Democrats Plan To Win Elections With Illegal Alien Votes

[libertas83 154]

And to continue the logic. To go vote, wouldn't the student have to skip school as well? I believe I did when I voted.

 

High school student, the parents should take them to go get their ID. In fact, most of time you will skip school to go DMV with your parents to get a drivers license because the lines will be less busy. School is not the be all end all to life where you can't miss a day to take care of responsibilities.

[Mockingbird 3,007]

An 18yr old college student has a College ID. That could be made to work as a valid ID. While I'm at it, same can be done for military IDs as well.

 

Ha, Republicans make sure to make it so that college IDs are not consider valid for the purpose of voting.

 

 

And to continue the logic. To go vote, wouldn't the student have to skip school as well? I believe I did when I voted.

 

High school student, the parents should take them to go get their ID. In fact, most of time you will skip school to go DMV with your parents to get a drivers license because the lines will be less busy. School is not the be all end all to life where you can't miss a day to take care of responsibilities.

 

No. The voting booths are set up in the auditorium.

[libertas83 154]

Ha, no.  Republicans make sure to make it so that college ID is not consider valid for the purpose of voting.

 

Are you referring to some law or just your suspicions that Republicans wouldn't want college students voting?

 

Instead of being solution oriented, you guys on the left want to say Republicans are just wanting to discriminate, etc. when that is not true. Voter ID may or may not be the best solution to a voter fraud problem, but at least it is an idea. You want to make it better, contribute to it, help figure out how to solve the problems.

 

The fact is, there is nothing racist, or demeaning, or hurtful in requiring a Voter ID. I have to go out of my way to get a passport if I want to travel, I had to go out of my to pass a driver's test and get an ID to drive. That is life. This is nothing different. You want to vote, you actually care that enough, you will find a way.

No. The voting booths are set up in the auditorium.

 

Not at my college they were not. I had to drive a few miles away from campus to where they had the local fair in order to vote. Not all colleges and schools are the same.

[Mockingbird 3,007]

Are you referring to some law or just your suspicions that Republicans wouldn't want college students voting?

 

There're many, but the one I am thinking of in particularly is the one in North Carolina.

 

The fact is, there is nothing racist, or demeaning, or hurtful in requiring a Voter ID. I have to go out of my way to get a passport if I want to travel, I had to go out of my to pass a driver's test and get an ID to drive. That is life. This is nothing different. You want to vote, you actually care that enough, you will find a way.

 

Oh, so you do think that people should have to go out of their ways just to vote.

 

And so the truth comes out!  Thanks for admitting.

[libertas83 154]

Oh, so you do think that people should have to go out of their way just to vote. Thanks for admitting.

 

How else do you get people to the polls? You don't think its out of the way at all to go vote? I have to drive 10 miles to an elementary school I've never seen before to vote in my area. That means I have to take off work for a few hours to wait however long it takes to get through the lines. Even if you have groups pick people up, it's still something that takes you out of your way to go do it.

 

Now one day, if it can ever be figured out how to do it securely, voting online would be cool and done securely it would eliminate the need for voter ID, but that is a long way off given how vulnerable we are to hacking.

 

Either way, you fail at logic 101. I've proven that the majority of minorities can and have the ability to go vote because they participate in the very same activities that most of us that do require an ID.

 

You want life handed down to you, but that is not life. You have to work and earn in life. Deal with it.

[Mockingbird 3,007]

How else do you get people to the polls? You don't think its out of the way at all to go vote? I have to drive 10 miles to an elementary school I've never seen before to vote in my area. That means I have to take off work for a few hours to wait however long it takes to get through the lines. Even if you have groups pick people up, it's still something that takes you out of your way to go do it.

 

Now one day, if it can ever be figured out how to do it securely, voting online would be cool and done securely it would eliminate the need for voter ID, but that is a long way off given how vulnerable we are to hacking.

 

Since you drive, I am assuming that you already have a driver's license.

 

For you to vote is not as much a burden as for an 18-years old student who goes by bus or bike and doesn't have a state issued ID (assuming that school/college IDs are not consider valid).

 

 

You want life handed down to you, but that is not life. You have to work and earn in life. Deal with it.

