[OFFICIAL] Windows 10 Insider Program

[sjaak327]

No. I've had it with immaturity and sense of entitlement.

 

You and I both want Windows 10 to be the best version of Windows yet. Microsoft are closely listening to any usable feedback they get. I.e. bug reports, detailed suggestions, constructive criticism. Pretty sure they feel the same way I do about 'start menu is broken, plz fix or else' bitching. Again, this is a tech preview - things will break or be unfinished. Have some patience for Zarquon's sake.

I am having patience, again the way they are going is what is being the problem here, not the actual functionality of the start menu /screen now.

 

I see a clear change in direction between the previous builds and the latest one, one that can only lead to failure, and Microsoft getting a lot of criticism once again.

 

Of course if you refuse to read the points that are being made, and try to pose it off as immature, or sense of entitlement or even whinging, than I guess the concept of this tech preview is an utter failure.

 

Views that are not supported by you, or views that SEEM premature, but that are quite clearly based upon the direction the software is going are apparently being disregarded on the basis of captain obvious stuff like "it isn't finished yet" or "this is beta"

 

My simple point here is, it doesn't matter that this is a beta and therefore far from finished, it is the direction that they have changed in between builds that is being criticized and the idle hope that we could adjust it ever so slightly.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Have you read some of the posts in the feedback tool in Windows 10? A lot of those people do not grasp the meaning of 'technical preview'.

 

There is a major difference between complaining for the sake of complaining and constructive feedback. Microsoft are after the latter, not incessant whining about how the new start menu doesn't work the way (yet) user x wants it to. Be patient, report bugs, post constructive criticism and wait for improvements in future builds. But for the love of Zarquon, quit your bitching already.

 

Totally agree. They should close these things back to invite only, keep the riff raff out.

The signal to noise ratio on the feedback must be immense!

[PGHammer]

spark and others - the biggest difference between the smaller screens and the larger ones is entirely based on screen size.  You can have identical input methods in both cases (Android and Windows 10 are THE examples of this in terms of operating systems); however, in both cases, screen size is most important.  The issue with the newer apparently-XAML-driven mini-Start is scaling - it doesn't scale well in either direction.

 

Do any other operating systems use XAML to the degree that Windows 10 does?  That could be well part of the adjustment period - what is foreign to Windows Insiders is also foreign (to a large extent) to Microsoft itself; we (as users) are used to fixed-degree scaling - not dynamic scaling, mostly due to dynamic scaling being a real bear to get right.  And this is an OS that scales from screen sizes (in inches) to screen sizes (in feet).

 

I just hope that Microsoft can get the scaling right in mini-Start - if for no other reason than to give the naysayers a major dose of egg-wearing.

[timbo_sf2]

This is weird. While almost all branch are working for 100xx build, fbl_awesome is still stuck in 99xx number. I wonder if they are the one who is responsible for UX feedbacks (like what folks complaining here)

 

[Ice_Blue]

I just hope that Microsoft can get the scaling right in mini-Start - if for no other reason than to give the naysayers a major dose of egg-wearing.

 

Oh, I'll be glad to wear that egg if touch for tablets is as good as it is in 8.1.

[DConnell Member]

Oh, I'll be glad to wear that egg if they leave touch as it is in 8.1.

 

Ditto. I'd be thrilled for my fears to be unwarranted.

[Steven P. Administrators]

This is weird. While almost all branch are working for 100xx build, fbl_awesome is still stuck in 99xx number. I wonder if they are the one who is responsible for UX feedbacks (like what folks complaining here)

Maybe builds after 10xxx are feature locked, and as you say, 9931 branch is still doing UX feedback?

[George P Global Moderator]

I didn't expect to see a 993x build, maybe it's a tweaked 9926 that we could get next but with the feature set we have now, while the 100xx branches are moving on to newer versions and newer features.

[+Warwagon MVC]

You're kidding right? You know how many issues that thing had? Besides not being expandable, or all that customizable, let me refresh your mind...

