Sony and Marvel split over Spider-Man

[dipsylalapo Supervisor]

So alongside a new Matrix film and the naming of the Bond film. We have some sad news.

 

Quote

Sony says it's "disappointed" not to be working with Disney on future Spider-Man films.

 

We might not see actor Tom Holland in new Marvel movies, because a fresh deal can't be reached over the character.

 

Film rights for the superhero are owned by Sony - and he was able to appear in movies like Avengers: Endgame because of a deal between Sony and Marvel Studios - owned by Disney.

Sony says it hopes things "might change in future".

 

In a series of tweets, Sony referenced Kevin Feige, the President of Marvel Studios, thanking him for his "help and guidance".

Source

 

I really liked Tom Holland has Spider-Man and given how things were left after End Game, I'm yet to watch Far from Home, I felt that Spider-Man was going to play a large part in the future films. 

 

Marvel should just give Sony a large cheque to get Spider-Man back. I feel like they'd make whatever they paid Sony over a number of times

[George P Global Moderator]

I haven't read up on the nitty gritty but I think Disney wanted a new deal and 50% of the profits.  Sure you could argue that they're doing most of the work and Sony should pay up, but hold on fellas.  Going from 5% up to 50% is huge, any one of you would back away from the table, I know I would.

 

Disney already has a ###### tone of money, and to me they just sound greedy as hell.  They'll also try and spin this to win fan support.  Expect the spiderman fans to start attacking Sony online like rabid dogs.

 

Maybe if Disney asked for, I don't know, 15% we'd have a deal?    And who said you can't use Tom in the next one?  Heck, if Sony was smart they'd go full R with Venom 2 which should introduce Carnage, then bam, 3 way fight with Spiderman, venom and carnage for the next Spiderman movie.    All in NYC, you don't need the rest of the MCU to show up, and I'd watch it.  Hell, lots of spiderman fans would see it.   For all the hate Venom gets from some fans the thing made over $850million world wide, Sony can work around Disney and the MCU after this point.

[Innervisions33]

Terrible news.  

 

 

The only silver lining to this is that we'll see and end to the stupid...

 

Spoiler

Aunt May/Happy romance.... 

 

and less Jon Favreau in movies.  That guy sucks.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

with the way Far From Home ended Tom Holland's Spider-Man was DEFINITELY going to play a larger part in future films so I'm ###### about this.

 

It sounds like Sony was greedy and trying to get even more money; too much that Disney didn't find it worth it anymore.

 

Sony is getting a LOT of deserved flack for this and I'm not hopeful for future Spider-Man films again

7 hours ago, George P said:

I haven't read up on the nitty gritty but I think Disney wanted a new deal and 50% of the profits.  Sure you could argue that they're doing most of the work and Sony should pay up, but hold on fellas.  Going from 5% up to 50% is huge, any one of you would back away from the table, I know I would.

 

Disney already has a ###### tone of money, and to me they just sound greedy as hell.  They'll also try and spin this to win fan support.  Expect the spiderman fans to start attacking Sony online like rabid dogs.

 

Maybe if Disney asked for, I don't know, 15% we'd have a deal?    And who said you can't use Tom in the next one?  Heck, if Sony was smart they'd go full R with Venom 2 which should introduce Carnage, then bam, 3 way fight with Spiderman, venom and carnage for the next Spiderman movie.    All in NYC, you don't need the rest of the MCU to show up, and I'd watch it.  Hell, lots of spiderman fans would see it.   For all the hate Venom gets from some fans the thing made over $850million world wide, Sony can work around Disney and the MCU after this point.

Sony should just release the rights; they couldn't put out a good Spider-Man film until Disney/Marvel took over the reins. just look at how many times they tried and failed at Spider-Man reboots. I'm not hopeful for their future projects either without Disney/Marvel being involved ...

[Peresvet]

1 minute ago, Brandon H said:

It sounds like Sony was greedy and trying to get even more money; too much that Disney didn't find it worth it anymore.

