578 members have voted

  1. 1. FireFox or Opera ?

    • Firefox
      354
    • Opera
      224


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As you seen in this thread, there are reports on some people's systems that Firefox truly is leaner and faster. On my PowerBook, Firefox with two tabs takes up 38.82MB of RAM. Opera, 48.73MB of RAM.

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For me opera with 5 tabs open uses half of the ram that your firefox uses with 2.

http://www.shadow-illusions.co.uk/operaram.jpg

Now, the same 5 tabs in firefox

http://www.shadow-illusions.co.uk/firefoxram.jpg

Having only 384MB ram, that makes me quite a bit more comfortable using opera.

Only extension I sometimes use is Web Developer because it helps me to debug sites. Opera, internally, doesn't have the features the Web Developer toolbar gives to Firefox. I did hear Opera had an plug-in, but that would defeat the purpose of Opera, wouldn't it?

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Urm, why would it? Just because Opera comes with a lot of features, dosent mean it shouldnt have more.

I think in jadedEdge's eyes, Opera is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.

I just opened the same 2 times in Opera and FF. Opera = 20mb, FF = 25mb.

And again, I fail to see how preferences is complicated. I like it better than how FF does it with extensions. With extensions I have to manually open options for each one. It gets tedious.

R1ck13, the Mac ports of both Opera and Firefox aren't the best, but my comparison does show that Firefox ports better to other OS's than Opera.

Where did I say Opera should include the Web Developer toolbar? I said that using a plugin kinda defeats the purpose of Opera's little Swiss army knife design. Also, my statement shows that you don't need 10 billion Extensions in Firefox to have an awesome browser. I only use 1, and that's sometimes. Firefox by itself is a quality browser.

R1ck13, the Mac ports of both Opera and Firefox aren't the best, but my comparison does show that Firefox ports better to other OS's than Opera.

Where did I say Opera should include the Web Developer toolbar? I said that using a plugin kinda defeats the purpose of Opera's little Swiss army knife design. Also, my statement shows that you don't need 10 billion Extensions in Firefox to have an awesome browser. I only use 1, and that's sometimes. Firefox by itself is a quality browser.

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Of course firefox is a quality browser, and completely usable by itself. But not for most Opera users.

To match my experience with Opera, I need 20+ extensions, and even then it falls short.

It does not provide a rewind/fast forward feature which always saves me time.

It does not provide an indication of what zoom % the page is at.

It does not provide a Quick Preferences menu.

It does not provide the ability to add an "Enable proxy" checkbox or "Identify as" dropdown to any toolbar.

It does not provide the option to cache GDI objects for instant page reloading. (If Opera got rid of this, mem usage would go way down. But it is more than worth it in my eyes, as I have at least 512mb of memory on all my computers)

It does not provide the ability to Show no images/cached images/all images on a page.

It does not provide the ability to do mouse gestures on parts of the browser besides the browser window itself.

It does not provide the ability to easily add keyboard shortcuts for almost any combination mapped to any number of commands.

It does not provide the ability to attach notes to a website.

It does not provide a reload from cache option, that I saw.

It does not provide Author/User mode for CSS.

These things are important to me. These are only the features that I did not find available even in extensions.

Until Firefox can do little things like this to make my life easier, I don't see myself using it.

Of course firefox is a quality browser, and completely usable by itself.  But not for most Opera users.

To match my experience with Opera, I need 20+ extensions, and even then it falls short. 

It does not provide a rewind/fast forward feature which always saves me time. 

It does not provide an indication of what zoom % the page is at.

It does not provide a Quick Preferences menu.

It does not provide the ability to add an "Enable proxy" checkbox or "Identify as" dropdown to any toolbar.

It does not provide the option to cache GDI objects for instant page reloading. (If Opera got rid of this, mem usage would go way down.  But it is more than worth it in my eyes, as I have at least 512mb of memory on all my computers)

It does not provide the ability to Show no images/cached images/all images on a page.

