Your USB3 drive would be quicker if you put it in a USB3 slot....(but it is!!!)

[Technique]

Ok so I had a Seagate External hard drive 4TB desktop & I connected it to the rear of the PC in to the USB3 slot that's on the motherboard using the devices USB3 cable. All good.

Actually to give a full picture, I connected it to the USB2 slot on the top of the PC, it told me I could get quicker speeds connecting it to the USB3 slot, I figured yeah I'm going to need that for this job so that's what I did. Connect to USB3 slot - no 'problem' message.

 

I then have a USB3 Kingston DataTraveler 64GB flash drive. I connect that direct in to the exact same USB3 slot (& then the other USB3 slot next to it & then the USB3 slots that are part of the 10-in-1 drive thing on the front) and it tells me it'll be quicker if I connect it to a USB3 slot ..... on all slots used.

 

What gives?

[DKAngel]

maybe they arnt usb3 slots? 😛

[+DonC Subscriber²]

The way I check things like this is to find the device in Device Manager and then (with the device selected) choose "Devices by connection" in the View menu.

 

That will show you the hierachy of device drivers involved, which often has helpful labels showing you the USB version (e.g. 3, SuperSpeed, etc.)

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

some motherboards require a 'high speed' USB header to get the 3.0 speeds. you could double check that the USB ports in question are plugged into the right header on the motherboard. Also, check the BIOS settings. Sometimes there are options to change the speed of the USB ports. As always, check your motherboard drivers/firmware. check for OS updates or the like.

 

have you done a quick benchmark when plugged into a USB 3.0 port?

[Technique]

On 06/07/2022 at 12:06, DKAngel said:

maybe they arnt usb3 slots? 😛

Maybe the earth is flat

 

On 06/07/2022 at 13:19, DonC said:

The way I check things like this is to find the device in Device Manager and then (with the device selected) choose "Devices by connection" in the View menu.

 

That will show you the hierachy of device drivers involved, which often has helpful labels showing you the USB version (e.g. 3, SuperSpeed, etc.)

On 06/07/2022 at 13:34, Jason S. said:

some motherboards require a 'high speed' USB header to get the 3.0 speeds. you could double check that the USB ports in question are plugged into the right header on the motherboard. Also, check the BIOS settings. Sometimes there are options to change the speed of the USB ports. As always, check your motherboard drivers/firmware. check for OS updates or the like.

 

have you done a quick benchmark when plugged into a USB 3.0 port?

Ok this is where my ignorance shines through...

 

Because I read what you say & my instant reaction is ..... BUT the Seagate external drive with its USB3 cable connected at USB3 speed.

 

So then, why does the DataTraveler USB3 stick, inserted in to the exact same USB slot as the Seagate one previously, not connect at USB3 speed?

 

It makes no sense (to me).

 

On 06/07/2022 at 13:34, Jason S. said:

have you done a quick benchmark when plugged into a USB 3.0 port?

I wouldn't know how to

[+mram Subscriber²]

I'm confused just by reading the title of this thread and trying to figure out what is going on here.

 

If you're saying the USB3 item is faster in a USB **2** port, then ok, and that's possibly used to the driver support, bus support, hardware support, etc.  True full support of USB **3** should provide the best speed in optimal situations with the correct cabling, etc.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

OP - why does your PC look like a VM?

[Brandon H Supervisor]

On 06/07/2022 at 07:54, Technique said:

why does the DataTraveler USB3 stick, inserted in to the exact same USB slot as the Seagate one previously, not connect at USB3 speed?

So you're saying Drive1 gets full speeds in the USB port but Drive2 does not in the same port?

 

If I'm understanding that correctly then it sounds like the issue may not be with your computer but the drive in question. The cable could have a fault or the connecter may have a bad lead or something. not bad enough issue to kill the connection entirely but enough to make it fall back to 2.0 connectivity.

[Technique]

On 06/07/2022 at 14:02, mram said:

I'm confused just by reading the title of this thread and trying to figure out what is going on here.

It's always best to read the post itself & not go purely off the title.

 

However, even if you didn't read the post itself, the thread title sums it up perfectly. Let me go over it...

 

"Your USB3 drive would be quicker if you put it in a USB3 slot....(but it is!!!)"

 

So basically the PC is telling me your USB3 drive (so my Kingston drive" would be quicker if I put it in a USB3 slot (I assume it's telling me I've put it in a 2.0 slot) ...... (but it is!!!) ... as in, but it IS in a 3.0 slot. So why is it telling me to put it in a 3.0 slot if it is in one?

 

Title seems pretty clear.

On 06/07/2022 at 14:02, mram said:

 

If you're saying the USB3 item is faster in a USB **2** port, then ok, and that's possibly used to the driver support, bus support, hardware support, etc.  True full support of USB **3** should provide the best speed in optimal situations with the correct cabling, etc.

