Two killed in shooting at Jacksonville video game tournament

[DocM]

8 hours ago, DeusProto said:

The only gun that should be legal for sale to civilians in the US should be a .22 that is designed to only accept a short magazine that carries 4 bullets,

 

You do realize that the .22 is a favored round among hitmen? It's quiet, effective, and easy to silence.

 

That the .22 is used in a Russian sniper rifle, for damned good reason? See Hitman comment.

 

The AR-15 uses a .22 caliber projectile?

 

That the .22 Magnum is one leathal SOB of a round?

 

That even smaller diameter cartridges are very deadly? .17 HMR etc.

 

That any kid with basic metal shop skills and some sheet metal, or a 3D printer, can extend a magazine to an arbitrary size?  That these instructions are all over the internet?

 

8 hours ago, DeusProto said:

 

and is designed to  require 1-2 minutes of effort to remove and reinsert it so that it takes awhile to replenish the magazine each time its depleted -- like a series of latches that must be pushed in a specific pattern to remove,

 

This disabling the constitutionally guaranteed right to armed self defense*, given the "bad guys" or gunrunners will have modfied their firearms withnlarger mags on day one.

 

* US Supreme Court decisions in Heller, McDonald etc.

8 hours ago, DeusProto said:

 

further anyone owning such should be required to prove that they actively hunt with it and require renewal every quarter.

 

Hunting licenses are already renewed annually.

8 hours ago, DeusProto said:

.....Also, a wireless camera should be installed in the gun that records each time it is fired, with a fingerprint sensor in the trigger.... 

That "Smart Gun" you probably saw in Skyfall, and others like it, have serious reliability issues due to the physical  loads (recoil etc.) their electronics need to endure. This is why cop-cams are on the cop.

 

Also, mandatory gun lock laws, fingerprint or otherwise, are already unconstitutional per the US Supreme Court. See above.

8 hours ago, DeusProto said:

the owner should be required to register the address or addresses that the gun will be at 90% of the time or more,

 

Your address is already recorded at a new firearms purchase, and those of us with a concealed carry permit have even more documentation and qualification. Many of us re-up our quals and have more range time than cops do. 

8 hours ago, DeusProto said:

 

so that if it's stolen or is trasferred illegally authorities become aware of it immediately. 

 

A stolen firearm is usually reported so it can be claimed on the owners  insurance. 

8 hours ago, DeusProto said:

 

Do these things and incidents like this will be far less numerous. 

 

Nope, because of several factors including guns being stolen in transit after manufacture, guns being illegally imported (usually from Asia, Europe and S. America), and homemade firearms which are FAR easier to make than you think. 

 

Ex: I could visit a hardware store, metals dealer or even a scrap yard and come home with everything I'd need to build a quite servicible  9x17mm sub-machinegun gun. No fancy tools needed, and no rifled barrel needed because it's a short range weapon. 

 

Brazil's black market homemade gun manufacturing shows how ineffective gun laws can be. They've made it to US street dealers.

8 hours ago, DeusProto said:

Also, a psychiatrist should be able to request a lifetime ban for one of their patients owning anything that has a primary use as a weapon, 

 

A shrink with a dangerous patient can report them, but then the legal system requires more than that. It's called due process. Look it up.

[trag3dy]

17 hours ago, DocM said:

 

You do realize that the .22 is a favored round among hitmen? It's quiet, effective, and easy to silence.

 

That the .22 is used in a Russian sniper rifle, for damned good reason? See Hitman comment.

 

The AR-15 uses a .22 caliber projectile?

 

That the .22 Magnum is one leathal SOB of a round?

 

That even smaller diameter cartridges are very deadly? .17 HMR etc.

 

That any kid with basic metal shop skills and some sheet metal, or a 3D printer, can extend a magazine to an arbitrary size?  That these instructions are all over the internet?

 

 

This disabling the constitutionally guaranteed right to armed self defense*, given the "bad guys" or gunrunners will have modfied their firearms withnlarger mags on day one.

