Your USB3 drive would be quicker if you put it in a USB3 slot....(but it is!!!)

[Technique]

On 08/07/2022 at 20:51, ThaCrip said:

Just a quick tip: assuming your hardware supports Windows 10, it can still be upgraded to it for free the last I knew using the Media Creation Tool from Microsoft. at least then we can remove Windows 7 from the equation and you will be at modern OS standards.

 

so basically I suggest running the Media Creation Tool, upgrade, confirm Win10 is activated, then use the Win10 ISO (which you can also download using that Media Creation Tool) and wipe your hard drive and install Win10 clean and then your computer should be in optimal running order.

 

if your hardware does not support Windows 10, then you pretty much got two options... continue using Windows 7 or try Linux (I suggest Linux Mint as it's one of the safer options on Linux).

 

hell, a simple enough thing to try which should not be time consuming... I would try Linux from say a bootable USB stick and play around with the USB 3 connection a bit here and see what happens.

As previous - I'm making the move to Windows 10 anyway.

 

Spent this afternoon setting a new phone up. Had the cinema to go to.

 

Tomorrow I should make a start on finalising the Win10 setup.

 

But as for Linux ... yeah, as previous. Didn't go well. I was ideally wanting a Win10 & Linux dual boot. As it didn't work, it'll have to be Win10 only.

[Technique]

On 08/07/2022 at 14:46, nekrosoft13 said:

this looks like a really old system

 

This is a common issue, here are possible causes:

1) your flash drive has either dirt/lint in the connector or damaged connector, damaged/worn pins

Unlikely because then a lot of drives would have to have bent pins.

On 08/07/2022 at 14:46, nekrosoft13 said:

2) your motherboard/case has damaged connector/worn pins

More likely, but then both USB3 ports would have to be damaged as I've tried both.

On 08/07/2022 at 14:46, nekrosoft13 said:

3) something in either flash drive or the port is obstructing you from making a good contact

Possible. I recently got to the bottom of a Sata port on the motherboard not working. I only removed a cable while using compressed air on everything. Couldn't understand why it then wouldn't work (wouldn't show a drive).

 

Squirted some WD40 electrical contact spray on it & voila, it works.

 

Will try the same on the USB3 port.

On 08/07/2022 at 14:46, nekrosoft13 said:

 

Below you can see why.

This is a breakdown of USB 3.x connectors, the first 4 larger pins are for 2.0 connectivity.

The other 5 pins further down in the connector are for USB 3.x connectivity, for USB 3.0 to work, you need to have contact with all 9 pins.

 

If you sometimes get USB 3.0 and sometimes USB 2.0, you are not making a reliable contact with all 9 pins.

you can test that by taking a USB 3.x flash drive and slowly insert it into USB 3.0 port, if you only contact first 4 pins your drive will have usb 2.0 speed only.

 

The USB 3.0 pins in the back of connector from personal experience are a lot more fragile, they can corrode, or get lint stuck in them, or simply wear out.

I also see you are using a Sandisk flash drive, I have a Sandisk Ultra 256GB USB 3.2 flash drive, I usually buy a new one every year, as after about year or two I'm starting to have USB 3.x connectivity issues.

I use that drive for work, and it gets plugged in probably 5-10 times a day, so after 3500-7000 insertions the pins on the flash drive start acting up.

Yours gets plugged 5-10 times a day.

 

Mine generally doesn't even get that in a year.

 

I have various Kingston & Sandisk flash drives.

Plus Seagate desktop hard drives

Plus WD desktop hard drives

Plus various WD portable drives.

 

The issue affects all - which tells me it's more PC based than drive based.

On 08/07/2022 at 14:46, nekrosoft13 said:

 

so bottom line:

If you have dirt or lint in port or flash drive clean it out

If you have worn pins in flash drive, get a new one or RMA it

If you have a worn pins on back of motherboard use different port or get a new motherboard

If you have worn pins on front of case, replace the usb i/o harness cable

 

 

 

[ThaCrip]

On 08/07/2022 at 17:49, Technique said:

Tomorrow I should make a start on finalising the Win10 setup.

Good

 

that's a much safer choice than Windows 7 at this point in time since it's still officially supported.

 

On 08/07/2022 at 17:49, Technique said:

But as for Linux ... yeah, as previous. Didn't go well. I was ideally wanting a Win10 & Linux dual boot. As it didn't work, it'll have to be Win10 only.

