Why Linux Sucks as a Desktop OS

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Bottom line. Most of these problems can be traced to lack of integration between components in Linux. Until there is some integration Linux is unlikely to gain a foothold in the desktop market.

I do agree with his conclusion (he probably gleamed it from somewhere) but the article does have some outstanding technical flaws. Choice is good but it's more efficient when a central authority provides direction. That's why I'd like to see Gnome drop Eliphany and simple choose to integrate Firefox 1.0 into Gnome 2.8. I'd really like to see something done about Gnome vs KDE but I don't expect that to ever to resolved. I'd also like to see XFce3's panel integrated into Fluxbox and have that declared as the official "light" GUI.

His points:

#1 The integration of device (and otherwise) drivers into the system

NTFS drivers are only required for local access to drives not SMB shares.

#2 Video drivers & X

Purchase ATI or Nvidia cards (which are the majority anyway) and you'll be fine under Linux.

#3 Plug and Play

Linux needs more work on overall user-friendliness. I don't consider this issue to be a top priority.

#4 Out of the box

There are plenty of Linux distros that install everything including the kitchen sink onto your hard drive. Really, if there's a problem it's that you have to sift through the stuff you don't want. Just about every distro includes one or more Linux kernels, one or more GUIs, one of more office packages, one or more web-browsers, etc, etc...

Linux isn't really going anywhere on the desktop but not for his reasons. I'm spending the time to learn Linux for its server capabilities and it's abilty to replace a domain controller for a small network while providing file and print sharing.

I don't think it's impossible to succeed as a desktop OS but it still needs a lot of work and a lot more consistency.

[markwolfe Veteran]

What a strange and unprofessionally biased article... :unsure:

Yes, RedHat/Fedora do not provide NTFS support out of the box for their own reasons. Almost every other distro on God's green earth does. Obviously, this was the author's biggest pet peeve, and he wanted to use it to build a strong case to support the conclusion he likely had to begin with. :rolleyes: If he picked nearly any other distro, this point he keeps pounding on would not exist. Obviously, he targetted RedHat specifically to rant about this one distro, not Linux as a whole. Plus, this is a dual-boot 'issue'. WIth a true Linux desktop PC (100% Linux), this is a non-issue.

Video drivers haven't been a problem with my nVidia card. Downloaded the executeable from nVidia and ran it. Viola! I have yummy 3D goodness. Perhaps the running a command thing could be improved, but it isn't difficult/impossible. And, if this PC is a workstation then it isn't necessary at all. Gamers will want to do this, however. This is not a functionality issue, but could use improvement in the way it is installed. (although the writer seems to have a grudge against RPMs, so a double-click solution on an icon probably would not please him, either)

Plug-n-Play hasn't been a problem for me. In fact, it is kind of nice to plug my scanner in and just have it work without having ot use the vendor's driver disk. I am sure that there are devices out there that have problems in Linux, and require downloading a module or something. Windows has a big advantage in this department at this time, anyway. All hardware manufacturers have to write drivers for Windows in order to sell their product. Currently, the Open Source community has to do this themselves. More and more vendors are starting to support Open Source more, and this problem that the author had will diminish.

His last point regarding out of the box is amusing. Again, he picks RedHat because of NTFS and MP3 issues, where almost every other distro supports these items 'out of the box'. Once could argue that Windows isn't very good out of the box either by pointing out the lack of apps that come in a Windows XP CD. No Office suite, no server software (even though Pro includess IIS, Microsoft puts an artificial limit on connected users). I think he is comparing a WIndows solution from Dell to a RedHat free download. Perhaps he should compare a pre-installed Linux solution that is paid for (and would include the licensed MP3, the propriatary video driver, etc.).

An amusing read. There are some valid points on ease of use, but the functionality is all there, and Linux gets much easier to use with every release.

[xXTOKERXx]

windows - home user

linux - semi pro, pro, interested.

windows with linux - some one who knows there ****...

[forster]

Over 1200 words and didnt bother with a spellcheck - perhaps he should have just hit himself in the face, it would have got him more respect than that POS.

Thousands will agree with me that Linux is quite acceptable as a desktop system, Im sick of people who are too scared of the command line to give something a decent try, what a retard.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Linux is cool, but so is windows.

Now that i have that out of the way i will explain why linux wont topple windows as the dominant desktop os (for a while anyway ;))

1. Linux is so very varied, this is good because there is so much choice, but bad because some software wont work under one distro while it will under another.

