FireFox or Opera ?

[Michael_C]

gmail works fine with opera (v7.6 onwards) aslong as u identify opera as opera and not as ie or mozilla.

And this thing has been discussed in this thread before.

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Why do they identify it as IE by default anyway? That defeats the whole purpose of user-agent strings. :no:

[vcv]

Why do they identify it as IE by default anyway? That defeats the whole purpose of user-agent strings. :no:

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Because of people that complain "OPERA SUCKS WHY DOESNT MY SITE WORK IN IT", when identifying as IE fixes it.

[d_ralphie]

because sites have been known to block anything that isn't internet explorer or netscape.

[lav-chan]

It's because people still use browser-detection scripts and they don't know how to write them themselves so they just copy-and-paste them from tutorial pages that were written in 1997 when Opera 7 wasn't out yet and Opera 6 was a piece of garbage. So all these browser-detection scripts on all these pages are like 'OH LOOK ITS OPERA IT MUST STILL SUCK' and they deny Opera the chance to use the Web site properly, even though it's fully able to now because they re-write the whole thing.

[Night.Hawk]

Some of you people should read http://spreadopera.auriance.com/browser_comparison.php to find out what each browser has. Yes, it is an Opera user's site, but it covers most of the common stuff. In fact there are a few things it lists that Opera doesn't have, though only a few.

Even if it is biased, it's still a good resource to see what each latest version [Firefox, Opera, Internet Explorer, and Mozilla] has out of the box without extensions, addons, etc. This does not include support for secific sites as that is usually not a browsers problem but the maker of the sites.

You'll notice that if you have Gmail one of the things you can check to suggest is more support for Opera which shows that Google knows it's their problem and not Opera's.

I'll repeat again that this is a comparison that does not including extensions, addons, etc.

[blowMeNeo]

Here's some tips for some of the posters in the last 2 pages...

READ THE THREAD BEFORE POSTING, SOME OF YOUR POINTS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSES AND REFUTED, OR AT LEAST DISCUSSED

- Opera IS free

- Opera IS secure

- Opera IS NOT bloated

- Opera IS fast.  It's faster than FF for some (yes, even 1.0+), and not for others.

- "Why would you pay when there is a free alternative?" is a stupid question.

- GMail DOES work in Opera

I guarantee you I can not browse as fast in FF as I can in Opera.  I have used both since 0.3 and 3.6 respectively.  Firefox may render pages just as fast (and faster for some people), and it may have extensions, but it can not match the integration, shortcuts and small considerations of Opera.

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It is free if you don't mind the ads that take up a fourth of the page. Opera IS bloated, the only browser with more bloat is IE. If you use Firefox "as is" Opera is faster, but once Firefox is tweaked, its not. Why pay if you can get it free is not a stupid question, it's common sense. Bottom line, Opera will always be #3 until it is completely free without the ads.

[blowMeNeo]

Some of you people should read http://spreadopera.auriance.com/browser_comparison.php to find out what each browser has. Yes, it is an Opera user's site, but it covers most of the common stuff. In fact there are a few things it lists that Opera doesn't have, though only a few.

Even if it is biased, it's still a good resource to see what each latest version [Firefox, Opera, Internet Explorer, and Mozilla] has out of the box without extensions, addons, etc. This does not include support for secific sites as that is usually not a browsers problem but the maker of the sites.

You'll notice that if you have Gmail one of the things you can check to suggest is more support for Opera which shows that Google knows it's their problem and not Opera's.

I'll repeat again that this is a comparison that does not including extensions, addons, etc.

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All I get from that is that Opera is bloated, which it is. The download is 13.1 with Java (don't kid yourself, you need Java with Opera). Firefox 1.0 download is 4.7.

[Night.Hawk]

It is free if you don't mind the ads that take up a fourth of the page.  Opera IS bloated, the only browser with more bloat is IE.  If you use Firefox "as is" Opera is faster, but once Firefox is tweaked, its not.  Why pay if you can get it free is not a stupid question, it's common sense.  Bottom line, Opera will always be #3 until it is completely free without the ads.