 

Yeah, I am not a fan of dual-boot personally. I would either just install Windows (with usual NTFS file system) or just install Linux (with it's usual EXT4 file system). it's safer this way.

 

but honestly, depending on what you need on your computer, something like Linux Mint might eventually end up on that computer anyways given Windows 10 support ends Oct 2025 and since Win11 ain't a real option on that computer (as is the case with most computers right now), Linux will probably eventually end up on your machine at some point ; but at least for the next few years you can use Windows if you want. Linux Mint v21.0 is likely to be released sometime this month and it will likely be supported until April 2027 assuming their usual pattern holds up. Mint v20.x series is supported until April 2025. that's a solid bonus with Mint is it gives 5 years of support (well pretty much 5 years) where as it seems many other Linux variations are about 2-3 years.

 

so just as a simple example... if you mainly just use it as a internet machine, and maybe a bit beyond this, I would switch to Linux right now (or at least get a bit more familiar with it in a virtual machine so when you install it on your hardware at some point it will be a bit more familiar). but like I was saying, if you use plenty of Windows programs, then switching to Linux might not be a realistic option for you. still, assuming your planning on keeping your current hardware for many years to come (say at least 5-10 years), Linux will almost surely be on it at some point probably not long after Oct 2025 given Microsoft dumps support of Win10 then. unless of course you just dump this hardware and move onto newer hardware then. still, keeping the old hardware for Linux is still a nice way to have a decent backup computer as long as it's got at least 4GB of RAM, Linux is good enough. you can have less but realistically 4GB of RAM I see as a realistic minimum nowadays and good news is there is plenty of older hardware that's still worth using that has 4GB of RAM.

 

but if you want to play around with Linux currently on your windows system you can always use a virtual machine. it's how I run Windows on my Linux Mint v20.3-Xfce system occasionally through QEMU/KVM virtual machine (although most will probably use VirtualBox as that appears to be popular VM software). but I generally don't need a VM since the limited amount of windows programs I use work on Linux through Wine etc.

Edited July 8, 2022 by ThaCrip

[+Matthew S. Subscriber²]

The reason linux wouldn't boot is you probably have secure boot enabled, that doesn't play well unless your mortherboard includes the open secureboot cert.

 

Also note Secureboot isn't UEFI, but does require UEFI.

[Technique]

Right, well as I can't be bothered to actually take photos and play around getting them on to the PC because I really shouldn't have to as it should've been accepted the moment I said I was inserting a USB3 drive in to a USB3 port, this will have to suffice....

 

Motherboard: https://www.asus.com/SupportOnly/M4A88TDV_EVOUSB3/HelpDesk_Knowledge/

 

You'll have to do the legwork to get to the manual yourself. Yeah I could've linked it but I shouldn't even be making this post to clarify this so sue me.

 

USB used in most recent post....

 

I even show you the capacity being used too, just to be extra clear

 

And where I'm inserting it on the motherboard....

 

 

 

Yep, blue and blue and right where the manual says USB3 ports are.

 

 

Now in the interest of clarity - let me say, I don't mind at all that it was suggested maybe I was inserting a USB 3 drive in to a USB 2 port, or perhaps the drive wasn't a USB3 drive & maybe it was a USB2 drive going in to a USB3 port.

 

Those are perfectly valid suggestions & I can't fault anyone for it.

 

But the moment I said that wasn't the case, that should've been the end of it. Not keeping on suggesting it.

 

[Technique]

On 08/07/2022 at 23:15, ThaCrip said:

 

Yeah, I am not a fan of dual-boot personally. I would either just install Windows (with usual NTFS file system) or just install Linux (with it's usual EXT4 file system). it's safer this way.

I did actually manage to get as far as a dual boot screen, but Linux wouldn't 'work' / boot.

 

Also, what I didn't like about the dual boot, and this is going to sound very (and shoot me for being stereotypical here) 'woman-buying-car' (I want that car because I like the colour) .... was I didn't like the crappy dual boot screen.

 

I've seen dual booting screens looking 'nice' but it just looked crappy. And either way, it just wouldn't load Linux.

 

I had trouble installing Linux in the first place. I forget what I did now. I think the first option on the bootable USB drive didn't work. Just sent the screen black. I had to do what I think was the second option which allowed me to install but then not boot to it.

