Mall of America hires its first black Santa

[Brys]

17 hours ago, Mando said:

Santas a fictional character (sorry any kids reading this)

OMG !!! Why did you have to tell me !!!!

[restroom]

As others have said - I don't care who plays Santa, as long as they are good in the role and good for the job. Colour shouldn't be mentioned, let alone the entire reason as this article seems to imply.

 

Another thing, which I'm not 100% sure is myth or fact, but I read that historically Christmas used to be in January time. This is why Christmas is always associated with heavy snow on the ground. It was moved during a historical turning point (which I cant remember) and is why it rarely snows (in the UK) during Christmas.

 

 

[neufuse Veteran]

23 hours ago, Mando said:

im just upset his beard is REAL  couldnt give a monkeys ball**g what colour he is. Hes got a kind laughing face in the pic so it works for me  

 

Santas a fictional character (sorry any kids reading this) and Santa wont ever be for "everyone" what about races and religions other than Christianity who do not have a "santa" 

since Santa isn't a religious figure, I'd say why does it matter what other religions say? To the people that say Santa is, show me in the Bible where Santa appears? Santa is not a religious figure, he's a combination of a bunch of myths, ideas, and other concepts...

[Yazoo]

10 minutes ago, neufuse said:

since Santa isn't a religious figure, I'd say why does it matter what other religions say? To the people that say Santa is, show me in the Bible where Santa appears? Santa is not a religious figure, he's a combination of a bunch of myths, ideas, and other concepts...

You just described religion  

[DConnell Member]

21 hours ago, J. X. Maxwell said:

The historical figure behind Santa is St. Nicolas. I don't think he was black.

Thus this is historical negationism.

St. Nicholas was white, but that doesn't mean Santa, the fictional character inspired by him, has to be.

[FloatingFatMan]

17 hours ago, DocM said:

The historical St. Nicholas was from Patara, today coastal Turkey, and an ethnic Greek. Being the Bishop of Myra he most certainly wore red vestments.

And would not have been white skinned either. At the very least, he'd have had an olive complexion, like most folks from that part of the world.

 

Either way, the current image of Santa is a fictional construct invented by the Coca Cola corporation, so who cares what skin colour he is? That beard is awesome though!  

 

[neufuse Veteran]

1 hour ago, Yazoo said:

You just described religion  

Santa is not a religious figure though. it's almost as dumb as people saying chirstmas trees are religious... no they are not... they are something left over from the days of winter and bringing nature into your house and putting lights on it was to bring light into the dark house.... basically from the pagen times... so why we make a Christmas tree to be a religious symbol to me is stupid... yes some people put angels on them... still doesn't make it religious... yet another thing I have to say show me in the bible where Jesus gave everyone Christmas trees for his not real (because its believed that was in spring or summer, not winter) birthday that no one can do...

[FloatingFatMan]

5 minutes ago, neufuse said:

Santa is not a religious figure though. it's almost as dumb as people saying chirstmas trees are religious... no they are not... they are something left over from the days of winter and bringing nature into your house and putting lights on it was to bring light into the dark house.... basically from the pagen times... so why we make a Christmas tree to be a religious symbol to me is stupid... yes some people put angels on them... still doesn't make it religious... yet another thing I have to say show me in the bible where Jesus gave everyone Christmas trees for his not real (because its believed that was in spring or summer, not winter) birthday that no one can do...

Just because it has pagan roots doesn't make it any less religious...  Pagan religions were still religions, and every bit as precious to the believers as modern day religions which steal from them, are.

 

FWIW, Christmas was originally the pagan winter solstice festival that was later abrogated by Christianity as it's a lot easier to convert people to a new religion if they get to keep their holidays. It never had anything to do with Christ originally, that was nothing but a convenient lie.

[Arachno 1D]

Next someone will be saying Jesus wasnt a Blond haired White Anglo Saxon............ OH wait he wasnt, he was reputedly a Brown haired dark skinned Palastinian DOH silly me !