 

* US Supreme Court decisions in Heller, McDonald etc.

 

Hunting licenses are already renewed annually.

That "Smart Gun" you probably saw in Skyfall, and others like it, have serious reliability issues due to the physical  loads (recoil etc.) their electronics need to endure. This is why cop-cams are on the cop.

 

Also, mandatory gun lock laws, fingerprint or otherwise, are already unconstitutional per the US Supreme Court. See above.

 

Your address is already recorded at a new firearms purchase, and those of us with a concealed carry permit have even more documentation and qualification. Many of us re-up our quals and have more range time than cops do. 

 

A stolen firearm is usually reported so it can be claimed on the owners  insurance. 

 

Nope, because of several factors including guns being stolen in transit after manufacture, guns being illegally imported (usually from Asia, Europe and S. America), and homemade firearms which are FAR easier to make than you think. 

 

Ex: I could visit a hardware store, metals dealer or even a scrap yard and come home with everything I'd need to build a quite servicible  9x17mm sub-machinegun gun. No fancy tools needed, and no rifled barrel needed because it's a short range weapon. 

 

Brazil's black market homemade gun manufacturing shows how ineffective gun laws can be. They've made it to US street dealers.

 

A shrink with a dangerous patient can report them, but then the legal system requires more than that. It's called due process. Look it up.

All that being said the .22 is not a hunting round. In fact I'm pretty it's illegal to use them for hunting anything other than varmints in some states. It's just not powerful enough to kill big game.

[DocM]

54 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

All that being said the .22 is not a hunting round. In fact I'm pretty it's illegal to use them for hunting anything other than varmints in some states. It's just not powerful enough to kill big game.

 

Shot placement matters more than caliber and the .22 is relatively quiet, both of which is why it's a favorite round of poachers and hitmen. 

 

The .22 is also commonly used round for small and medium game in virtually every state, and in gunfights it's rather effective. Put one in someone and that little bullet will rattle around, bouncing off skull bones or ribs, and turn everything in between into mush. Often more damage than a larger round going in, through, and out.

 

This chart is pretty instructive; over 230% of .22 uses in a gunfight result in a fatality. Other rounds get into the >30% range, and a shotgun is by far  deadlier than anything, but a .22 is no slouch.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by DocM

[trag3dy]

1 hour ago, DocM said:

 

Shot placement matters more than caliber and the .22 is relatively quiet, both of which is why it's a favorite round of poachers and hitmen. 

 

The .22 is also commonly used round for small and medium game in virtually every state, and in gunfights it's rather effective. Put one in someone and that little bullet will rattle around, bouncing off skull bones or ribs, and turn everything in between into mush. Often more damage than a larger round going in, through, and out.

 

This chart is pretty instructive; over 230% of .22 uses in a gunfight result in a fatality. Other rounds get into the >30% range, and a shotgun is by far  deadlier than anything, but a .22 is no slouch.

 

That's all good and well but I'm talking specifically about hunting game. Not humans. You're not hunting a bull elk, black bear, or cougar with a .22.

[DocM]

6 hours ago, trag3dy said:

That's all good and well but I'm talking specifically about hunting game. Not humans. You're not hunting a bull elk, black bear, or cougar with a .22.

It's whatever can be reached before the critter arrives, but in the woods I almost always have a .500 Mag or .50 AE (12.7×33mm) and a can of bear spray on my belt.  

 

Black bear and hogs are the main aggression risks here. Cougars less so.

[wakjak]

 

[DocM]

And odds are it's because his shrink, the court, the state, or all of the above  failed to report him to the FBI NICS instant background check database. 

[techbeck]

37 minutes ago, DocM said:

And odds are it's because his shrink, the court, the state, or all of the above  failed to report him to the FBI NICS instant background check database. 

Like i said before...could have been avoided.  I also love how some want to impose more rules and restrictions when the current rules are not being followed.  But hey, lets have more rules in place that people do not follow a I am sure that will help!....

