.... Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 His innordinant amount of walks skews the average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pctuk Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 I love Bonds - good ol' Neobond is the creator of this site after all. Oh, not that kind of Bonds.... (better get my coat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOGMaster Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 I love Bonds - good ol' Neobond is the creator of this site after all. Oh, not that kind of Bonds.... (better get my coat) thanks for your pointless remark. Regardless - you can't argue stats... until 'roids have been proven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Concentrate, pctuk-san! Barry Bonds! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 His innordinant amount of walks skews the average. Skews the average of what? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOGMaster Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 not sure what he was talking about either... BOOG - skews what now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xplatinum Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Since I type pretty fast i'll try to give this a go... taken from Maxim of this month. FOUL BALL!With steroid scandals, corrupt owners, and spoiled brat atheletes demanding more and more millions, will America's national pastime ever be able to brush itself off? Baseball. It's more quintessentially American than Mom, apple pie, or selling cutting-edge weapons to corrupt dictators (ooops!). No other sport has the same rich history, the same American never-say-die spirit, or the same unexplainable mystique that has inpisered hundreds of books and movies. But our national pastime is in serious trouble,. In a world where nightly news reports detail rampant corporate greed, stock market cheating, and sweetheart Halliburton deals reeking of institutionalized corruption, baseball's been getting its own black eye. Could it be that the greatest game on Earth is beginning to symbolize all that is wrong with the greatest nation on Earth? These days it sounds lke every player is hopped up on steroids, the commissioner's office looks sleazier tha Micheal Jackson driving an ice cream truch, and don't even get us started on the Damn Yankees and their new quarter-billion-dollar man. Despite the most exciting postseason ever, fans are still staying away in droves. The 2004 season opens with the sport itself at the plate with two outs in the bottom of the ninteh, down by a run, with no rally monkey in sight. But we at Maxim aren't willing to give up on the grand game that easily. So we fielded a team of All-Stars, superagents, league officials, and the world's leading baseball historains to try to fix the game before it goes down looking. Here's the pitch... STRIKE 1: CHEATING If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. But are players trying too hard? Last summer the sports pages were dominated by Sammy Sosa and his 32-ounce wine bottle. But no one---- the league, players, or fans ---- wins if half of Smilin' Sammy's bats turn up juiced. So it's not surprising that after confiscating and X-raying 76 of Sosa's bats, the league declared every single one of them clean. Besides, on-the-field cheating is a time-honored baseball tradition. Cooperstown celebrates more spitballers than a porn convention. Whitey Ford, Gaylord Perry , and Don drysdale are all admitted cheaters. In 1999, Tiers pitcher Brian Moehler walked to the mound with everything but a Black & Decker sander taped to his thumb. His punishment? Time served, having had to play in Detroit Steroids, on the other track-marked hand, are no joke. They're a danger to the integrity of the game and the health of its players. And while the major League Baseball Players Association may not be dealing, they are aiding and abetting. For the same reasons Steve Howe can snort his way through an entire career and Dock Ellis can pitch a no-hitter on acid, steroids have become today's version of chewing tobacco. "The players union will never agree to randon drug testing," MLBPA associate general counsel Gene Orza has said. "Never." Which explains why Mark McGwire didn't hide his bottle of androstenedione while muscling a then-record 70 home runs in 1998. Despite being banned by the NFL, NBA, NCAA, and United States Olympic Committee, andro is perfectly legal in baseball. And there still isn't a test for human growth hormones, despite the fact that Barry Bonds' head reportedly grew two full hat sizes in 2001 alone. Both Bons and Gary Sheffield have been named by an unidentified source as stereoid recipients, yet both remain untouchable, protected by their union. "I was surprised," Sheffield said as the controversy broke." But it's nothing to eve worry about." Sady, he's right. Bongs and Sheffield even volunteered to be tested, knowing that the Players Association would never allow it. "The drug testing program has to be bargained for under the collective bargaining agreement," explains Bob DuPuy, the president and chief operating officer of Major League Baseball. "The commissioner put a zero tolerance policy on the table during the last negotiations --- similar to that in the minor leagues --- but the union restricts what we can do." And that means even after fivce to seven percent of players tested came up positive for steroids last season, not a single name will be revealed or any disciplinary action taken. "[baseball's new testing policy] is an insult to the fight against doping in sport, an insult to the intelligence of the American public and an insult to the game itself," Dick Pound president of the World Anti-Doping Agency has said. "It's a complete and utter joke." Here's how it works: Test positive for steroids, you get counseling and treatment. Test positive again, they