Blue Origin Aerospace (updates)

[DocM]

Ahem...

 

 

 

Tory Bruno = CEO of United Launch Alliance (ULA), a joint venture of Boeing and Lockheed Martin.  Their upcoming Vulcan-Centaur launcher will use Blue's BE-4 engine in the first stage, IF it ever ships. 

 

[Skiver Veteran]

I don't like to make assumptions but if they aren't flight engines, what are they? Just Engines to be put on a test stand and then scrapped?

BO have a very different development program to SpaceX though right? SpaceX is all about throwing almost ready stuff up in the air and learning rather than the more traditional approach from BO who will test and improve over and over before these things ever go near an actual rocket?

[DocM]

On 27/07/2021 at 04:36, Skiver said:

I don't like to make assumptions but if they aren't flight engines, what are they? Just Engines to be put on a test stand and then scrapped?

BO have a very different development program to SpaceX though right? SpaceX is all about throwing almost ready stuff up in the air and learning rather than the more traditional approach from BO who will test and improve over and over before these things ever go near an actual rocket?

SpaceX is definitely willing to test-break-fix-test again, but helping this is that their computational fluid dynamics (CFD) systems are world-class. Back in 2015 they gave a presentation at an NVIDIA conference that was impressive.  Imagine today...

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by DocM

[DocM]

Maybe they should just get New Glenn flying first?

 

1) JARVIS, a reusable stainless steel upper stage/payload module for New Glenn.

 

2) Bezos has hired a big-time lawyer to essentially gut the Outer Space Treaty's ban on claiming ownership of bodies in space.

 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/blue-origin-is-developing-reusable-second-stage-other-advanced-projects/?comments=1

 

[IsItPluggedIn]

From what I read in the article it looks like Jeff has acknowledged that the current environment is not conducive to speed or innovation. So he separated this new team so they can do some good work.

 

"Sources said Bezos has walled off parts of the second-stage development program from the rest of Blue Origin and told its leaders to innovate in an environment unfettered by rigorous management and paperwork processes."

 

That is a good sign for BO that he has acknowledged that, but bad that he has not done it for the whole business. Im guessing this is a test, if it plays out well he may roll it out to many other parts of the business.

 

Hopefully he hasnt reduced staff on the current deployment so it is not delayed further and they can start flying. Also it would be good if they had a similar team for the BE-4, it needs to be finished yesterday.

[DocM]

So, after the US General Accounting Office denied Blue Origin and Dynetics appeals of SpaceX winning the HLS lunar lander contract, Jeff Bezos has gone fully off his cracker and sued NASA

 

https://spacenews.com/blue-origin-sues-nasa-over-human-landing-system-contract/

 

The criticism, in and out of the industry, has been withering (read the Space News comments 😵 )

 

Now some of Blue's line and lead engineers for the HLS program are jumping overboard. Some left earlier. 

 

Nitin Arora was Blue:s Mission Architecture and Integration Lead, Human Landing System. He bailed last Friday, hiring in at SpaceX. LinkedIn...

 

Former SpaceXer Lauren Lyons (from the Falcon Heavy maiden flight, Demo 1, Demo 2 streams) moved to Blue Origin as Lead of Requirements, Verification, Validation, and Certification for Artemis Human Landing System National Team, and Lead Systems Engineer in their Advanced Development Programs division. She left for Firefly Aerospace in June.

 

There are a lot of Blue Origin people criticizing Bezos' actions,  and rumors their National Team partners aren't happy either.

 

 

 

[DocM]

On a more constructive front,

 

Blue Origin is building their own reusable stainless steel upper stage - Jarvis. The project is being handled by a 'tiger team' for rapid R&D.

 

 

On the BE-4 front...ULA's Tory Bruno wants his engines.

 

 

[IsItPluggedIn]

I see a bunch of people saying that the second stage will land vertically like Starship, but the second stage of New Glenn will have vacuum engines, they wont work well at sea level. 

 

I dont think it will be big enough for 2 x BE-3U and a couple of BE-4s, also they run different propellant.

Edited August 25, 2021 by IsItPluggedIn

[DocM]

On 24/08/2021 at 20:36, IsItPluggedIn said:

I see a bunch of people saying that the second stage will land vertically like Starship, but the second stage of New Glenn will have vacuum engines, they wont work well at sea level. 

