Gunfire reported in Turkish Capital and Reports of Possible Military Coup

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Grand Master

+Gary7 Subscriber²

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Just now, G.i.b.b.s said:

The US cannot assist unless an official invocation of Article 5 is made which is not going to happen.

 

US State Department issues statement "Turkish army attempting uprising. Security forces attempting to contain"..."Not clear who is winning"

Yes I know but if they do are not we obliged to lend a hand?

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Grand Master

Dot Matrix

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12 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

We belong to NATO as does Turkey.

Right. But that doesn't mean Obama needs to do anything. Turkey isn't his country. And like others have said, The US cannot assist unless an official invocation of Article 5 is made. You can't just send US troops all over the place willy nilly.

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G.i.b.b.s

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1 minute ago, Gary7 said:

Yes I know but if they do are not we obliged to lend a hand?

 

From NATO treaty: Article 5 only commits members to "assist the party or parties so attacked" and to take "such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed forces…." It does not automatically result in military action or any action if not "deemed necessary"

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Grand Master

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Just now, G.i.b.b.s said:

From NATO treaty: Article 5 only commits members to "assist the party or parties so attacked" and to take "such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed forces…." It does not automatically result in military action or any action if not "deemed necessary"

Yes But who deems it necessary? Turkey or the other NATO Nations?

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ctebah

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4 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

And as I said earlier Germany has denied him.

Good on them!

1 minute ago, Gary7 said:

Yes But who deems it necessary? Turkey or the other NATO Nations?

Read the NATO agreement 

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G.i.b.b.s

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Sentiment literally from the ordinary man on the street: “The people tried to stand up against President Erdogan, but they couldn’t, they were crushed, so the military had no choice but to take over,” via NYTIMES

 

Seems the coup has the support of the people?!

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Grand Master

Jim K Global Moderator

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49 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

Try something new and read the NATO agreement.

You do know this is like Turkey's 4th or 5th coup while in NATO...right?  France has also had a couple so has Greece, Portugal and one other (Italy?).  I do not think "NATO" reacted in any of them.

 

So...yea ... your whole "let's blame Obama for 'everything'" is old.

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Grand Master

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8 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

You do know this is like Turkey's 4th or 5th coup while in NATO...right?  France has also had a couple so has Greece, Portugal and one other (Italy?).  I do not think "NATO" reacted in any of them.

 

So...yea ... your whole "let's blame Obama for 'everything'" is old.

I said that Obama would do nothing which seems to have been backed up by you and most of the other posters.

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Pork Chopper

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On the news it was stated that Russia uses the Bosporus to move it's ships out of the Black Sea to the Mediterranean Sea.  This could give Russia an excuse to stick their nose in the situation.  WWIII in the making?

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Grand Master

ctebah

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Funny that in 1980 the US supported a coup in Turkey.  It would be interesting to see Russians come out and support this one.  This should also make the refugee crisis even worse for Europe....

F-16 shot down a helicopter.  A coup is probably the best thing for that country seeing just how destructive the president has been.  

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PGHammer

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6 hours ago, Gary7 said:

Yes I know but if they do are not we obliged to lend a hand?

No - what is interesting is that the issue is twofold - Erdogan's increasingly religious tilt (more so than when he was mayor of Istanbul - and was convicted of religious intolerance) and the issue that kicked off the "Arab spring" - corruption.

 

ctebah - the coup is FAR from over - state media reports military consolidation of their gains; private media is reporting that Erdogan is still in power.  (Sounds like Egypt after Morsi got toppled - hence the waiting game.)

 

Sources: Fox News/Business, CNN, Bloomberg Information Television/Bloomberg.com

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FloatingFatMan

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12 hours ago, ctebah said:

Erdogan told by Germans to get in the line with Syrians and apply for asylum 

Do you just like, make this nonsense up yourself or do you read it somewhere else?

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Clirion

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14 hours ago, Gary7 said:

Yes I know but if they do are not we obliged to lend a hand?

Actually No NATO is not bound to "Lend a Hand".  It is ONLY required if it is an Outside Force.  As this is a coup attempt, it does not matter about invoking anything.  There is no external force.

 

There is nothing to be done but let it play out for now, then go from there.  If we learned our lesson from Syria, we will stay out for quite a while.

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Grand Master

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1 hour ago, Clirion said:

Actually No NATO is not bound to "Lend a Hand".  It is ONLY required if it is an Outside Force.  As this is a coup attempt, it does not matter about invoking anything.  There is no external force.

 

There is nothing to be done but let it play out for now, then go from there.  If we learned our lesson from Syria, we will stay out for quite a while.

Source please?

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NinjaGinger

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So it looks like Turkey is still in for Democracy ending and a full Islamic state is to be born. Ironic that a none democratic act was the only thing that might have saved Turkey from that terrible fate.

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FloatingFatMan

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Just now, NinjaGinger said:

So it looks like Turkey is still in for Democracy ending and a full Islamic state is to be born. Ironic that a none democratic act was the only thing that might have saved Turkey from that terrible fate.

If that's what the Turkish people want, let them have it.  It will, of course, completely end their plans to join the EU if they take that route.

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