Running Mac OS X on x86 PC!

[S.MULLA]

a new emulator called PearPC seems to be able to run OS X on x86 machines:

http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/index.html

Check out the screenshots:

http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html

source:aqua-soft.org [forum]

[cooldude7273]

can anyone translate that documentation into normal english for us non super-nerds? :unsure:

[Trek234]

This project WILL DIE

Bye bye, PearPC.

Mike

Nope. It's not the emulators fault if YOU violate a software license. Again, courts have already decided that.

There is nothing illegal about the emulator its self. Now can you DO something illegal with it? Sure.

I can use Microsoft outlook for "evil" if I wanted to. So is it Microsofts fault if I do that? Nope.

[Trek234]

I am using my brain. If this software allows users to violate Apple's license agreement, they have every right to shut it down.

Why is everyone so f*cking obnoxious?

Mike

My god man go take a legal course after you graduate grade school.

So if software MIGHT allow you to violate a license agreement, X company has every right to shut you down? Well, I guess we can say bye bye to EVERY CD/DVD recording software. Say bye bye to any DVD playing software. Oh! Better say bye to Microsoft Word also! I MIGHT use it in order to reproduce a copyrighted book don't ya know.

These arguments have already been tried in court by Sony and Nintendo. Guess what? The courts ruled against them. This matter has already been decided.

It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. If I steal your car and use it to flee after a robbery, is it your fault because I used your car to do something wrong? Not blood likely.

This coming from the guy who 24 hours ago was not aware of what a patent was. (or if he was for some reason believed they only applied to apple rather than pc hardware)

[Trek234]

It's NOT?

So you're saying that Microsoft packages up a DVD builder? A Movie Editor (Movie Maker isn't even close to the same league)? A Photo Manager? Gee....I don't have them.

MIke

So? Get a job and buy the software.

[Trek234]

Because people don't seem to understand the details of this project and why Apple WILL come down on it AND have the right to do so.

There's more to it than just emulating the PPC.

Mike

How do you know Apple will initiate litigation?

First of all are you aware working macintosh emulators (some which were sold for profit) have existed for YEARS? Back in OS 6-9 days you could emulate OS 1-8.1 near PERFECTLY. Apple never did a damn thing. Why is it different now?

Second - do you know what the word "precedent" means? The courts have ruled before when Sony and Nintendo tried to take action against emulators that emulators are PERFECTLY LEGAL so long as they don't directly use copyrighted code.

So tell me - how exactly will Apple have better standing in court over Sony and Nintendo? You are aware the law must be applied equally to all people/corporations, right?

[the evn show]

My god man go take a legal course after you graduate grade school.

The DMCA is almost that frightening. Apple could rot-13 their install CDs, and add a call to open firmware that rot-13s them again when they're read. That would be enough to count as encryption, and then they can slam the DMCA on you. If they wanted to be extra anal you could find yourself in court for violating an EULA that specifically forbids the installation of Mac OS X on anything except Apple hardware. There are countries where these things actually hold up (Apple's is actually a fairly easy read so you might not even be able to pull the 'it's too complicated' defense if their lawyers are as good as we all think they are).

I bought a DVD copy of hero (imported) a few months ago.

I want to watch it at school on my notebook with some friends between classes, but I don't want to bring it with me. So I decide to rip it.

Using DeCSS to remove the encyption so that I can re-encode the movie in MPEG-4 is not legal (if I were in America) because circumvent encryption/copy protection. Likewise it's illegal for sites hosted in America to traffic in that sort of software.

Stupid? yes.

legal? sadly.

That same law could bring a little hell on neowin based in America for linking to programs like that (remember the mess of sites that caught C&D and other legal notices for linking to DeCSS source code those few years ago?) Of course that just pushes this sort of program out of the USA - but there is always the potential for liability as long as it's on the books. Even if 'the good guys' win it can still be an extremely costly battle which everyone loses - except the lawyers.

Try writing your congressman or if you're not 18, explain the issue to your parents and have them bash out a 2 paragraph letter that voices your concerns. Politicians still understand dead trees - so use that to your advantage if you want to do something about this (IMO) crazy state of affairs.

[Liquid]

Can this thing read .nrg?

[Trek234]

Uh, no, because there's nothing in the Windows license agreement that says that you have to use MS-branded hardware. DID I SAY THAT? NO.

Mike

Get this - license agreements do NOT override civil law. It doesn't matter what a license agreement says if it is conflict with state or federal law. Your license agreement can say you surrender your right to a quick and speedy trial forever after you install it. Doesn't mean it has any basis in reality.

The fact is the courts have already decided the issue making any contrary point in a license agreement null and void.

Your argument is that license agreements somehow carry more weight than the judgement of a court of law. Get this - THEY DON'T!

[Starman]

So? Get a job and buy the software.

I already bought DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut Pro, and Photoshop.

Bet you weren't expecting THAT answer, were ya?