 

Sony is getting a LOT of deserved flack for this 

+1

 

 

 

 

[Clirion]

8 hours ago, George P said:

I haven't read up on the nitty gritty but I think Disney wanted a new deal and 50% of the profits.  Sure you could argue that they're doing most of the work and Sony should pay up, but hold on fellas.  Going from 5% up to 50% is huge, any one of you would back away from the table, I know I would.

 

Disney already has a ###### tone of money, and to me they just sound greedy as hell.  They'll also try and spin this to win fan support.  Expect the spiderman fans to start attacking Sony online like rabid dogs.

 

Maybe if Disney asked for, I don't know, 15% we'd have a deal?    And who said you can't use Tom in the next one?  Heck, if Sony was smart they'd go full R with Venom 2 which should introduce Carnage, then bam, 3 way fight with Spiderman, venom and carnage for the next Spiderman movie.    All in NYC, you don't need the rest of the MCU to show up, and I'd watch it.  Hell, lots of spiderman fans would see it.   For all the hate Venom gets from some fans the thing made over $850million world wide, Sony can work around Disney and the MCU after this point.

The rest of the Nitty Gritty was that Disney was going to front 50% of cost of production as well.  That is why they wanted to go from 5% to 50% of the front dollars.  It was not that they would not put extra risk in there. 

Sony has has a tone of money as well, they wanted to take the 50% upfront cost and only go to with 15% of the front dollars in return.  Sony looks like they were a shade more greedy here.

 

[George P Global Moderator]

9 minutes ago, Clirion said:

The rest of the Nitty Gritty was that Disney was going to front 50% of cost of production as well.  That is why they wanted to go from 5% to 50% of the front dollars.  It was not that they would not put extra risk in there. 

Sony has has a tone of money as well, they wanted to take the 50% upfront cost and only go to with 15% of the front dollars in return.  Sony looks like they were a shade more greedy here.

 

You can debate about what's fair and not all night here, but let's be real for a minute.  50% of the production cost is no where near 50% of the profits for these movies.  Look at the last film, $160mil budget,  so that'd be $80mil upfront.  The movie made $1.109 billion world wide, so you'd give them back over $550 million?  Really?  Percentages are funky like that you know.     In what type of business deal would you go with that kind of agreement?  And you say Sony is being greedy?  Let's leave percentages out of it and go with solid numbers,  Disney could give $80mil, and get say $200mil from the profits, would that not be fair to?

 

And let's not get crazy here, homecoming and far from home, IMO, were average superhero flicks.  I'd give them both, at best, a 7.5/10.  Money wise, Venom, hate it or love it, as I said, made over $850mil world wide, and Sony was alone on it.  Into the Spider-verse?  big hit, Sony did that alone as well.   You guys should step back and take off the MCU fan hats for a minute.

[Innervisions33]

1 hour ago, Brandon H said:

 

Sony should just release the rights; they couldn't put out a good Spider-Man film until Disney/Marvel took over the reins. 

 

Spiderman 1 and 2 with Tobey were both very good.  It was downhill after that.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

1 hour ago, Clirion said:

The rest of the Nitty Gritty was that Disney was going to front 50% of cost of production as well.  That is why they wanted to go from 5% to 50% of the front dollars.  It was not that they would not put extra risk in there. 

Sony has has a tone of money as well, they wanted to take the 50% upfront cost and only go to with 15% of the front dollars in return.  Sony looks like they were a shade more greedy here.

 

I don't honestly blame Disney for asking 50% if they were doing most of the work while Sony just tagged their name on the movies

[trag3dy]

11 hours ago, Brandon H said:

with the way Far From Home ended Tom Holland's Spider-Man was DEFINITELY going to play a larger part in future films so I'm ###### about this.

 

It sounds like Sony was greedy and trying to get even more money; too much that Disney didn't find it worth it anymore.