 

But for 95% of the population it worked just fine.

[Sszecret Veteran]

But for 95% of the population it worked just fine.

 

And the majority of that percent of the population used it just to scroll through the mess that was All programs. The rest of the menu didn't frankly matter, because too few were actually using that pin to start functionality or the jump lists. 

[Dot Matrix]

But for 95% of the population it worked just fine.

There's that "worked just fine" excuse again. "Just fine" may be "good enough", but that's no reason to move on to something new, and better.

[Guest]

Well... its not even a consumer preview so don't expect the updates to be like the OSX Yosemite DP ones, you have to expect huge changes and overhauls.

 

I expected them to change and update their 8.1 built-in apps. Not make completely new ones that throw everything about Modern / Metro down the toilet.

[PotatoAlchemist]

Noticed that snapping works a bit differently in tablet mode. It sort of works like in Windows 8.1, where moving the sides between two apps would automatically adjust it for both of them. Although it's slightly clunky, because size adjustment doesn't get previewed, only for the one that's size gets retracted. The other slightly annoying side is that it's following exclusively with Windows 8.1's minimum width size, so the minimum width would be 1/3 of the screen. At least for 16:9 in landscape mode.

 

Also, in tablet mode, you can't snap an app to one side, then automatically snap a new app that you'd launch from Start. Since instead it would just start in "fullscreen" - with the taskbar on, of course, that's why the quotation marks, which would place the previously snapped application to be "fullscreen" once more. Even if you do get two apps snapped, switching to a different one, then switching back already breaks from the previous apps to be snapped, so they'd automatically revert to "fullscreen" mode already.

 

?Also²?, why is OneNote having a titlebar, when there's already a Universal App specific one present? Unless they'd get merged, it's just wasting screenspace. Maybe they will get the window buttons along with back present in the app itself. Or they would just hide it away altogether. Since at this point, Settings has a back button when you switch to a category. This should be merged into the titlebar or taskbar, depending on the mode.

Edited January 27, 2015 by PotatoAlchemist

[+Warwagon MVC]

There's that "worked just fine" excuse again. "Just fine" may be "good enough", but that's no reason to move on to something new, and better.

 

As opposed to going from the "All programs" to the cluster ###### that was the Windows 8 program list. I'll admit in Windows 10 it's much better but in Windows 8 ... DA FUK.

 

And the majority of that percent of the population used it just to scroll through the mess that was All programs. The rest of the menu didn't frankly matter, because too few were actually using that pin to start functionality or the jump lists. 

 

How was it a mess? It was alphabetized and not expanded. It was easy to find what you want. There was also a search so you could just search for it in a nice little box in the corner. If you want to talk about Mess ... lets talk about the Windows 8 program list.

[PGHammer]

So why is the StartScreen (which is ALSO sorted in alpha order by default) complained about?

 

Basically, folks got used to the Start menu's foibles, and didn't want to learn something new.  (I get that much.)  Also, some folks don't use alpha-order sorting - instead, they use other sort methods - including manual sorting - which was popular in XP and earlier, and especially NT4; you can't do that with the StartScreen - yet.

 

However, coming across as a neo-Luddite - and especially on any sort of tech site - is extremely bad; therefore, they felt they had to cover that up, and blow smoke.

 

Instead of looking like a neo-Luddite, they come across as a hypocrite - which, at least to me, is far worse.

[Sszecret Veteran]

How was it a mess? It was alphabetized and not expanded. It was easy to find what you want. There was also a search so you could just search for it in a nice little box in the corner. If you want to talk about Mess ... lets talk about the Windows 8 program list.

 

And how many people actually used the search box, despite the fact that it was right in front of them? I'm not talking about power users, I'm talking about the plain 'ol consumer. The program list in W8 was also alphabetized. Yes, a little messy at first, but hey corrected it in Windows 8.1. Semantic zoom was frankly a better way of getting to the app you needed, instead of scrolling inside this tiny little rectangle in the corner of the screen. The damn thing didn't even scale properly on high resolution displays, so it was a combination of scrolling and tiny icons. How on earth is that a good thing? 

