Ohio Train disaster

[mudslag]

Figured we need a proper thread on this matter..just came across this, supposedly video shows train on fire 20 miles before reaching Palestine 

 

 

Charges dropped

https://fox8.com/news/charges-dismissed-for-newsnation-reporter-in-east-palestine/

[+primortal Subscriber²]

 

[spikey_richie]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2359528-ohio-train-derailment-what-we-know-about-the-toxic-chemical-spill

[dead.cell]

On 15/02/2023 at 14:52, mudslag said:

Figured we need a proper thread on this matter..just came across this, supposedly video shows train on fire 20 miles before reaching Palestine 

Charges dropped

https://fox8.com/news/charges-dismissed-for-newsnation-reporter-in-east-palestine/

Kinda it seems... ridiculous nonetheless. Wait, I'm confused, was it all charges dropped?

"Lambert was charged with resisting arrest, a second-degree misdemeanor, and criminal trespass, a fourth-degree misdemeanor."

[dead.cell]

 

Welp...

[mudslag]

Oh great, another potential issue

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/train-derails-outside-detroit-michigan-one-car-hazardous-materials

 

[dead.cell]

On 16/02/2023 at 12:11, mudslag said:

Oh great, another potential issue

https://www.foxnews.com/us/train-derails-outside-detroit-michigan-one-car-hazardous-materials

Honestly, I don't see this getting better. We've already had two in Louisiana, one back in November, the other on Jan 28th, and the other in Houston which leaked 100 gallons of diesel I think which wasn't as bad comparatively.

Nov 2nd - https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/train-derailment-acid-lead-prompt-evacuations-louisiana-92565772

Jan 28th - https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/north-louisiana-families-evacuated-after-train-derails-96743047

This is making its rounds on Reddit as well for Ohio...

 

[FloatingFatMan]

On 16/02/2023 at 17:34, dead.cell said:

 

Welp...

Uh, why are the train company doing that?  It's the EPA's job, and one they're actively doing...  I call BS.

[dead.cell]

On 16/02/2023 at 12:24, FloatingFatMan said:

Uh, why are the train company doing that?  It's the EPA's job, and one they're actively doing...  I call BS.

Edit - seems might just be liability from the testing itself, like if the data is off to not be liable for "lying" I guess.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 16/02/2023 at 18:25, dead.cell said:

They don't seem to feel that way I guess...

EPA could hold Norfolk Southern liable for East Palestine train derailment

https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/epa-could-hold-norfolk-southern-liable-for-east-palestine-train-derailment/

I'm pretty sure the train company are the ONLY ones responsible here.... Well, assuming they own both the train and the tracks...  If not, then it's 2 companies...

[mudslag]

On 16/02/2023 at 12:29, FloatingFatMan said:

I'm pretty sure the train company are the ONLY ones responsible here.... Well, assuming they own both the train and the tracks...  If not, then it's 2 companies...

 

[FloatingFatMan]

On 16/02/2023 at 19:01, mudslag said:

 

Trump rolled back the rule preventing the train companies from doing that, but he didn't MAKE the train companies do that... So he shares responsibility absolutely, but the train companies DID it, despite knowing its unsafe...

[+Edouard Subscriber²]

On 17/02/2023 at 06:52, FloatingFatMan said:

Trump rolled back the rule preventing the train companies from doing that, but he didn't MAKE the train companies do that... So he shares responsibility absolutely, but the train companies DID it, despite knowing its unsafe...

 

 

[+Warwagon MVC]

On 16/02/2023 at 12:23, dead.cell said:

Honestly, I don't see this getting better. We've already had two in Louisiana, one back in November, the other on Jan 28th, and the other in Houston which leaked 100 gallons of diesel I think which wasn't as bad comparatively.

Nov 2nd - https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/train-derailment-acid-lead-prompt-evacuations-louisiana-92565772

Jan 28th - https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/north-louisiana-families-evacuated-after-train-derails-96743047

This is making its rounds on Reddit as well for Ohio...

 

those are some ganky looking train tracks

[DocM]

On 16/02/2023 at 14:01, mudslag said:

 

 

That was only the most recent deregulation of railroads.

This all started with the Staggers Rail Act of 1980, introduced by Sen. Howard Cannon (D-NY), named for Rep. Harley Staggers (D-WV), and signed by Pres. Jimmy Carter. The late 1970s were big on deregulation which sometimes came back to bite us in the ass.

More on point WRT derailments is the now common practice of Precision Scheduled Railroading, a just in time delivery system. Everything is precisely choreographed and time trimmed, including the car inspections by rail Carmen - down from 3 minutes in the past to 90 seconds today. If the car is running late, you know what happens. Lubrication ends up slipshod, a bad bearing may not be noticed, etc. Sooner or later a rail car goes off the rails.

 

[shockz]

On 18/02/2023 at 20:26, DocM said:

This all started with the Staggers Rail Act of 1980, introduced by Sen. Howard Cannon (D-NY), named for Rep. Harley Staggers (D-WV), and signed by Pres. Jimmy Carter. The late 1970s were big on deregulation which sometimes came back to bite us in the ass.

Oh please.

[DocM]

On 18/02/2023 at 20:30, shockz said:

Oh please.

What part is factually incorrect? Has deregulation not been a clusterfrack in some areas? Is PSR a good idea given the shortened inspection times?

