OS X 10.4 ONLY discussions and information

[Redestium]

It's interesting to see how the Mac OS handles such things like file extensions.

[Spacedog]

Another little bit of information on the subject, to be put beside The Evn Show's excellent survey (then I'll return completely back on topic, promise!)

On a file level, the transmission of a file across a network has little to be translated when moved from a Mac to a PC (or vice-versa), as ASCII-8 and ASCII-16 (Double-Byte) are basically the same for both systems. The issues come into play with Binary files. Depending on what has been stored in the binary file it may have an incompatible byte-order for some values. In most people's experiences this is not an issue as the file's design has already accounted for this issue. (The exceptions are Executables, and Binary data files created by some programs... more later)

So, how does this affect you? (Does it at all?)

No, if what you are going to move is Audio files and other data files. Most of all the widely supported format have already dealt with the issues of binary formatting. For example, MP3 files are platform independent because the internal format of the file fixed the byte order for its values to a platform independent ordering.

Now, the area where the "translating" becomes and issue is not an actual formatting problem but is in fact a "methodology" issue. As already stated, Macs and Windows machines keep track of the creator application of a file in completely different ways. For a Mac, all the information needed to determine what application must be called when you open a file is contained in the "header" of the file (resource fork). This bit of information tells the OS which application to call based on registered values with Apple and your specific system.

In contrast, DOS originated Operating systems (Windows) base the selection of the creator application on a clue in the filename of the file being opened. This clue is known as the "file extension". The extension is, by convention and inheritance, a three letter code at the end of a file name preceded by a period separating it from the rest of the name. (At one time the extension was important and was held separately from the name however, since Win98 this has been changed so that now it is simply part of the name.) The system (Windows) maintains a list of extensions and the applications associated with each. This way, when you opened a document Windows would look at the list and then launch the correct Application.

Ok, so why the history lesson? You ask.

Well, it is this difference that is the source of many "incompatibilities" between Windows and Mac systems. In fact, many times the files themselves are identically formated on the inside... but incorrectly identified on the "outside". You see, in a Mac the creator code is buried in a place where normal users can't get at it whereas for Windows its an editable part of the filename. Further since Mac's don't need the extension to determine who created the file they didn't normally put the extensions in the files name. So, when a Mac's file is moved to a Windows machine the "context" is lost and the same was true in reverse (in the pre-OS X era, though, Apple put a fix in for most file types through a third-party extension that does the mapping).

The result is a wide assortment of "false" incompatibilities...

Edited May 29, 2004 by Spacedog

[JadeWolf324]

all i want is for OSX to slow down their release cycle. i like updates but not DRASTIC ones like every 6-7 months...

[the evn show]

Spacedog: Where have you been? This forum needs more post like yours!

The timeframe between OS upgrades (according to a post on arstechnica that I can't find now) is about 12-14 months. I liked regular OS updates to the point that I'd be willing to pay "the $99 apple tax" every 6 months if apple could keep providing us with "pointfix" upgrades as significant as .1 - .2 and .2 - .3, sadly (as posted on the front page of neowin about a week ago and sourced in the first post of the original thread) the update schedule will be slowing down.

Something else I'd like to see brought back would be the old "internet" control panel that let you setup things like your default browser, email client, etc. Right now you can adjust those settings from within mail and safari respectively but a central location would be better. A good starting point would be the preferences panel from Internet Explorer 5/Mac (even today that browser isn't completely useless), though some extensions in the way of rcdefaultap would be all the better. Yet another feature that was taken away that should make a return IMO, i'd even be happy if they buried it away in /applications/utilities.

Hardware acceleration for more than just compositing would be awesome: it would fix the complaints people have for things like scrolling, windows resizing, etc. on lower-end hardware and even free up some CPU cycles on high end systems. For bonus points they could "steal some of the font caching services from longhorn", I'm not sure if it's in the pre-alpha versions people are warezing or not but from what I've read it's a good idea that would really help display performance.

The abridged version is:

Have the CPU render fonts in a bunch of common sizes (9, 10, 12, 14, 16... points) with a couple standard variations: bold, underline, italics using the most crisp anti-aliasing you can muster. Once you've rendered all the character store them in memory as textures. Whenever you have to draw a "f" character - rather than having the CPU rasterize the character from the font (which is a vector graphic) you can just have the video card use the 'pre-rendered' version as a texture.

It saves a lot of CPU time if you don't have to render ever character every time you update the view. If apple could get it out before Microsoft then all the better. People will still make the calls that Apple "stole" the idea - though you can be sure thats the sort of thing they've been working on for a while.

