House blown apart by SWAT team attempting to catch shoplifter who shot at police.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

 I really hope next time this guy will barge in your house and you will make him chocolate chip cookies.

 

...don't forget the milk!

 

Cookies ... shoot at the police ... milk.  Rinse and repeat.

[FloatingFatMan]

 I really hope next time this guy will barge in your house and you will make him chocolate chip cookies.

 

Is your usual response to criticism online to wish harm on the one criticising?

 

My, aren't you nice.  

[Xilo]

 

 

 

The primary purpose of SWAT is to provide a systematic approach to saving lives in accordance with the priorities of life and the specific standards set forth herein, in concert with the totality of circumstances presented.  While life safety is a priority of SWAT, the specific circumstances will dictate the level of force necessary to adequately protect the public and the officers involved. Resolution of some incidents may require the specific application of various levels of force, up to and including, deadly force.

A shoplifter with a handgun vs SWAT with body armor doesn't require much force to apprehend. If you watch the video, the amount of damage to the house is disgusting all for one guy with a handgun. No one was in danger. The amount of forced use was completely uncalled for.

 

He needs to get a damn good lawyer and sue the pants off the police force.

[Arachno 1D]

 

The primary purpose of SWAT is to provide a systematic approach to saving lives in accordance with the priorities of life and the specific standards set forth herein, in concert with the totality of circumstances presented.  While life safety is a priority of SWAT, the specific circumstances will dictate the level of force necessary to adequately protect the public and the officers involved. Resolution of some incidents may require the specific application of various levels of force, up to and including, deadly force.

 

Nothing in there says anything about doing least amount of damage to structures.  The criminal will be held liable for the damages done to the house since he was the one at fault.  Obviously, chances are he'll never have the resources to pay for the damages but that will not prevent the insurance company from hounding him until he dies.  

Containment- Achieved

Negotiate with the offender - Achieved

Release of Hostages - Achieved

 

At this point there are no people are in danger as the area has been evacuated ergo no escalation is needed.They could and should have use long range weaponry i.e. snipers and/or tear gas if and when the perp fired upon them.It sounds very much like they escalated the situation beyond what was reasonable and failed to explore alternative solutions given the circumstances.

 

 

[MikeChipshop Member]

They need to work on their patience.

Agreed. It's kind of pointless cutting off all that stuff to the house if you're only going to wait less than a day ffs.

What it boils down to, is the polices heavy handed tactics caused damage to an innocent mans house, they should compensate him, end of story.

[jakem1]

Only in America...would people defend this level of stupidity.

[Memphis]

Only in America...would people defend this level of stupidity.

 

 

Its just crazy to me to see people defend these heavy handed tactics. Someone just wanted to play with new shiny toys.

[+devHead Subscriber²]

So, he barged into another home and opened fire on police.  That just elevated things beyond getting busted for shoplifting.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Only in America...would people defend this level of stupidity.

I agree it's ridiculous, but I disagree with the "only in America" part. Over zealousness affects all countries at some point.

[exotoxic]

I wonder how the story/comments would turn out if he had been hit and had his leg blown off or something.

[Flawedspirit]

You Americans never bore me.

 

In Germany your typical shoplifter would never even have a handgun and surly no para military police force would destroy whole buildings to take out one man.

 

Instead of destroying houses, maybe you should change your laws, so that guns would not be as readily available as water in your country ?

Careful not to push their "gun control button." The next three pages will be full of vitriol about how they need to protect themselves from criminals/the government/terrorists, someone responds that that's only true because everyone has guns, things will get out of hand, the mods lock the topic and someone gets banned. Happens like clockwork.

[webeagle12]

Is your usual response to criticism online to wish harm on the one criticising?

 

My, aren't you nice.  

 

Look at yourself in a mirror first. That is after that guy will splash your brains all over it.

 

Its ok to talk until its happen to you, then your tune will change.

[JustGeorge]

The house was aiding and abetting a criminal. It had to be dealt with.

 

"Get on the ground! I said get on the ground house!"

[FloatingFatMan]

Look at yourself in a mirror first. That is after that guy will splash your brains all over it.

 

Its ok to talk until its happen to you, then your tune will change.

 

I've been mugged in my time, by a guy with a knife. I took it from him and introduced it back to him, pointy end first, in his leg.

[+Red King Subscriber²]

Reminds me of the case where SWAT threw a grenade and injured a baby - the parents had a 1 million dollar bill (or something similar) because USA.

[webeagle12]

I've been mugged in my time, by a guy with a knife. I took it from him and introduced it back to him, pointy end first, in his leg.

 

Ok you are right there if you can take a guy yourself, but there people that couldn't/wouldn't do that. All i'm saying is that guy crossed a fine line when he start shooting back. Things can be replaced, human life cant. Although police department should repair all damage at their own expense.  

