578 members have voted

  1. 1. FireFox or Opera ?

    • Firefox
      354
    • Opera
      224


Recommended Posts

They could.. they could.. they could...

... but they don't. Opera manages to keep it's footprint down to a minimum so it can use the same rendering engine on different platforms, including phones.

The ability for it to be flexible like this is very important for this. It is NOT easy to implement.

You seem to think that just because you don't use it, it's not all that important, or impressive.

And the maturity of this thread is now at.......13% :sleep:

$20 USD if you're a student. Now that also means it's an unlimited cross-platform license too.

Ahh, but ease of use has everything to do with not only an Operating System but also a web browser. The aesthetics and ergonomic desings of a web browser are important as it will almost surely be used daily. But layout of the browsers is something that was discussed a lot of pages ago :sleep:

I don't think anyone's an idiot (bar one or two earlier posts in this thread). People should use the browser that makes them happy, but not rubbish every other browser on planet earth to try justify their own choice. I swear, some people are not trying to convince other people but only convince themselves.

585232736[/snapback]

1. As if you always act mature.

2. $40 for people who aren't students which is most people in this world. My point stands. "I swear, some people are not trying to convince other people but only convince themselves."

I'll leave it at that.

Battle of the flaming browser lovers in here...

I don't know the internals of Firefox or Opera, but I do know I like Firefox a lot better than IE. I also like the simplistic beauty of Firefox whereas Opera looks like too much is going on. One thing I am sure of is that everyone should stop using IE.

To each his own

Firefox is always the one that displays things the way I want them to.

Probably because you primarily code in Firefox, and only then check in other browsers... :no:

Oh, and also, Opera does not have extensive Javascript support (at least I haven't seen it) that is needed for some pages.

Opera has 100% support for JavaScript. The problem isn't that Opera can't do it. The problem is that sites send Opera outdated code from before Opera had proper DOM support, and that breaks Opera now that it does have it. If they sent Opera whatever they are sending to everyone else, it would work fine.

i did try opera, the interface is just too messy for me.
I also like the simplistic beauty of Firefox whereas Opera looks like too much is going on.

Did you people try Opera 8.0?

Opera is a nagware ass far as i am concerned.

It's adware, not nagware.

I don't see where I would ever use that, but any other browser could easily implement it. Adium does it for chat windows.

Uh, comparing a program's ability to transform pages it generates itself, and a program which does that to any web page is rather silly.

Apple could implement it in Safari. It's all a matter of what they want to do.

They could, but that is not to say that it's easy. Remember, this is about reformatting any page to any screen size!

MSR seems interesting, but it's not that new of an idea. SSR (which they mentioned) has done this for a while (or at least the better SSR browsers). They just took the idea and modified it a bit.

LOL. Opera invented SSR! :D

The SSR arconym came from Opera's name for its new small screen feature.

Opera's ERA (Extensible Rendering Architecture) is a step beyond SSR (Small Screen Rendering) and MSR (Medium Screen Rendering), and basically merges everything into one thing where you can use any size instead of being limited to only certain predefined sizes.

indeed. <yoda> begun the browser wars have. </yoda>

Opera and Mozilla are cooperating on several projects, actually, like an extension to HTML, and a new plug-in architecture... Seems to me that the "wars" are more about bickering between fanboys like myself and lots of others in this thread :laugh:

:yes: Firefox has won me over after using Opera for the better part of a year. Opera has an overly-busy GUI and does not offer the same security features that Firefox does in its present format. While Opera 8.0 has some useful add-ins, what a mess to look at.

Firefox is the clear winner. Simplicy on the face that is driven by finesse

Opera has an overly-busy GUI and does not offer the same security features that Firefox does in its present format.  While Opera 8.0 has some useful add-ins, what a mess to look at.

What "security features"?

How is Opera "a mess to look at"?

You are one of the people giving Firefox a bad name, with your badly formulated and vague attacks against Opera. It is like you haven't really tried Opera, but it's COOL to love Firefox and hate Opera now.

i sad everytime read fighting posts on neowin.

nature is watching us, tsunami is the prove, my country is mourning...

Offtopic...

I am truly sad for your area of the world. Ravaged now by a natural disaster... after years of conflict after conflict, poor economic conditions and instability in government (generally speaking) The reality is almost all of the people on Neowin are not poor and come from coutries where REAL poverty no longer exists. 80% of the people in the food kitchen lines (free meal lines) in New York City have VCRs at home. That's right, not only do the have homes, but the have VCRs.

