  But I think you meant Google Now which is similar to Siri.

 

Siri is voice command system similar to Cortana.

 

 

So far we have voice command systems: Siri, Cortana, Google Now, Samsung Voice (Not sure if it is the right name)

[zhangm Supervisor]

edit: Its seems that my post which just asked what the purpose of Cortana was on a desktop PC was deleted.. that is odd..

 

Your post is number 68 in this thread:

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1243980-is-microsoft-ignoring-the-desktop-again/?view=findpost&p=596726338

[Kazama Levi]

If you mean visual styles, you can't without hacking the OS with UxStyle.

 

And theme is not the same thing as customizing window elements. This feature was clearly removed from Win 8.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8#Appearance_and_personalization

 

Stop arguing about it, its a known fact.

theme you say= "change taskbar color and background picture."

my definition =" install icon packs, wallpapers(background pictures), color schemes, Aero on/off, windows shapes (gothic, sci-fi). that's real customizing.

see here or http://customize.org/thumbnails/medium/106577.jpg

 

Yes, MS made using themes more and more complicated with every Windows release, all the while the hacks required to be able to use themes were getting ever more complicated.

 

XP: simple hack, supports very extravagant themes after that

 

Vista/7: Hack is a good bit more difficult and took a while until it was done. Possibilities for themes are reduced. You can't do the same things you could with XP themes.

 

Win Fail 8: Hack is again more difficult to do, and again took more time until people got it done. At the same time, possibilities for themes are greatly reduced over what was possible in XP.

 

10: Most likely again more difficult to hack in order to use themes, which will probably take people a good while to figure it out. Also, probably again less possibilities of what you can do with themes. Just plain pathetic.

 

Even in the case of themes, you're stuck with what the themes do, you can't customize them, e.g. changing colors, any further - not without hacking the themes, which would require a lot of knowledge about how themes are created etc.

 

Talking about something like this?

 

(9901 Build)

http://s24.postimg.org/jtefbmovp/Untitled_1.jpg

 

It's also there in Build 9879. If you could use it regularly, that would at least be a beginning. However, the problem is, MS doesn't allow you to use it for regular themes, because there, all you can change is the title bar color of the active window and taskbar.

In order for you to be able to use that color customization dialog you're showing, you must choose a High Contrast theme, and turning on High Contrast has several nasty side effects, e.g. it totally breaks the display of content in web browsers, IE and Firefox alike (I can make screenshots, if you want).

Therefore, it's impossible to use a High Contrast theme (inseparable requirement for the color configuration) for general use. If there was a possibility to turn High Contrast off while still retaining the ability for full color customization (and not just the window titlebar and taskbar), that would already be a nice start.

 

 

Personally I think we're screwed. the search bar on the taskbar is probably even uglier than metro and I sure hope there's a way to remove it cause I'd rather chew glass than look at this every day. my two cents

 

 

It's just one of many UI design decisions that have gone very, very wrong. They'd better give us an option to turn this nonsense off.

 

I do for skype. of course your point still stands it's freaking useless (just like it is for mobiles except the novelty probably wears out even quicker)

 

 

Like most desktop users, I don't have a microphone. This Cortana is definitely freaking useless, and another thing where they'd better provide an option to turn it off.

[nosense]

Look up^

 
Yes, MS made using themes more and more complicated with every Windows release, all the while the hacks required to be able to use themes were getting ever more complicated.
 
XP: simple hack, supports very extravagant themes after that
 
Vista/7: Hack is a good bit more difficult and took a while until it was done. Possibilities for themes are reduced. You can't do the same things you could with XP themes.
 
Win Fail 8: Hack is again more difficult to do, and again took more time until people got it done. At the same time, possibilities for themes are greatly reduced over what was possible in XP.
 
10: Most likely again more difficult to hack in order to use themes, which will probably take people a good while to figure it out. Also, probably again less possibilities of what you can do with themes. Just plain pathetic.
 
Even in the case of themes, you're stuck with what the themes do, you can't customize them, e.g. changing colors, any further - not without hacking the themes, which would require a lot of knowledge about how themes are created etc.
 
 
It's also there in Build 9879. If you could use it regularly, that would at least be a beginning. However, the problem is, MS doesn't allow you to use it for regular themes, because there, all you can change is the title bar color of the active window and taskbar.
In order for you to be able to use that color customization dialog you're showing, you must choose a High Contrast theme, and turning on High Contrast has several nasty side effects, e.g. it totally breaks the display of content in web browsers, IE and Firefox alike (I can make screenshots, if you want).
Therefore, it's impossible to use a High Contrast theme (inseparable requirement for the color configuration) for general use. If there was a possibility to turn High Contrast off while still retaining the ability for full color customization (and not just the window titlebar and taskbar), that would already be a nice start.
 