 

Satan.......er sorry Santa was an advertising gimic invented by Coca Cola nothing more,weather he reflects the aspects another historical figure is irrelavent.So much for the Christian sprit and the false facts orated by TV channels for gullible viewers

 

 

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

So here's a question, about let's say Jim West.  And bear in mind I'm playing devil's advocate here to a degree.

 

He was played by a white actor in a series during a time when casting black actors as anything other than stereotypes was basically unheard of.  The role he played (ostensibly a cowboy) was set at a time when there 100% were black cowboys.  So did he play a cowboy or a white cowboy?

 

When Will Smith mangled the role in a damned awful remake (for which he has actually apologised for being involved with) - did he play a cowboy or a black cowboy?  Did the script call for a black cowboy or a cowboy?  Was the casting specifically looking for a negro, or just cashing in on Will Smith's popularity, or even pandering to a black audience or agenda?

 

Same with Hermione Grainger...   The books make no comment about ethnicity.  The films cast a young white girl (IMHO because she was clearly destined for stardom as a young Emma Thompson).  Did they cast her BECAUSE she was white?  Were they pandering to a white audience and agenda?  She's meant to be from England, so could have been any ethnicity.  In the recent stage adaption (The Cursed Child) she is played by a black actress - is this somehow wrong?

 

I was recently in Disneyland and saw Frozen live.  The role of Anna was played by a black lady - and I surprised myself by taking issue with this.  I evaluated my response and actually felt justified because - firstly it is set in a place where literally everyone seems to be white (fictional place, but I assume old Scandinavia?).  Secondly, it's for kids, and while I have no issue with racially integrated agenda's, Kids are not equipped to deal with "this isn't the thing I have come to expect and to see on a daily basis - it doesn't equate".  Finally, the lady playing the role was playing up to black stereotypes in her speech and delivery.  Was that intentional or just her?  If intentional then she is very wrong for misinterpreting the role.  If it's just how she is, then she's not equipped to play the role.

 

Look at the recent remake of Annie... The entire movie being "blacked up" - specifically to retool an old film for a new audience.  Not for an agenda, I firmly believe this was an audience and hence financial decision.  I find that quite offensive.  Heck the titular character was defined by her bright orange hair - certainly a white trait.

 

So hey, as ever I can see both sides on this.  They take into account audience, origin of the role, the setting and so on.  With a character such as Santa, what with his huge beard, overbearing attire, multiple histories and so on...  I say fair play here.

[Arachno 1D]

Quote

Kids are not equipped to deal with "this isn't the thing I have come to expect and to see on a daily basis- it doesn't equate"

Sorry not arguing with you I just dont understand the statement as its written.To  me they need grow up as none biased kids and to do this they need immersing in all aspects of multi racial groups were possible to show that its the norm and not an exception dont they?

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

6 minutes ago, Arachno 1D said:

Sorry not arguing with you I just dont understand the statement as its written.To  me they need grow up as none biased kids and to do this they need immersing in all aspects of multi racial groups were possible to show that its the norm and not an exception dont they?

I wholly agree.  I just query whether doing this in a live show at an expensive theme park is the place.  Perhaps cast (or draw) more blacks in roles that aren't defined by "being black" is a solution - which is what I feel happened with Wild Wild West (the movie).

[Arachno 1D]

Well historically speaking the Disneyland storys have none so its an illogical preconcept to actually say the actor should be defined as this or that origin for a particular roll.They are after all trying to pander to the mass crowd and be educational if in a mild light hearted way, so yes the acts may be "over egged" in character traits but is this not better than some sort of Tom Sawyer story.

[restroom]

My kids school had a female Greek Santa. She was god awful, but still, should I call the newspapers now as this is a great step for women and greeks, or just leave it as it is?

[DocM]

2 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

And would not have been white skinned either. At the very least, he'd have had an olive complexion, like most folks from that part of the world.

 

Either way, the current image of Santa is a fictional construct invented by the Coca Cola corporation, so who cares what skin colour he is? That beard is awesome though!  

