Why Linux Sucks as a Desktop OS

[Emon]

So would that mean Linux From Scratch people can tell you how to make your own dilithium crystals? :D

LSF !! I just printed that book .. ( free printing from work :p ) guess thats gonna be my summer project.

Gentoo is getting too old.

[the evn show]

Did you read what he was talking about at all? If you would actually listen ti his points, you would have to agree that he speaks the truth, in relation to the point I mentioned about who the target audience is.

Yes I did. And I stand by my original "conclusion": he might be right about Linux sucking as a desktop OS, but he certainly doesn't prove it with his article.

But his point is that retailers are selling Linux boxes for the home (l)user and for them, Linux is not a viable alternative to Windows.

From his article I get the distinct impression niether Windows nor Linux is an Acceptable OS for home "(l)users".

Take a look at his article point by point:

1)Case and point. RedHat 8 and 9 provide no ability to access WinXP NTFS volumes

How is this something a home user going to do? Am I honestly expected to believe that an absolute computer novice is going to be installing hard disks with NTFS partitions into a machine the (for the purposes of his article) first machine they've every owned? It doesn't support his point at all.

2)Problem #2. Video drivers & X.

He makes a number of BS arguments here

a) Xfree has no controll over video drivers - which really doesn't matter because a machine shipped to you running Linux will have drivers for the hardware already installed.

b) That our novice user is going to have a hard time finding drivers for common video hardware (which is false). c) Our new user is going to be buying and installing a new video card in the first place (but not be able to follow the instructions to install drivers on Linux, but will have no problem at all on Windows)

d) That our novice user is going to be trying to set up a dual boot system.

3) usually takes several hours of hunting for software to make the system usable if at all.

As opposed to Windows which ships with an MP3 encoder, Office Suite, Image editor, etc.

Maybe the 'brand name' boxes do - but so do the machines running Linux.

He starts out with a person buying their first computer - but then talks about how they will have problems accessing a hard disk they've installed, installing new video card drivers (again for hardware they're apparently installing themselves), having a tough time setting up a dual boot system (assuming these novices even know what an operating system is!).

Maybe he could have argued that someone who is used to Windows wouldn't feel at home in Linux, but random q newbie is likely to be equally "lost" on both system: They're going to want to do the typical things:

email, web browse, word processing, music...

He could have supported his point by attacking the difficulty of accomplishing those tasks in Linux vs the ease they can be done in Windows but instead he talked about adding support for for foreign file systems, installing drivers for a video card, and "hunting down" software for making your computer useable (ignoring that most modern linux distribution ship with gigabytes more 'useful' software than Windows.

The arguments don't support the conclusion, the article was poorly written and technically inaccurate: what exactly did I miss?

[Sir CoRN]

Linux sucks as a desktop os ? Ha ! I think not.

Maybe for people who are too stupid to learn, or RTFM.

I don't want Linux to become any easier, using a cmd line is faster and more effecient than a GUI.

[canbeli]

actually, i dont think you cant.

i can see why the author wrote this, as well as his "proof," but like always, linux still needs a lot of work before it can rival Windows on the Desktop/PC.

ya i htink you can

it should have been meant for windows, or at least more of these kinds of stuff on mswin than linux. afterall, linux in NOT developed like windows, so you cant expect too much of it can you?

[the evn show]

I don't want Linux to become any easier, using a cmd line is faster and more effecient than a GUI.

$10 says I can produce a movie poster using Photoshop faster than you can do the same image using some command line tool.

Q: Are you browsing using lynx or telnet?

[Schmoove]

Linux is ok as a desktop OS. It is not quite there, but they are making some good progress. I installed Fedora Core 2 a couple of weeks ago and any idiot can use it, it is really easy and installs a lot of useful applications for you. You have enough tools for office, internet and graphics related stuff. Getting videos and MP3 to play is a bit harder, but with some help from the internet it shouldn't be too hard.

The thing that irritates me about Linux as a desktop OS is that the interface is slow compared to Windows. Resizing, opening, moving windows doesn't feel as snappy as it does in Windows. This might be a minor thing for some people, but it is my main reason for keep using Windows.

[Bearded Kirklander]

I like Linux just fine. It is not as easy as Windows, I guess because I'm all used to Windows, but Linux is not bad. It is complicated to me, but I like that when the GUI gets foobarred you can KILLX and do everything on the command line if you want. That is great. I wish it was easier to attach two way to windows networks and I wish it could see fat32 drives and link (automount) to them without wiping out the data (happened in redhat) and stuff like that, but I suppose I just need to find the right application to activate the networking drive sharing stuff.

For me, Windows is productive because it is what I know. If Linux had only one interface that was default, like KDE, maybe it would be easier to learn for people.

[memNOC]

$10 says I can produce a movie poster using Photoshop faster than you can do the same image using some command line tool.

Q: Are you browsing using lynx or telnet?

heh. own3d.

i'm sick of people who are somehow in love with command-line and completely think GUIs are worthless. basically, they're the kind to think just because something is harder to do/use (Linux, Firefox, any l33t command-line tool.. BTW wget SUCKS!!!!) it automatically makes them smarter/their software better and takes them that much closer to being truly elite.. :rolleyes: now, i have nothing against Linux -- in fact, i've dual-booted for quite sometime -- nor Firefox... no, scratch that, FF sucks.. if it wasn't for the standards compliancy, it would be worthless..

so yea, go ahead. knock yourself out with command-line. in the meantime, i'll be using whatever's more comfortable.

[kjordan2001]

heh. own3d.

i'm sick of people who are somehow in love with command-line and completely think GUIs are worthless. basically, they're the kind to think just because something is harder to do/use (Linux, Firefox, any l33t command-line tool.. BTW wget SUCKS!!!!) it automatically makes them smarter/their software better and takes them that much closer to being truly elite.. :rolleyes: now, i have nothing against Linux -- in fact, i've dual-booted for quite sometime -- nor Firefox... no, scratch that, FF sucks.. if it wasn't for the standards compliancy, it would be worthless..

so yea, go ahead. knock yourself out with command-line. in the meantime, i'll be using whatever's more comfortable.

How's wget suck? It does what it needs to do, get a file.

[Schmoove]

heh. own3d.

i'm sick of people who are somehow in love with command-line and completely think GUIs are worthless. basically, they're the kind to think just because something is harder to do/use (Linux, Firefox, any l33t command-line tool.. BTW wget SUCKS!!!!) it automatically makes them smarter/their software better and takes them that much closer to being truly elite.. :rolleyes: now, i have nothing against Linux -- in fact, i've dual-booted for quite sometime -- nor Firefox... no, scratch that, FF sucks.. if it wasn't for the standards compliancy, it would be worthless..

so yea, go ahead. knock yourself out with command-line. in the meantime, i'll be using whatever's more comfortable.

I don't see what Firefox has to do with it.... it is just a browser :s

[kjordan2001]

I don't see what Firefox has to do with it.... it is just a browser :s

And how is Firefox harder to use? :unsure:

[memNOC]

I don't see what Firefox has to do with it.... it is just a browser :s

yea, but i think it sucks, and it's somehow related to how i think the l33t community sucks.. all details, just skim through em..

And how is Firefox harder to use?  :unsure:

harder shouldn't have been the adjective.. 'more complicated' feels better.. for the simple fact that you have to download a dozen 'extensions' just so you can get simple features/options you take for granted in other browsers.. 'more complicated'? definitelly.

and i do see the advantage of it, it's highly customizable. so i guess it's for people with extreme patience, or who have nothing better to do with their time than to spend hours configuring their browser. and i'm not either of those.

but let's not turn this to FF..

"Linux sucks as a desktop OS".. talk amongst yourselves.

[Schmoove]

yea, but i think it sucks, and it's somehow related to how i think the l33t community sucks.. all details, just skim through em..

Again I fail to see why I should think I am l33t if I am using Firefox. For me it is just a browser that offers me what I need/like. Opera, IE, MyIE, Avantbrowser.... they all might be better, but Firefox is what I like, so that is what I use. It has nothing to do with being elite or whatever.

Besides that I like it how it works with extensions. I normally only install 2 or 3, so it fits my needs perfectly. As in Opera you also have an IRC client and a mail client, great if you use it, but I have other software for that.... so it is overkill for me.

[Bearded Kirklander]

Again I fail to see why I should think I am l33t if I am using Firefox. For me it is just a browser that offers me what I need/like. Opera, IE, MyIE, Avantbrowser.... they all might be better, but Firefox is what I like, so that is what I use. It has nothing to do with being elite or whatever.

Besides that I like it how it works with extensions. I normally only install 2 or 3, so it fits my needs perfectly. As in Opera you also have an IRC client and a mail client, great if you use it, but I have other software for that.... so it is overkill for me.

My IE 2 makes me feel twice as l33t as using just IE. I use it because the 2 in the title makes me feel better about me as an IE user. :D :rofl:

[markwolfe Veteran]

$10 says I can produce a movie poster using Photoshop faster than you can do the same image using some command line tool.

Q: Are you browsing using lynx or telnet?

evn,

Normally you post good infomation that is relevant, and have good discussions.

But what was that?

The poster you quoted said that "using a cmd line is faster and more effecient than a GUI". And, because he didn't say the obvious regarding stuff like editing video clips and other conventionally graphical tasks, you decide to jump in with a petty comment? His comment stated his general preference for working with a PC; there was no need to turn around and make into a personal confrontation.

I guess that the original poster could have said 'for administrative tasks'. Perhaps he should have. :rolleyes:

[TaRaKa]

I could write the same thing about windows....

Exactaly

[Nichotin]

yea well thats the problem, because Linux has no chance to compete untill it has good drivers

Most of the open source drivers are good, really. Just look at the wireless cards and scanners. you are using sane that will work for many scanners of different models and brands, and you are using e.g prism54 for many prism-based wireless nics. This is way better than one manufacturers program per device. SMC's own ezconnect cant even go into managed mode.

[Tek]

Considering Linux was never designed to be a desktop OS, I think it's doing pretty well.

[nexx]

My problem with linux has always been installing things. There are some great, smart and user-friendly programs available which rival their closed-source counterparts, and even my grandmother could use them (and she has!)...but try and install the bloody things...

I want to go to a web site, download the distribution independant file, double click on it, and that's that (and whats with Fedora Core 2 not even having an rpm ui assosiated? It's a pitiful interface anyway). If it cant find dependancies, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, it's great to tell me what it is, but what the hell am I supposed to do with "libowned-0.5.6757". Search my yum and apt config repositories, have a list built in or at the very least tell me where I can get it.

Telling me to add some lines to my yum/apt config on your site to install your program is not good enough imo.

Over the past 2 years I have seen linux make leaps and bounds on the desktop, I use linux 90% of the time and am looking optimistic towards hitting 100% within a few more years :)

Edited June 11, 2004 by nexx

[dismuter]

I guess that the original poster could have said 'for administrative tasks'.  Perhaps he should have.  :rolleyes:

Nowadays, command lines are more efficient than GUIs for just a few things only, the majority of those being where you want to filter informatin with pattern matching.

Basic example: rm file*.txt

It's also very practical when you want to automate a job using batch files.

Otherwise, a good UI can be so much more productive, be it administrative or other. It's more intuitive, the relevant information is in front of you.

[markwolfe Veteran]

I agree with your points, nexx. And, the funny thing is, this is all fixable right now.

You used Fedora's RPM system as your example, which is fair, as many first-timers use RedHat/Fedora because of name recognition.

Yum addresses many of the technical aspects of dependencies and makes installing something complex much easier. At least for those of us who look around and search out the program name we want, and type yum install celestia, for example.