 

And here's the twister ....

 

It's not that this PC can't run it. I managed to get it on a 60GB SSD drive a couple years ago. I remember it being a struggle then too but I managed to get it working in the end.

It was just a bit slow running via a drive enclosure & USB though, and I didn't have the room to connect internally, so I scrapped it (erased disk)

On 08/07/2022 at 23:15, ThaCrip said:

 

but honestly, depending on what you need on your computer, something like Linux Mint might eventually end up on that computer anyways given Windows 10 support ends Oct 2025

Windows 7 support ended whenever it ended but I carried on using it

 

I'm rebellious like that

On 08/07/2022 at 23:15, ThaCrip said:

 

and since Win11 ain't a real option on that computer (as is the case with most computers right now), Linux will probably eventually end up on your machine at some point ;

Possibly not.

I wanted Linux on to just try it out. I was talked out of it though as it's technical and I'm not and probably wouldn't be willing to put the time in for it.

 

Besides, the plan was to build a new PC, so my hardware (new) would support Windows 11.

BUT, other things have come up which has pushed the new PC build back. This one does the job for now.

 

But I may not even end up building a new PC. Shame as I enjoyed building this one, but the price of used and even the price of some brand new already built PCs vs the price of selecting individual components & building myself ... it's probably going to be a better option to go pre-done & maybe switch out like 1 or 2 components.

On 08/07/2022 at 23:15, ThaCrip said:

 

or at least get a bit more familiar with it in a virtual machine

A possibility for sure.

Though I've never been a fan of VMs. I find them incredibly slow.

Whether that's my lack of understanding setting them up or my PC not having enough horsepower to run it at a standard I am happy with, I don't know.

On 08/07/2022 at 23:15, ThaCrip said:

 

assuming your planning on keeping your current hardware for many years to come (say at least 5-10 years),

Nah. It's already 12 years old. Well, actually I think only the motherboard, CPU+fan are. Everything else has been switched out over time. The drives, both hard, SSD & optical as well as the RAM. Oh the PSU & GPU is from 2010 as well.

But as I just said, my plan is to replace it out for something better.

Running Handbrake on this PC is no fun I can tell you

[ThaCrip]

On 09/07/2022 at 07:20, Technique said:

A possibility for sure.

Though I've never been a fan of VMs. I find them incredibly slow.

Yeah, they do lag a bit. but for a bit of usage here and there they are good enough.

 

On 09/07/2022 at 07:20, Technique said:

It's already 12 years old. Well, actually I think only the motherboard, CPU+fan are. [snip]

But as I just said, my plan is to replace it out for something better.

my backup computer I built in March 2006 (it's basically high end 2005, early 2006 tech) and I upgraded it's CPU from single core to dual-core (AMD) in 2010, so it's pretty much mid-to-late 2000's tech, and while it's got some age on it, it's still passable for a internet machine and the like as I got the system maxed at 4GB of RAM (4x 1GB). I suspect this system will remain usable for years to come and it's already 16+ years old measuring from how long I had the motherboard.

 

point being, if you're system was solid back in 2010 chances are it's still respectable today.

 

On 09/07/2022 at 07:20, Technique said:

And either way, it just wouldn't load Linux.

 

I would try Linux Mint as it's designed to be more for the common person coming over from Windows. it should not be difficult to install if your wiping the drive and installing it clean as you can pretty much go with the automated stuff.

 

On 09/07/2022 at 07:20, Technique said:

Windows 7 support ended whenever it ended but I carried on using it

Yeah, it's not like it's suddenly going to stop working. but one starts to roll-the-dice a bit as time passes and more security issues are discovered etc.

 

On 09/07/2022 at 07:20, Technique said:

I wanted Linux on to just try it out. I was talked out of it though as it's technical and I'm not and probably wouldn't be willing to put the time in for it.

 

Besides, the plan was to build a new PC, so my hardware (new) would support Windows 11.

 

The thing is, for general usage it's not that difficult to use(like doing basic stuff), at least Linux Mint is not. the basics like web browsing etc are pretty much the same as Windows and if you can clean install Windows, you can pretty much clean install Mint as it's largely automated as you just pay attention to what the install is asking and chances are you are good.

 

even when it comes up updates... it's all done though the 'Update Manager' (even browser updates are to as they don't automatically update themselves like they do on Windows), which is a simple 'shield' looking icon in the taskbar. but as a bonus it does not install any updates without your say so. it even comes with a program called 'Timeshift' which is sort of insurance in case anything gets out of whack. but I have been using Mint since Jan 2019 and it's been pretty reliable.

 

even for graphics card drivers... they are pretty much in the Linux kernel (for Intel/AMD GPU's etc) with NVIDIA being a exception which is easily done through 'Driver Manager', which allows you to install the NVIDIA proprietary driver for better performance.

 

plus, since your hardware is older you generally ain't got to worry about a Linux kernel being not new enough etc.

 

but I get the whole by the time your current one acts up you will probably have moved onto newer hardware. I get this. but still, it's always nice to have a backup computer just-in-case sort of thing and in this regard Linux will come in handy since even once Windows no longer works, Linux likely will for many years to come. like by the time Linux fails, the hardware itself will probably be truly ancient (i.e. not really usable anymore), like how I would say early 2000's and older computers are as you can see a truly ancient computer from one that still has a bit of life left in it... by general CPU load. because those truly ancient computers tend to be on 100% load fairly often where as something with a bit left in the tank generally can play say YouTube videos etc without it taxing the CPU too heavily etc.

 

but what kind of CPU and RAM does this computer of yours have?

[Technique]

On 09/07/2022 at 14:00, ThaCrip said:

my backup computer I built in March 2006 (it's basically high end 2005, early 2006 tech) and I upgraded it's CPU from single core to dual-core (AMD) in 2010, so it's pretty much mid-to-late 2000's tech, and while it's got some age on it, it's still passable for a internet machine and the like as I got the system maxed at 4GB of RAM (4x 1GB). I suspect this system will remain usable for years to come and it's already 16+ years old measuring from how long I had the motherboard.

 

point being, if you're system was solid back in 2010 chances are it's still respectable today.

Yeah it was decent enough in 2010 and to be honest it does what I want it to today. The only time I think this could be a bit faster is say when I was using Handbrake to compress blu ray rips (5-12 hrs (8-10 average) wasn't enjoyable. Copying from/to hard drives, although I don't know whether that's more the drive than the PC.

 

Other than that, it does what I like to do, which is why I'm not too bothered about delaying upgrading.

 

I haven't changed out the thermal compound since day 1 & I notice the fins on the heatsink have dust that compressed air wont dislodge. I don't know how much removing & re-doing will make a difference. I've bought some thermal compound in case I start feeling a little brave.

On 09/07/2022 at 14:00, ThaCrip said:

 

 

I would try Linux Mint

I tried the latest version of Linux Mint Cinnamon within the past fortnight if that helps clarify things?

On 09/07/2022 at 14:00, ThaCrip said:

 

as it's designed to be more for the common person coming over from Windows. it should not be difficult to install if your wiping the drive and installing it clean as you can pretty much go with the automated stuff.

That's what I did.

On 09/07/2022 at 14:00, ThaCrip said:

 

Yeah, it's not like it's suddenly going to stop working. but one starts to roll-the-dice a bit as time passes and more security issues are discovered etc.

One of the reasons I'm reluctantly making the switch. I do quite a lot of online banking. I manage various family members accounts too so it's only fair to them as well that I use a supported OS.

On 09/07/2022 at 14:00, ThaCrip said:

 

 

but what kind of CPU and RAM does this computer of yours have?

 

Looking at the cores there, this thing has 6 apparently. I don't actually know what that means.

 

What I do know is that when all 6 are activated, over the years it has resulted in the occasional BSOD.

 

It's been much more stable with only 5 activated in BIOS.

[ThaCrip]

On 09/07/2022 at 12:39, Technique said:

Other than that, it does what I like to do, which is why I'm not too bothered about delaying upgrading.

Yeah, I tend to want to stretch out my current system as long as I can to. had it (the basic motherboard) since May 2012 which makes it THE longest I ever had a primary PC for (10 years and 2 months and counting) as my previous high was 6 years and 2 months (March 2006 until May 2012).

 

On 09/07/2022 at 12:39, Technique said:

I haven't changed out the thermal compound since day 1 & I notice the fins on the heatsink have dust that compressed air wont dislodge. I don't know how much removing & re-doing will make a difference. I've bought some thermal compound in case I start feeling a little brave.