 

Either way, you fail at logic 101. I've proven that the majority of minorities can and have the ability to go vote because they participate in the very same activities that most of us that do require an ID.

 

Where did you do that? Did you post statistics that minorities participate in these activities at the name rate as do non-minorities?

[Taliseian 228]

Face it...

 

The FACTS are that Voter ID only stops ONE method of ballot tampering -- in-person voting at a polling place.

 

More shenanigans have been done by Election Reps, Ballot Workers, and mis-programmed (sometimes on purpose) voting machines.

 

It's all about not having certain people who won't vote for their policies anyway being blocked from voting.

 

 

 

T

[Mockingbird 3,007]

You want life handed down to you, but that is not life. You have to work and earn in life. Deal with it.

 

Not at all.

 

I point out that the law put more burden on some groups than other and is an attempt to influent the composition of those that do vote.

[Mockingbird 3,007]

Face it...

 

The FACTS are that Voter ID only stops ONE method of ballot tampering -- in-person voting at a polling place.

 

More shenanigans have been done by Election Reps, Ballot Workers, and mis-programmed (sometimes on purpose) voting machines.

 

It's all about not having certain people who won't vote for their policies anyway being blocked from voting.

 

 

 

T

 

I love it when people think that things they say automatically makes it fact.

 

Fact: God exist.

 

Fact: This is a great school.

 

Fact: Guns are bad.

[libertas83 154]

Since you drive, I am assuming that you already have a driver's license.

 

For you to vote is not as much a burden as for an 18-years old student who goes by bus or bike and doesn't have a state issued ID (assuming that school/college IDs are not consider valid).

 

 

 

Do you admit then that for that 18 yr old student to vote today without voter id is still a burden? Whatever helps him go vote can be the same way that helps him go get an ID.

 

You are assuming college IDs cannot be used. How about if I create a voter ID law that I mandate that colleges must issue IDs that can be used for voting. Problem solved.

[libertas83 154]

I love it when people think that things that say automatically makes it fact.

 

Fact: God exist.

 

Fact: This is a great school.

 

Fact: Guns are bad.

 

I did list absolute facts not opinions. All of the things I listed are required by law thus making it a fact. What you have not proven is why those laws do not discriminate against minorities but extending that law to a voter ID does?

 

I can also give further evidence but that is coming from a state worker who works in human services. Human services is the group responsible for welfare, child support services, etc. Most minority groups on welfare have a form of ID as well as they deal with the state. For child support, a good way to get the father to pay is to go after their recreational licenses so that they have an incentive to pay.

 

I would have to go dig it up, but some of the state voter laws never had a single instance of a complaint other than the DOJ under Eric Holder saying it "could" prevent minorities from voting. In that very same state, minority voting was up in all the polls.

 

[Mockingbird 3,007]

Do you admit then that for that 18 yr old student to vote today without voter id is still a burden? Whatever helps him go vote can be the same way that helps him go get an ID.

 

How about you personally start driving students to the DMV so they can get their IDs?

 

You are assuming college IDs cannot be used. How about if I create a voter ID law that I mandate that colleges must issue IDs that can be used for voting. Problem solved.

 

I am not assuming: that's what the law said. I have no objection to college IDs that can be use to vote, but the law specifically said that college IDs cannot be used to vote.

[libertas83 154]

How about you personally start driving students to the DMV so they can get their IDs?

 

 

I am not assuming: that's what the law said. I have no objection to college IDs that can be use to vote, but the law specifically said that college IDs cannot be used to vote.

 

Rock the Vote and other groups should most certainly volunteer to do that. A lot of groups already do to help get people to the polls.

 

If that is what the law says, then maybe we should argue for the law to allow for a secure ID method to be available to college students as part of their ID! But instead the argument has never been to help achieve that goal, it is "you evil Republicans you want people to die!".

 

Look I know corruption, it exists at all levels of our government so there are certainly groups on both sides that will redistrict and do things to keep themselves in office. It's why I am a big supporter of term limits. But that does not mean every idea is bad, maybe badly implemented, but not bad or evil.

[theyarecomingforyou 10,428]

First and foremost, there is NOTHING in the US Constitution that explicitly guarantees citizens the right to vote. PERIOD. It's all implicit via language about elections.

