New Rig Build $2500 Maybe Little Bit More

[adrynalyne]

2 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

Well, yes.

 

The OP said that he is considering having multiple NVMe SSDs in his system.

I have multiple nvme SSDs in my system and have a 7700k. 

[Mockingbird]

Just now, adrynalyne said:

I have multiple nvme SSDs in my system and have a 7700k. 

Sure, buy you are PCIe lanes limited, which means that you cannot fully utilize your NVMe SSD speed.

[adrynalyne]

2 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

Sure, buy you are PCIe lanes limited, which means that you cannot fully utilize your NVMe SSD speed.

100% false. Would you like me to post benchmarks when I get home? They only use 4 lanes each. 

[Mockingbird]

3 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

100% false. Would you like me to post benchmarks when I get home? They only use 4 lanes each. 

How many NVMe SSDs do you have?

[adrynalyne]

1 minute ago, Mockingbird said:

How many NVMe SSDs do you have?

2, which by my count is multiple. I have room for 3 at full speed. 

[Mockingbird]

12 minutes ago, Circaflex said:

I am genuinely curious and looking to gain more knowledge on the subject. I haven't kept up to date with much of Intel or AMDs new releases, I was hoping he wasn't blowing hot air and had some valid concerns.

Again, I ask, do you have numbers, reviews or any sort of benchmarks to show it is an issue at ANY level? Consumer, professional, anything? The only reason I am quoting you, not as an attack, but because it was one of the points you brought up multiple times.

You just get the speed that's the speed of the slot.

 

It's like you can't get more water than the maximum that the water pipe allows.

[Circaflex]

4 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

You just get the speed that's the speed of the slot.

I guess I will stop asking. It is unfortunate to see how you treated DevTech in this thread, stating that his opinion and claims were either made up or flat out wrong or biased towards Intel; yet when I have asked you about one of your concerns you cannot provide any sort of evidence that this can or will cause a problem. Is this limit even reachable by normal standards? No need to reply back, I don't think I will ask anymore, but this should be a wake up call for the OP that not everything you have stated is backed up or actually a concern.

[Mockingbird]

Just now, Circaflex said:

I guess I will stop asking. It is unfortunate to see how you treated DevTech in this thread, stating that his opinion and claims were either made up or flat out wrong; yet when I have asked you about one of your concerns you cannot provide any sort of evidence that this can or will cause a problem. No need to reply back, I don't think I will ask anymore, but this should be a wake up call from OP that not everything you have stated is backed up or actually a concern.

This is obvious that it doesn't need to be tested.

 

A pipe that can bring in 1 liter/s.

 

What you are asking is basically: Have you read any reviews to see if you get 1 liter/s?

[DevTech]

2 minutes ago, Circaflex said:

I guess I will stop asking. It is unfortunate to see how you treated DevTech in this thread, stating that his opinion and claims were either made up or flat out wrong or biased towards Intel; yet when I have asked you about one of your concerns you cannot provide any sort of evidence that this can or will cause a problem. No need to reply back, I don't think I will ask anymore, but this should be a wake up call for the OP that not everything you have stated is backed up or actually a concern.

I am pleased at the efforts the Moderators made to clean up this thread and make it useful.

 

Since that time Mockingbird has been polite and responsive and so in the spirit of "Neowin Gentility (TM)" lets keep it all intellectual and informative please

[adrynalyne]

1 minute ago, Circaflex said:

I guess I will stop asking. It is unfortunate to see how you treated DevTech in this thread, stating that his opinion and claims were either made up or flat out wrong or biased towards Intel; yet when I have asked you about one of your concerns you cannot provide any sort of evidence that this can or will cause a problem. No need to reply back, I don't think I will ask anymore, but this should be a wake up call from OP that not everything you have stated is backed up or actually a concern.

I’ll answer for him since he seems unable. It’s only useful if you want to pack your machine full of devices that use the lanes. Once you run out of lanes, ports start getting disabled, at least in the case of my gigabyte board. 