Your perspective is unique and honest, just foreign to most everyone here. Maybe over time people will begin to have an understanding that the things that seem so important to them are not what is important in life.

i like firefox more probably becuase its free and i peronally like some of the extensions i can get for it.

although i have used opera before 7.somit and it was a good browser its just i prefered to use firefox over anything ive tryed so far.

but just becuase i like firefox doesnt mean that other people have to use it.. they are free to choose what they wish to run on their pcs/macs or whatever they use to browse.

Probably because you primarily code in Firefox, and only then check in other browsers... :no:

585235088[/snapback]

Well, I check in all browsers, and I have to put in hacks for IE and Opera. I admit that I primarily use Firefox, though. However, if I was to put together a web page in terms of code structure and CSS without ever looking at it at a browser, I'm sure it would look more like the intended in Firefox. I am not attacking Opera now, Opera is a fine browser, but there are still problems, like with IE.

P.S. your site doesn't validate as XHTML 1.0.  Might want to check it out ;)

585229584[/snapback]

I know, working on the backend atm, thanks for telling me anyway :)

I didn't say it was better, I said it was more advanced. There is definately a difference.

585229584[/snapback]

Well, true. However I think I value "better" more than "advanced".

It's just like Sykil said, it is my opinion whether or not something is bloat. It is how I feel about it. This is personal for everyone. How you think about it may not be how I think about it. That does not mean either of us is wrong.

You are one of the people giving Firefox a bad name, with your badly formulated and vague attacks against Opera. It is like you haven't really tried Opera, but it's COOL to love Firefox and hate Opera now.

Absolutely not true. I have used Opera for several months, and it is a nice browser. However, I just like Firefox better. I've stated my reasons why I find Firefox better than Opera. I have used both, so I know what I am talking about. Yes, I also have Opera 8 beta on my computer. It still has problems displaying certain websites (like my own).

There are things I like better about Opera, like the Wand (it's nice to have to click just one button and then it loads the form immediately). Firefox has something like the Wand, which is auto-complete. I like the Wand better, though.

Overall, both are good, but I prefer Firefox. Perhaps if Opera improves in the future, I will use it again. Perhaps.

It's just like Sykil said, it is my opinion whether or not something is bloat. It is how I feel about it. This is personal for everyone. How you think about it may not be how I think about it. That does not mean either of us is wrong.

Ok.. but when you have an opinion.. you should at least have SOMETHING to back it up. Anything. Not just how you feel. If you only FEEL that it is bloated and nothing else.. then please understand that your feeling is illogical. We do have illogical feelings, so no one should hold it against you. But at least admit it. If it's more than just a feeling, then why not explain why you think it's bloated? I gave a comparison that shows the real story, fact for fact. You told me you get a 'feeling'.
What do you think guys, i need prefromance comments, i know that opera costs money and ff is free but i need some comments on the prefromance ( ex: mem usage, speed ) ... many thanks in advance :)

584793263[/snapback]

Opera is faster going back/forward in history.

Otherwise, regarding loading speed, I dunno... Firefox seems a bit slower, but I think that's because Opera starts displaying the page faster without all loaded. On the other hand, exactly that setting is tweakable in Firefox so you can set it to 0 millisecs if you want in about:config. I think it's something like .25 secs by default since many feel it's annoying to have page reflows while trying to read a page.

I regard the ad as naging thing which is also GIF supported.

If i get a better browser for free then why should i settle for a nagware or register for it?

585237287[/snapback]

You don't have to. No one is saying you do.

