FireFox or Opera ?

[Rix]

Since you requested:

Feature 3: Wand. Wand is nothing more than a password manager. Especially it mentions one-click signing in, which happens to be very possible with IE.

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Operas Wand can store Multiple Usernames And Passwords for the same site/page. AFAIK ie can only store one.

Edit:\\ ^^Guess you beat me to it lol

[d_ralphie]

Feature 1: Pop-up blocking. Even though Opera.com claims it doesn't exist in IE, it does.

where does opera claim that it doesn't exist in msie?

[megamanXplosion]

anyway, ipb are liars too?

Yes. Near the beginning of the project they were claiming that they would always be free and I always knew that there would be a possibility of them going paid (and that didn't bother me.) It is how they went about the free->paid transition which ticked me off. They didn't warn anyone that their license would be changing, they released 2.0 and immediately switched to the paid license which forced many of their current users to either pay for an upgrade or use a different message board system (which can be quite a pain to convert.) Many of my friends were convinced to switch to IPB from their current software shortly before the license changed, they explained all of the benefits the software would provide to their users (they lost some of their members just because they changed software, a lot of people hate change) and then immediately had to convert back because they couldn't offer the benefits that they promised and they lost even more members, or they would have to pay for the software in order to keep their members. The worst thing about it all is that I had convinced them to switch and it was because of my support of their software that my friends lost a lot of members and profit, and that's enough reason for me to absolutely hate the company (I don't hate them, I'm just saying that there's enough reason for me to hate them.) I'm sure that my webmaster friends wouldn't mind paying for the software if they would've known that it would change, it was the whole "rat trapping" which ticked us all off. Needless to say, I do not promote their software anymore. But, this all off-topic :p

Feature 1: Pop-up blocking. Even though Opera.com claims it doesn't exist in IE, it does.

They didn't claim that it didn't exist in Internet Explorer, but since you seem hell-bent on proving that they are liars, please explain how Internet Explorer's popup blocker is better than Operas. As far as I know, Opera offers the "quick preferences" menu to easily toggle it on and off while Internet Explorer requires you to jump through several hoops to turn it on or off and that can be a pain for those sites which require popups to work. And only half of the Internet Explorer users have popup blocking at this point in time because Microsoft cut them off from upgrades. If you think you can explain how Internet Explorer's popup blocker is better than Opera's then please be my guest.

Feature 2: Built in search engines: Just open IE and hit ctrl-e, click customize. You'll see that IE comes with more built in search engines than Opera. 20 different ways to search things under different categories.

Being integrated and being usable are two different ballgames. In Opera you can use 10 search engines directly from a toolbar, side panel, or by typing in nicknames in the address bar, that's integrated. Internet Explorer's are usable which means you have to jump through hoops to use a different search engine than the one currently defined, that's usable. Let's also not forgot "find as you type" searching which Internet Explorer doesn't have (if it does then it's hidden by some obscure shortcut.) Opera did not lie, searching is heavily integrated throughout the Opera interface while Internet Explorer's search capabilities resemble a hack-job. They did not lie about this. This is a comparison and Opera compared theirs to Internet Explorer and they are completely right about which is better when it comes to searching.

Feature 3: Wand. Wand is nothing more than a password manager. Especially it mentions one-click signing in, which happens to be very possible with IE.

The wand is nothing more than a password manager? Have you ever used the wand? It stores your address, phone numbers, passwords, usernames, city, country, state, email, homepage, some special fields which can be anything you want, etc. I don't see how you could possibly say that Opera and IE are close in this regard, Opera easily takes the Gold. They are also completely right about which is better when it comes to filling in forms.

You keep saying that but don't bring any proof, even though I particularly asked for it. All I got was a removed comparison chart, which by the way wasn't removed by Opera users, but by Mozilla staff.

It was taken down by the Mozilla staff because they couldn't even pretend like they were not lying! Why is it that the Mozilla Foundation will admit that they're liars but you won't admit that they're liars?

[Bag]

I?m to lazy to read back, but from my own experience, firefox is the best by a long way.

[megamanXplosion]

where does opera claim that it doesn't exist in msie?

They don't, which is the ironic part of this debate.

[groberts]

I think they have basically the same features, so why pay

[d_ralphie]

I’m to lazy to read back, but from my own experience, firefox is the best by a long way.

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wow, thanks for the incredibly useful and valuable contribution to the discussion...