Mike

[Starman]

How do you know Apple will initiate litigation?

First of all are you aware working macintosh emulators (some which were sold for profit) have existed for YEARS? Back in OS 6-9 days you could emulate OS 1-8.1 near PERFECTLY. Apple never did a damn thing. Why is it different now?

Second - do you know what the word "precedent" means? The courts have ruled before when Sony and Nintendo tried to take action against emulators that emulators are PERFECTLY LEGAL so long as they don't directly use copyrighted code.

So tell me - how exactly will Apple have better standing in court over Sony and Nintendo? You are aware the law must be applied equally to all people/corporations, right?

Because you had to go out and get the ROMs yourself.

In fact, if you check out this site:

http://www.emulators.com/softmac.htm

It says:

IMPORTANT: All versions of SoftMac and Fusion PC require that you provide a valid Macintosh ROM BIOS (which all Macintosh computers use to start booting) and a valid Mac OS startup disk. Without these two items, and emulator will not boot or work, just as a real Macintosh computer cannot work without these items. You should download the free SoftMac XP or Fusion PC release to verify that you have the necessary ROM BIOS and Mac OS before purchasing a more advanced SoftMac release.

All users of Mac emulators fall into one of 3 categories. You should determine exactly which of the 3 categories applies to you, and this will determine whether you need to purchase a ROM card and/or ROMs, or whether you can use SoftMac entirely without any additional hardware. The 3 categories are:

You do not currently own a Macintosh computer of any kind. You will have to purchase our ROM card and a set of Macintosh ROMs and use that hardware inside your PC. You will likely also need to purchase Mac OS and other Macintosh software.

You do own a Macintosh computer, but one that is not functioning. You will need to purchase our ROM card and you will have the option to then install your computer's ROMs into the ROM card. In effect, transferring the functionality of your Macintosh computer into your PC. Only specific Macintosh ROMs are supported by the ROM card, so please consult our Macintosh ROM Chart to verify that you have the correct ROMs.

You do own a Macintosh computer that is functioning. You may be able to simply create a ROM image of your Macintosh's BIOS by running a small utility on your Macintosh. Again, please consult the Macintosh ROM Chart to verify that your ROMs are supported as ROM images. SoftMac currently supports over 30 different Macintosh ROM BIOS versions that are used in dozens of different models of Macintosh computers and we are adding support for new BIOS versions every month.

*GASP*

So basically, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Mike

[Starman]

Installing OS X server now. Installing fine, 5h38m left.

Mike

[Jackalo]

Starman, your signature image is just screaming Michael Jackson.

[Trek234]

The DMCA is almost that frightening. Apple could rot-13 their install CDs, and add a call to open firmware that rot-13s them again when they're read. That would be enough to count as encryption, and then they can slam the DMCA on you. If they wanted to be extra anal you could find yourself in court for violating an EULA that specifically forbids the installation of Mac OS X on anything except Apple hardware. There are countries where these things actually hold up (Apple's is actually a fairly easy read so you might not even be able to pull the 'it's too complicated' defense if their lawyers are as good as we all think they are).

I bought a DVD copy of hero (imported) a few months ago.

I want to watch it at school on my notebook with some friends between classes, but I don't want to bring it with me. So I decide to rip it.

Using DeCSS to remove the encyption so that I can re-encode the movie in MPEG-4 is not legal (if I were in America) because circumvent encryption/copy protection. Likewise it's illegal for sites hosted in America to traffic in that sort of software.

Stupid? yes.

legal? sadly.

That same law could bring a little hell on neowin based in America for linking to programs like that (remember the mess of sites that caught C&D and other legal notices for linking to DeCSS source code those few years ago?) Of course that just pushes this sort of program out of the USA - but there is always the potential for liability as long as it's on the books. Even if 'the good guys' win it can still be an extremely costly battle which everyone loses - except the lawyers.

Try writing your congressman or if you're not 18, explain the issue to your parents and have them bash out a 2 paragraph letter that voices your concerns. Politicians still understand dead trees - so use that to your advantage if you want to do something about this (IMO) crazy state of affairs.

<sigh> I am aware of copyright law. The fact of the matter is courts have ruled that under current law emulators themselves are NOT illegal.

If you bring in copyrighted code written by say Apple then yes, that is another matter. The point is, however, it is not the fault of the emu authors if users use the software illegally.

No site has been brought down for linking to emulators either. I visit several mainstream emulation sites that link to every emulator under the sun (and even host most of them on their own domain). They have never had legal trouble so long as they don't go around posting copyrighted code.

Bringing up unrelated matters (DVD encryption for instance) doesn't change the fact that under law emulators themselves are legal. Two different matters with two unique and different court precedents.

[Trek234]

I already bought DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut Pro, and Photoshop.

Bet you weren't expecting THAT answer, were ya?

Mike

No I wasn't... If you already bought the software then why are you complaining that Microsoft doesn't include it free for you?