I sure hope you aren't implying people that are paying for opera are "settling" for it. I paid because I want to support the Opera team for the awesome work they have done, and because I think Opera gives me the superior browsing experience.. something I can and have backed up with facts.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Why you need to take back control of your synced passwords and how to go about doing that by Paul Hill Credit: Pixabay Last month, when Google decided to introduce daily and weekly caps for Gemini, it reignited an anxiety of mine, that you can’t really depend on service providers to maintain features forever, and it got me looking into free software (as in freedom) in other areas too. One app I quickly came across was KeePassXC on desktop and KeePassDX on Android as an alternative to password manager lock-in within the Chrome or Firefox ecosystems. I personally like to switch around with browsers, and using either password manager is inconvenient, so something like KeePassXC was interesting to me. The main issue with it now is syncing; I was not sure how to do that. After a bit of research, I came across Syncthing, a tool I was vaguely familiar with but had never used because it seemed complicated. However, I was completely wrong, and honestly, I think everyone should use it if they use multiple devices. It essentially lets you share folders peer to peer across all of your devices, no cloud services that you don’t control necessary! And it was fairly simple to set up, if not a bit clunky. Since setting it up, I’ve also started using Syncthing to back up other apps too, so don’t think it’s limited to just saving password databases. You can use it for pretty much anything you use Dropbox or Google Drive for. Before continuing to talk about those apps a bit more, let’s walk back a bit and talk about browser sync. Ever since the late 2000s and early 2010s, really, since we have been using smartphones, browser sync has been a necessity of life. I don’t know about you, but I have hundreds of passwords saved. For the most part, they’re all unique, so I don’t remember them and rely on software to manage them for me. Until recently, I’ve relied on password managers in Chrome and Firefox, but what I always found annoying was that it can be hard to transfer them between browsers. Sure, on Windows it is simple enough, but on Linux, exporting bookmarks has been temperamental. It works OK nowadays, but not too long ago, Chrome required you to enable exporting passwords in chrome://flags. The situation is even worse on mobile; there is no exporting or importing of passwords of any kind. You literally have to do it on a desktop, which is incredibly annoying in our mobile-first world. Sync also lets us take out bookmarks, history, tabs, and autofill data easily. To enable sync, it’s just a matter of signing into the browser once, and it handles the rest. It’s nice and easy. Obviously, all this has some issues, including those I’ve outlined above about it being hard to transfer data between browsers, but also things such as account suspension, lost account passwords, and other lock-in mechanisms, such as passkeys, being tied to a specific browser. On a sidenote, I have just removed all of my passkeys because they can make it harder to move browsers. I think the biggest threat to your synced passwords, especially if doing this with Google, is having your account suspended. I don’t ever expect mine to be suspended, but you do hear horror stories on Reddit where people lose access to their Google accounts. Imagine if you have hundreds of passwords, then suddenly lose access to them because Google froze your account, what would you do? So yes, it can be nice to use these syncing services for their convenience, but they also have risks. You may have seen me going on about free software quite a bit in my editorials. It’s essentially a concept championed by the Free Software Foundation. It’s software under particular licenses that grant you four freedoms: run the program for any purpose (0), study and change the source code (1), redistribute copies to others (2), and the freedom to distribute modified copies to others (3). For example, if there is an app I use and one day it gets abandoned by the developer, I can keep running it or even clone the software and continue developing it. Look at the myriad of cool services Google has run over the years before killing them. You can’t take the source code for those because they are proprietary, for the most part. Both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so I get the freedoms listed above. In my use case where I’m syncing a database full of my passwords, I also get proper ownership over my data, there is no losing access to the database due to a frozen account, I can access the code of the tools I’m using, and I can get support from real people online if I run into issues, rather than having to consult a vague help page from an opaque company. With the KeePassXC password manager, you create a .kdbx file, which is what will be synced between devices. KeePassXC has cross-platform apps and also has browser extensions so that the browser can fetch passwords from the database once it is unlocked. Meanwhile, Syncthing is a peer-to-peer file sync tool where you can select folders to sync between your devices. Just pop files in the folders you choose, and then they will be available across your other devices whenever they come online. Syncthing is resilient as it works over both LAN and the internet and only ever sends content between your devices, never to a third-party server somewhere else. By combining these two pieces of software, you can essentially replicate the browser sync functionality. I have had a weird, conflicting issue where a new file is appearing, but it doesn’t seem to be impacting my main password database, which is updating between devices just fine. If you want to get a setup similar to what I have, you will need to go here to download KeePassXC for your computer. Once you have that, you will need to download