2. Software complication, i could look for ever and wouldnt find a n00b who could compile code from the terminal, windows has never needed this because all programs are (mostly) closed source, and the open source programs are realy only distributed to people with compilers (source code downloads i mean, not like compiled builds of firefox). Even Mac OS X has this but most mac programs are still closed source, most users never need to touch the terminal

3. It's easy for power users to compile code or install drivers or to set up linux as a web server, but most people who would be using it on the desktop are n00bs, they dont know what half that stuff is

It's easy for power users to poke holes in the document, but you have to get in the mindset of a absolute n00b while reading this.

Now, im done, and i got no idea what i just wrote ;)

Edit: i couldnt have said it better xXTOKERXx

[CaKeY]

Your reactions reflect to us one of the biggest problems of the Linux community today. Deny everything that's what you do. No matter how many people complain about these things in Linux, no one fixes them and you won't listen to people with other needs than yourselves, no wonder Linux is not dominating the desktop market.

Where do you see anyone denying anything here? Linux USERS are posting FACTS in this thread.

[Joel]

I have witnessed at least as many situations where a user buys/builds a rather expensive computer to run Windows only to have it formatted to serve as a Linux desktop. Strangely I don't draw the conclusion that Windows sucks as a desktop OS but rather that I know some people who would prefer to use Linux for reasons that I can only speculate at.

Windows cannot read RieserFS, HFS+, UFS, XFS, BFS, etc. volumes - does that mean it sucks as a desktop OS? The only way a "new computer user or light Windows user" would have to access files on an NTFS volume would be if they were to pull apart two computer, slap the hard disk from one into the other then reboot - make sure it's connected properly (and troubleshoot problems any problems).

You can get MP3 encoders and DVD decoders for free too but they aren't paying the royalties to their patent holders so it isn't all-legit. Just because you _can_ do something doesn't mean that it's entirely legal, just because they aren't kicking down your door doesn't mean it is either. I'm sure most major Linux distributions have lawyers checking into things like this and that they know what they're doing.

You don't need to be able to read/write NTFS drives to access an smbfs share. I don't know why someone who is actually qualified to write about the shortcomings of an OS would think that..unless they really aren't qualified after all.

I'm reasonably sure that the distributions included on these $300 machines have all the modules required to support just about anything the people they're marketed to will want to do. If they decide they want to install a new scheduler later then they can, but it's not a skill these users will need.

Which is exactly the sort of thing new computer users and light windows users will be doing 10 minutes after figuring out how to make the 'cup holder' go back inside.

No they're not. But thanks for proving you know absolutely nothing about they way Linux works.

The computer he was talking about at the beginning of the article will have the drivers pre-installed when it ships, just like an HP, Dell, or Gateway. As we already know NVidia and ATI have Linux drivers for their cards readily available.

Wow, it's like he called my grandma the day she got her first computer and asked her for her #1 complaint because the the first thing she said to me was "Yeah, I just got this new compu-net thingy and I'm trying to install Linux on a second partition so I can dual boot with Windows but I'm stuck using the generic video drivers."

Q to anybody has a Windows machine still sitting about: does Windows XP ship with drivers for the GeForce FX or ATI 9600 line of cards already installed?

They are.

My experience is that on both systems things like mice, keyboard, and most well-understood hardware will work, but anything 'out of the ordinary' will require you to install some sort of driver.

If you want to experience 'true plug and play' buy a Macintosh and any 'designed for OS X' badged hardware. Then prepare to be amazed as plugging in your digital camera launches iPhoto and imports your new pictures into your library without bugging you with "add new hardware wizards" and the like.

Dang! I wonder what's going to happen when he wakes up and realizes he's full of horse-shot.

whatever. Maybe you could team up with Windows favorite fanboy: Paul Thurrot and tag team Linux and OS X into submission or at least he can help you work on your site. Maybe he can explain to you that animated GIFs and liberal use of the drop shadow filter are so 1999. I'm actually surprised you didn't know that already as anyone who hand codes their HTML but also feels the need to brag about the fact in their source:

<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Notepad">

would have been ridiculed out of that sort of behavior years ago. Sure it's a bit of a personal attack there - but he really didn't leave me anything else to talk about.

His conclusion might be correct but his premises do not support support it.