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And #2 and 1 are?

Personally, I think we should give this fight up. Too what purpose does this fight add, but to make the other side mad? I've said it once I'll say it again, "As long as they don't use IE, then you should be happy they use anything at all."

Besides, neither is truely faster, it's all an illusion. For instance, do you have it set to show images as they load, or to wait until done? How long do you have it wait before it shows the page? Do you have an adblock on when testing?

Anyone of those things could slow it down or speed it up. Opera, or Firefox. And I still say there's no point to argue. I think I'll make a thread about "Vanilla and Chocolate: Which is better?" even though I know it's really only a matter of opinion.

[Night.Hawk]

All I get from that is that Opera is bloated, which it is.  The download is 13.1 with Java (don't kid yourself, you need Java with Opera).  Firefox 1.0 download is 4.7.

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You kid yourself. That [Firefox] download size does not include the seperate download for Java.

Edit: Btw, this comes from a person who uses Firefox. I also use Opera. Both on a regular basis and usually at the same time.

[blowMeNeo]

1 is IE, 2 is Firefox. Opera is 4th. Don't believe me? Go here:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

[Night.Hawk]

1 is IE, 2 is Firefox.  Opera is 4th.  Don't believe me?  Go here:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

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I see :). Thanks. I was just wondering if that was usage stats, or opinion, overall value or what.

Edit: And the ads in Opera do get on my nerves, but I did buy it anyway just to try it out without them. Strange I know, but without the ads it's a lot cooler. I still haven't decided which I like best.

[lav-chan]

It is free if you don't mind the ads that take up a fourth of the page.

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No, it's free even if you DO mind the ads.

'OK here guys i'm going to give you a 42-inch Sony television for no charge. Totally free!'

'OH GOD IT'S A SONY I HATE SONYS SO IT'S NOT FREE AT ALL YOU LIED TO ME >=('

Opera IS bloated, the only browser with more bloat is IE.

That makes absolutely zero sense -- the second part, at least. Firetruck has TONS more features than Internet Explorer, so how can Opera possibly be more bloated than Internet Explorer if Firetruck isn't? Bloat is a condition that results from too many features being added to a program. Firefox has more features than Internet Explorer, so if Opera is more bloated than IE is, Firefox, by definition, has to be also.

Maybe you don't know what bloated means.

Why pay if you can get it free is not a stupid question, it's common sense.

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It's a stupid question if that's the only variable you put into the equation. If you say 'why pay for a browser when this one over here is just as good or better and it's free', then you're OK. But just saying I LIKE THIS BROWSER BECAUSE IT'S FREE is retarded, because all you're saying is that you're using the browser not because it's actually better than another one but because you're too cheap and stubborn to use a commercial one.

Also, you do not need Java with Opera if you don't need it with Firetruck. The only possible use i can see for Java is playing Yahoo! games, and i don't do that, so i've never got the Java version. Maybe i'm just too busy kidding myself to see that i need it.

[imtoomuch]

No, it's free even if you DO mind the ads.

'OK here guys i'm going to give you a 42-inch Sony television for no charge. Totally free!'

'OH GOD IT'S A SONY I HATE SONYS SO IT'S NOT FREE AT ALL YOU LIED TO ME >=('

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That's a horrible analogy. Ads aren't the same as brand name.

Also, I don't know if you're dumb, retarded, or both, but it's Firefox. I know you think it's cool or funny, but it just makes you look stupid. Even a kindergartener can master that word.

[blowMeNeo]

No, it's free even if you DO mind the ads.

'OK here guys i'm going to give you a 42-inch Sony television for no charge. Totally free!'

'OH GOD IT'S A SONY I HATE SONYS SO IT'S NOT FREE AT ALL YOU LIED TO ME >=('

That makes absolutely zero sense -- the second part, at least. Firetruck has TONS more features than Internet Explorer, so how can Opera possibly be more bloated than Internet Explorer if Firetruck isn't? Bloat is a condition that results from too many features being added to a program. Firefox has more features than Internet Explorer, so if Opera is more bloated than IE is, Firefox, by definition, has to be also.