 

Not really. Haddon Sundblom's (a Michigander) 1930's depiction for Coca Cola was based on 'The Night Before Chrismas' poem of a century earlier, and its main innovation was Santa as chubby. Previously he and his predecessors (Sinterklaas etc.) were depicted much like the 4th Century Bishop St Nicholas in his vestments or as similar to Odin with animal skins.

 

1869

[exotoxic]

Santa was depicted in different ways previous to coca cola choosing the red and white version as a marketing tool.

[T3X4S]

OK - since this thread has morphed into historical correctness, not political correctness - a couple of things need to be mentioned:

Many things in current monotheistic religions (especially christianity) was taken from older pagan myths.
Yes, the bible suggests it was spring when jesus was born, but drawing upon the bible for historical precision is like referring to SpiderMan movies for history of New York.

CHRISTmas is a judeo-christian holiday, santa is a symbol of christmas.
christians like to whine a lot
So it makes sense they are upset about their idols (even though they aren't supposed to have any) changing from what they have established.

Personally, I think its funny that an entire faith upset over historical inaccuracies.  Oh the irony !


But as I mentioned earlier - this guy looks like a good santa - he looks like he is enjoying making little kids happy - THATS what its all about.

 

[DConnell Member]

I honestly don't see the big deal in either direction. Yeah, St. Nicholas was white, but there's no reason why a black man can't be Santa. When I saw the photo, I didn't even register his skin color - he just looked like a Santa Claus to me.

 

At the same time, making a big deal about "inclusiveness" over hiring a black man to be Santa also seems silly. The important thing is how he relates to the kids - it shouldn't be a PC or racial thing.

[Andre S. Veteran]

21 hours ago, Emn1ty said:

The statement isn't "We hired him because he looks like Santa regardless of his skin color." or "He could do the job, so he got the job." it's "We want to be progressive and inclusive."

Where did you read that?

[Emn1ty]

17 minutes ago, Andre S. said:

Where did you read that?

In the statements made about it.

 

Quote

“This is a long time coming,” said Landon Luther, co-owner of the Santa Experience, which has run the intimate photo studio at the mall for 10 years. “We want Santa to be for everyone, period.”

Are caucasian Santa's somehow not for everyone?

 

Quote

“Kids only see one image of Santa,” said Herbert, director of Project SPIRIT. “Even though he’s a fictional character, he could be any color, any race, any gender. This is an image of him too.”

Again, implying there is something wrong with Santa always being white. They've gone out of their way to make this a race issue, and then publicized their decision to divert from a traditional Santa because they want to show that there is "more than one image" of him. That's not "we hired him because he looks like Santa" that's "Look! A black Santa! We're so inclusive and progressive!" We have all this lip service about Santa being from the heart, and honestly the moment I saw the photo I thought it looked like Santa. Seriously, the touchy feely stuff isn't even necessary. He just downright looks like Santa.

[trag3dy]

Also I don't know how many black Santa's I've seen over the years outside of various stores during the Holidays ringing a bell for donations to the Salvation Army. I remember seeing more than a few and I also remember it not being a huge deal.

 

The only thing special about this article is the fact that they had to publicize they have a black Santa all in the name of inclusiveness and diversity.

Edited December 5, 2016 by trag3dy

[DocM]

These days, if you don't someone assumes you haven't then you have a circular parade at your entrance.

[T3X4S]

1 hour ago, trag3dy said:

....

The only thing special about this article is the fact that they had to publicize they have a black Santa all in the name of inclusiveness and diversity.

Exactly.  IMO, if someone would have uploaded a pic from their phone and said "here is my kid with Santa - he is so excited" - that would have meant more to me.  

BSM !!   Black Santas Matter !   j/k.. no Im not...well, kinda

[JoseyWales]

I hate the whole "inject race into it" bit and have always thought of Santa as being white. But then I am white.. Nothing at all wrong with black folks doing a black Santa for them. Chinese, whatever.. Santa is a state of mind I believe and transcends color or race. I think he makes a nice looking Santa. Well done on their part..

[Shiranui]

On 2016/12/5 at 3:20 AM, J. X. Maxwell said:

Slippery slope. Allow a little nudge and in time you'd have black founding fathers.