[d_ralphie]

I think they have basically the same features, so why pay

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no they don't. opera's smaller, more feature packed, with no extension hell just to get basic usability features like gestures, proper mdi, notes, and so on.

why do you think people can't be bothered to use linux? because it's a pain to set up. mac os, on the other hand, works fine, because it's ready to be used right away, and there's no choosing packages and choosing between twenty different text editors and window managers, etc.

it's the convenience. the polish.

[vcv]

edit: some repeats, sorry. I had the thread open from earlier and replied to that. D'oh.

You don't see Opera claiming on their page 'OCCASIONALLY THE FASTEST BROWSER'. They claim they have the fastest browser period. Now, I've tested both Firefox and Opera and Firefox renders pages consistently faster (used stopwatch to time page rendering) for me. This of course means that Opera is lying on their page. They are promoting their product with lies and FUD, one might say. No, it's just a nice marketing phrase. Exactly what the alleged Mozilla Spokesperson was doing, exactly what any Opera exec would say if he/she had the chance. That's how it works. Now the difference is that you don't see Firefox fans go around with 'KILL OPERA' sigs and screaming rape and injustice..

They didn't say their browser was the fastest at RENDERING PAGES ;) It's the fastest because of the tightly integrated features that save you time and tight code. I think this is a claim that holds some water, unlike Opera rendering faster than Firefox (though it does for me on all 5 of my computers).

Edit: Couple minutes of browsing on Opera's site and I came up with more blatant lies, this time about IE:

Actually, if you had read the page, you'd see that they list those as features that SET THEM APART them IE. They no where say that IE does not have any of these features. Therefore, none of those are lies.

http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=78664

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.ph...page=15&start=0

That guy is definately a douchebag, and the other members told him not to troll! You just made yourself look bad, not opera users.

Too bad that he doesn't even get flamed by the inferior Firefox users, they actually give him good arguments back. And behold, most of them are either using or have used Opera. So much for that theory.

And the Opera users told him not to troll. So both sides have mature users, that's all you proved.

hmmm opera is a very good browser,but this interface is bloated somehow, don't feel comfortable with it,id rather use firefox for it's simplicity and speed.

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Read the thread. This is fixed in the 8.0 beta.

an extension called session saver would be perfect for what you want.

see, it's better that it doesn't come with ff by default. if they decided to include loads of extensions they thought people may use as part of the browser, then the download and install will become big and long. also, not everyone wants all the features, so by having them as an extension you can allow people to have a clean, simple browser, or one customised to your own needs.

opera, on the other hand, forces you to download loads of crap against your will.

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Ah.. yes.. how DARE Opera FORCE you to download 1megabyte less of data for it's browser than firefox AND offer more features!! The nerve!

I'm starting to think that you're the one missing the points here. Just read the 6 last pages or so. One of the main arguments has been that Firefox fans are more ignorant about other browsers (Opera) because Opera costs money.

Edit: Blah, missed the second half of the post.

Yet huge majority of users on Mozillazine has used or is using Opera. I don't see how you can keep claiming that the theory about 'Firefox user not trying Opera because it costs money' is true when the only thing backing it up is your words.

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That's one site, MozillaZine. People who go there are usually more technically inclined. The reason I agree with the firefox fans being less informed about Opera then the other way around, is I see it CONSTANTLY (even in this very thread, and even a few posts up). Users using firefox saying the same uninformed statements about Opera over and over.

"Opera is bloated"

"The interface is bloated"

"Opera is not as secure as firefox"

"Opera is not customizable as easy as firefox"

"Opera is not free"

Just look at some of the comments from FF users in the past couple of pages even.

"Never heard of Opera but FF is better"

"they have the same features so use the free one"

"opera is bloated i use ff"

This is just at neowin, in this thread.

Edited January 13, 2005 by vcv

[Coolme]

Firefox, hands down. If I wanted a mail manager or an IRC program, I'd get one myself. (ex. mIRC) As for the mouse guestures and other 'features', you can download extensions. And FF offers an edge over Opera in terms of functionality, cause you can choose what extensions you want to install and in opera, it comes 'as is'.

Firefox comes with low functioanlity, not because to save space, but to allow you to decide if you want a stable, secure browser that does it's job well, or a browser that has a lot of functionality that's built a on a stable, secure foundation.

One last thing... Opera doesn't have stumble.... ;)

[Toxicfume Veteran]

Firefox comes with low functioanlity, not because to save space, but to allow you to decide if you want a stable, secure browser that does it's job well, or a browser that has a lot of functionality that's built a on a stable, secure foundation.

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Ofcourse, it's definitely not to save space, because Opera coems with all that is bundled in a smaller size than firefox. It's definitely secure, stable and definitely a lot faster from personal experience.

[Chode]

FireFox (With enough extensions to give it the functionality of Opera, give or take) + Mirc + Outlook Express = 32 Megabytes (If I had of compared Mozilla's own mail client, I'm sure this figure would be larger).

Opera (including voice libraries, IRC client, and Mail Client) = 12 Megabytes.

My math is not the best, but everyone knows that 32 > 12, ~ Opera is not bloated, as for Firefox and other software to match it's functionality require a larger disk space.

In my opinion, this thread has had it's run. Half of the posters haven't even read, or even remember, the original post. I think the question has been answered/buried already.

[+unabatedshagie Subscriber¹]

Feature 1: Pop-up blocking. Even though Opera.com claims it doesn't exist in IE, it does.

Did anyone stop to think that that page may have been made up before Sp2 was released?

The wand is nothing more than a password manager? Have you ever used the wand? It stores your address, phone numbers, passwords, usernames, city, country, state, email, homepage, some special fields which can be anything you want, etc. I don't see how you could possibly say that Opera and IE are close in this regard, Opera easily takes the Gold. They are also completely right about which is better when it comes to filling in forms.

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Technically all the wand stores is multiple username and passwords, the city, state, address part are not part of the wand.

[worbd]

Opera (including voice libraries, IRC client, and Mail Client) = 12 Megabytes.

I'm not sure where you are getting this number from. Opera is about 3.5 MB, the voice libs about 2. That makes it 5.5 MB, not 12. Ok, I'll say 6, since Opera is probably a bit over 3.5 MB, and the voice libs maybe a bit over 2 MB.

So Opera with voice, chat, mail, newsfeeds, and everything else is 6 MB.

[Chode]

My earlier maths also removed my notes, passwords, and my Winamp mod...

but ATM:

[Rapier]

My Opera Folder's size is 6.8 MB (7.7 on Disk)

I Alwayz keep the Cache off though. Could it be that mayb u have Many Skins chode or other things ?

[markwolfe Veteran]

why do you think people can't be bothered to use linux? because it's a pain to set up. mac os, on the other hand, works fine, because it's ready to be used right away, and there's no choosing packages and choosing between twenty different text editors and window managers, etc.

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Bah.

You are generalizing. There are Linux flavors that do exactly what you state (Xandros, Linspire, Lycoris, Linare...) Just a 1-CD install with a pre-selected suite of apps.

People who install SUSE/Fedora/Slack/etc. are those who choose that route specifically for the options. More than anything else, Linux is about the freedom to put in as much, or as little as you want.

[worbd]

My earlier maths also removed my notes, passwords, and my Winamp mod...

I don't see the point in comparing the installed size. The download size is what matters.

But if you really insist on finding the size of the installed Opera, you should only measure the size of a clean installation, as otherwise, its size will depend on who you as. Just excluding the cache isn't enough either. You have to remember plugins, mail, the download folder, the uninstallation information (it takes backups of everything it replaces during installation), and so on. There's lots of user created info that starts piling up once you start using Opera.

[Vice]

I look at it like this... they do the same thing so why pay for what's free.

If I wanted to use Opera so bad without paying for it I could just warez it. Price is not the issue for me, its more that firefox is there and does everything I need it to do. so why pay for opera / waste time warezing it.

[worbd]

I look at it like this... they do the same thing so why pay for what's free.

They do not do the same thing. This has been claimed several times in this thread, and has been debunked every single time. You really should read the thread before posting something that's been addressed already.

If I wanted to use Opera so bad without paying for it I could just warez it. Price is not the issue for me, its more that firefox is there and does everything I need it to do. so why pay for opera / waste time warezing it.

I am not convinced that you are aware of all the things Opera can do that Firefox can't (such as changing a theme without restarting), but I simply cannot be bothered to explain this to yet another badly informed Firefox user... Sigh. :no:

[Pallab]

Well Opera loads pages here faster than Opera

And offcourse once silpstream is included..dat debate would be ended forever.

[Jayzee]

Who the heck cares what webbrowser you want to use?

Just use whatever you like, it's not like you don't have enough free space on your HDD.... :alien:

[Nebuchadnezzar]

http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/0...39177270,00.htm

Hear that you Firefox gloaters! :laugh:

[red.]

so why pay for opera / waste time warezing it.

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as opposed to the time it takes to download various extensions for firefox?

[Pallab]

I think this thread itself has many good eg of ignorant ff users,we don't really need to look elsewhere.