The US and the International Criminal Court

[Aaron Veteran]

care to elaborate on that insult as to why my post merited such a response?

saddam must have realised that he was going to be caught by the americans and tried for war crimes. why would he not use those suposed WMD he has stockpiled all over the country, launchable within 45 mins?

Just to play the hypothetical game here:

Assume you have some weapons in your home. You are on probation because you were convicted of home invasion, armed robbery , and murder. You agree as a condition to not have any weapons of any kind. Being the bad guy that you are, you of course begin to stockpile weapons. You have some gang banger buddies who come by from time to time an you hook them up with a gun here and there. You are getting pretty powerful as far as the neighborhood goes and are helping arm up some other pretty bad thugs.

Your parole officer insists on inspecting your house for contraband. You refuse spot checks and only allowing planned visits to predetermined rooms in your house. This goes on for a while, and then you realize you have ****ed off the cops so bad they are finally coming in with the SWAT to utterly kick your ass. How much do you think your cache of weapons will do now? Now they have automatic weapons and bullet proof vests and those cool face shield things.

Also, you think, if I toss this **** out the window before they show up, then I can cry police brutality and get a bunch of ACLU folks to defend me. It will be a PR nightmare for the cops (who are already besieged with negative complaints) and they will be forced under public pressure to back off and leave me alone.

That is just a hypothetical, but why could that not have been what happened?

[LOC Veteran]

america wont actually attack a country with WMD

We wouldn't hesitate actually. Do you really think the morons in SAC command care if the other country has WMD? Hahaha.

Something to do with China emerging to be the world's biggest economy. Or maybe because China with it's military muscle would not hesitate to teach the U.S. Government a lesson if it starts screwing with it's internal affairs or affairs of state.

I'm sorry, but the US military would destroy the Chinese. Frankly the only country who would stand toe to toe with us, sadly is Israel. (Note, I'm not talking nukes here, or amounts of soldiers, just in the power of the military)

[b3n]

heres another hypothetical scenario

you have some weapons you not alowed

soem people are comming over to lock you away foreveer because you have them

why not go out with a bang?

[LOC Veteran]

Sounds like Israel to me.

[Joel]

I'm sorry, but the US military would destroy the Chinese. Frankly the only country who would stand toe to toe with us, sadly is Israel. (Note, I'm not talking nukes here, or amounts of soldiers, just in the power of the military)

And that is based on what? China has more people of conscription age than the entire population of the US, if not North America. And they do have military power. Why on earth do you think they don't?

[LOC Veteran]

As I said in my post, I wasn't talking about the amounts of people involved here, obviously China would come out a tad on top. I'm talking total military might here. The Chinese while very powerful, I don't believe would be able to go toe to toe in a conventional situation.

[Aaron Veteran]

heres another hypothetical scenario

you have some weapons you not alowed

soem people are comming over to lock you away foreveer because you have them

why not go out with a bang?

The answer to your question is actually in my scenario. Going out with a bang ensures your destruction, playing the game gives you a chance to rebound with some credibility.

[Black Hawk]

Just to play the hypothetical game here:

Assume you have some weapons in your home.  You are on probation because you were convicted of home invasion, armed robbery , and murder.  You agree as a condition to not have any weapons of any kind.  Being the bad guy that you are, you of course begin to stockpile weapons.  You have some gang banger buddies who come by from time to time an you hook them up with a gun here and there.  You are getting pretty powerful as far as the neighborhood goes and are helping arm up some other pretty bad thugs. 

Your parole officer insists on inspecting your house for contraband.  You refuse spot checks and only allowing planned visits to predetermined rooms in your house.  This goes on for a while, and then you realize you have ****ed off the cops so bad they are finally coming in with the SWAT to utterly kick your ass.  How much do you think your cache of weapons will do now?  Now they have automatic weapons and bullet proof vests and those cool face shield things. 

Also, you think, if I toss this **** out the window before they show up, then I can cry police brutality and get a bunch of ACLU folks to defend me.  It will be a PR nightmare for the cops (who are already besieged with negative complaints) and they will be forced under public pressure to back off and leave me alone.

That is just a hypothetical, but why could that not have been what happened?

Cause the cops are considered morally corrupt within the neighborhood, they don't care about the ACLU or public opnion, they only besiege gangsters that don't pay them off and the guns that the guy has are police issued. ;) :laugh:

The answer to your question is actually in my scenario.  Going out with a bang ensures your destruction, playing the game gives you a chance to rebound with some credibility.

He would still be destroyed even if he didn't have them

[Dave Veteran]

As I said in my post, I wasn't talking about the amounts of people involved here, obviously China would come out a tad on top. I'm talking total military might here. The Chinese while very powerful, I don't believe would be able to go toe to toe in a conventional situation.

There would never be a "conventional situation" between the US. If the two countries went to war, we'd be looking at another MAD situation. China has ICBM capablites, enough to threaten all of North America (and Hawaii) and probably all of Europe, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan just for good measure. Not to mention once the nukes start flying India and Pakistan will launch on each other (and God knows who else), Israel would eradiate the entire Middle East (including some of North Africa too).

Not to mention all the contigency "nukings" that I'm unaware of.

The reason that China is not targeted for invasion, is the fact that China has something to actually lose by use of WMD, and the power structure in China is set up to maintain more than one person in a postion of prestige. North Korea, does not have that. They have four foot despot and a country that is simply failing to provide even food to its own people. Iraq and by extension Iraqis were Saddam's playthings and were there to serve him.

China is stable enough to reasonibly expect that they will not use their WMDs for anything other then to deter others from taking them on in a fully blown armed conflict.

[hoyablue]

There would never be a "conventional situation" between the US. If the two countries went to war, we'd be looking at another MAD situation. China has ICBM capablites, enough to threaten all of North America (and Hawaii) and probably all of Europe, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan just for good measure. Not to mention once the nukes start flying India and Pakistan will launch on each other (and God knows who else), Israel would eradiate the entire Middle East (including some of North Africa too).

Not to mention all the contigency "nukings" that I'm unaware of.

The reason that China is not targeted for invasion, is the fact that China has something to actually lose by use of WMD, and the power structure in China is set up to maintain more than one person in a postion of prestige. North Korea, does not have that. They have four foot despot and a country that is simply failing to provide even food to its own people. Iraq and by extension Iraqis were Saddam's playthings and were there to serve him.

China is stable enough to reasonibly expect that they will not use their WMDs for anything other then to deter others from taking them on in a fully blown armed conflict.

Hahahaha, please, China stable?

In my previous post I iterated that they had their first non violent Presidential succession. Worse, however, is the fact that the previous President (Ziang Jamin (sp?)) still controls 4 of the 9 members in the Politburo Standing Commitee and is also director of the military. This essentially means that if Juntao does not listen to the opinions of Jamin, Jamin could render control of the entire country in the blink of an eye.

Moreover, when you analyze it's business plan and the fact that China desires to be in the WTO, a "Catch-22" becomes evident. As a contingency plan, should the Chinese economy fail, the Government will make most of the industry privatized. However, if they do that, they lose control of the respective industries they privatized.

As you can see, China is taking a much slower pace in terms of democratization (they saw Russia and didn't to emulate it). What makes this process so slow are leaders who are unwilling to give up power and corruption from the Communist party. In fact, the Democratic party that started to push through in China is still in jail. Until China has democratized, don't expect to see any stability in terms of checks and balances. The former President could just as easily launch a nuclear bomb as the current one can.