 
 
 
It's just one of many UI design decisions that have gone very, very wrong. They'd better give us an option to turn this nonsense off.
 
 
 
Like most desktop users, I don't have a microphone. This Cortana is definitely freaking useless, and another thing where they'd better provide an option to turn it off.

LMAO if you don't have a mic, how is it useless? You can just type it in instead.

 

Yes, you will be losing features like "Hey cortana turn off music" from across the room with out a mic.

[Kazama Levi]

Look up^

LMAO if you don't have a mic, how is it useless? You can just type it in instead.

 

Yes, you will be losing features like "Hey cortana turn off music" from across the room with out a mic.

I can type in stuff in the search box in the start menu for many, many years already.

My point still stands, Cortona is totally useless for the desktop user because it doesn't add anything useful. (Unless you're one of the few which have a microphone.)

[nosense]

"I can type in stuff in the search box in the start menu for many, many years already."No you cant, not to the extent of what cortana does, pure BS.

 

Your point doesn't stand "Like most desktop users, I don't have a microphone. This Cortana is definitely freaking useless," You're saying you can't use it because you have no mic, Yet you can still use it by typing it in, So that's false statement.You finding no use for it is a whole different thing.....

I can type in stuff in the search box in the start menu for many, many years already.
My point still stands, Cortona is totally useless for the desktop user because it doesn't add anything useful. (Unless you're one of the few which have a microphone.)

[TAZMINATOR]

I can type in stuff in the search box in the start menu for many, many years already.

My point still stands, Cortona is totally useless for the desktop user because it doesn't add anything useful. (Unless you're one of the few which have a microphone.)

 

Boo Hoo. Easy. Just add a microphone to your laptop/tower.  I still have my microphone from the 90's which I used to be a beta tester for security app company years ago and it still works to this day.. which allows you to use either voice or finger/eye scanning to get in to the desktop.

 

Everyone is entitled to their preferences. It is not useless. It works either way: Type or Voice command.

 

Cortana is new. Give MS sometime to add more data to Cortana ... which is why they said in webcast that they will update on the devices for lifetime once you install/upgrade Windows 10.

[binaryzero]

 

Yes, MS made using themes more and more complicated with every Windows release, all the while the hacks required to be able to use themes were getting ever more complicated.

 

XP: simple hack, supports very extravagant themes after that

 

Vista/7: Hack is a good bit more difficult and took a while until it was done. Possibilities for themes are reduced. You can't do the same things you could with XP themes.

 

Win Fail 8: Hack is again more difficult to do, and again took more time until people got it done. At the same time, possibilities for themes are greatly reduced over what was possible in XP.

 

10: Most likely again more difficult to hack in order to use themes, which will probably take people a good while to figure it out. Also, probably again less possibilities of what you can do with themes. Just plain pathetic.

 

Even in the case of themes, you're stuck with what the themes do, you can't customize them, e.g. changing colors, any further - not without hacking the themes, which would require a lot of knowledge about how themes are created etc.

 

 

It's also there in Build 9879. If you could use it regularly, that would at least be a beginning. However, the problem is, MS doesn't allow you to use it for regular themes, because there, all you can change is the title bar color of the active window and taskbar.

In order for you to be able to use that color customization dialog you're showing, you must choose a High Contrast theme, and turning on High Contrast has several nasty side effects, e.g. it totally breaks the display of content in web browsers, IE and Firefox alike (I can make screenshots, if you want).

Therefore, it's impossible to use a High Contrast theme (inseparable requirement for the color configuration) for general use. If there was a possibility to turn High Contrast off while still retaining the ability for full color customization (and not just the window titlebar and taskbar), that would already be a nice start.

 

 

 

 

It's just one of many UI design decisions that have gone very, very wrong. They'd better give us an option to turn this nonsense off.

 

 

 

Like most desktop users, I don't have a microphone. This Cortana is definitely freaking useless, and another thing where they'd better provide an option to turn it off.

 

90% of the third party themes out there are horrible, just look in the past pages of this thread lol.

[Max Norris]

XP: simple hack, supports very extravagant themes after that

 

Vista/7: Hack is a good bit more difficult and took a while until it was done. Possibilities for themes are reduced. You can't do the same things you could with XP themes.

 

Win Fail 8: Hack is again more difficult to do, and again took more time until people got it done. At the same time, possibilities for themes are greatly reduced over what was possible in XP.

 

10: Most likely again more difficult to hack in order to use themes, which will probably take people a good while to figure it out. Also, probably again less possibilities of what you can do with themes. Just plain pathetic.