What has that got to do with anything? Just because it's not explicitly stated in a three hundred document doesn't mean that it's acceptable to deny people the right to vote. Even if the US Constitution specifically forbade black people from voting or stated that a black person is of less value than a white person that doesn't mean that such a condition is acceptable today.

 

Why would Voter IDs necessarily have to disenfranchise minority voters? I can't speak to all the laws proposed for it so I can't say if someone did put something in there that makes it harder, but that doesn't mean that having a Voter ID will prevent minorities or any other group from voting.

Voter ID laws don't necessarily have to disenfranchise minority voters, it's just they way the current implementations have been drafted. If everybody was given a free government ID then it wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately conservatives have found a way to claim the supposed moral high-ground while furthering their own political agenda, pushing legislation that disproportionately affects Democratic voters.

 

Let's break down the logic of how improbable it is that minorities can't vote because of a Voter ID requirement shall we:

• Smokers must have valid ID to prove they are 18+ when purchasing cigarettes
• You must have a valid ID to prove you are 21+ when going to a strip club (more likely to get carded)
• You must have a valid ID to prove you are 21+ when purchasing alcohol
• You must have a drivers license to drive a certain class of vehicle. More strict guidelines needed for truck driving and other class vehicles
• You must have a license in many states to fish, hunt, or participate in other recreational activities
• You must have a background check and ID to purchase firearms
• In order to vote, you must stay up-to-date on your voter registration
• In order to vote, you must show up to a voting poll which is often not in a convenient place and requires taking off time from work

None of that matters, as numerous reports have concluded that Voter ID laws would prevent tens of millions of people from voting. That doesn't mean those people wouldn't get a government ID, it just means that the legislation discriminates against them. Race isn't important at all.

 

I have never seen a minority group not participating in one of these activities because they couldn't get identification or the license to do so. That eliminates the systematic logic that requiring a voter ID means it is a Jim Crow law to prevent minorities from voting.

Firstly, that's anecdotal evidence. Secondly, it's not that minorities and demographics that tend to vote Democrat don't have government IDs it's that there is a higher percentage that don't.

 

If the US wants to improve the integrity of the voting system by mandating photo ID then that's fine

[Mockingbird 3,007]

If that is what the law says, then maybe we should argue for the law to allow for a secure ID method to be available to college students as part of their ID! But instead the argument has never been to help achieve that goal, it is "you evil Republicans you want people to die!".

 

Look I know corruption, it exists at all levels of our government so there are certainly groups on both sides that will redistrict and do things to keep themselves in office. It's why I am a big supporter of term limits. But that does not mean every idea is bad, maybe badly implemented, but not bad or evil.

 

You idea only addresses one of the groups that is disproportionately affected by the voter ID requirements.

 

If the law said "everyone must get a state ID which will be easy to obtain and provided free of charge and henceforth the ID will be required to for the purpose of voting," I would have no objection, but as the law is currently written, it is done so specifically to disenfranchised specific groups of voters.

[Taliseian 228]

I love it when people think that things they say automatically makes it fact.

 

Fact: God exist.

 

Fact: This is a great school.

 

Fact: Guns are bad.

 

...and all I see is someone who has done nothing to refudiate what I said.

 

If what I said was in error, then prove it.

 

If what I said has a ring of truth, then I guess you have a problem dealing with the truth.

 

 

T

[libertas83 154]

What has that got to do with anything? Just because it's not explicitly stated in a three hundred document doesn't mean that it's acceptable to deny people the right to vote. Even if the US Constitution specifically forbade black people from voting or stated that a black person is of less value than a white person that doesn't mean that such a condition is acceptable today.

I will agree with part of what you said. The Constitution is not a declaration of our rights because our Founding Fathers believed in natural rights. As in, I exist therefore I have right to exist and be unique. That is why the Bill of Rights was not included at first, but the States would only ratify it if it contained a Bill of Rights to summarize the most important rights to protect.

Here is a trick question for you. Do you believe slaves should have counted as 3/5, 0, or a whole person?

Another tidbit, the Constitution is only 4 pages long in the original form, 15 pages in modern day form with all amendments.

 

Voter ID laws don't necessarily have to disenfranchise minority voters, it's just they way the current implementations have been drafted. If everybody was given a free government ID then it wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately conservatives have found a way to claim the supposed moral high-ground while furthering their own political agenda, pushing legislation that disproportionately affects Democratic voters.