 

Sony is getting a LOT of deserved flack for this and I'm not hopeful for future Spider-Man films again

Sony should just release the rights; they couldn't put out a good Spider-Man film until Disney/Marvel took over the reins. just look at how many times they tried and failed at Spider-Man reboots. I'm not hopeful for their future projects either without Disney/Marvel being involved ...

The Andrew Garfield spider man movies were okay but not very memorable. But I very much like Tom Holland as spider man, he fits the role well and he's pretty young so he can grow along with the character.

[Clirion]

17 hours ago, George P said:

You can debate about what's fair and not all night here, but let's be real for a minute.  50% of the production cost is no where near 50% of the profits for these movies.  Look at the last film, $160mil budget,  so that'd be $80mil upfront.  The movie made $1.109 billion world wide, so you'd give them back over $550 million?  Really?  Percentages are funky like that you know.     In what type of business deal would you go with that kind of agreement?  And you say Sony is being greedy?  Let's leave percentages out of it and go with solid numbers,  Disney could give $80mil, and get say $200mil from the profits, would that not be fair to?

 

And let's not get crazy here, homecoming and far from home, IMO, were average superhero flicks.  I'd give them both, at best, a 7.5/10.  Money wise, Venom, hate it or love it, as I said, made over $850mil world wide, and Sony was alone on it.  Into the Spider-verse?  big hit, Sony did that alone as well.   You guys should step back and take off the MCU fan hats for a minute.

Let step back and look at this for a minute.  The discussion was about co producing movies and having Marvel Studios have input into the movies.  They would foot half the production costs an would like half the profits.  IF you are going to assign a greed hat, it goes to Sony.,

 

I honestly believe if you are I were going to do a joint venture, and we both put up half, you would not let me keep 95% of the profits.

 

Now if the discussion is just about Sony thinking they are better off doing Spiderman without Marvel Studio input, that is a different discussion,.  That seems to be where you are at with this.  I really do not find fault in Marvel Studios wanting to try and secure input and use of one of the main properties of their comic book line for their movies.  I also cannot fault Sony for going, naaa I think we will do this alone again, but thanks.

 

The premise was greed, not IP contract discussions.   

[Gotenks98]

Disney is just going to have to buy Sony. It is not like they don't have the money to do it.

[George P Global Moderator]

7 hours ago, Clirion said:

Let step back and look at this for a minute.  The discussion was about co producing movies and having Marvel Studios have input into the movies.  They would foot half the production costs an would like half the profits.  IF you are going to assign a greed hat, it goes to Sony.,

 

I honestly believe if you are I were going to do a joint venture, and we both put up half, you would not let me keep 95% of the profits.

 

Now if the discussion is just about Sony thinking they are better off doing Spiderman without Marvel Studio input, that is a different discussion,.  That seems to be where you are at with this.  I really do not find fault in Marvel Studios wanting to try and secure input and use of one of the main properties of their comic book line for their movies.  I also cannot fault Sony for going, naaa I think we will do this alone again, but thanks.

 

The premise was greed, not IP contract discussions.   

Disney gets a chunk out of Spider-man without Sony, we're simply talking about the movies here.  Sony gets zero from any Spider-man merchandise, and while you may think it's fair to put up half and expect half the profits, it's not.    This isn't the start of a joint venture with something new.   And while I agree Marvel/Disney should get more after putting they're input into the movies, half is greedy either way.  Like I said, look at the raw numbers, not the percentages.    There's also an argument to be made for who walked away from who?  Did Disney just drop the 50% line and not bother to budge?  Did Sony not bother to counter their offer?  We don't have the details.

 

One thing that is clear is that Disney leaked this news to the media in a underhanded move to push all the blame on Sony and win fan support.  The way it looks online, fans are split, Disney has tones of money and they could just as well ask for 20% and get a deal done.  Sony is within their rights, as a business, to find a deal not fair and walk away.    These talks are for future phase 5 movies anyways, the next movie up is still under contract from what I've heard.  Though Disney could be dicks about it and pull their creative people out, basically take their ball and go home.

 

 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

5 hours ago, Gotenks98 said:

Disney is just going to have to buy Sony. It is not like they don't have the money to do it.