 

Search worked as before on Windows 8. 

 

I think the problem is actually the fact that people were using Start as more than it actually was meant to be, which was a dashboard-like view of what was going on at the moment (via live tiles), and a few frequently accessed apps, not a dump of everything they install on the PC. 

[HawkMan]

As opposed to going from the "All programs" to the cluster ###### that was the Windows 8 program list. I'll admit in Windows 10 it's much better but in Windows 8 ... DA FUK.

 

 

How was it a mess? It was alphabetized and not expanded. It was easy to find what you want. There was also a search so you could just search for it in a nice little box in the corner. If you want to talk about Mess ... lets talk about the Windows 8 program list.

 

you don't use all programs anyway...

[DConnell Member]

As opposed to going from the "All programs" to the cluster ###### that was the Windows 8 program list. I'll admit in Windows 10 it's much better but in Windows 8 ... DA FUK.

 

 

How was it a mess? It was alphabetized and not expanded. It was easy to find what you want. There was also a search so you could just search for it in a nice little box in the corner. If you want to talk about Mess ... lets talk about the Windows 8 program list.

 

All Apps was a dramatic improvement - no more nested submenus that you had to navigate through. Everything was in plain sight for easy skimming.

[+Warwagon MVC]

 no more nested submenus that you had to navigate through.

 

Thanks you, that's the word I was looking for "Nested submenus" .... I MUCH MUCH prefer that.

[DConnell Member]

Thanks you, that's the word I was looking for "Nested submenus" .... I MUCH MUCH prefer

 

It suits you, but I always found it a constant battle to find what I needed in there. I prefer it all neatly laid out and sortable in multiple ways.

 

All Programs was like having all your tools in drawers. Easy to find if you remember where what you want is located, but more time consuming otherwise.

 

All Apps is like having them hanging from pegs on your wall. You just have to do a quick scan to find what you need.

 

The new All Apps incorporates elements of both approaches - flat presentation like Win8, but in-line like the old Win7 menu so you have to scroll. And scroll . . . . . and scroll. It's a losing combination.

[+Warwagon MVC]

It suits you, but I always found it a constant battle to find what I needed in there. I prefer it all neatly laid out and sortable in multiple ways.

 

All Programs was like having all your tools in drawers. Easy to find if you remember where what you want is located, but more time consuming otherwise.

 

All Apps is like having them hanging from pegs on your wall. You just have to do a quick scan to find what you need.

 

The new All Apps incorporates elements of both approaches - flat presentation like Win8, but in-line like the old Win7 menu so you have to scroll. And scroll . . . . . and scroll. It's a losing combination.

 

The problem with Windows 8 all apps is that there was SOOOOOOO much on the screen it took me longer than usual to focus on what I was looking for. With the start menu it was just a simple list of text.

[DConnell Member]

The problem with Windows 8 all apps is that there was SOOOOOOO much on the screen it took me longer than usual to focus on what I was looking for. With the start menu it was just a simple list of text.

 

Which highlights why we need a choice. Neither approach works for everyone. Foisting an in-line list on me is as bad as forcing the wide view on you. For the first time since 1995 I've got a program presentation that actually suits my needs - I don't want to lose it after only 2 years.

[Dot Matrix]

Sorry, but an application launcher shouldn't be hiding anything in nested menus. That's just a horrible way to do business.

[HawkMan]

The problem with Windows 8 all apps is that there was SOOOOOOO much on the screen it took me longer than usual to focus on what I was looking for. With the start menu it was just a simple list of text.

 

ever tried zooming out ?

[PGHammer]

you don't use all programs anyway...

Then use WinKey+ the first letter of the program being searched for to narrow the list; that has worked since the Developer Preview of 8 (from the StartScreen).  It was well-documented in this same thread - I even gave examples on how to use it in my own posts.  And it uses the keyboard - not a mouse OR touch interface; how hard is that for desktop users?