 

Even in the case of themes, you're stuck with what the themes do, you can't customize them, e.g. changing colors, any further - not without hacking the themes, which would require a lot of knowledge about how themes are created etc.

You keep saying that the "possibilities for themes are greatly reduced" with each later version.. what exactly could the theme engine in XP do that the later ones couldn't? Real examples, not anecdotal please. And how does the "difficulty" of bypassing signed themes affect you? Once it's done it's literally a couple clicks and done. There's even one already out for Windows 10, long before the OS is even released.. doesn't sound like it got super hard to do. It's funny a couple people keep mentioning that "oh we can't customize the look anymore".. while completely glossing over the simple fact you totally still can. Nothing's changed. Even stuff like Windows Style Builder, a visual editor for these "impossible-to-edit" themes is already supporting 10.

[PaulATMOS]

Whats the purpose of Cortana on desktop PC?

 

Who has a microphone connected to their desktop PCs?

I think I'm going to invest in a good one now.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

Doesn't matter if you have a mic now, you will soon. It isn't like it is a huge investment. I've had a USB mic that I rarely touch for years.

[Dot Matrix]

Desktop is dead. There is more in today's computing other than the desktop. Today, it's all about cloud computing, and mobility. If you're hoping for an all desktop only OS, well then, I feel sorry for ya. Besides, customizing the desktop is ancient history. Windows 10 isn't comparable to Windows XP where you could easily customize everything. This isn't Microsoft locking things down, this is the industry moving away from "classic"  desktop-only computing.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Desktop is dead. There is more in today's computing other than the desktop. Today, it's all about cloud computing, and mobility. If you're hoping for an all desktop only OS, well then, I feel sorry for ya. Besides, customizing the desktop is ancient history. Windows 10 isn't comparable to Windows XP where you could easily customize everything. This isn't Microsoft locking things down, this is the industry moving away from "classic"  desktop-only computing.

The "desktop" is far from "dead".  Today wasn't just about cloud computing and mobility...it was a small, albeit long, presentation about some of the new features forthcoming.  

Edited February 17, 2015 by zhangm

[neo1911]

Desktop = Dead equals to Windows = Dead.

 

As simple as that. Wondering when will trolls on Neowin stop seeing things through their own narrow vision. Desktop is here to stay. It may evolve but cannot go away completely or Enterprises will abandon Microsoft and it's Windows platform in a heartbeat.

[+Zagadka Subscriber²]

Desktop is dead. There is more in today's computing other than the desktop. Today, it's all about cloud computing

 

I don't quite understand why "desktop" and "cloud" are mutually exclusive. The main functional use of "desktop" is running multiple apps simultaneously in the same space. The second is the file system. Both are sorely lacking on mobile systems.

 

Just keep the taskbar and windowed apps. This is essential in work and play.

[Dot Matrix]

The "desktop" is far from "dead".  Today wasn't just about cloud computing and mobility...it was a small, albeit long, presentation about some of the new features forthcoming.

Care to prove me wrong? Today has showed that Windows 10 is all about responsive computing. Universal apps, cloud computing, and mobility is driving Windows forward. Not once did I see anything related to the classic desktop. Not even a hint of anything forthcoming. In fact, Microsoft went out of their way to decommission old desktop only paradigms from Windows past. Microsoft is moving past the desktop. It's dead.

Edited February 17, 2015 by zhangm

[Rippleman]

Care to prove me wrong? Today has showed that Windows 10 is all about responsive computing. Universal apps, cloud computing, and mobility is driving Windows forward. Not once did I see anything related to the classic desktop. Not even a hint of anything forthcoming. In fact, Microsoft went out of their way to decommission old desktop only paradigms from Windows past. Microsoft is moving past the desktop. It's dead.

 

looks like you moved your theme from "start menu is dead" to now "desktop" is dead. What will be next for you?

[Defcon]

As for Cortana, its focus is clearly mobile and tablet devices. Also I'm pretty sure MS doesn't give a rats ass about people with old desktop pc's, their target clearly is

 

1) younger demographic who are being heavily courted and told that Windows is 'cool'

2) people with laptops who are willing to go all in to MS ecosystem

 

The other main revenue is from enterprise and business who have zero interest in anything shown so far and their needs will be addressed quite differently at one of the business events.

 

Windows has had voice recognition of some kind since Vista. My guess is < 0.0001% of users actually know about it and even less used it. I actually might buy a webcam/mike for my desktop pc IF the messenger integration and Cortana works properly.

 

Also I really hope they make it extensible and allow me to e.g. say 'Cortana, play my latest movie in XBMC'.