I wouldn't doubt if that happens eventually (at least Sony Pictures Entertainment)

[Clirion]

1 hour ago, George P said:

Disney gets a chunk out of Spider-man without Sony, we're simply talking about the movies here.  Sony gets zero from any Spider-man merchandise, and while you may think it's fair to put up half and expect half the profits, it's not.    This isn't the start of a joint venture with something new.   And while I agree Marvel/Disney should get more after putting they're input into the movies, half is greedy either way.  Like I said, look at the raw numbers, not the percentages.    There's also an argument to be made for who walked away from who?  Did Disney just drop the 50% line and not bother to budge?  Did Sony not bother to counter their offer?  We don't have the details.

 

One thing that is clear is that Disney leaked this news to the media in a underhanded move to push all the blame on Sony and win fan support.  The way it looks online, fans are split, Disney has tones of money and they could just as well ask for 20% and get a deal done.  Sony is within their rights, as a business, to find a deal not fair and walk away.    These talks are for future phase 5 movies anyways, the next movie up is still under contract from what I've heard.  Though Disney could be dicks about it and pull their creative people out, basically take their ball and go home.

 

 

 

"Sony is within their rights, as a business, to find a deal not fair and walk away"   In that you and I both agree.  This is not about the contract that Sony has Spider-man Movies.  I also believe they are well within their rights to walk away.  

 

 

Here is what the current deal is:  (Circa the deal struck in 2011, after the 1999 deal that does box office split of 5%)

• Sony has complete control of the Spider-Man Universe.
• Sony gets all box office receipts.
• Marvel Comics division gets 35 Million dollars.
• Marvel Merchandising gets all merchandising proceeds. 

Results, some good movies. Some bad movies and a sagging Spiderverse at Sony.

 

In 2015, the deal is :

 

Spider-man would be available for Three MCU movies and Three Solo Movies. 

• MCU Movie: Captain America Civil War: (Disney 100% of Box office.)
• Sony Movie: Homecoming : (Sony 100% of the Box office.)
• MCU Movie: Avengers Infinity Gauntlet (Disney 100% of Box office.)
• MCU Movie: Avengers Endgame (Disney 100% of Box office.)
• Sony Movie: Far from Home (Sony 100% box office.)  (*need verification of this - Paid Disney 175 million to shoot and product the film, Sony played distributor.)

 

So this is actually a new deal that would be struck.  In that new deal, Disney offered 50/50.  Sony thinks they will be better now that Spidey was revived from participation in MCU. Venom did quite well and if they carry in that same vein, Silver Sable and Black Cat give them some interesting characters to work with.

 

 

 

 

 

[+primortal Subscriber²]

Sony and Disney kissed and made up

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/sony-marvel-make-up-companies-will-produce-third-spider-man-film/ar-AAHWiBx?ocid=anaheimntp

Quote

The new deal was signed late on Thursday night. Negotiations involved top players from both studios, including Sony Pictures chief Tom Rothman, Feige, and Walt Disney Studios head Alan Horn. In exchange for lending Feige’s producing prowess, Marvel and Disney will receive roughly 25% of the profits, according to insiders. Disney will retain its merchandising rights. As part of the arrangement, Spider-Man will also appear in one future Marvel Studios film.

 

[George P Global Moderator]

In the end Marvel/Disney will get most of the money from Spider-man, even if it's just 25% of the movies profits, they still get all the damn merch, which is a hell of a lot more than ticket sales.  Sony is dumb, in a way, for not getting any piece of the merchandise.     Hell that alone and then Disney wanting 50% to, I'd have walked away also.  Man this 25% is huge, makes you wonder just what Sony ends up with when it's all said and done.    On the flip side, they do get to keep everything from the other spider-verse films like venom.

 

Sorry guys but I bet this next movie is actually going to be it for this and they'll call it quits after, again.   If Sony can build the other spider-verse projects up, they won't need to stick to the MCU later on.