 

Example: the cost of me running two nvme drives was losing the ability to use two sata ports. I can’t actually use all my sata ports and my m2 and u2 slots at the same time. This is due to how gigabyte handled pcie lanes and shares them between ports. To me it would make sense that ample amounts of lanes would allow manufacturers to never share. 

 

 

[DevTech]

2 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I am pleased at the efforts the Moderators made to clean up this thread and make it useful.

 

Since that time Mockingbird has been polite and responsive and so in the spirit of "Neowin Gentility (TM)" lets keep it all intellectual and informative please

I'm pretty sure Mockingbird is correct in that a lane is a lane and counting them yields insight over lane availability although sometimes inside the motherboard too many peripherals get attached to a single lane.

 

On the topic of this thread, lets speculate "DevTech's Serious Hobby level 4K Video Editing Config"

 

We might want to start with a semi-normal PCIe lane allocation but have the ability to max it out as our usage expands to a maximum of:

 

- 1080 #1 - 16 Lanes

- 1080 #2 - 16 Lanes

- 1060 GPU Calc #1 - 8 or 16 Lanes

- 1060 GPU Calc #2 - 8 or 16 Lanes

- M.2 NVME times 4 units - 4 Lanes times 4 = 16 Lanes

- Thunderbolt Lanes x nnn? no idea how many lanes needed for each Thunderbolt

- a spare x4 slot - 4 Lanes

- 2 spare x1 slots - 2 Lanes

- Motherboard peripherals - 4 Lanes?

 

Maybe 96 Lanes total?  - for some hypothetical Motherboard that I also want to cram 4 CPU slots in as well!

 

[The Evil Overlord]

33 minutes ago, DevTech said:

 

- 1080 #1 - 16 Lanes

- 1080 #2 - 16 Lanes

- 1060 GPU Calc #1 - 8 or 16 Lanes

- 1060 GPU Calc #2 - 8 or 16 Lanes

- M.2 NVME times 4 units - 4 Lanes times 4 = 16 Lanes

- Thunderbolt Lanes x nnn? no idea how many lanes needed for each Thunderbolt

- a spare x4 slot - 4 Lanes

- 2 spare x1 slots - 2 Lanes

- Motherboard peripherals - 4 Lanes?

 

Maybe 96 Lanes total?  - for some hypothetical Motherboard that I also want to cram 4 CPU slots in as well!

 

Devtech,

Question in 2 parts.

 

1. Aren't cpu lanes different from gpu lanes?

2. How would lane restriction affect workflow, in the scenario specific to the OP specification?

 

[zhangm Supervisor]

I have cleaned this thread of off-topic replies.

 

The next time moderators need to intervene in this thread because of off-topic discussion and belittling of other members, warnings will be handed out.

[DevTech]

1 hour ago, The Evil Overlord said:

Devtech,

Question in 2 parts.

 

1. Aren't cpu lanes different from gpu lanes?

2. How would lane restriction affect workflow, in the scenario specific to the OP specification?

 

1. A)  PCIe Lane is just a unit of bandwidth. A Lane is a Lane. (In the old days there used to be a special Lane or Bus between the CPU and the Chipset and then the Chipset would divvy out the I/O) The need to sustain a texture fill rate leads to the need for sufficient lanes to accommodate that. Many low end video cards could function quite nicely with 4X or 8X but the high end cards need 16X. A nice thing about PCIe is that it is bi-directional so in the case of GPU cards, high bandwidth data can move from the GPU over to the CPU which has enabled the revolution in GPU computing.

 

1.B) The Motherboard and BIOS plays a big part in how the limited supply of PCIe Lanes are allocated. Sometimes they are just reduced where a single video might get X16 but 2 video cards will get X8 each. Sometimes they are re-allocated when a M.2 drive is detected and then SATA channels are removed.

 

2. A) The (possible) workflow restriction comes from the two effects in 1.B) - If the GPU is being used for computing and the bandwidth is restricted, less work will get done. If 2 M.2 drives are installed on the motherboard needing 8 Lanes it is possible it will be stolen from the expansion slots or else each drive will get 2 Lanes each instead of 4.

