[OFFICIAL] Windows 10 Insider Program

[x.iso]

Considering 10041 is the most buggy build released yet, im surprised this has hit the slow ring at all. 9926 was flawless build wise, everything worked, and worked better than it did in Windows 7, 8 and 8.1. 

10041 seems to have a plethora or errors show for everyone, from graphics errors, start menu errors, shutdown/reboot errors, install errors... the list goes on. Im even more surprised that M$ didn't fix the mail, contacts and people tiles before sending it out on the slow ring. 

I honestly hope these are fixed in the next build, whether it be flast or slow rings, but 10041 for the most part is horrible. 

it's complete opposite for me. 10041 works much better, many annoyances fixed while 9926 had lots of problems

[spaceelf]

10041s working great on my desktop but ###### on my laptop, so I'm not sure which I'd pick if I had to choose.

 

I might set the laptop back to 8.1 until things clean up a bit.

[Dashel]

10041 outright locks up more for me, but its more solid beyond that compared to 9926.  Can't wait for them to kill off the Notification Area and move that up as well.

[SekaiStory]

New Files icon, new Task View icon. 

New Notes in Notification Center

Flashlight in Notification Center 

Seen in Microsoft Windows 10 for devs video: Notification Center

 

Really loving those round icons and tighter margins on Windows Phone and the new Windows 10 Apps, works really well and makes it look like something professional, clean and still Microsoft, without having that "for children" feel to it from Windows 8

[BajiRav]

Imagine there will be more problems as they add more consumer related features. But isn't that the entire point of the technical preview?

Absolutely, anyone saying otherwise - well why are they reading this thread?

[spaceelf]

Well my laptop is going back to 8.1 until better working builds happen, anyway.

[Ian W]

Options are only needed to an extent, I still don't see the problem you are trying to solve, since it was built on top of a the full screen all apps and is tied to its demise. Leave the gesture for touch, but there is no reason for hotcorner on m+k.

Then why did Microsoft add the options / features at all?

One other nice feature that the Start screen provided for mouse users is that the interface would scroll after the mouse cursor moved toward an edge of the screen. This not only let one scroll through "All Apps" but it also allowed users to scroll through pinned items. This is not, as far as I know, something that the new Start menu in Windows 10 provides.

 

Transparency by no means conflicts with any sensible 'Modern' guideline, I assume our disagreement is semantic.  'Modern' has even more distracting backgrounds for start (including transparency) than what we see here.  Nor are actions supposed to be hidden by default.  That is what was wrong with the Win8 interpretation of modern.  WP is the guide, not Win8.  And Win10 handles it in that fashion, as well as the actions which can be on or off depending on the app.

Here is a set of PowerPoint slides shown during BUILD 2012 that showcases Microsoft's intentions with the Modern UI design language. The principles are "content before chrome," "doing more with less," and creating a consistent design language that brings users with "confidence, comfort, and familiarity."

 

The new menu is no less easy to access via touch or mouse, but without the messy and hard to scan layout of tiling it full screen.

Larger targets are objectively easier to interact with a mouse, stylus, or touch. Windows 10 decreases the size of targets for applications listed within "All Apps."

Below is a comparison of the size of application targets for "All Apps" in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.

 

• The Windows 8.1 target (top) is 283 pixels wide and 46 pixels tall.
• The Windows 8.1 target with the "show more apps" option enabled (middle) is 283 pixels wide and 36 pixels tall.
• The Windows 10 target (bottom) is 212 pixels wide and 39 pixels tall.

As you can see the Windows 10 target is less ideal for mouse, stylus, and touch input.

Categories allow the user to customize the layout to his or her desire to prevent the interface from being messy and hard to scan. The semantic zoom and "Show more apps in Apps view" options are useful in this regard.

 

More screen estate doesn't increase discoverability.