[zkorpio]

"Almost" worked for me, It was fun though... When opening the desktop, the menu bar and the finder window that opens keeps like refreshing...? it goes on and off and never stops... so basicaly I can't do anything; also when mouse over the dock bar it does the same.

I'm using Windows XP SP1... both "win32 jitc" and the "win32 generic" does the same thing... but "win32 jitc" loads faster.

What changes on the configuration file would be any good....?

[oik]

i'll bet 80% of you people using pearpc are using illegal copies of osx too...

[nuka_t]

would you expect them to buy a retail copy?

[Trek234]

Because you had to go out and get the ROMs yourself.

In fact, if you check out this site:

http://www.emulators.com/softmac.htm

It says:

*GASP*

So basically, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Mike

<sigh> Playstation emulators require you use a Playstation BIOS. Guess what? When sony took them to court the courts said it DOES NOT MATTER. That's why Playstation emulators are in full swing right now and Sony has stopped their legal initiatives against them. You can only lose so many times.

It's also nice that you skirted around the issue. Odd, I didn't need to use a mac ROM to run this emulator. Nice straw man though.

Hey guess what? Those emulators that DO need mac roms have been around for AT LEAST 10 years. Apple has done nothing. (and they actually emulated the mac near perfectly!) I'm still waiting for you to tell me how you know Apple will act with this in mind. 10 years is a pretty long time. What's taking them so long? Uh oh, hope the statue of limitations hasn't set in.... (you know, the principle of law that mandates legal action be taken within a limited period of time)

[Trek234]

dupe sorry

[oik]

would you expect them to buy a retail copy?

since this would probably be the main thing that would stop apple from smushing this under it's legal (or technical) thumb, yes.

apple can make a great deal of money if people bought the os. but if you all just use pirated copies, then apple's not gonna give a ****. they can go the legal route or the tech route and then *poof* pearpc no longer works.

[oik]

Hey guess what? Those emulators that DO need mac roms have been around for AT LEAST 10 years. Apple has done nothing. (and they actually emulated the mac near perfectly!) I'm still waiting for you to tell me how you know Apple will act with this in mind. 10 years is a pretty long time. What's taking them so long? Uh oh, hope the statue of limitations hasn't set in.... (you know, the principle of law that mandates legal action be taken within a limited period of time)

apple will go on this one because it runs osx. notice how all the others run everything BUT osx? this is their flagship os. you do not know as much as you would like us to think you do, run along now.

[Trek234]

since this would probably be the main thing that would stop apple from smushing this under it's legal (or technical) thumb, yes.

apple can make a great deal of money if people bought the os. but if you all just use pirated copies, then apple's not gonna give a ****. they can go the legal route or the tech route and then *poof* pearpc no longer works.

Seems like a moot point of people are "using" pirated copys at the moment. Wow, I got to the desktop before a major crash! Whoopdeedo.

Key thing to remember about emulators: Most of the time they are for novelty more than anything else. Does a single person on this thread who has used the emu done so with intent to actually USE it for something? No, it's just fun to screw around with in your free time. "Oh look I got to the OS X desktop on my PC at 2FPS! Yay!" well back to Windows I go.

[Trek234]

apple will go on this one because it runs osx.? notice how all the others run everything BUT osx?? this is their flagship os.? you do not know as much as you would like us to think you do, run along now.

Umm you don't get it do you? When the older emulators were around OS X didn't even exist. It probably wasn't even conceived of yet.

When those emulators were around OS 6, 7, 8 were top of the line newest mac OS's. (like OS X is today)

Apple did nothing.

When this emulator actually emulates OS X in a useable form OS X will be like OS 8 is today. (in the "Who gives a damn" category)

Emulators usually take a few years to actually be considered usable/stable. Don't expect to be running OS X in that manner on your PC any time soon.

[oik]

Seems like a moot point of people are "using" pirated copys at the moment. Wow, I got to the desktop before a major crash! Whoopdeedo.

Key thing to remember about emulators: Most of the time they are for novelty more than anything else. Does a single person on this thread who has used the emu done so with intent to actually USE it for something? No, it's just fun to screw around with in your free time. "Oh look I got to the OS X desktop on my PC at 2FPS! Yay!" well back to Windows I go.

you do realize that it's a 0.01 release, right? by the time this hits 1.0 final, it should be running quite a bit faster.

[Trek234]

you do realize that it's a 0.01 release, right?? by the time this hits 1.0 final, it should be running quite a bit faster.

Ok, and "by the time it hits" 1.0 final what year will it be?

I dare you to name me one emulator ever that was fully stable, fast, and feature complete in less than 5 years. Especially one that is emulating an entirely different architecture.

By the time this can emulate OS X as well as real mac you'll be able to pick up OS X for a buck and some change in the bargain bin of your local software store.

Edited May 11, 2004 by Trek234