your passwords from your web browser to a CSV file. In Chrome, you can type chrome://password-manager/settings into the URL bar, and you should see an option to download your passwords under Export Passwords. This will give you the CSV file you need for importing into KeePassXC. If you use a different browser, just use a search engine and type “browser-name export passwords” and muddle along. In KeePassXC, you’ll want to press Import File from the home screen, select the CSV file, and create a new database from it. On one of the screens of the wizard, there will be a Title field with a drop-down selected to none. Change this to Title and continue. You’ll select a name for the database, the encryption level (the defaults are fine), and then you will pick a password. I would choose four unrelated words that are easy for you to remember, as you’ll be typing them fairly often to access your passwords. When you have all your passwords in your new database, you will want to set up the browser extension so that your browser can fetch passwords from KeePassXC. Rather than explain how to do that here, refer to KeePassXC’s guide on how to set it up properly. Once you’ve got that set up, you want to install KeePassDX on Android. You can grab it on the F-Droid store and the Google Play Store. For iPhone users, there are other .kdbx-supporting apps, but I haven’t tried any of them, so have a look around and use what suits you. Once you have that done, you will want to install Syncthing on your computer and find a third-party app for your mobile device. On Android, I use an app called BasicSync; there are also options for iOS, but again, I’ve not tried these. Once you’ve got SyncThing, you’ll want to set it up and connect all of your devices together and share a folder between your gadgets. PCWorld has a good tutorial on setting up a synchronized file between your devices using SyncThing. Once you’ve set it up, congrats, you’ll never have to touch that stuff again except for adding or removing devices. I’ll be honest, I didn’t particularly like setting up Syncthing. It didn’t take me a massive amount of time, but I think I had to check online because I found it a bit confusing. That said, I’ve had it running for several weeks now and never need to touch the Syncthing settings, so that’s very nice. I also mentioned a conflicting file. I’m not sure why this is appearing, but the main .kdbx file seems to be updating and syncing just fine. What’s nice is that both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so they won’t just vanish one day; you can take the code and fork the project or use a range of alternative implementations that others have made. It’s also nice that it works over LAN, so even if your ISP is having problems, your passwords will still sync. One area where you will want to be a bit more careful with this setup is if you only have one device. I am OK because I have a computer and two phones, all synced up. If you just have one device, you will probably want to store a backup of your .kdbx file somewhere else. Obviously, you’ll also want to remember your password really well, too. If you get locked out, it's game over. Overall, if you want to take back control of your computing from big tech, taking control of your passwords is an important part of this. You don’t need to immediately clear out your browser’s password manager; try running KeePassXC and the password manager concurrently for a while to see if you run into any problems. If you do try this out, let us know some other creative ways to use Syncthing. I haven’t really come up with a solution about what to do with my bookmarks, for example.
    • If the price was a dollar, someone would complain "Why isn't it free?" If it was free, someone would complain they weren't being paid to play it.
    • That lens of history will burn if you hold it at the right angle... Warn users too late: Shame, Microsoft! That extremely minor update to an obscure Control Panel widget required 2 years of warning. Warn users too early: Shame, Microsoft! We've got better things to do. Pipeline and process be damned, we'll just always be disappointed, eh?
    • Microsoft Paint used to be my favorite Windows app as a kid, and it's still pretty good by Usama Jawad I have been using Windows since the early 2000s, when I was around 10 years old or so. I vaguely remember playing around with Windows 98 and Windows 2000, but that may have been on school PCs which had old operating systems installed. My main OS on the home PC, and the one I recall spending most time with, was Windows XP. At that time, I used the home PC to create Word and PowerPoint documents for school, but a lot of the time, I simply used it to play games. My dad would bring game discs which we would try and install on the PC, sometimes unsuccessfully, and sometimes, we would rely on flash games in the browser, like Bubble Trouble on Miniclip. However, the problem with the latter approach was the internet speed. On a good day, our dial-up internet would offer us speeds of 56 kbps, but on most days, it was closer to 33 kbps. This did not facilitate online gaming as I would often have to wait minutes for a game to load or "draw" on the screen, and trying to download pirated games wasn't simple either. I remember getting tired of waiting for online games to load and just downloading simulator games from the Big Fish Games website instead, only to be disappointed after finding out that I was just being given access to trial versions of the title, and I needed to fork out money to pay for the full version. All of this is to say that it wasn't very easy to find entertainment options on the home PC when I was a kid, due to a number of reasons, mostly outside of my control. This situation pushed me towards a rather unconventional ally: Microsoft Paint. Whenever the internet wasn't working as good as I expected, I would simply spin up Paint and draw complete rubbish on the canvas. Of course, that wasn't always the intention, but it usually happened when I messed up drawing a straight line or something, and