The new version of "All Apps" in Windows 10 requires the user to scroll through a list. Utilizing available screen estate exposes a larger amount of applications within the interface. Not only does "All Apps" in Windows 10 decrease the amount of items that can be seen at a time, it also decreases the size of the targets which negatively affects almost all forms of interaction.

 

It also seems to ignore the large issues with Win8s approach - the obsure menus (the down arrow) to access them, the faint highlight for new, then hiding the apps they want behind a wall of modern two headedness?  Decreasing the width on screen is a good thing with a text/list based approach.

I would argue that the obscurity of the interface is largely due to unfamiliarity. The floppy disk icon on the Ribbon, for example, may be unfamiliar to new users of the interface, but its functionality will be known and understood after it is used. Note that Windows 8.1 builds upon the tutorial introduced in Windows 8 to show hints for those unfamiliar with the interface and also introduces a help and support application.

The faint highlight for new applications? The highlight effect doesn't look faint to me

[Dashel]

Here is a set of PowerPoint slides shown during BUILD 2012 that showcases Microsoft's intentions with the Modern UI design language. The principles are "content before chrome," "doing 

 

Categories allow the user to customize the layout to his or her desire to prevent the interface from being messy and hard to scan. The semantic zoom and "Show more apps in Apps view" options are useful in this regard.

 

The new version of "All Apps" in Windows 10 requires the user to scroll through a list. Utilizing available screen estate exposes a larger amount of applications within the interface. Not only does "All Apps" in Windows 10 decrease the amount of items that can be seen at a time, it also decreases the size of the targets which negatively affects almost all forms of interaction.

 

The faint highlight for new applications? The highlight effect doesn't look faint to me

[Ian W]

They added the option cause they screwed the pooch by going with a full screen mode.  No mouser likes hotcorners, gestures, or stupid large hitboxes.  Scrolling with a mouse has never worked very well, particularly on the boundary area.

So having less choice in Windows 10 is a good thing?

 

I assume you can hit the targets on the phone which are smaller than both.  Its a misguided way of saying something is 'easier'.  Maybe for novices but that entire line of thought needs to be tossed.  Ideal is far more than the largest hit area possible.

I don't think it is a misguided way of saying that something is easier. Clicking / tapping / touching a 64x64 icon, for example, would be easier than doing so with one that is 32x32. Obviously this is not the largest hit area possible but it is just an example of how larger things can be easier to interact with, even for experienced users.

 

You are missing forest through the trees regarding Metro and All Apps.  Both Start Screens have a background, and Win8 offers far more distracting choices.  That still isn't 'chrome' though.

I never said that the Start screen backgrounds were chrome. In fact I had never even thought of them as such until you mentioned them.

 

Again, things Win10 is fixing by not competing with the desktop and instead embracing.  I think MS is smart enough not to do that again.  You want a constrained view, adding a wall of text helps nothing.  Let it go.

I have absolutely zero issues with Windows 10 embracing the desktop. What I don't like, however, is that the OS almost completely ignores other forms of interaction other than mouse + keyboard even while in Tablet Mode.

I get the impression you haven't actually used the new menu much.  I don't follow what you are getting at with the doc folder images.

I'm not sure why you get that impression. I don't understand how I can be more clear. The point with the images was not the Documents folder but that the targets for "All Apps" are easier to interact with in Windows 8.1 than in Windows 10 because of their size. The new "All Apps" view in Windows 10 is very much mouse-oriented

[DConnell Member]

They added the option cause they screwed the pooch by going with a full screen mode.  No mouser likes hotcorners, gestures, or stupid large hitboxes.  Scrolling with a mouse has never worked very well, particularly on the boundary area. (We have scroll wheels, make that work right first.  Its no fun getting 'caught' in a touch area)

 

I assume you can hit the targets on the phone which are smaller than both.  Its a misguided way of saying something is 'easier'.  Maybe for novices but that entire line of thought needs to be tossed.  Ideal is far more than the largest hit area.