That is not the argument that Democrats have been making. They explicitly refer to any attempts of voter ID laws must be racist, Jim Crow era laws, and that it would necessarily disenfranchise minority voters. I'm glad you can see a way where it won't.

 

None of that matters, as numerous reports have concluded that Voter ID laws would prevent tens of millions of people from voting. That doesn't mean those people wouldn't get a government ID, it just means that the legislation discriminates against them. Race isn't important at all.

 

What reports and for what states? Since each state is drafting their own legislation you can't generically claim this.

What I provided does indeed matter because quite often minorities do have a form of government issue ID and I listed several requirements that many minorities participate in. Are you telling me not a lot of black men visit strip clubs? Also, many states require ID for welfare and child support. Here is a link with some examples:

http://www.examiner.com/article/welfare-recipient-id-required-by-more-states

 

So it does matter because your argument is that it's hard for some people to get it and I'm claiming that many of those people require it for their daily habits or to get paid.

 

If the US wants to improve the integrity of the voting system by mandating photo ID then that's fine

[libertas83 154]

 

I am not assuming: that's what the law said. I have no objection to college IDs that can be use to vote, but the law specifically said that college IDs cannot be used to vote.

 

Just for you my friend. A list of approved Georgia colleges where College ID is accepted as a form of Voter ID.

 

http://sos.ga.gov/admin/files/acceptableID.pdf

 

[rafter109 127]

You idea only addresses one of the groups that is disproportionately affected by the voter ID requirements.

 

If the law said "everyone must get a state ID which will be easy to obtain and provided free of charge and henceforth the ID will be required to for the purpose of voting," I would have no objection, but as the law is currently written, it is done so specifically to disenfranchised specific groups of voters.

If this so called group of voters that would be disenfranchiesed never does any of the following things http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-photo-id/article/2534254 you might have a shred of credibility. I challenge you to find one person in the United States that is of legal voting age that has never needed to do anything on that list. You can't. The disenfranchised voter idea is a political game played by the Democrats to dig at peoples emotions and make those who are seeking fair and credible elections look bad. Democrats also were the ones that pushed for early voting crying that voters could not get to the polls on election day due to work, etc, etc. First of all, voting is a federally protected right. Any employer that denies you the ability to vote or punishes you for voting is committing a federal felony. Furthermore, voting in federal elections occurs every 2 years on a predictable schedule. If you cannot make it to the polling place on election DAY, absentee ballots are available. If you can't be bothered to adjust your schedule to exercise a fundamental right on the day it is scheduled or fill in an absentee ballot then maybe you should reassess your priorities. The reason Democrats wanted early voting was to increase the probability of someone being able to cast multiple ballots without being caught by election officials. Furthermore, unemployment data shows that Democrats are 3x more likely to be unemployed than Republicans, if this is the case those unemployed, disenfranchised democrat voters MUST have their photo ids to apply for unemployment/foodstamps/medicaid/etc and they have all the time in the world to take care of their business so they can get to the poll on election DAY.

[Mockingbird 3,007]

If this so called group of voters that would be disenfranchiesed never does any of the following things http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-photo-id/article/2534254 you might have a shred of credibility. I challenge you to find one person in the United States that is of legal voting age that has never needed to do anything on that list. You can't.

 

I doesn't matter. A 93-year old lady could at one time have a driver license, but is now confined to a wheelchair and no longer drives.

[libertas83 154]

I doesn't matter. A 93-year old lady could at one time have a driver license, but is now confined to a wheelchair and no longer drives.

 

Georgia law allows expired driver's license as well, if she drove and still has her license she can vote. The bigger problem for her is how is she getting to the polls? If she can find a way to get to the polls, then there is no reason why she can't find a way to get an ID as well.

 

Let's look at this a different way. How do you get people registered to vote? Isn't registration the same exact problem? If you can't get registered, you are being denied the right to vote. All Voter ID programs are is an extension of the voter registration program. So all of the volunteer groups that get people registered should be making sure people have a valid ID and help them get to a place to do it as well.