No I'm not saying that. My post even says what I'm saying. I think I even said it twice.

 

On 06/07/2022 at 14:08, Jason S. said:

OP - why does your PC look like a VM?

If you're referring to the attachment I quoted DonC with then no idea, I just did exactly what he said.

Device manager, left clicked the device (Kingston Data Traveler), then clicked view & chose by connection as he said.

 

Though I do have a funny feeling where your confusion is based but it's quite bad so I'll not say in case it isn't.

 

On 06/07/2022 at 14:18, Brandon H said:

So you're saying Drive1 gets full speeds in the USB port but Drive2 does not in the same port?

Not sure how I could be seen as saying anything else tbh. I thought it was quite clear.

 

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.

On 06/07/2022 at 14:18, Brandon H said:

 

If I'm understanding that correctly then it sounds like the issue may not be with your computer but the drive in question. The cable could have a fault or the connecter may have a bad lead or something. not bad enough issue to kill the connection entirely but enough to make it fall back to 2.0 connectivity.

The annoying thing is, I've literally just now collected a brand new hard drive from the post office.

 

Can't get the damn thing to show up in Computer (it's a WD Elements drive). I'm using the exact same cable that worked with the Seagate - the one that provided USB3.0 speeds for the Seagate (and the cable which is actually a WD cable) BUT now it's telling me to plug it in to a USB3 port - when I'm using the same one that worked previously.

 

It's as though it decides as and when it wants to provide USB3.0 speeds.

 

 

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

On 06/07/2022 at 08:18, Brandon H said:

So you're saying Drive1 gets full speeds in the USB port but Drive2 does not in the same port?

 

If I'm understanding that correctly then it sounds like the issue may not be with your computer but the drive in question. The cable could have a fault or the connecter may have a bad lead or something. not bad enough issue to kill the connection entirely but enough to make it fall back to 2.0 connectivity.

Yeah, it depends on the controller PCB on these devices, too..

[+BudMan MVC]

If you change your device manager view to "by connection" you can see what usb hub, controller they are showing up under

 

 

You can see couple of drives there connected via a DAS, and then a usb stick plugged in, they are via the usb3 hub on the 3.1 controller.

 

When you say your new usb disk doesn't show up - is not even showing like that, or maybe the drive just not init or formatted, you can do that under disk management, if you just search on windows for disk it should popup in the search for part/format

 

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

IIRC, USB hubs share bandwidth, so if you have 2 storage devices on the same root hub, they will BOTH share the same bandwidth and will thus slow down...

[+Matthew S. Subscriber²]

Are you sure the Kingston is seating all the way in the port?  if you don't engage the extra 5 pins on a USB3 device it's automatically fall back to USB2.0

 

If it's the slide type usb thumbdrive, those are notorious for making you think you've seated it all the way but instead have slid back some and having engaged the extra 3.0 pins.

On 06/07/2022 at 15:40, FloatingFatMan said:

IIRC, USB hubs share bandwidth, so if you have 2 storage devices on the same root hub, they will BOTH share the same bandwidth and will thus slow down...

It may be a shared bus, but that shouldn't make it ident as a USB2.0 device, mind you as long as that is hooked up to the right header on the mother board (should be a blue 20 pin header I believe) than might be an in BIOS issue or a dud of a drive.

[nekrosoft13]

HWiNFO would be easier to check...

 

open hwinfo

 

find your usb device under ports, on right size it will show you what the device supports, and then it will show you what it currently runs at.

 

[goretsky Supervisor]

Hello,

Just to check, are the USB 3.0 device drivers properly installed for your motherboard's (or USB 3.x to PCIe expansion card's) chipset? 

Windows 7 did not natively support USB 3.0 when it came out, so third party device drivers from a company like ALI, ASmedia, Etron, Fresco Logic, Intel, Renasys (formerly NEC), ST Microelectronics, VIA or whomever made the USB chipset being used need to first be installed.  I can't help but wonder if the correct drivers are not completely or correctly installed, which might account for the weird USB 2/USB 2 device mis-identification.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky


 

[Technique]

On 07/07/2022 at 08:21, goretsky said:

Hello,

Just to check, are the USB 3.0 device drivers properly installed for your motherboard's (or USB 3.x to PCIe expansion card's) chipset? 

Windows 7 did not natively support USB 3.0 when it came out, so third party device drivers from a company like ALI, ASmedia, Etron, Fresco Logic, Intel, Renasys (formerly NEC), ST Microelectronics, VIA or whomever made the USB chipset being used need to first be installed.  I can't help but wonder if the correct drivers are not completely or correctly installed, which might account for the weird USB 2/USB 2 device mis-identification.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky


 

I'm just in the middle of copying over a ton of files so as this one is the easiest for me to answer I'll do this one now & I'll get to the others another time. Thanks to all by the way.