More clustering support would be cool. Let your iMac use the extra cycles from the macs in your home to compress video for iDVD or apply filters in iMovie, etc. We can already do this with xCode, now lets spread it around. I don't necessarily want to see it in any particular program: just a simple/clean API for doing it so that other programmers can use it (Adobe: I'm looking at you). Getting that in FinalCut Pro HD, DVD Studio, Logic, Motion, Soundtrack, and Combustion would make all the post production houses mighty happy. Might even sell a few more xServe compute nodes too.

[Spacedog]

Spacedog: Where have you been?  This forum needs more post like yours!

You're too kind... I'm really just trying to follow in your steps... you've been setting the pace for a determined maturation of this forum, a long-needed jump in the quality department... personally I'm convinced that all of us who have what little knowledge to share, must do it thoroughly and with due competence, so that this could become a serious and profitable place to hang out in...

[Southern Patriot]

all i want is for OSX to slow down their release cycle. i like updates but not DRASTIC ones like every 6-7 months...

What are you talking about? The releases of OS X have each been roughly a year apart, and Apple has already said they will be slowing this down some.

[macman87]

mac os x 10.0 - march 24, 2001

mac os x 10.1 - september 2001

mac os x 10.2 - august 2002

mac os x 10.3 - october 2003

as you can see, the gap for release is getting wider and wider. i don't expect tiger to be out till like macworld 2005 if apple is planning a big release. also, i apple continues to release updates to mac os x it would probably be os 11 (or whatever its called) by 10.6 or 10.7. looking at the past last releases...

system 7 - 7.6

Mac OS 8.6

Mac OS 9.2.2

[session]

mac os x 10.0 - march 24, 2001

mac os x 10.1 - september 2001

mac os x 10.2 - august 2002

mac os x 10.3 - october 2003

as you can see, the gap for release is getting wider and wider. i don't expect tiger to be out till like macworld 2005 if apple is planning a big release. also, i apple continues to release updates to mac os x it would probably be os 11 (or whatever its called) by 10.6 or 10.7. looking at the past last releases...

system 7 - 7.6

Mac OS 8.6

Mac OS 9.2.2

well, they don't need to follow the past pattern

[divinatum]

i for one am dissapointed that 10.4 is a free upgade. I was actually looking forward to standing inline at my local Apple Store and buying 10.4, see what little goodies they give out. ;) but thats just me.

[aitf311]

i for one am dissapointed that 10.4 is a free upgade. I was actually looking forward to standing inline at my local Apple Store and buying 10.4, see what little goodies they give out. ;) but thats just me.

are you kidding me? more money than sense

[macman87]

last year i went to get panther and they gave me a free t-shirt :)

[Redestium]

last year i went to get panther and they gave me a free t-shirt :)

So what you're saying is you'd rather have free clothing versus a free OS...(Y) :rolleyes:

[Tim Dorr Veteran]

i for one am dissapointed that 10.4 is a free upgade. I was actually looking forward to standing inline at my local Apple Store and buying 10.4, see what little goodies they give out. ;) but thats just me.

Who said it was free? Anyone saying that is just speculating or creating rumors.

[macman87]

So what you're saying is you'd rather have free clothing versus a free OS...(Y) :rolleyes:

no... but think about it... if its gonna be free i don't think it would be all that big of a release. it won't have as much features as panther. i like the idea of an os upgrade once every 18 months. get to try out new stuff and its just really cool. its nearly as great as getting a new mac. maybe even greater. :)

and i don't believe its gonna be free. apple has said it will slow down anyway...

[macman87]

well, they don't need to follow the past pattern

well no, but its pretty unlikely os x will get to to 10.9

[SeaClearly]

What I would like for Apple to do is this. Make Safari trick servers into thinking their browser is a different browser for this reason below. Launch.com. I would like Safari to tell the webserver that its Internet Explorer 6.0. Now I would like DVD Player to fully support WMA and WMV including the DRM formats. So if they do this I can finally watch music videos at launch.com because launch will never make it availabe to mac OS X.

So DVD Player 5.0 must support (S)VCD, Divx and WMA and WMV and have plug-ins for Safari. Some pages still won't display because of bad coding but at least we can view launch.com since right now they check for what you have and if Safari can trick launch into thinking its a supported browser we would be cool. But mainly those are my pet peaves and those IMO are much more important than some of these other things like Piles.