I'm also not sure why he starts by setting this up as a "new users hate linux" rant, and then changes over to an "advanced things work different" rant.

I can't weight for his next essay "why bicycles are crumby forms of transportation" where he'll support his thesis by explaining why the VW Golf doesn't have a jet-turbine engine and then conclude that the sky is made of pudding.

Either way, I guess I don't agree with him at all (whoever it is: the authors name isn't listed on the article).

Did you read what he was talking about at all? Yes, everything can be made to work, with a little patience and/or know-how. But his point is that retailers are selling Linux boxes for the home (l)user and for them, Linux is not a viable alternative to Windows. If you would actually listen ti his points, you would have to agree that he speaks the truth, in relation to the point I mentioned about who the target audience is.

Your post was more shrill with each passing point. Interesting you mentioned fanboys.

I personally love playing with Linux, but at the end of the day there are too many steps to take to get my stuff to work as I want it too. And I am lightyears ahead of Joe Wal-Mart Shopper when it comes to computer expertise.

[CaKeY]

I agree. The target audience appears to be people who dont know much about Linux.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I do agree that some responses are trying too hard.

I'll stick with my reasoning that three of his four points are stupid. I've said them before but you don't need a NTFS driver to connect to a shared directory (as the author suggested). 2) As long as you choose ATI or Nvidia the video driver problem is rather solved. If his core-point was that you need to be careful that your hardware is fully supported then I'd have agreed with him. 3) I'll give him the Plug and Pray point. Linux < Windows < Mac and finally 4) He says that you don't get enough software with it. I think that, if anything, you get too much junk.

I think there is a place to be critical of Linux on the Desktop. It's only on 2-5% (or whatever) of desktops for a reason. Criticism is just. Just not this criticism.

[Kasteo]

Linux is not ready as a Desktop OS because most users is not smart enought to use it yet. :cool:

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Linux is not ready as a Desktop OS because most users is not smart enought to use it yet. :cool:

So Linux need only sit back a few million years for evolution and natural selection to take it's course?

Should we sterilize those with less than 100 IQ points to sort of speed along the process?

"Damn, I tried to download Linux but I failed the skill testing question!"

I propose the first skill testing question to be:

"What type of crystals power Federation Starships?"

If they can't answer that question then they have no business using Linux.

[CaKeY]

"What type of crystals power Federation Starships?"

Dilithium :D

(and im only a lowly Mandrake user, the Slack users are even smarter than me!)

[computerchan]

I'm a linux n00b running VMWare + RH9 so I can't feel anything wrong with the Plug n play problem yet.

Well, about the plug and play problem on Linux I don't think the writer should point the blade to Linux only, how about the manufactures? did they make any support to Linux? (Yea some do but I can't feel it's majority yet...)

Honestly, I do agree that Linux is not very suitable as a desktop OS *yet*, that's why I put my RH9 into VMWare as my testing web server.

[djesteban]

My experience is that on both systems things like mice, keyboard, and most well-understood hardware will work, but anything 'out of the ordinary' will require you to install some sort of driver.

If you want to experience 'true plug and play' buy a Macintosh and any 'designed for OS X' badged hardware. Then prepare to be amazed as plugging in your digital camera launches iPhoto and imports your new pictures into your library without bugging you with "add new hardware wizards" and the like.

hmmm.... why the hell would I need OSX to do that??

The "add new hardware wizards" in WinXP is long gone if it's supported hardware... winXP will detect and install it automatically. For newer stuff that can't be found automatically in WinXP, you can always find the appropriate driver online and/or wait 1 week and windows update will take care of it...heh

With stupid OSX, you have to buy hardware that has designed for OSX or trust me you'll have a hard time installing your hardware since there's no such thing generic driver (that can work until you find the appropriate driver).

Ohhh... and if you like to pay for an OS that you need to pay for minor update (i.e. 10.4.3, 10.5.54.3.6.3.5...heh) just for the kick of it... OSX is made for you

at least big bad windows doesn't charge for SP

[Fred Derf Veteran]

hmmm.... why the hell would I need OSX to do that??

The "add new hardware wizards" in WinXP is long gone if it's supported hardware... winXP will detect and install it automatically. For newer stuff that can't be found automatically in WinXP, you can always find the appropriate driver online and/or wait 1 week and windows update will take care of it...heh

...