 

Yeah, that's one thing I never bother with as I heard some claim it's a good idea to do it once in a while. but I never do and mine remains basically just like it is when I first use it. like my primary PC for example... I had the motherboard/CPU from May 2012 until a couple of years ago in 2020 I got a hold of a used i5-3550 CPU for only $20, at which point I removed old heatsink/fan, cleaned things (old heatsink/used i5 CPU) off with the isopropyl alcohol, then applied some of my original tube of Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste(roughly a pea/bb size in center of CPU), which I had since March 2006, and it's been fine since.

 

but yeah, in terms of dust on the heatsink fins... I tend to think that's normal given years of use as blowing it out thoroughly with a air compressor there is probably going to be at least a little on it still. even my old PC (which it's CPU has been in place with that same Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste since sometime in the year 2010 as that's when I upgraded from single core to dual-core CPU) looking at the heatsink you can see a little dust on the aluminum fins, but it's largely clean. so I don't worry at all.

 

On 09/07/2022 at 12:39, Technique said:

One of the reasons I'm reluctantly making the switch. I do quite a lot of online banking. I manage various family members accounts too so it's only fair to them as well that I use a supported OS.

 

All the more reason Linux would be better as it's pretty safe to say that overall it's more secure online if for no other reason than shady people don't target Linux desktop's and by default it won't run any windows 'exe' files etc. so basically in terms of general online browsing with a typical web browser (Chrome/Firefox etc)... if anything, Linux will actually be a upgrade in security over Windows. granted if a person is careful, and keeps their system updated, the risk should be low enough either way on Windows or Linux, but between the two Linux is likely offers a increased level of security over Windows as a general guideline. hell, even for the 'computer illiterate' types of people, Linux would be a security upgrade in the sense it would protect them from themselves to some degree since it can't use '.exe' files by default so even if a person downloads a random .exe file from a shady site, it would be totally harmless to Linux when Linux is in it's default state. I get there is other threats like Phishing etc, which is still a threat, but point being, Linux offers a increase in security to some degree over Windows.

 

Linux (Mint etc) still uses standard browsers that Windows does... Firefox/Chrome etc. Linux Mint comes with Firefox by default (I have been using Firefox as my primary browser a long time now) but you can easily install Chrome if you want to. but I typically use the Chrome alternative on Mint, Chromium (although I did have the official Chrome installed at some point in the past).

 

even my password managers database file interchanges between Windows and Linux without issue. 'pwsafe.org' (Designed by renowned security technologist Bruce Schneier) is what I have been using since about 2005-2007 on Windows and then since Jan 2019 when I switched over to Linux on my primary PC. the Linux version I get from https://sourceforge.net/projects/passwordsafe/files/Linux/ ; which is still official as 'Rony Shapiro' is the guy who maintains it and I think he supposedly knows that Bruce Schneier personally. the android version, which I don't personally use(since I don't bother with smart phones doing anything important online), is maintained by Jeff Harris.

 

 

On 09/07/2022 at 12:39, Technique said:

Looking at the cores there, this thing has 6 apparently. I don't actually know what that means.

 

What I do know is that when all 6 are activated, over the years it has resulted in the occasional BSOD.

 

It's been much more stable with only 5 activated in BIOS.

 

I see. because it shows 5 cores there which seemed kind of odd, but since you mentioned 6 that sounds right.

 

but if you do a fair amount of video encoding, more cores will definitely help here as that will generally be more benefit than cores that are faster but less of them. like my CPU (i5-3550) is likely faster in terms of per core performance, but if you engage all six of your cores to my four on video encoding for example, I am confident yours will be faster since it's likely the two extra cores you have would more than make up the difference for my CPU being generally faster for most general usage.

 

I would see if your running the newest BIOS. but I suspect you might have upgraded it at some point given you said you had it since 2010 and the BIOS data is 2012. I had my board since 2012 and the newest BIOS for mine was released in 2014, which is what I am running.