 

[Steven P. Administrators]

6 hours ago, techbeck said:

Like i said before...could have been avoided.  I also love how some want to impose more rules and restrictions when the current rules are not being followed.  But hey, lets have more rules in place that people do not follow a I am sure that will help!....

 

So the question remains (at least to me) who is accountable? His shrink, the court, the state, his family? If rules were broken, there's accountability.

 

Everyone should be worried that an unstable individual can acquire weapons and go on a rampage like the ones we see all too often.

[DocM]

1 hour ago, Steven P. said:

So the question remains (at least to me) who is accountable? His shrink, the court, the state, his family? If rules were broken, there's accountability.

 

For one thing, the laws often work at cross-purposes.  Besides mandatory  reporting laws not being strong enough, the medical privacy laws (federal HIPAA* and state equivalents) are in dire need of review because they often  conflict will mandatory reporting. Then you have local, state and even federal courts dropping the ball by way of slow or non-existent reportage.

 

There's also a fair number of shrinks who would fight disclosure on any grounds. Others are just clueless.

 

Making this MUCH harder are anti-gun activists who would go too far; barring firearms ownership by those with any kind of diagnosis from the DSM**, which would include totally benign conditions wrt a propensity for violence. 

 

* Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act

 

** Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders

Quote

 

Everyone should be worried that an unstable individual can acquire weapons and go on a rampage like the ones we see all too often.

 

Almost everyone is, even NRA which has long complained about inconsisant state, federal and medical mandatory reporting to NICS.  Their main reservation has to do with overly broad reporting, as noted above wrt DSM, which could be abused.

[Steven P. Administrators]

@DocM alright I understand and appreciate all that, but ffs when are too many red flags not enough for one or more of those in the chain not to act?

[dipsylalapo Supervisor]

You know what, I've always been on the side on of an outright ban on guns, but the more and more I read about these shootings, how the individual should have been stopped, the number of warnings that should have been picked up and acted on, the less I'm convinced about a ban on firearms. 

 

I still don't get the whole gun culture in the US, but whatever. I'm starting see failings elsewhere and how this guy should have been given help way before he was allowed to go near any firearms. 

[Skiver Veteran]

I think @Steven P. has a pretty good point, if you start to make those in the position who should be ensuring mentally unstable people are reported through the correct channels then there's less chance they'll fail to do so. This won't fix the problem but it could go a long way to improving it.

 

I understand @DocM reply and I don't believe for one second that it will be easy to make it happen but it should be possible with time and enough support.

 

As someone outside of the US I don't think it's fair for me to judge or pass a true opinion on gun laws but too many of these incidents are happening because firearms have ended up in the hands of unwell people.

[techbeck]

4 hours ago, Steven P. said:

So the question remains (at least to me) who is accountable? His shrink, the court, the state, his family? If rules were broken, there's accountability.

Parents are at fault initially.  If the shrink is good, parents would know what they know.  I have also said that a lot of these issues can be fixed by resolving the family dynamic.   If a gun dealer fails to do a background check, then it is indeed their fault.  If the FBI/Police ignore reports, then it is their fault. Depends really who dropped the ball.  Pretty much every one of these cases, the parents, police, shrinks, dealers, and others ignored the warning signs.  These incidents could have been avoided.

 

[Skiver Veteran]

3 hours ago, techbeck said:

Parents are at fault initially.  If the shrink is good, parents would know what they know.  I have also said that a lot of these issues can be fixed by resolving the family dynamic.   If a gun dealer fails to do a background check, then it is indeed their fault.  If the FBI/Police ignore reports, then it is their fault. Depends really who dropped the ball.  Pretty much every one of these cases, the parents, police, shrinks, dealers, and others ignored the warning signs.  These incidents could have been avoided.

 

I believe the person responsible here was 24, surely as an adult the parents would only know what their son told them? I would have thought patient confidentiality would prevent the shrink from saying anything to the parents?

 

I think it's unfair (in this case) to blame the parents for their adult son/daughter's actions.