[rafter109 127]

Georgia law allows expired driver's license as well, if she drove and still has her license she can vote. The bigger problem for her is how is she getting to the polls? If she can find a way to get to the polls, then there is no reason why she can't find a way to get an ID as well.

 

Let's look at this a different way. How do you get people registered to vote? Isn't registration the same exact problem? If you can't get registered, you are being denied the right to vote. All Voter ID programs are is an extension of the voter registration program. So all of the volunteer groups that get people registered should be making sure people have a valid ID and help them get to a place to do it as well.

Agreed. Those who fight against voter id are just making excuses for limited and far fetched cases that can and should be overcome legislatively at the state level all in order to protect the unscrupulous behavior of other party members. There is no reason why anyone should argue against protecting the sanctity of the election process except for those who have something to hide.

[Taliseian 228]

Let's look at this a different way. How do you get people registered to vote? Isn't registration the same exact problem? If you can't get registered, you are being denied the right to vote. All Voter ID programs are is an extension of the voter registration program. So all of the volunteer groups that get people registered should be making sure people have a valid ID and help them get to a place to do it as well.

 

There is one small problem here....it seems that Republican law makers (primarily) have put serious roadblocks for a lot of the groups that register people to vote.  You know, those people who are in front of supermarkets and such asking if your registered to vote?  Well, for some strange reason the same people that want to force people to have an ID to vote also don't want to see people register to vote.  

 

Or, better yet, they put in the way roadblocks such as reducing the days available to vote (no more early voting to keep the number of people at the polls on election day down to a reasonable number), limiting the number of polling places (for some reason in primarily Democratic gerrymandered or minority districts).

 

If they were to remove most or all of these limitations and expand the ease of voting (more places, more time), then perhaps there could be widespread agreement about the need for a Voter ID -- which, again, does not solve any real voter issues since in-person voting (the only form of vote fraud that a Voter ID would eliminate and one that constitutes less than 0.000001% of all voter fraud in the past ten years).

 

Then again, the only reason why Republicans push so hard for such measures (and include gerrymandering districts in this) is that if they had no choice but to campaign on ideas alone, there would more than likely be no more Republican party.

 

T

[rafter109 127]

There is one small problem here....it seems that Republican law makers (primarily) have put serious roadblocks for a lot of the groups that register people to vote.  You know, those people who are in front of supermarkets and such asking if your registered to vote?  Well, for some strange reason the same people that want to force people to have an ID to vote also don't want to see people register to vote.  

 

Or, better yet, they put in the way roadblocks such as reducing the days available to vote (no more early voting to keep the number of people at the polls on election day down to a reasonable number), limiting the number of polling places (for some reason in primarily Democratic gerrymandered or minority districts).

 

If they were to remove most or all of these limitations and expand the ease of voting (more places, more time), then perhaps there could be widespread agreement about the need for a Voter ID -- which, again, does not solve any real voter issues since in-person voting (the only form of vote fraud that a Voter ID would eliminate and one that constitutes less than 0.000001% of all voter fraud in the past ten years).

 

Then again, the only reason why Republicans push so hard for such measures (and include gerrymandering districts in this) is that if they had no choice but to campaign on ideas alone, there would more than likely be no more Republican party.

 

T

You must have been in a coma during the last election. I forgive you for your obvious ignorance to the matter but the Republicans won an overwhelming majority in the last election with no voter id laws and early voting in place because everyone was fed up with Obama's lies and realized they were better off under a Republican controlled congress. Yet again you go to prove my point that Democrats have no legitimate argument against voter ID thus turn to subversion and distraction. Much like Democrat politics, they don't know how to run things or how anything actually works, they only know how to make others look bad for what the Democrats screw up. Everyone is STILL blaming Nixon for starting the Vietnam War when he inherited that crap from Johnson(Democrat). Everyone is STILL blaming Bush® for the sub-prime mortgage crisis even though it was Carter(D) and Clinton(D) policies that caused it.

 

Edit: Oh, by the way, Republicans have only been against private groups registering voters when there is a serious cause for concern. The most high profile case I can remember is ACORN who was caught multiple times processing fraudulent voter registrations.

[TMYW 61]

...and all I see is someone who has done nothing to refudiate what I said.

 

 

Oh noes! That malapropism by that Alaskan bimbo has spread.