 

but you got 16GB of RAM and so do I (I went from 8GB to 16GB a couple of years ago now as before that I had 8GB from May 2012 until sometime in 2020). but for many 8GB is 'good enough' as that's probably the sweet spot for many users. although 16GB gives a bit of a safety margin nowadays, so it can't hurt. but 16GB of RAM is the max my motherboard supports. but I figure by the time 16GB becomes a problem the entire system will be more than outdated by then. hell, I figure by the time 16GB of RAM is a issue, the hardware will probably have failed because even 8GB of RAM will still be good enough for years to come I suspect and 16GB I don't see becoming even a small problem for at least another 5-10+ years, at least in terms of many common uses etc.

 

p.s. I am actually under-volting my CPU currently which noticeably lowers CPU temp. being you got a ASUS board like myself it's possible there is options to lower voltage which is totally safe to do as the worst that can happen here is if the CPU does not have enough power going to it, the system will freeze/hard lock. but you can just reset and adjust stuff again etc. so you don't have to worry about damaging anything. I basically shaved about 12-13c off of my peak temps doing this, which is a solid decline in temp with no penalty to performance. but this would require you to experiment and I get you might not want to spend the time tweaking things. because if you go too low on the CPU voltage the computer will have trouble posting/booting at which point you may have to clear the BIOS settings and start from scratch if that happens. but on mine I got warning signs so it did not get to that point. on mine I can't go anymore than -0.130v to have basically a stable system. although recently after quite a bit of time using it at -0.130v the system froze (like all of the stuff displayed on screen froze solid when was doing a bit of video encoding, although it's usually okay but I noticed it a bit lately), which is why hours ago I raise the voltage and now the CPU is at -0.120v (so I increased voltage to CPU by 0.010v) which I am hoping cures those once in a while freeze issue if I am say doing video encoding etc.

 

On 09/07/2022 at 12:39, Technique said:

I tried the latest version of Linux Mint Cinnamon within the past fortnight if that helps clarify things?

 

I see.

 

if you got some spare time and don't have too much data on your boot drive, you could use Clonezilla and image your primary boot drive to a image file on another backup hard drive you got. then try clean installing Mint v21.0 when it's released soon just to see if it installs easily enough or not. but it should. I just keep a eye on where it wants to install the grub boot loader as I tend to make sure it goes to the main boot drive during installation.

 

then if it works, at least you know it works on your system and then you can restore your current Windows image and things will be back to EXACTLY like it was at the time you imaged it (i.e. it will be like you never installed Mint). but depending on how familiar a person is with computers, Clonezilla 'may' be a little complex if someone does not understand source/destination etc. because if someone is not careful it's possible they could accidentally wipe a hard drive. but if you are careful that probably won't happen as it has confirmation prompts before doing anything important to give you a 2nd chance in case you accidentally did something you did not mean to do.

 

but if you only got one internal hard drive or SSD, then Mint should be that much easier since it's pretty much the only place it will likely install the grub boot loader.

 

but I see you got a Geforce 460 GPU... from taking a quick look online it appears the NVIDIA proprietary driver still works with that included with Mint v20.x series, which is a good thing since it gives you more of a proper driver on Linux as without it, the default driver it uses during installation, while it will give you the basics, ain't nearly as good performance wise if your really using the GPU like say on gaming etc. but it's easy enough to install by going to 'Driver Manager' as the rest should be pretty straight forward even though they got different drivers one can choose as currently on mine I see... v390 series, v470 series, v510 series, v515 series. I am currently on v470 but I might try the v515 soon. but speaking of the drivers... it basically gives you updates in the 'Driver Manager' from time-to-time for security updates etc. so you don't have to worry about manually installing a driver occasionally like you do on Windows.

 

p.s. even if Linux Mint does not like your system for whatever reason, you still got alternatives you can try. hell, even among Mint while the main version is Ubuntu based (Cinnamon/MATE/Xfce), they do offer a Debian based Mint which is under the LMDE title (currently "LMDE 5") and while this is officially supported by the Mint team it's more of a backup in case they have to dump the Ubuntu base for whatever reason in the future. but generally speaking... I suggest most people stay with the main version. their Cinnamon is the most popular/used though to my knowledge. but I personally prefer Xfce as it's a bit lighter on resources and makes a real difference for me in regards to playing back hardware accelerated video etc, but I won't get into this for now. but anyways, regardless of whether you choose Cinnamon/MATE or Xfce, their basic function is similar as the basic interface is easy enough to use since you can't really get any simpler as it's Windows like with the standard basic menu everyone's familiar with for ages now.