give you a 15-day suspension or a fine of up to $10,000, and up it goes, until you test positive a fifth time, when baseball gets serious by handing out a one-year suspension or a fine of up to $100,000. Even the U.S. Senate is outrages. Sen. John McCain has threatened legislative action, and Sen. Joe Biden came out and said, "The union is wrong here." Yet athletes continue to make the rules. "Doctors should quit worrying about what ballplayers are taking," Bonds has said. "What players take doesn't matter." But doctors are worried: Injuries are on the rise because players' muscles have grown too big for their ligaments and tendons to handle. From 1997 to 2001, the average stay on the disabled list inscreased 20 percent, costing owners $317 million in 2001 alone. That's on top of whatever long-term effects performance-enhancing drugs have on the history of the game. Records, particularly power records, are falling faster than a Bush twins at an open bar. What can baseball do? Well, it doesn't have to reinvent the whell. The owners need to do what every other profesionnal sport has done: play hardball. Demand a testing policy that's half as tough as the NFL's, NBA's, or USOC's, and dare players to strike for their right to infect steroids. Unfortunately, the problem has already engulfed so many of the game's biggest stars that cracking the whip could be devastating. It's tough for the union to have balls on this issue if half its members' sacks have shrunk so much already. STRIKE 2: GREED ... STRIKE 3: CORRUPTION ... MINI INTERVIEW WITH BARRY ZITTO Let's talk about Sammy Sosa. Do you think that corked bat was an accident? I know if I had a glove with a piece of sand-paper glued onto it, I wouldn't accidentally use that one during a game. I can't prove Sammy's picking corked bats for days when he's not feeling right, but a lot of things are leading to more home runs. The game is geared toward fans, and fans love hitting The league says five to seven percent of players tested positive for steroids. Is that what you're talking about? I have alot of friends in the game woho are big guys, but I've never seen steroids. Obviously, when you see guys blowing up from one year to the next --- guys who normally hit 10 home runs all of a sudden hit 40 ---- there have to be other factors [...] Phew... !! Typed all of that without looking to the screen once... might be some typos there and there :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOGMaster Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Not even gonna read it. I stand corrected. If that was the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xplatinum Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Not even gonna read it.I stand corrected. If that was the point. Wow... very mature of you. I was merely quoting this mag to express my thoughts on the subject. If you're not going to read it, fine. But no need to say it... move on and stop being so defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOGMaster Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 oh X... defensive on Bonds? if you want me to back down I will - there are many more topics to argue upon... Bonds is a prick...but hits well - all I am saying is "innocent until proven guilty" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Skews the average of what? :huh: His batting average! He walks a record pace every year, for the last three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xplatinum Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 BOOGMASTERDAN : Defensive about you thinking I was referring to your posts... when I actually didn't read either one of them :| ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 His batting average! He walks a record pace every year, for the last three years. ...and that skews his batting average how :blink: ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 ...and that skews his batting average how :blink: ? I wouldn't think i'd have to explain it, but ok.... Say he walks 200 times. That completely lowers his AB by.......200. Less At bats...less outs, higher BA....since....His low, sweeping swing gave Bonds a lot of pop flies in his Pittsburgh years. Add the juice, and those are now longer pop flies....thus, home runs. He's always been a pop fly guy....not a consistent line drive guy like Jeter or Nomar, for example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniPi Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I wonder how good he'd be at golf. Hmm...steroid testing in the PGA. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroChaos Veteran Posted May 5, 2004 Veteran Share Posted May 5, 2004 HRs. There isn't any season where his HR output was grossly larger than his BA. sorry, i meant from 86-92, there's an extra number in there, what is it? ABs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 I wouldn't think i'd have to explain it, but ok....Say he walks 200 times. That completely lowers his AB by.......200. Less At bats...less outs, higher BA....since....His low, sweeping swing gave Bonds a lot of pop flies in his Pittsburgh years. Add the juice, and those are now longer pop flies....thus, home runs. He's always been a pop fly guy....not a consistent line drive guy like Jeter or Nomar, for example... Walks don't skew averages at all. It's part of the game, so how can it be skewed? You could walk a record number of times and still be capable of batting below .200. If anything, it's harder to hit a high average with a lot of walks. Each out drops your average much more than normal. Bond's doesn't have a low sweeping swing. Hasn't in years. It's what you call improving as a hitter. Bonds is a straight out line drive hitter...for the past 10 years possibly. Might actually want to watch him play for once instead of pulling all this out of thin air. Bottom line....Bonds is no