Maybe you don't know what bloated means.

It's a stupid question if that's the only variable you put into the equation. If you say 'why pay for a browser when this one over here is just as good or better and it's free', then you're OK. But just saying I LIKE THIS BROWSER BECAUSE IT'S FREE is retarded, because all you're saying is that you're using the browser not because it's actually better than another one but because you're too cheap and stubborn to use a commercial one.

Also, you do not need Java with Opera if you don't need it with Firetruck. The only possible use i can see for Java is playing Yahoo! games, and i don't do that, so i've never got the Java version. Maybe i'm just too busy kidding myself to see that i need it.

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You pick the features you want and download them. Firefox is pretty much stripped when you download it. I fix computers for a living. I have a 4 year degree to be able to fix computers. How many degrees do you have? ZERO, you are still in high school. Get a clue kid.

[Rix]

All I get from that is that Opera is bloated, which it is.  The download is 13.1 with Java (don't kid yourself, you need Java with Opera).  Firefox 1.0 download is 4.7.

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Erm, if you already have suns java installed it will work with opera, just like it dose with IE.

[vcv]

It is free if you don't mind the ads that take up a fourth of the page.  Opera IS bloated, the only browser with more bloat is IE.  If you use Firefox "as is" Opera is faster, but once Firefox is tweaked, its not.  Why pay if you can get it free is not a stupid question, it's common sense.  Bottom line, Opera will always be #3 until it is completely free without the ads.

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A fourth of the page? What do you run, 640x480?

Opera is NOT bloated. This has been debunked in this very thread. If you want me to show you again, I'll be more than happy to provide the link which does a side-by-side comparison with firefox of every aspect of "bloat".

Opera will always be #3/4 in MARKET SHARE. Market share has little relevance to software quality.

Why pay when you can get a competitor for free? If you can't figure this out, you are a fool. Not everyone SHOULD pay because not everyone will like Opera. But there ARE reasons to pay.

All I get from that is that Opera is bloated, which it is.  The download is 13.1 with Java (don't kid yourself, you need Java with Opera).  Firefox 1.0 download is 4.7.

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Again, no it is not. Firefox comes without Java, but autodetects the IE Java and uses that if possible. IF not, it has to download it (like it did on this machine). Don't blame Opera for Java being an extra 10mb.

You pick the features you want and download them.  Firefox is pretty much stripped when you download it.  I fix computers for a living.  I have a 4 year degree to be able to fix computers.  How many degrees do you have?  ZERO, you are still in high school.  Get a clue kid.

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There are a lot of features in Opera I use that are NOT available for Firefox via extensions. There are some that aren't even possible with extensions. On the other hand, there are extensions for Firefox that do what Opera can't. But these are usually more advanced ones that most people don't need or want.

You have a degree, and you fix computers. That's great. That is not remotely relevant to this conversation. I am a professional Software Engineer.. wouldn't that make me more 'qualified' than you technically speaking? But you know what? IT doesn't matter either way!

[d_ralphie]

It is free if you don't mind the ads that take up a fourth of the page.  Opera IS bloated, the only browser with more bloat is IE.

oh great, another newbie firefox fanboii troll who just has to discuss something that's been discussed several times in this thread already.

the ads do not take up a fourth of the page, for gods sake. stop lying (see my signature). you are the reason more and more people are beginning to hate firefox. the mindless fanboii drones who spread lies about other products.

opera is not bloated. it's a smaller download than firefox. and no, java does not count, because firefox is dependent on the exact same sun java as opera is. opera just optionally bundles it as a convenience. opera itself is still smaller.

If you use Firefox "as is" Opera is faster, but once Firefox is tweaked, its not.

you can tweak opera too, you know.

Why pay if you can get it free is not a stupid question, it's common sense.

yeah. why pay for PHOTOSHOP when you can get THE GIMP for free?! BWAHAHAHAHA...

Bottom line, Opera will always be #3 until it is completely free without the ads.

millions of dogs can't be wrong: sniffing your buddy's anus is a nice way to do male bonding!

1 is IE, 2 is Firefox.  Opera is 4th.  Don't believe me?  Go here:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

first of all, those stats are far from representative of the whole web. second of all, quality does not depend on market share. see my above comment about anus sniffing.

[d_ralphie]

Personally, I think we should give this fight up. Too what purpose does this fight add, but to make the other side mad? I've said it once I'll say it again, "As long as they don't use IE, then you should be happy they use anything at all."

see my signature.

the reason this 'fight' is on at all, is that firefox fanboy trolls are spreading lies about opera. if they could just stick to explaining why they like firefox instead of lying about opera, this thread would probably have been a lot shorter.

[Pallab]

exactly.

You are entitled to have your own choice.But what ****es me off if people says things like opera sucks or makes false allegations.

[Elliott]

Well you guys using the "Kill Firefox" image aren't much better than the Opera flamers. At least my signature doesn't say "Obliterate Opera." Firefox and Opera are both nice browsers. They both have their pros and cons. Some Opera users seem to have false beliefs about Firefox and some Firefox users have false beliefs about Opera. Give it a rest guys.

I'll keep on preferring Firefox for its speed and lean feel. That's not going to change any time soon unless Opera drops most of what it has inside of it. Opera users will keep on preferring Opera until Firefox includes everything and the kitchen sink in it. That's probably not going to change anytime soon either.

[vcv]

Well you guys using the "Kill Firefox" image aren't much better than the Opera flamers. At least my signature doesn't say "Obliterate Opera." Firefox and Opera are both nice browsers. They both have their pros and cons. Some Opera users seem to have false beliefs about Firefox and some Firefox users have false beliefs about Opera. Give it a rest guys.

I'll keep on preferring Firefox for its speed and lean feel. That's not going to change any time soon unless Opera drops most of what it has inside of it. Opera users will keep on preferring Opera until Firefox includes everything and the kitchen sink in it. That's probably not going to change anytime soon either.

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Very subtle there kiddo.

[futb0l]

Well you guys using the "Kill Firefox" image aren't much better than the Opera flamers. At least my signature doesn't say "Obliterate Opera." Firefox and Opera are both nice browsers. They both have their pros and cons. Some Opera users seem to have false beliefs about Firefox and some Firefox users have false beliefs about Opera. Give it a rest guys.

I'll keep on preferring Firefox for its speed and lean feel. That's not going to change any time soon unless Opera drops most of what it has inside of it. Opera users will keep on preferring Opera until Firefox includes everything and the kitchen sink in it. That's probably not going to change anytime soon either.

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I agree. I think they should put banners supporting Opera rather than "Kill Firefox".

[Chode]

Read my sig.

See any references to either Firefox, Opera, ie, or the rest of the web browsing universe of software?

I thought not.

[Michael_C]

"As long as they don't use IE, then you should be happy they use anything at all."

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I agree with you there from a web designers perspective. :yes:

see my signature.

the reason this 'fight' is on at all, is that firefox fanboy trolls are spreading lies about opera. if they could just stick to explaining why they like firefox instead of lying about opera, this thread would probably have been a lot shorter.

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Talk about pot calling the kettle black, try changing your sig and people might start to take you seriously.

I'll keep on preferring Firefox for its speed and lean feel. That's not going to change any time soon unless Opera drops most of what it has inside of it. Opera users will keep on preferring Opera until Firefox includes everything and the kitchen sink in it. That's probably not going to change anytime soon either.

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This guy is making sense. :yes:

[x-byte]

I'll keep on preferring Firefox for its speed and lean feel. That's not going to change any time soon unless Opera drops most of what it has inside of it. Opera users will keep on preferring Opera until Firefox includes everything and the kitchen sink in it. That's probably not going to change anytime soon either.

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You don't need to use all the features a program have you know :rolleyes: Opera doesn't push you to use them. You use them IF you need them.

I use almost every feature in Opera myself. M2, IRC and browsing (of course). The one I seldom use because I don't need it is RSS. (What?!? you can choose not to use it?!? no way! )

It's funny that many Firefox users actually get extensions to make Firefox behave simular to Opera...