 

I dont think it will be big enough for 2 x BE-3U and a couple of BE-4s, also they run different propellant.

More likely they'd mount 1-3 BE-3 (New Shepard engine) for landings.  About 490 kN (110,000 lb-f) each. 

[DocM]

William Shatter to SPAAAACE!!

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/blue-origin-william-shatner-jeff-bezos-space-new-shepard-october-2021-9

 

Quote

 

At 90 years old, William Shatner would be the oldest man to ever be launched into space. 

 

•  "Star Trek" actor William Shatner is reportedly going to space aboard a Blue Origin rocket. 

 

• The 15-minute civilian flight is expected to take place in October, TMZ reported. 

 

• Sources close to Shatner told TMZ that the flight will be filmed for an upcoming documentary. 

>

 

 

[mudslag]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/21-current-former-blue-origin-130536072.html

Quote

 

Open letter from former and current Blue Origin employees accuses Jeff Bezos of sacrificing safety in an effort to win the billionaire space race - and creating a toxic, sexist work culture along the way

 

An open letter written by a group describing itself as 21 former and current Blue Origin employees on Thursday accused Jeff Bezos and the company of sacrificing safety in an effort to win the space race against other billionaires and of creating a company culture rife with sexism.

"Competing with other billionaires - and 'making progress for Jeff'' - seemed to take precedence over safety concerns that would have slowed down the schedule," Alexandra Abrams, the former head of Blue Origin employee communications, wrote alongside the anonymous current and former Blue Origin employees.

The letter accused Blue Origin and its founder, Bezos, of fostering a culture of toxicity and sexism. It said employee concerns regarding the safety of several of Blue Origin's rockets had been suppressed as the billionaire raced to compete with SpaceX CEO Elon Musk and Virgin Galactic's founder, Richard Branson. In response to the letter which was sent to the Federal Aviation Administration, an FAA spokesperson told Insider the agency is taking the allegations seriously and is reviewing the information.

 

 

[DocM]

On 01/10/2021 at 01:31, mudslag said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/21-current-former-blue-origin-130536072.html

 

Excrement-hit-fan

 

 

 

[DocM]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/01/jeff-bezos-blue-origin-talent-exodus-ceo-pushed-return-to-office.html

 

Quote

 

Turmoil at Bezos’ Blue Origin: Talent exodus came after CEO’s push for full return to the office

 

KEY POINTS

 

• Attrition at Jeff Bezos’ Blue Origin has steadily climbed, passing 20% for this year, multiple people familiar with the situation told CNBC.

 

• Multiple people told CNBC that the departures are a direct reflection on the leadership of CEO Bob Smith.

 

• The central sticking point, and cause cited by many people who recently left, was Smith’s strong push this year for all Blue Origin employees to return to the office.

 

• During Smith’s tenure the company has struggled to deliver on multiple major programs, highlighted by Blue Origin’s chief operating officer leaving late last year.

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

On 25/09/2021 at 20:32, DocM said:

William Shatter to SPAAAACE!!

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/blue-origin-william-shatner-jeff-bezos-space-new-shepard-october-2021-9

 

 

Confirmed...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58792761

 

I'm really surprised Bezos is allowing this.  Shatner's 90 years old... If anything happens to him during the flight, Blue Origin will NEVER recover from the PR disaster...

 

Send someone from Discovery... None of the Trek fans will give a damn if they get blown to bits!   (Kidding!)

[IsItPluggedIn]

On 05/10/2021 at 06:54, FloatingFatMan said:

Confirmed...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58792761

 

I'm really surprised Bezos is allowing this.  Shatner's 90 years old... If anything happens to him during the flight, Blue Origin will NEVER recover from the PR disaster...

 

Send someone from Discovery... None of the Trek fans will give a damn if they get blown to bits!   (Kidding!)

 

BO doesnt seem to care about PR at the moment.

 

[DocM]

NS-18 flight

Bill Shatner at apogee

 

[DocM]

More Blue Origin BE-4 engine follies...

 

 

🙄

[DocM]

Blue Origin BE-4: flight engine #1

 

ULA's Vulcan launcher booster will use 2 of these.