 

You are missing forest through the trees regarding Metro and All Apps.  Both Start Screens have a background, and Win8 offers far more distracting choices.  That still isn't 'chrome' though.  That is for app devs, not the OS itself.  Again, things Win10 is fixing by not competing with the desktop and instead embracing.  I think MS is smart enough not to do that again.  You want a constrained view for lists, adding a wall of text helps nothing.  Let it go.

 

I get the impression you haven't actually used the new menu much.

 

This mouser loves the hotcorners, gestures and larger targets.

 

And I don't want a "constrained view for lists", or lists at all. I want a full-screen presentation for All Apps. It's far easier to skim the screen with my eyes than scroll through that awful list 10 has for All Apps. A "constrained view" made sense on an 800x600 screen from 1998, or on a phone. Not on a 23" monitor.

[Kyang]

Shouldn't this be put into the, "Great Modern UI Debate" thread?

[PGHammer]

It's like liberals vs. the GOP.  Liberals see the entire GOP as a bunch of neo-con wannabes (despite that the GOP has some folks that are to the left - depending on the issue - of Bill OR Hillary Clinton).  They have been used to being very polar on issues - and thus see everything in polar terms.  (Granted, some conservatives - neo or otherwise - are just as bad; however, that doesn't even fit the majority of the GOP, or even a large minority of conservatives.)

I'm trying to remain centrist on Windows because the center is vast, and consists of products in just about every form-factor there is.  There's nothing singular about the center except it not being an extreme.

The "centrist view" also applies to most existing hardware, and especially existing notebooks.  Look at all those notebooks that came with Windows 7, for example - practically all are candidates for Windows 10 upgrades.  The same applies to a majority of VISTA-era notebooks - remember, my HP dv9700 came from there.  How many of these hard-working (and quite capable) notebooks were forced to retire because their OS wasn't upgraded?  These centrist notebooks now have a future; dust them off, recharge their batteries, and throw Windows 10 on them.  They will be able to run software that didn't even exist when those same notebooks were new, as well as being capable of running all the existing desktop software they were capable of when they retired.  (Remember, the hardware needle didn't move any.)  How's THAT for being "green"?  (Don't environment-friendly policies include keeping poorly-recycled hardware OUT of landfills ad dumps?)

[gohpep]

Notification center looks like something from MS Paint

Technically, you can make anything in Paint

[PGHammer]

"Constrained view" doesn't fit most notebooks, either - and especially not widescreen notebooks, including the ones like mine with a resolution of 1440x900.

 

While widescreen notebooks, Ultrabooks, and even 2-in-1s are more common today, the earliest ones date back to Vista and 7, and (due to display cost) had some atypical resolutions compared to their 4:3 immediate ancestors - such as 1440x900, while most such widescreen displays in the category today that are current production tend to have more typical 1680x1050 or 1920x1080 displays (true 1050p or 1080p) - not that neither-fish-nor-fowl 900p of mine.  However, from 720p up, "constrained view" fits none of it.

 

That's what is getting lost.

[Kaitlynn Genevieve]

Hi Guys,

 

My beta just updated today to build 10041. 

 

My computer doesn't recognize the onboard speakers and even though I installed the drivers the Device Manager says that they aren't installed. Does anyone know a way I  could attempt to fix this or do I have to wait until the next update?

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Hi Guys,

 

My beta just updated today to build 10041. 

 

My computer doesn't recognize the onboard speakers and even though I installed the drivers the Device Manager says that they aren't installed. Does anyone know a way I  could attempt to fix this or do I have to wait until the next update?

 

Realtek?

[+Tyranade Subscriber²]

So I am now Dual Booting 8.1 Pro and Windows 10 10041 and its running great except some issue with the driver failing to release on the gigabyte motherboard software but it still works and im missing the Intel Management Engine driver and the SM Bus Controller and I for the life of me can not remember what that is.

 

 

Anyone know where I can get them for Windows 10?