Ohhh... and if you like to pay for an OS that you need to pay for minor update (i.e. 10.4.3, 10.5.54.3.6.3.5...heh) just for the kick of it... OSX is made for you

at least big bad windows doesn't charge for SP

Purchase a Epson inkjet printer and the instructions will tell you to keep your printer disconnected until after you have installed our software. Not everyone follows Microsoft's PnP model.

10.x editions have included more than just security and bug fixes. The feature set has evolved too. However, you will be pleased to know that OS/X 10.4 will be free to those who paid for 10.3

[computerchan]

hmmm.... why the hell would I need OSX to do that??

The "add new hardware wizards" in WinXP is long gone if it's supported hardware... winXP will detect and install it automatically. For newer stuff that can't be found automatically in WinXP, you can always find the appropriate driver online and/or wait 1 week and windows update will take care of it...heh

With stupid OSX, you have to buy hardware that has designed for OSX or trust me you'll have a hard time installing your hardware since there's no such thing generic driver (that can work until you find the appropriate driver).

Ohhh... and if you like to pay for an OS that you need to pay for minor update (i.e. 10.4.3, 10.5.54.3.6.3.5...heh) just for the kick of it... OSX is made for you

at least big bad windows doesn't charge for SP

Write the OSX version of this article, man :rofl:

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Dilithium :D

(and im only a lowly Mandrake user, the Slack users are even smarter than me!)

And Gentoo users would tell you the required purity and atomic mass of the dilithium crystals. Not to mention proper storage techniques...

[Redestium]

"What type of crystals power Federation Starships?"

If they can't answer that question then they have no business using Linux.

:laugh: :laugh: :rofl:

Classic.

[Southern Patriot]

With stupid OSX, you have to buy hardware that has designed for OSX or trust me you'll have a hard time installing your hardware since there's no such thing generic driver (that can work until you find the appropriate driver).

Ohhh... and if you like to pay for an OS that you need to pay for minor update (i.e. 10.4.3, 10.5.54.3.6.3.5...heh) just for the kick of it... OSX is made for you

at least big bad windows doesn't charge for SP

You are as clueless about OS X as the author of the article is about Linux.

1. I plugged in my Microsoft keyboard (definitely NOT designed for OS X), and it worked flawlessly (the Windows key even worked as the Apple key). Same can be said for my HP printer. And an older Logitech trackball.

2. The only paid upgrades were 10.2 and 10.3. 10.1 was free for users of 10.0. Each 10.x change is equivalent to Windows changing from Win2000 to WinXP (versions 5.0 and 5.1, respectively). The 10.2.x or 10.3.x updates are equivalent to Windows Service Packs, and are free.

[sui'ke]

I've seen many of these articles... win vs lin,

but you have to ask yourself this question:

do you really want linux to be an easy to use desktop os, all you have to do is click... ?

well i dont, because...

1. i like linux as it is (gives me a challenge from time to time)

2. if it would be easy to use... and evereybody starts using it... it will become commercial, they will start charging money for software, distro's, etc

just my two cents

[markwolfe Veteran]

I've seen many of these articles... win vs lin,

but you have to ask yourself this question:

do you really want linux to be an easy to use desktop os, all you have to do is click... ?

well i dont, because...

1. i like linux as it is (gives me a challenge from time to time)

2. if it would be easy to use... and evereybody starts using it... it will become commercial, they will start charging money for software, distro's, etc

just my two cents

Yeah, but you have to admit that the 'down to earth' features you enjoy aren't mutually exclusive with a goal of making a 'super easy to use' version of Linux.

As Linux users, we will still all have the choice of which distro (or build LFS, just like always). Power users will gravitate to the Slacks, Gentoos and Debians. Middle-of-the-roaders will use the SUSEs, Fedoras and Mandrakes.

And the super easy versions can be some future version of Linspire, Xandros, Lycoris and Linare.

[sui'ke]

i guess you got a point there

[Rek]

FIRE FIRE Call the Engines oh noes!1!!1?

:DD

[kjordan2001]

And Gentoo users would tell you the required purity and atomic mass of the dilithium crystals. Not to mention proper storage techniques...

So would that mean Linux From Scratch people can tell you how to make your own dilithium crystals? :D

[markwolfe Veteran]

So would that mean Linux From Scratch people can tell you how to make your own dilithium crystals?  :D

And they install Linux in Klingon! :woot:

ok, enough of the silliness... :yes: