George Orwell’s ‘1984’ Is Suddenly a Best-Seller Again

[Andre S. Veteran]

On 2017-02-01 at 0:13 PM, FloatingFatMan said:

In Europe, where we have extensive social care throughout all the members, we just don't have the levels of violent crime you have because we look after the poor a darn sight better than the US government does.  If you did the same, I'm betting your levels of crime would drop to something mirroring Europe.

Pretty much nails it. IMO the social costs are there whether you like or not, it's a matter of choosing between spending a ton on prisons and guns and police and courts and lost economic revenue - being in reactive mode - or spending a ton on social security, medical insurance - being in preventive mode. Neither works 100% but I think comparing countries shows the latter is much, much preferable.

[DocM]

2 hours ago, -Razorfold said:

So I'm sure you must be greatly upset at Trump for using H-2 visas correct?

I assume you are referring to the Trump Winery in Virginia? 

 

Wrong Trump.

 

Donald Trump bought it in a bank sale after friends defaulted on their loan,  then he gave it to his son Eric. It's run by Eric Trump Wine Manufacturing LLC, which is not part of The Trump Organization.

[Mr. Gibs]

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According to the Palm Beach Post, Trump won approval from the U.S. Labor Department in October to hire 64 foreign workers through the H-2B visa program, which allows eligible U.S. employers to hire foreign nationals to fill temporary jobs. Trump hired 69 workers through the same program last year. 

 According to the Palm Beach Post, Trump will pay the staff wages comparable to what he offered last year. Though some will make less than they made last year, most will get a 1 percent raise. 

"It's very, very hard to get people," Trump said when questioned about it at a March presidential debate.

Quote

Trump's Mar-a-Lago Club and Jupiter Golf Club have filed documents to bring in as many as 78 foreign workers for the next fiscal year. In total, records filed at the U.S. Department of Labor and reviewed by CNN reveal that in the last 15 years, Donald Trump's various businesses have been granted approval to import at least 1,256 foreign guest workers. 

Quote

Since the start of Trump's campaign in June 2015, companies he owns have requested at least 190 foreign visa workers, according to Department of Labor data. The workers were hired on a variety of different U.S. visa programs.

Most of the requests for foreign workers were for the Mar-a-Lago Club, Trump's exclusive crown jewel property that is both a resort and sports club, nestled on the shores of Palm Beach. In the past 10 years, 849 foreign guest workers were approved to work at the resort, mostly as servers, cooks, housekeepers or similar positions.

Quote

The U.S. Department of Labor has confirmed to CNN that between 2013 and fall 2015, Trump's Mar-a-Lago club posted 250 seasonal job openings and filled just 4 of those jobs with American workers. The club requested the rest of the staff be temporarily imported through the Federal government's H-2B visa process. Basically, Mar-a-Lago brings in its seasonal staff from overseas. 

And best of all:

Quote

Records show Mar-a-Lago appears to have done the bare minimum required by law to advertise the jobs to U.S. workers. According to a CNN analysis of hundreds of pages of Labor Department documents, Mar-a-Lago did not place advertisements in the area's largest newspaper. Instead, ads were placed in a local paper with a small circulation. Additionally, the ads were routinely posted for just two days, the minimum required by law. 

""It's very, very hard to get people," Trump said when questioned about it at a March presidential debate."

 

Plus Trump did claim to own the largest winery on the east coast (in reference to the one in Virginia) in 2016, but like you said he doesn't own that and well it's not the largest. So take that as you will.

Edited February 2, 2017 by -Razorfold

[DocM]

5 minutes ago, -Razorfold said:

And best of all:

""It's very, very hard to get people," Trump said when questioned about it at a March presidential debate."

 

You do understand the difference between the H2 visa I was talking about and the H2B used at the resorts, right? I ask because it appears you don't. 

[Mr. Gibs]

13 minutes ago, DocM said:

You do understand the difference between the H2 visa I was talking about and the H2B used at the resorts, right? I ask because it appears you don't. 

You do understand that H-2A and H-2B are both part of the "Temporary foreign workers" visas right?

 

H-2A is for agricultural work. (For temporary or seasonal agricultural work. Limited to citizens or nationals of designated countries, with limited exceptions, if determined to be in the United States interest.)

H-2B is for non-agricultural work. (For temporary or seasonal non- agricultural work. Limited to citizens or nationals of designated countries, with limited exceptions, if determined to be in the United States interest.)

 

There is no H2 visa, its A or B. The temporary foreign workers program has multiple visas. You said:

Quote

Also, a better guest worker system. The H-2 system we have is a kludge which allows temporary imported laborers to displace domestic laborers at cut-rate, near indentured servitude wages especially in the meat packing, building and landscaping businesses.

Meat packing - H-2A/H-2B (USCIS says it's one of the top industries for H2B visas, some websites claim H-2A would work too)

Building/Construction - H-2B

Landscaping - H-2B

 

So the only person who doesn't know what he's talking about, once again, is you.

Edited February 2, 2017 by -Razorfold

[DocM]

In these parts we call H2A H2. H2B is limited in numbers, H2A is open and mainly agricultural and that's part of the problem because the agricultural workers are the ones most likely to be abused. The H2B's are most likely to displace US laborers, and that is a huge problem which cost Democrats a lot of votes in the midwest.

 

The whole H2 system needs reworking, and that proposal is said to be coming very soon.

[Mr. Gibs]

42 minutes ago, DocM said:

In these parts we call H2A H2. H2B is limited in numbers, H2A is open and mainly agricultural and that's part of the problem because the agricultural workers are the ones most likely to be abused. The H2B's are most likely to displace US laborers, and that is a huge problem which cost Democrats a lot of votes in the midwest.

 

The whole H2 system needs reworking, and that proposal is said to be coming very soon.

Except that all the jobs you mentioned (especially in the meat packing, building and landscaping businesses.) would all come under H-2B, therefore you were wrong and talking out your ass.  So I bring up the question again:

Quote

I'm sure you must be greatly upset at Trump for using H-2 visas correct?

---

Now what you mentioned in this post is largely correct. There is a cap of on H2-B while there isn't one for H2-A and they're both likely to displace US workers:

https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2015AnnualReport/FY15AnnualReport-TableXVIB.pdf

The employer just has to show that they made an attempt to hire US workers...like we saw with Trump's "attempt", there isn't much required to doing that:

Quote

Records show Mar-a-Lago appears to have done the bare minimum required by law to advertise the jobs to U.S. workers. According to a CNN analysis of hundreds of pages of Labor Department documents, Mar-a-Lago did not place advertisements in the area's largest newspaper. Instead, ads were placed in a local paper with a small circulation. Additionally, the ads were routinely posted for just two days, the minimum required by law. 

A job posting for 2 days in some random local newspaper isn't going to find many American workers at all, which opens the program up for abuse.