[BajiRav]

So I am now Dual Booting 8.1 Pro and Windows 10 10041 and its running great except some issue with the driver failing to release on the gigabyte motherboard software but it still works and im missing the Intel Management Engine driver and the SM Bus Controller and I for the life of me can not remember what that is.

 

<<snip>>

 

Anyone know where I can get them for Windows 10?

I have had few instances of windows update putting in a bad driver (esp for Realtek soundcard). I just installed Windows 8.1 driver and it worked.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

It would either be your motherboards INF files for your chipset, 'Intel Management Engine Interface', or 'Intel Raid Storage Technology'. 
Either way, just goto your motherboards website manufacturer, and grab the chipset drivers for those and you should be fine after that. Pretty sure its the INF drivers you want. 

[patseguin Global Moderator]

Shouldn't this be put into the, "Great Modern UI Debate" thread?

Not necessarily imho. The discussion is about Windows 10 TP and a major point of controversy is the GUI. I think we can all agree that the new features are very welcome and exciting. For me, Spartan, Cortana, and Xbox One Streaming are the features that excite me. The one thing that really puts a damper on Windows 10 for me is the really drab, boring, amatuer looking GUI. One of the main reasons Vista and 7 were so talked about and heavily anticipated what it's all new GUI and Aero Glass. I think asesthetics is a huge part of a good OS and it should look really good and be fun to use. I personally like having a window open that appears to be like a pice of glass with buttons that glow. Their reasoning for dumbing down things like the window controls to simpistic 1 color drawings and absolutely atrocious icons really elludes me.

[i4mt3hwin]

Not necessarily imho. The discussion is about Windows 10 TP and a major point of controversy is the GUI. I think we can all agree that the new features are very welcome and exciting. For me, Spartan, Cortana, and Xbox One Streaming are the features that excite me. The one thing that really puts a damper on Windows 10 for me is the really drab, boring, amatuer looking GUI. One of the main reasons Vista and 7 were so talked about and heavily anticipated what it's all new GUI and Aero Glass. I think asesthetics is a huge part of a good OS and it should look really good and be fun to use. I personally like having a window open that appears to be like a pice of glass with buttons that glow. Their reasoning for dumbing down things like the window controls to simpistic 1 color drawings and absolutely atrocious icons really elludes me.

 

I agree that aesthetics is important and a good OS should look good and be fun, but it should also serve a purpose from a design perspective. Aero glass didn't serve any purpose other then looking OK. (I personally didn't care for it, but it's better then what we have now)

That being said Windows 10 UI, at the moment at least, not only looks terrible but functionally it's terrible too. There is very little consistency throughout the OS. There is duplication of menus/settings everywhere. The whole quick access/recents menu in explorer is confusing. The black on white, like for example the notification panel, melts my eyes. 

 

The screen shots posted of what it could look like, seems a bit better, but I know that it won't look like that consistently throughout the OS because Microsoft has never been able to get that right. 

[+Tyranade Subscriber²]

It would either be your motherboards INF files for your chipset, 'Intel Management Engine Interface', or 'Intel Raid Storage Technology'. 

Either way, just goto your motherboards website manufacturer, and grab the chipset drivers for those and you should be fine after that. Pretty sure its the INF drivers you want. 

I tried that already and it will not install because I am running windows 10.

 

EDIT: The INFUpdate driver installed and that got rid of the SMBus controller one so that is installed.

 

EDIT 2: Okay so now both have installed.They wouldn't before on the previous build of Windows 10 that was released publically.

 

 

Odd. Oh well TY for your help anyway .

[insanelyapple]

Man, they should really reskin MMC... There are places where old 9x/2k/classic widgets are present.

[x.iso]

Man, they should really reskin MMC... There are places where old 9x/2k/classic widgets are present.

That how it behaves with some dpi scaling (didn't happen in W8.1)

[insanelyapple]

Honestly, I don't see any difference beside the fact that's separated device manager. Maybe they should go with OSX style and provide no icons?