 

Cycle: oxygen-rich staged combustion

Propellants: liquid methane (LCH4) + liquid oxygen (LOX)

Thrust: ~540,000 pound-force (lb-f), 240 metric ton-force (T-f)

Reusable?: No (Block 2 for Blue Origin's own New Glenn launcher should be. Check back in 2024/2025)

 

[FloatingFatMan]

So, the flying di** has a prematuring issue!

 

 

Well, at least no-one got goo-ed...

[DocM]

The good news is the launch abort system works, getting the capsule down intact. Shaken, but not blended.

 

The bad news is that their single BE-3 ate itself. As Scott Manley said, it exhibited an engine-rich exhaust.

 

With multiple engines (5+), and protection between the engines to contain such events, you can lose one and keep going. See Falcon 9, Saturn V, Blue's own New Glenn, etc. 

[IsItPluggedIn]

On top of that there is also some lost confidence in the solution, which may reduce demand for passengers. 

 

Do we know how many first stages they have? 

 

If one, I wonder how long it will take to build a new one to get up and running again.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

On 12/09/2022 at 17:09, IsItPluggedIn said:

On top of that there is also some lost confidence in the solution, which may reduce demand for passengers. 

 

Do we know how many first stages they have? 

 

If one, I wonder how long it will take to build a new one to get up and running again.

Two I think.  New Shepard 3 which was lost today (this booster doesn't carry people) and NS4 which does the crew flights.

[DocM]

On 12/09/2022 at 19:42, Jim K said:

Two I think.  New Shepard 3 which was lost today (this booster doesn't carry people) and NS4 which does the crew flights.

Correct.

 

PM-1 crashed on landing

 

PM-2 was retired after the in-flight abort test

 

PM-3 failed in this 9th flight 

 

PM-4 is in the barn with 8 flights

[SteveL]

On 13/09/2022 at 00:09, IsItPluggedIn said:

On top of that there is also some lost confidence in the solution, which may reduce demand for passengers. 

 

 

Yes, I think that this is the major issue here. We usually bash government agencies for their burocratic approaches and less than stellar rapidity, but think about it, when Falcon-9 Crew capsule failed, Nasa stopped SpaceX for a long time until they were satisfied with the corrective actions. And Boeing is still bleeding for the errors committed. I don't know if BO has any measure in place and if there is a third party who reviews their solutions. If there is none then you need to trust them. Not a good marketing situation.

[DocM]

On 13/09/2022 at 04:25, SteveL said:

Yes, I think that this is the major issue here. We usually bash government agencies for their burocratic approaches and less than stellar rapidity, but think about it, when Falcon-9 Crew capsule failed, Nasa stopped SpaceX for a long time until they were satisfied with the corrective actions.

 

Catch-up note for those who weren't following those events

 

The Crew Dragon Demo-1 vehicle explosion during post-flight tests ooccurred April 20, 2019. By May 28 SpaceX had completed the root cause analysis and, with NASA, was already developing a mitigation. The cause was novel; a previously unidentified incompatibility between nitrogen tetroxide and titanium used in a valve. They had been used together for decades around the world, but under certain conditions...

 

Crew Dragon Demo-2 flew with a crew May 20, 2020.

 

On 13/09/2022 at 04:25, SteveL said:

And Boeing is still bleeding for the errors committed.

 

So far it has cost them almost $1 billion out of their own pocket (Commercial Crew is a firm fixed price contract), so Boeing's not getting one red cent until they complete an Orbital Flight Test milestone to NASAs satisfaction. This is unlikely to occur until sometime in 2023. This means they won't be able to fly there first operational mission, Starliner 1, until late 2023 or early 2024.

 

On 13/09/2022 at 04:25, SteveL said:

I don't know if BO has any measure in place and if there is a third party who reviews their solutions.

 

As the licensing body for commercial spaceflight, FAA has already started an accident investigation.

 

On 13/09/2022 at 04:25, SteveL said:

If there is none then you need to trust them. Not a good marketing situation.

 

The only thing that seems trustworthy about Blue Origin is their capsule's launch abort system.

 

With BE-3 eating itself, and the BE-4 for Vulcan  spending so much time in  Development Hell, it'll take several perfect flights of both  before trust is restored.

Edited September 13, 2022 by DocM