 

goretsky, if that's the case, would I still experience some devices connecting at USB3 and some at USB2 (note: all devices I'm talking about are USB3 devices), or if what you said is the case then would they ALL connect at USB2?

 

Because as I say, sometimes it's 3, sometimes it's 2.

 

Someone mentioned something which triggered a thought - I have one of them Akasa 10-in-1 drives, or however many in 1 drives. On it are USB3 ports & it required a USB3 cable connecting but this motherboard never had a port for it so I had to buy a card which supplied a port.

That wouldn't make a difference would it?

 

I don't imagine so because it's permanently fixed. I could understand if it was an attachable/detachable thing & every time it was connected then we had this issue, but it stays connected & the USB3 connection is so intermittent.

[goretsky Supervisor]

Hello,

I have not seen this problem before, so it is a guess on my part as to what it happening.  I did not see anything I recognize as USB 3 drivers in the screenshot of the Device Manager from Windows 7, and as @Jason S. noted, there appear to be VMware's drivers in place, hence my thought about about improperly installed or missing drivers.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky
 

[Technique]

On 08/07/2022 at 07:05, goretsky said:

there appear to be VMware's drivers in place,

Yeah I see all that. Not sure what that means.

I mean, I have VMware Workstation Player 12 installed, but I haven't used it in forever.

 

On 06/07/2022 at 14:43, Technique said:

Though I do have a funny feeling where your confusion is based but it's quite bad so I'll not say in case it isn't.

 

 

Ok I'll elaborate on this in case it is actually a thing.

Could it be that I'm in Windows 7 right now and not Windows 10? (in case Win10 would show anything different?!)

So you would be expecting Win10-type screenshots because 'everyone' (except me at the moment) is on Windows 10, so when you're seeing Win7 shots, it's confusing you??

 

Or is that not a possibility?

 

 

 

That's my clicking process. I click that, that then that.

 

And right now I have a USB3 flash drive (different one to previous, bought only last month) inserted in to a USB3 port at the rear of the machine which is a port on the motherboard.

[Technique]

On 06/07/2022 at 21:48, nekrosoft13 said:

HWiNFO would be easier to check...

 

 

Thanks

 

This drive is actually connecting at USB3...

 

[nekrosoft13]

On 07/07/2022 at 12:01, Technique said:

I'm just in the middle of copying over a ton of files so as this one is the easiest for me to answer I'll do this one now & I'll get to the others another time. Thanks to all by the way.

 

goretsky, if that's the case, would I still experience some devices connecting at USB3 and some at USB2 (note: all devices I'm talking about are USB3 devices), or if what you said is the case then would they ALL connect at USB2?

 

Because as I say, sometimes it's 3, sometimes it's 2.

 

Someone mentioned something which triggered a thought - I have one of them Akasa 10-in-1 drives, or however many in 1 drives. On it are USB3 ports & it required a USB3 cable connecting but this motherboard never had a port for it so I had to buy a card which supplied a port.

That wouldn't make a difference would it?

 

I don't imagine so because it's permanently fixed. I could understand if it was an attachable/detachable thing & every time it was connected then we had this issue, but it stays connected & the USB3 connection is so intermittent.

this looks like a really old system

 

This is a common issue, here are possible causes:

1) your flash drive has either dirt/lint in the connector or damaged connector, damaged/worn pins

2) your motherboard/case has damaged connector/worn pins

3) something in either flash drive or the port is obstructing you from making a good contact

 

Below you can see why.

This is a breakdown of USB 3.x connectors, the first 4 larger pins are for 2.0 connectivity.

The other 5 pins further down in the connector are for USB 3.x connectivity, for USB 3.0 to work, you need to have contact with all 9 pins.

 

If you sometimes get USB 3.0 and sometimes USB 2.0, you are not making a reliable contact with all 9 pins.

you can test that by taking a USB 3.x flash drive and slowly insert it into USB 3.0 port, if you only contact first 4 pins your drive will have usb 2.0 speed only.

 

The USB 3.0 pins in the back of connector from personal experience are a lot more fragile, they can corrode, or get lint stuck in them, or simply wear out.

I also see you are using a Sandisk flash drive, I have a Sandisk Ultra 256GB USB 3.2 flash drive, I usually buy a new one every year, as after about year or two I'm starting to have USB 3.x connectivity issues.

I use that drive for work, and it gets plugged in probably 5-10 times a day, so after 3500-7000 insertions the pins on the flash drive start acting up.

 

so bottom line:

If you have dirt or lint in port or flash drive clean it out

If you have worn pins in flash drive, get a new one or RMA it

If you have a worn pins on back of motherboard use different port or get a new motherboard

If you have worn pins on front of case, replace the usb i/o harness cable

 

 

[Technique]

I'm just about to leave the house for the cinema, so I'll read your post when I get back.

 

Just real quick - I just returned from a quick nip out to the takeaway & I'd put the PC to sleep. I've just 'woken' it & got a message saying the device can perform faster - the exact same one that I hadn't removed from the USB3 drive that was earlier reporting USB3 speeds.

 

 

I'm sure that'll make more sense to you guys than me why it's suddenly switched down to USB2.0 speeds without even being touched.

[+BudMan MVC]

On 08/07/2022 at 12:45, Technique said:

without even being touched

You put it to sleep - that is touching it

 

When it woke up it had prob was in low power mode and for whatever reason it only came up 2, Prob another handshake etc. and if the port was in low power mode prob maybe best could do was 2.0

 

Your info there is saying its (connected to usb2 port)

 

Why did put it to sleep if you just going to the store for a few minutes?  What did you save in electric like 1/10 of a cent

 

Just curious - why are you running a OS that is 2 some years after complete even extended support EOL? Does this hardware not support 10?  Or put linux on the thing so you can be current with features and security.  Been a few years for sure since did anything with 7, but from what I recall usb 3 on it was never a stable thing, and you had to really install 3rd party drivers, etc I believe that has been mentioned already.

 

 

[NinjaGinger]

Are not USB slots blue and USB 2 slots black.

[ThaCrip]

Just a quick tip: assuming your hardware supports Windows 10, it can still be upgraded to it for free the last I knew using the Media Creation Tool from Microsoft. at least then we can remove Windows 7 from the equation and you will be at modern OS standards.

 

so basically I suggest running the Media Creation Tool, upgrade, confirm Win10 is activated, then use the Win10 ISO (which you can also download using that Media Creation Tool) and wipe your hard drive and install Win10 clean and then your computer should be in optimal running order.

 

if your hardware does not support Windows 10, then you pretty much got two options... continue using Windows 7 or try Linux (I suggest Linux Mint as it's one of the safer options on Linux).

 

hell, a simple enough thing to try which should not be time consuming... I would try Linux from say a bootable USB stick and play around with the USB 3 connection a bit here and see what happens.

[Technique]

On 08/07/2022 at 19:45, BudMan said:

You put it to sleep - that is touching it

Fair enough

On 08/07/2022 at 19:45, BudMan said:

 

When it woke up it had prob was in low power mode and for whatever reason it only came up 2, Prob another handshake etc. and if the port was in low power mode prob maybe best could do was 2.0

 

Your info there is saying its (connected to usb2 port)

And I'm saying that I never touched the physical USB flash drive. As in, it was in a USB3 port beforehand & it remained there. I never physically took it out of the USB3 port and put it in a USB2 port. I left it in the USB3 port.

 

Alternatively, anyone is welcome to think I am lying about that, but really, why would I?!

 

 

On 08/07/2022 at 19:45, BudMan said:

 

Why did put it to sleep if you just going to the store for a few minutes?  What did you save in electric like 1/10 of a cent

Wrong end of the stick there buddy.

 

I put it to sleep a good bit before going to the chip shop.

I said I had just returned and that I had put the PC to sleep.

I never said, I put the PC to sleep right before I left.

"I'd put the PC to sleep" could've been anything from 10 seconds before leaving the house to 10 days+ before leaving the house.

On 08/07/2022 at 19:45, BudMan said:

 

Just curious - why are you running a OS that is 2 some years after complete even extended support EOL? Does this hardware not support 10? 

As said - I'm making the move to Windows 10 anyway.

 

But to answer why it's taken me this long - I like Windows 7. Simple as that.

On 08/07/2022 at 19:45, BudMan said:

 

 

Or put linux on the thing so you can be current with features and security.  Been a few years for sure since did anything with 7, but from what I recall usb 3 on it was never a stable thing, and you had to really install 3rd party drivers, etc I believe that has been mentioned already.

 

 

Haha Linux. Yeah, tried that. It didn't like it for some reason.

Even removed all other drives & connected 1 drive only to try and put Linux on it. Just didn't work. PC wouldn't boot in to Linux.

 

Latest Mint version to be specific.

On 08/07/2022 at 20:15, NinjaGinger said:

Are not USB slots blue and USB 2 slots black.

Is that I was thinking.

 

If you want I can provide photos of the slots I am using as well as the drive I am using as well as the motherboard documentation.

 

Alternatively we can stop this messing around & just accept the fact I am putting a USB3 drive in to a USB3 port.