[FloatingFatMan]

Reminds me of the case where SWAT threw a grenade and injured a baby - the parents had a 1 million dollar bill (or something similar) because USA.

 

Yeah, I remember that one. It was sickening...  And there were still people who defended the moron who did it.

Ok you are right there if you can take a guy yourself, but there people that couldn't/wouldn't do that. All i'm saying is that guy crossed a fine line when he start shooting back. Things can be replaced, human life cant. 

 

Which is exactly why, after shutting off the utilities, they should have just waited the guy out.. Eventually, he'd have surrendered and there'd have been no need to risk any lives, and no need to destroy that house.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

Careful not to push their "gun control button." The next three pages will be full of vitriol about how they need to protect themselves from criminals/the government/terrorists, someone responds that that's only true because everyone has guns, things will get out of hand, the mods lock the topic and someone gets banned. Happens like clockwork.

 

Here's is the correct thread for your sarcasm - https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1144670-big-gun-control-debate/

 

 

On topic -

 

After reading several articles and viewing the pictures their is no doubt in my mind that the police went too far in their response.  In fact, I cannot understand how anyone could think the actions by the police/SWAT were acceptable.  Yes, there was an armed man in the house, but he was surrounded by professional law enforcement personnel and I doubt any of them were just standing in the open waiting to be shot.  Given time and some discussion with the individual, I find it hard to believe he wouldn't surrender.  Or he may have decided to take his own life.  Unleashing a barrage of projectiles of that magnitude is simply inexcusable. 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

A shoplifter with a handgun vs SWAT with body armor doesn't require much force to apprehend. If you watch the video, the amount of damage to the house is disgusting all for one guy with a handgun. No one was in danger. The amount of forced use was completely uncalled for.

 

He needs to get a damn good lawyer and sue the pants off the police force.

 

I've already said earlier in this thread that "I haven't commented about the actions of the SWAT.  From the Law Offices of my Armchair it would appear excessive ... but then again I wasn't there."

 

I'm just correcting incorrect posts.

 

Though I will comment about bringing a lawsuit against the police.  Why?  Who pays the police ... the citizens ... so you are basically suing them.  If anything an investigation and an after action report (which I'm sure occurs anyway) should be done to see what could have been done better.  You know...lessons learned.

 

Suing them wouldn't solve a thing.  Sue the criminal.

 

Containment- Achieved

Negotiate with the offender - Achieved

Release of Hostages - Achieved

 

At this point there are no people are in danger as the area has been evacuated ergo no escalation is needed.They could and should have use long range weaponry i.e. snipers and/or tear gas if and when the perp fired upon them.It sounds very much like they escalated the situation beyond what was reasonable and failed to explore alternative solutions given the circumstances.

 

 

 

 

 

People were in danger as the criminal was shooting from the house.  Bullets, placed correctly (either through skill or blind luck) can kill a person.

[spaceelf]

Which is exactly why, after shutting off the utilities, they should have just waited the guy out.. Eventually, he'd have surrendered and there'd have been no need to risk any lives, and no need to destroy that house.

I'm not defending anyone here but we still don't know if there was anything in the house that made the explosion worse than it should've been.  The cost to keep a SWAT team in play is quite large and people in the surrounding area were at risk.  Once people start shooting nobody knows what the collateral damage could be.

 

Do I think it was poorly handled?  Yes.  But things are downhill from the moment SWAT is called in in the first place, so I don't see the point in handwaving about who could've done what.  ###### happens.

[blank]

haha they really messed that house up.

 

At least they got the crook

[Emn1ty]

I don't see anyone trying to defend the criminal, just criticizing the cops for their usual heavy handed response.

 

If you think this is how cops usually respond to things, then it's a miracle it's even news. It's in the news because it's unusual. Don't try and paint a picture that's not true.

[webeagle12]

Containment- Achieved

Negotiate with the offender - Achieved

Release of Hostages - Achieved

 

At this point there are no people are in danger as the area has been evacuated ergo no escalation is needed.They could and should have use long range weaponry i.e. snipers and/or tear gas if and when the perp fired upon them.It sounds very much like they escalated the situation beyond what was reasonable and failed to explore alternative solutions given the circumstances.

 

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

If you think this is how cops usually respond to things, then it's a miracle it's even news. It's in the news because it's unusual. Don't try and paint a picture that's not true.

 

It might not be every cops in the US, but we're seeing more and more of these excessive responses lately.

[Rohdekill]

That's a pretty ###### system. I'm not okay with getting my house blown up by the police just because I have insurance.

But you're perfectly OK with a tax increase for everyone in your state, including yourself, to cover repairs?