Perhaps what is needed to make a Linux for the Masses is to make a gum, or a Graphical Yum (same could be applied to apt, or any other package management system like this). Sort of make it like (and everybody forgive me for saying this) the Lindows/Linspire Click-n-Run. I think that using the "software store" metaphor works, and any grandmother that wanted to to install a genealogy program (not included in any distro I know of!) can go to the virtual "software store", and pick the "Family" aisle, and look around. There would be pictures (perhaps like a box cover, or screenshots, or both) and short diescriptions of program features, like the back side of a box. Click on it to install, and it runs the yum or apt command needed to install the program (and needed libraries) from the repository.

Actually, it does sound a lot like Click-n-Run (except, in my head this is all free) ;)

[IvIoyner]

Synaptic is an frontend for apt-get (apt-get for fedora and redhat or debian's apt-get) that let's you browse software in categories, update your system, read descriptions and so on, pretty much what you want. Similar tools exist for most distros ;)

[JaredFrost]

Linux sucks as a desktop os ? Ha ! I think not.

Maybe for people who are too stupid to learn, or RTFM.

I don't want Linux to become any easier, using a cmd line is faster and more effecient than a GUI.

I think thats his point exactly, The average computer user is a little on the slow side when it comes to computers; And will not read any manual

infact a lot of them have poor reading skills; They will just conclude it doesn't work and call Tech Support; I do Tech Support and A LOT of people

have trouble with simple things like opening and closing programs, Saving files and knowing where it's saved, more than half wont know what the

control panel is.. I better stop about before into a rant about work....

Anyway, I think his point is Average Joe wont have the computer skills or patience to use any Linux distro

without more PnP support and as little 'user' interaction for hardware/software installations/upgrades

[aldo]

heh. own3d.

i'm sick of people who are somehow in love with command-line and completely think GUIs are worthless. basically, they're the kind to think just because something is harder to do/use (Linux, Firefox, any l33t command-line tool.. BTW wget SUCKS!!!!) it automatically makes them smarter/their software better and takes them that much closer to being truly elite.. :rolleyes: now, i have nothing against Linux -- in fact, i've dual-booted for quite sometime -- nor Firefox... no, scratch that, FF sucks.. if it wasn't for the standards compliancy, it would be worthless..

so yea, go ahead. knock yourself out with command-line. in the meantime, i'll be using whatever's more comfortable.

Go home troll.

1. Wget is freaking fantastic for loads of purposes you obviously haven't thought of. What if I want to make a PHP script to download a file to disk without writing your own download class (not hard, I understand but this is just an example)? I just call the command line with wget [address] and I have the file downloaded. Now, there is virtually no-way you can do that sort of automation with a GUI.

2. Some people enjoy using computers and learning new skills.

3. 'FF Sucks'. Right. Is this just to incite more flames on you or what? Firefox is a great browser for many, many people and does exactly what they want to. Obviously in your world of authoritarian software choices everyone would use MyIE2 or some other browser.

In conclusion, you've totally missed the point of the command line. The command line is easy to automate, and is great for some purposes (how would you copy 14,356 files with 001 in the middle and ending with .jpeg with a GUI? It's no-where near as 'comfortable'. Then again, you wouldn't use it to design images or edit video but that is because it's not designed to do that.

[aldo]

yea, but i think it sucks, and it's somehow related to how i think the l33t community sucks.. all details, just skim through em..

harder shouldn't have been the adjective.. 'more complicated' feels better.. for the simple fact that you have to download a dozen 'extensions' just so you can get simple features/options you take for granted in other browsers.. 'more complicated'? definitelly.

and i do see the advantage of it, it's highly customizable. so i guess it's for people with extreme patience, or who have nothing better to do with their time than to spend hours configuring their browser. and i'm not either of those.

but let's not turn this to FF..

"Linux sucks as a desktop OS".. talk amongst yourselves.

What the **** are you on about. More complicted? FF has no more options/buttons (if anything, less complex) than IE does when you start it up.

The whole point of extensions is so you DONT need to download them if you don't need them. I use zero extensions for FF and I am a 'power user' and use it for upwards of 5 hours per day. It does everything I need.

Look at the amount of bloat in MyIE2. Mouse guestures (keyboard shortcuts do me fine), 'Super drag and drop' (FF does this by default), overbloated privacy options and basically, a horribly bloated browser when you start it up.