 

2. B) CPU processing will not be affected by Lane restriction. all modern CPU's now have a direct RAM interface.

 

GPU processing can take a big hit, and I would imagine that 4 GPUs on a motherboard will be rather horrible if you are starting with a normal number of lanes.

 

Many parts of the Video Editing workflow is completely bottle-necked by the transfer speed on and off the disk which is why traditionally Video Editing Workstations have a Source Disk and a Destination disk for Video Processing. Something like a Samsung 960 Pro makes this workflow less critical but it is still faster if you have 2 separate drives (plus a system.boot drive) - So a minimum of 3 M.2 drives makes more Lane requirements.

 

The motherboard itself can sometimes have too many peripherals hanging off a single Lane so that External Long Term Storage via Gigabit Ethernet or Thunderbolt or USB 3 can be bottlenecked if more than one thing is happening.

 

3. There are no standards for how motherboards allocate Lanes so the Docs for each motherboard needs to be checked for the "fine print"

 

 

 

 

 

[GamerZon360]

Thanks everyone and I think I will stop posting until I make up my mind on this thread. This was a really good thread and I hope no one gets in trouble and I don't want anyone to get in trouble. This is a very good community and I am happy to be part off. 

 

+DevTech, my need for 4K creation doesn't need to be professional. The system that I am putting together is going to be a everyday rig but cram what ever I can with my budget. I look at the Threadripper as for people who will need all those 64-Lanes. The config that I am putting together doesn't need that many lanes. 

 

I think after all the useful info I have received, I need to go to the drawing board start to put my plans together. Again thank you for all the help and I will let you guys know which way I go!

 

Josh  

[sinetheo]

On 9/7/2017 at 7:55 PM, GamerZon360 said:

Hello there guys, I have been reading a lot of threads in here and I am really confused between Intel and AMD Processor. I was originally leaning towards AMD TR, but I think it might be a bit overkill for me and EXPENSIVE. My last built was 2011 and I usually try to future proof my build (which we all know is impossible).

 

I have always built Intel Systems and This would be my first AMD System if I move forward. So I am looking for some guide on the processor needs and system board (Big Asus Fan). Need a system that will last me at least 7 years if not more.

 

Also is Coffee Lake Worth The Wait? I will be buying the system board, processor and system ram last

 

Primary Usage Of This New Rig: (Budge $2500 and Max $3000, But Would Like To Stay Below If Possible)

 

Creation of 4K Content, Conversion/Encoding YouTube Channel Content Creation Photo Editing Little Big Gaming (Not Hardcore) VR Ready

 

Thanks In Advance!

Go with AMD. YOu can get more performance per dollar since you mentioned money. If doing large scale video comprension with Adobe premiere get the cheaper 1700 or 1700x and overclock and not the more expensive 1800x. You can also get the 1600x but you have just 6 cores and not 8 but for i5 prices you get 6 cores/12 threads if you can live with 2 less cores it is the same as a full 1800x.

 

Also I warn others never to buy Asus! Yes, I will make people angry but I am a former fanboy and here is my terrible experience. Their motherboards are plain buggy and video cards aweful. I want to sue those bastards as I have 4 power supplies under my feet right now. Yes I said 4 power supplies! Every single one of them got fried thanks to my Asus board. I thought my Strix GTX 770 was the cause at first. When Power Supply number 2 went out it took out a $400 SSD!

 

Also this was my second problematic board. My first Asus board had bad caps and started getting XP BSOD. I found out later after throwing it away why it was doing this. I also own an Asus gaming monitor. THe colors are terrible on it.

 

AND yes I have a $300 APC battery backup unit. 2 of them now thinking I jhust had bad power. Nope it is the Asus board. 

 

Thanks Asus for costing me over $1600 in damages. 

 

[sinetheo]

4 hours ago, The Evil Overlord said:

Devtech,

Question in 2 parts.

 

1. Aren't cpu lanes different from gpu lanes?

2. How would lane restriction affect workflow, in the scenario specific to the OP specification?

 

 

33 minutes ago, GamerZon360 said:

Thanks everyone and I think I will stop posting until I make up my mind on this thread. This was a really good thread and I hope no one gets in trouble and I don't want anyone to get in trouble. This is a very good community and I am happy to be part off. 

 

+DevTech, my need for 4K creation doesn't need to be professional. The system that I am putting together is going to be a everyday rig but cram what ever I can with my budget. I look at the Threadripper as for people who will need all those 64-Lanes. The config that I am putting together doesn't need that many lanes. 

 

I think after all the useful info I have received, I need to go to the drawing board start to put my plans together. Again thank you for all the help and I will let you guys know which way I go!

 

Josh  

I watch videos on youtube jayz2cents and linus tech tips and others. NO ONE EVER uses all the PCI express lanes on their $3,000 builds. I mean who the hell uses several NVME's in raid 0 with 4 GPUs? 

 

If you want threadripper expect some major serious backs. The boards themselves are $500. I mean if you are a professional you may have a use but as prosumer hobbiest this is waaaay overkill. Infact a regular SSD or 2 ssds in raid 0 are fine. I shock NVME owners when I tell them I see no difference between boot times and loading games between 1 ssd and an NVME drive. Benchmarks just copy files but in real world use the cpu loads a file processes loads another file processes ... etc. You won't see a difference as video is continuous vs writting many large files at once. 

 

It depends on your budget of course. WIth my unless I am being paid and see a return on investment I do not want to spend more than $1500. MY PC I blew $4500 with $1500 with damages caused by Asus products but whose counting :-) ... because I wanted to update my MCSE certification or do some programming. I needed virtualization so I viewed it as an investment that would pay for itself

 

Jay2cents is not even using his threadripper for his youtube videos I may add and still using the regular Ryzen 1800X. That is also his fulltime job I may add. For 1 GPU and an NVMe drive with an SSD I would not worry about PCI Express lanes

[Mockingbird]

11 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

Go with AMD. YOu can get more performance per dollar since you mentioned money. If doing large scale video comprension with Adobe premiere get the cheaper 1700 or 1700x and overclock and not the more expensive 1800x. You can also get the 1600x but you have just 6 cores and not 8 but for i5 prices you get 6 cores/12 threads if you can live with 2 less cores it is the same as a full 1800x.

 

Also I warn others never to buy Asus! Yes, I will make people angry but I am a former fanboy and here is my terrible experience. Their motherboards are plain buggy and video cards aweful. I want to sue those bastards as I have 4 power supplies under my feet right now. Yes I said 4 power supplies! Every single one of them got fried thanks to my Asus board. I thought my Strix GTX 770 was the cause at first. When Power Supply number 2 went out it took out a $400 SSD!

 

Also this was my second problematic board. My first Asus board had bad caps and started getting XP BSOD. I found out later after throwing it away why it was doing this. I also own an Asus gaming monitor. THe colors are terrible on it.

 

AND yes I have a $300 APC battery backup unit. 2 of them now thinking I jhust had bad power. Nope it is the Asus board. 

 

Thanks Asus for costing me over $1600 in damages. 

 

Asus has definitely gone down the tubes.

 

It used to be the best brand, but now it's releasing motherboards that would randomly brick itself.

[Mockingbird]

51 minutes ago, GamerZon360 said:

Thanks everyone and I think I will stop posting until I make up my mind on this thread. This was a really good thread and I hope no one gets in trouble and I don't want anyone to get in trouble. This is a very good community and I am happy to be part off. 

 

+DevTech, my need for 4K creation doesn't need to be professional. The system that I am putting together is going to be a everyday rig but cram what ever I can with my budget. I look at the Threadripper as for people who will need all those 64-Lanes. The config that I am putting together doesn't need that many lanes. 

 

I think after all the useful info I have received, I need to go to the drawing board start to put my plans together. Again thank you for all the help and I will let you guys know which way I go!

 

Josh  

I will leave this here

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700X 3.4GHz 8-Core Processor  ($309.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H100i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock - X370 Taichi ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($183.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: *G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($258.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($89.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($219.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($74.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB D5X Video Card  ($514.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair - 760T Black V2 ATX Full Tower Case  ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair - CSM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit  ($89.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2032.67
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-10 01:53 EDT-0400

[sinetheo]

1 minute ago, Mockingbird said:

I will leave this here

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700X 3.4GHz 8-Core Processor  ($309.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H100i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock - X370 Taichi ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($183.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: *G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($258.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($89.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($219.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($74.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB D5X Video Card  ($514.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair - 760T Black V2 ATX Full Tower Case  ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair - CSM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit  ($89.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2032.67
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-10 01:53 EDT-0400

Windows Home can only use 16 gigs of ram unless I am mistaken as I have used the pro versions for awhile now

[adrynalyne]

1 minute ago, sinetheo said:

Windows Home can only use 16 gigs of ram unless I am mistaken as I have used the pro versions for awhile now

You are mistaken. It’s 128GB. 

[Mockingbird]

4 minutes ago, sinetheo said:

Windows Home can only use 16 gigs of ram unless I am mistaken as I have used the pro versions for awhile now

128 GB of memory for Windows 10 Home and 2 TB of memory for Windows 10 Pro.

[DevTech]

1 hour ago, GamerZon360 said:

Thanks everyone and I think I will stop posting until I make up my mind on this thread. This was a really good thread and I hope no one gets in trouble and I don't want anyone to get in trouble. This is a very good community and I am happy to be part off. 

 

+DevTech, my need for 4K creation doesn't need to be professional. The system that I am putting together is going to be a everyday rig but cram what ever I can with my budget. I look at the Threadripper as for people who will need all those 64-Lanes. The config that I am putting together doesn't need that many lanes. 

 

I think after all the useful info I have received, I need to go to the drawing board start to put my plans together. Again thank you for all the help and I will let you guys know which way I go!

 

Josh  

Professional or not simply doesn't matter. 4K Video is a technical thing. It will bog down your computer when it wants to without asking you for a membership card! It's true that professionals buy better equipment to accomplish tasks faster, but if the difference in time is too large you simply will stop editing in 4K and if you don't mind falling back to that then just about any config discussed here will work out just fine.

 

Because of your question I'm somewhat inspired to investigate Multi-GPU 1060 Acceleration as a way of making a "Poor Man's Workstation" and if I ever get around to it in the next year, I will report back.

 

I'm really sorry (and surprised) that the emergence of some weird new fanboy culture reminiscent of the Old Intel vs AMD Days has polluted your thread. I don't remember that old rivalry being so vicious as people trot out almost any silly point to aggressively convince you to purchase a particular CPU manufacturer like you are being forced to swim with a Pool of Piranhas just by posting a CPU question on Neowin. 

 

I think everyone here has presented just about every possible version and idea of making a Cheapo 4K Video Editing Machine and I think you are correct that it is worth winding this thread down while you process it all. Good luck with your configuration investigations!

[GamerZon360]

Thanks again everyone and I had to reply back on the Asus System Boards. I have been using them from the beginning and never had issues. I am currently running the Asus Rampage for Intel Platform and it been running and continues to run smoothly. I will be sure to keep your information on Asus on-hand when times for me to select the board.

 

Josh

[The Evil Overlord]

2 minutes ago, GamerZon360 said:

Thanks again everyone and I had to reply back on the Asus System Boards. I have been using them from the beginning and never had issues. I am currently running the Asus Rampage for Intel Platform and it been running and continues to run smoothly. I will be sure to keep your information on Asus on-hand when times for me to select the board.

 

Josh

+1 on the Asus board

Any tech could fail, for any reason, but I've never had any problems with any of my Asus boards. (For home use)