then I would give up on that particular piece and simply draw a random collection of objects. Microsoft Paint was extremely accessible and easy to use. Even if you weren't an artist, you could quickly understand the tools at your disposal and how to leverage them on a canvas. The absolute breadth on offer ensured that each painting was truly unique, as you could utilize various combinations of tools like the pencil, paint, spray paint, and more to truly personalize your creation. Since I wasn't particularly good at drawing both on digital screen or a physical screen, I remember that my main style of art would be to insert a bunch of randomly intersecting lines and then fill them with random colors through the paint can. I have trying to replicate that art style in the latest version of Paint below, and as you can see, it's truly Pablo Picasso-esque. The human imagination truly knows no bounds Microsoft Paint kept me occupied for hours and was my best friend when video games on the home PC were inaccessible for one reason or the other. There was no academic or professional reason for which I would need to use Paint, but I still loved using it in my personal time, even if what I created wasn't worth being shown to anyone. It was simply fun. Fast-forward to today, and the situation is mostly the same. Now that I am almost 29 years old, and I still have no reason to use Microsoft Paint in a professional capacity. In fact, I don't even use it in a personal capacity, except to dabble with it from time to time, just to see if core functionalities are still intact. And I'm happy to say that I think Microsoft Paint still offers the same accessibility and inviting experience that it did to me a couple of decades ago, even though its UX has been refreshed and it's been integrated with Copilot features. Interestingly, things could have been a lot different, had Microsoft had its way. Microsoft Paint was marked for deprecation with the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update in 2017, and even began displaying a product retirement alert, urging customers to shift to Paint 3D instead. Fortunately, after consumer backlash, Microsoft reversed course on this decision, and Paint continues to be a native app inside Windows installations that can also be updated quite frequently through the Microsoft Store. Instead, Paint 3D ended up on the chopping block, which is for the better, I think. I have intermittently played around with Microsoft's refreshed Paint experience in the past few years, and I do think it has received worthwhile upgrades. the UI and the UX has been modernized while retaining core functionality, and the app is still fairly easy to use. It doesn't meet any of my use-cases, but I've never really had any use-cases ever, as described previously. Of course, the elephant in the room is the Copilot integration. Personally, I believe that this is one place where Copilot does make sense, environmental concerns aside. I know that a lot of creatives use AI to generate images, and while some may be using professional alternatives, Paint still offers a decent casual experience, with the power of Copilot. Of course, you do need to have a valid Microsoft 365 Copilot license and available credits to use it, but even if you don't, you still get the big Copilot button in the toolbar, unfortunately. All in all, I am glad that Microsoft Paint continues to be a native feature in Windows 11, and a piece of software that has evolved to meet modern needs without cutting off its own roots. It's just an iconic piece of Windows history that was an essential part of my childhood, and while I don't use it anymore, I'm just glad it is still there.
    • 2TB WD_Black SN7100 PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD drops to its lowest price in over three months by Fiza Ali Amazon is currently offering the 2TB WD_Black SN7100 internal solid-state drive at its lowest price in over three months, so you may want to check it out, if you have been considering a storage upgrade, before the deal dries up (purchase link is toward the end of the article). Featuring a PCIe Gen 4.0 interface and M.2 2280 form factor, the SN7100 promises to deliver sequential read speeds of up to 7,250MB/s and sequential write speeds reaching 6,900MB/s, offering as much as a 35% improvement in performance compared with the previous generation. It also achieves random read speeds of 1,000,000 IOPS and random write speeds of 1,400,000 IOPS. The drive uses Western Digital’s TLC 3D NAND technology for reliable performance and is further supported by a five-year limited warranty. It also offers strong endurance, rated at up to 1,200TBW, making it suitable for demanding workloads such as gaming, content creation, and high-speed recording. Moreover, its DRAM-less architecture claims to improve power efficiency (the SSD relies on system memory for caching via HMB), while the WD_Black Dashboard software enables users to monitor drive health, install firmware updates, and activate Game Mode for potentially better performance. Finally, it operates within an operating temperature range of 0°C to 85°C, and can withstand storage temperatures from -40°C to 85°C. 2TB WD_Black SN7100 PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD: $242.96 (Amazon US) Check this deal out if you want a 4TB option. Good to know This Amazon deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      Supreme Spray LV earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Genuinetonerink- Dubai earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Genuinetonerink- Dubai earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      hhgygy earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      AMV earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      514
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      163
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      87
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      74
    5. 5
      Michael Scrip
      73
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!