more of a prick than any of the haters in here. Bonds hates the media...if that makes him a prick, than fine. You guys hate him...that makes you a prick by your own standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 I wouldn't think i'd have to explain it, but ok....Say he walks 200 times. That completely lowers his AB by.......200. Less At bats...less outs, higher BA....since....His low, sweeping swing gave Bonds a lot of pop flies in his Pittsburgh years. Add the juice, and those are now longer pop flies....thus, home runs. He's always been a pop fly guy....not a consistent line drive guy like Jeter or Nomar, for example... Less at bats = less outs? I still have no idea what you're talking about. Just because he gets walked a lot has nothing to do with the fact that, when he does get pitched to he hits it well over 1/3 at bats. If what you're saying is that he's at an advantage because he only has to hit 1 out of maybe 2 or 3 ABs in a game instead of 4 or 5, you could say that about any good hitter on record. They did the same thing to Williams, who was never a power hitter like Bonds. And you're right, he does have a high swinging style, which explains why his batting average is actually probably low for his skill ... he strikes out swinging only on RARE occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Bond's doesn't have a low sweeping swing. Hasn't in years. Do you even watch the game? His swing is totally a low sweeping swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 If what you're saying is that he's at an advantage because he only has to hit 1 out of maybe 2 or 3 ABs in a game instead of 4 or 5, you could say that about any good hitter on record. They did the same thing to Williams, who was never a power hitter like Bonds.And you're right, he does have a high swinging style, which explains why his batting average is actually probably low for his skill ... he strikes out swinging only on RARE occasions. Yes...that's what I am ambiguously trying to say. ;) Bonds just has the luxury of getting more intentional passes than any player in history. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threetonesun Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 (edited) Yes...that's what I am ambiguously trying to say. ;) Bonds just has the luxury of getting more intentional passes than any player in history.Sorry for the confusion. Yeah, of course that still assumes he can get a hit on demand, in any at bat he does get. Most batters are at the whim of good pitches, Bonds still manages to hit on the rare chance he is pitched to. Funny, there was an article about this very issue in the Globe today: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/arti...nds_may_be_400/ Of course they had to bring up Williams :laugh: Edited May 8, 2004 by threetonesun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Yeah, of course that still assumes he can get a hit on demand, in any at bat he does get. Most batters are at the whim of good pitches, Bonds still manages to hit on the rare chance he is pitched to.Funny, there was an article about this very issue in the Globe today: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/arti...nds_may_be_400/ Of course they had to bring up Williams :laugh: :laugh: Great article. That's why Bob Ryan is a journalist. He can explain things better. ;) Walks, walks, walks. They keep the ABs down, and that is why Bonds has a shot this season. Call it the Ted Williams formula if you like, but just acknowledge that any man who walks as much as Bonds isn't going to need all that many hits in order to bat .400.Forget 200 hits, or 180 or even 150. Right now, Barry Bonds is walking at a projected pace of 259 bases on balls. It's impossible to pinpoint, since we don't know how many games he'll play, and in the last three full seasons he's gone from 153 to 143 to 130. Say he only walks 200 times. ("Only." That's pretty funny, huh?) Then he'd need just 121 hits in 302 at-bats in order to hit .400 (.40066, actually). Reduce the walks by 20 and he'd still only need 129 hits to bat .400 (.40062). Just for laughs, consider that when Sisler hit .407 for the 1920 St. Louis Browns (that's the Baltimore Orioles for you young'uns) he did so while smashing out a still-record 257 hits (in 631 at-bats). Sisler walked just 46 times that season. But that's right in keeping with the typical .400 hitter. The most Cobb walked during one of his three .400 seasons was 55 in 1922. Among the old-old guys, the most bases on balls during a .400 season was Hornsby's league-leading 89 in 1924, when he hit a rousing .424. It was a swing-the-bat era, all right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJH35 Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 maybe baseball should get there **** together and test em so we can drop the stupid roids arguments, if a reporter says a player has small junk after seein him in the locker room they'll say he's using Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniPi Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 maybe baseball should get there **** together and test em so we can drop the stupid roids arguments, if a reporter says a player has small junk after seein him in the locker room they'll say he's using Just..stop...posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunjack Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Just face it. Bonds has always slapped the **** out of a baseball. Alot of sports analysts think his power is coming not from steroids but from his new elbow protectant. It is about 16 inches which is about 8 inches longer than normally allowed. Thus Barry can get closer to the plate and pull the living hell out of an inside pitch and slap it like a red headed step child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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