[JadeWolf324]

What are you talking about? The releases of OS X have each been roughly a year apart, and Apple has already said they will be slowing this down some.

perhaps ur right...i lose track of time sometimes...

:wacko:

[the evn show]

This is already in safari, just enable the debug menu. In terminal type:

defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

[PGHammer]

*If* X.4 will be a free upgrade:

1. It must work on all hardware that Panther supports.

2. There should be dual methods of distribution: electronic (both via AppleStore and via Apple Authorized Dealers) and CD/DVD delivery (for non-networked Macs and Macs with slow connections). Electronic distribution (at the dealer) can be either *download-and-burn* or the *burning party* method. AppleStore distribution can be in Toast and standard .ISO format (stuffed or GZipped) in case the downloading machine is *not* running MacOS.

3. Both CD and DVD images should be available.

[nuka_t]

just wanted to point a flaw with the WinFS-type thing rumour. apple wants people to be able to install OSX on as many pc's as possible. IF they were to add winfs, their possible install base would become a lot smaller and therefore they will make less money.

now, thinking about it, my flaw is flawed because 10.4 is a freeupgrade(supposedly). maybe that adds some weight to the winFS theory?

damnit, i proved my self wrong all by myself.

Edit:before you start flaming me, i know that it wont use "winfs", that is the only name i could think of to describe the tech.

[macman87]

i just don't think apple could do something like winfs, because they don't have something that is as powerful as what m$ has with yukon. correct me if i am wrong please :)

[session]

i just don't think apple could do something like winfs, because they don't have something that is as powerful as what m$ has with yukon. correct me if i am wrong please :)

yes, that's true. plus, they don't have the monopolied market as microsoft does :p (though that really has nothing to do with it :p)

[mr_daemon]

Ah the joy of data forks.

Reading all of this made me think of filesystems, I would like to see a non fragmenting filesystem on OS X. Many *nix filesystems are actually non fragmenting -- OS X seems to "optimize" my disks after every update they apply which is deadly slow on my iBook, since the disk IO and rotational speed is very slow on a laptop drive.

From what I read, it seems to be efficient. And in any case, a third party utility could be added.

I don't think a drastic filesystem change would be such a thing Apple would consider adding to this "interim" version, if I may refer to it in such manner. What changed there between 10.2 and 10.3 was that they only turned Journaling on by default.

And as for using the database indexed filesystem overlay, I don't know. I am very partial to this feature, regardless of the operating system. To me, it sounds like slocate only dynamically updated. You only interact with the database. I am wondering of the overhead involved in such a practice.

On another note, I am very interested in finding out how the swap and cache memory is handled by OS X. If anybody has whitepapers on this, it would be interesting. Among some of the things I think of before going to bed, compressed swap on a ramdisk seems to be one think that comes back sometimes, which is something I was pondering about while staring at the wall fifteen minutes ago. (I am bored. Yes.) Anyways that is out of the scope of this thread.

[the evn show]

just wanted to point a flaw with the WinFS-type thing rumour. apple wants people to be able to install OSX on as many pc's as possible. IF they were to add winfs, their possible install base would become a lot smaller and therefore they will make less money.

I don't understand this logic.

"If Apple adds (restores) support for a rich metadata file system then the potential install base for OS X will decrease?"

A filesystem is independent of the drive on which it exists, You could use NTFS, BFS, or HFS+ on an MFM, RLL, IDE, SCSI or SATA drive provided you could find controller cards and drivers for your system. The example you used (WinFS) is even less dependent on the drive: it is a service running at the operating system level: you data is stored on an NTFS partition (as far as the current information goes - this could all change in the two or three years left in development).

Apple doesn't want to install OS X on as many computer's as possible - that's Microsoft's goal for Windows. Apple wants to sell as many Macintosh systems as they can and adding new features which require more powerful hardware is an excellent way to further that end. Apple makes the majority of their money (revenue) from Macintosh sales, and due to the way they file their quarterly reports we have no way of knowing if they make ANY money from OS X sales: it may be a loss leader application like iTunes which exists only to sell hardware: Macintosh systems and iPods respectively.

Having the author (Dominic Giampaolo) of the 'original' rich metadata file system on your staff lends some credit to the rumors/speculation. If you're interested in some reading material you should check out his book:Practical Filesystem Design.

Mr. D: There is some information about OS X's handling of caching and virtual memory systems on ADC. However I'm afraid I don't have a link to offer at this time.

[edmonton]

I received my iBook days ago. Along with it, I also get "coupon", I think I might be able to use that coupon to get "Tiger"!