[adrynalyne]

On 18/02/2023 at 20:16, DocM said:

What part is factually incorrect? Has deregulation not been a clusterfrack in some areas? Is PSR a good idea given the shortened inspection times?

We are just in awe of your whataboutism in an effort to protect your orange hero.

[timster]

this is peak Leopards Ate My Face material.

But go on Ohio, keep voting Republican.

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 19/02/2023 at 02:26, DocM said:

 

That was only the most recent deregulation of railroads.

This all started with the Staggers Rail Act of 1980, introduced by Sen. Howard Cannon (D-NY), named for Rep. Harley Staggers (D-WV), and signed by Pres. Jimmy Carter. The late 1970s were big on deregulation which sometimes came back to bite us in the ass.

More on point WRT derailments is the now common practice of Precision Scheduled Railroading, a just in time delivery system. Everything is precisely choreographed and time trimmed, including the car inspections by rail Carmen - down from 3 minutes in the past to 90 seconds today. If the car is running late, you know what happens. Lubrication ends up slipshod, a bad bearing may not be noticed, etc. Sooner or later a rail car goes off the rails.

 

You never fail to place blame on democrats but always ignore when Republicans successfully rolled back the same sort of safety measures as recently as the previous presidential term. Instead you must always find something that happened 43 years ago, but only if it is a DEM.

And you call yourself an "independent" 😂 You can't even bring yourself to acknowledge what Trump rolled back as a major contributing factor.

Anyone who thinks deregulation works because companies will "just be responsible on their own" are kidding themselves, there's enough in history that shows this doesn't happen. I remember how Michigan's water could be set alight from the tap! The only party that deregulates at the behest of major corporations are the Republicans, public safety be damned!

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

To be fair, the head of the NTSB said this week that even if Trump hadn't killed the new regulations, it wouldn't have mattered in this case as the train and cargo did not meet the qualifications for the new braking regs. 

 

Jennifer Homendy , NTSB head tweeted:

"The ECP braking rule would've applied ONLY to HIGH HAZARD FLAMMABLE TRAINS. The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars. This means even if the rule had gone into effect, this train wouldn't have had ECP brakes. Anything else is harmful — and adding pain to a community that’s been through enough."

 

 

 

[dead.cell]

On 19/02/2023 at 07:48, Biscuits Brown said:

To be fair, the head of the NTSB said this week that even if Trump hadn't killed the new regulations, it wouldn't have mattered in this case as the train and cargo did not meet the qualifications for the new braking regs. 

Jennifer Homendy , NTSB head tweeted:

"The ECP braking rule would've applied ONLY to HIGH HAZARD FLAMMABLE TRAINS. The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars. This means even if the rule had gone into effect, this train wouldn't have had ECP brakes. Anything else is harmful — and adding pain to a community that’s been through enough."

Well, that's interesting to know, thanks for sharing. Of course, you can expect conversation to die when people can't thumb their nose at each other over politics lol.

Meanwhile, looks like symptoms have moved east towards Pennsylvania as well, and even if Ohio eventually gets support, I only wonder what happens to the rest of the people out there.

 

[hagjohn]

On 18/02/2023 at 22:16, DocM said:

What part is factually incorrect? Has deregulation not been a clusterfrack in some areas? Is PSR a good idea given the shortened inspection times?

Did you read up on the bill?  The bill removed the collective rate making, so the companies could set their own pricing. Didn't have anything to do with safety.

 

Quote

The 4R reforms included allowance of a greater range for railroad pricing without close regulatory restraint, greater independence from collective rate making procedures in rail pricing and service offers, contract rates, and, to a lesser extent, greater freedom for entry into and exit from rail markets.

 

Now, if you are trying to say that deregulation leads to unsafe "products", I'm sure we would love to have that discussion since republicans like you love to deregulate everything.

[hagjohn]

On 19/02/2023 at 08:48, Biscuits Brown said:

To be fair, the head of the NTSB said this week that even if Trump hadn't killed the new regulations, it wouldn't have mattered in this case as the train and cargo did not meet the qualifications for the new braking regs. 

 

Jennifer Homendy , NTSB head tweeted:

"The ECP braking rule would've applied ONLY to HIGH HAZARD FLAMMABLE TRAINS. The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars. This means even if the rule had gone into effect, this train wouldn't have had ECP brakes. Anything else is harmful — and adding pain to a community that’s been through enough."

 

 

 

Now sure how this ###### doesn't qualify as high hazard flammable is very strange to me. Anything hazardous to the earth/animals/humans or flammable should have the highest standards.

[dead.cell]

On 19/02/2023 at 10:10, hagjohn said:

Now sure how this ###### doesn't qualify as high hazard flammable is very strange to me. Anything hazardous to the earth/animals/humans or flammable should have the highest standards.

Well, this isn't really just an Ohio problem as it is a nationwide problem. One thing I'm reminded of is how lax security was at the airport pre-9/11. When you consider just how drastic of an impact train derailments can have with all the chemicals they carry, it really should be something treated with much higher priority.

This is why I linked the two from Louisiana, the one from my own city of Houston, and the other one mudslag posted as well. This problem isn't going away anytime soon, and it's questionable to be worried about balloons from China when it doesn't take more than stopping a vehicle on the tracks to cause a disaster environmental problem. 🙄