It does not provide the ability to do mouse gestures on parts of the browser besides the browser window itself.

It does not provide the ability to easily add keyboard shortcuts for almost any combination mapped to any number of commands.

It does not provide the ability to attach notes to a website.

It does not provide a reload from cache option, that I saw.

It does not provide Author/User mode for CSS.

These things are important to me.  These are only the features that I did not find available even in extensions.

Until Firefox can do little things like this to make my life easier, I don't see myself using it.

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I agree, I cant see myself going back to FX :l

R1ck13, the Mac ports of both Opera and Firefox aren't the best, but my comparison does show that Firefox ports better to other OS's than Opera.

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Argh rite, i miss understood you there, sorry.

Where did I say Opera should include the Web Developer toolbar? I said that using a plugin kinda defeats the purpose of Opera's little Swiss army knife design.

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Thats not what i meant, I read your post as if you were saying opera should'nt be allowed any plugins that add extra features (like firefox's extensions), which i'm sure you meant as you compared the toolbar it to that of the extension for firefox.

So basically, all i said is the opposite of what i'm thinking you said.

As you seen in this thread, there are reports on some people's systems that Firefox truly is leaner and faster. On my PowerBook, Firefox with two tabs takes up 38.82MB of RAM. Opera, 48.73MB of RAM.

RAM is there to be used, not protected. Opera stores a lot of things in memory which it doesn't need to but it speeds up the program a LOT. For example, Opera keeps browsing history and cache in memory so it has instant access to any of the files needed by the user. Opera's caching technique doesn't influence how lean the program is and it makes the program heck of a lot faster, so pointing out lower memory usage doesn't prove that it's leaner or faster, it could mean the exact opposite.

R1ck13, the Mac ports of both Opera and Firefox aren't the best, but my comparison does show that Firefox ports better to other OS's than Opera.

For Mac, probably true because the Mac has always been the trailing-behind project at Opera because Mac users are their smallest user-base. Firefox's own Mac builds used to suck when they still had a small user-base. I am having a hard-time understanding how your Mac comparison is supposed to relate to other operating systems though, while Mac might be Unix-based it is almost entirely different than many Unix/Linux distributions.

If Opera scares them off immediately with its jumbled up mess of preferences, that's not a good thing.

I fail to see what is so scary about Opera's preferences.

Start and Exit -> Start With Homepage.

Personal Information -> First Name.

Skin -> Choose.

Windows -> Prefer Pages Inside Window.

History and Cache -> Empty Now.

I see nothing hard at all about any of it and I fail to see how it's a "jumbled up mess of preferences." I don't see how it could be made any simpler without reducing functionality, and that's something which all Opera users hate to see. What do you suggest, move all of the options to a practically unusable list hidden by some obscure URL like Firefox does with about:config and then ask developers to create an extension to make that part of the application usable and then have the extension developers spread their configuration options all around the interface? No thanks, I like the way Opera does it better.

Because having them mostly turned off means I need to trek into customizing them to see what I want.

Rightclick on toolbar -> customize -> show hidden toolbars while customizing. It's simple. I don't know why I bothered replying to this because if they did show those toolbars by default then you would complain about it being bloated, and I'll bet on that.

I did hear Opera had an plug-in, but that would defeat the purpose of Opera, wouldn't it?

How so? Opera's purpose is to let users check their email (m2), stay updated with news (rss), talk with friends (irc), browse the web, and offer control over the interface for customizations to be made so each person can browse how they want. Opera delivers on it's promise and it's purpose remains intact because Opera was not created as a web developer's tool or a "swiss army knife tool" but allows the users to customize Opera so that it is what they want it to be.

Honestly, we shouldn't even be comparing the two. Firefox is ONLY a browser, whilst Opera is more than that. If anything, you guys should be debating over whether Mozilla or Opera is better. That would make more sense.

And I hope you know that all of this debating is leading nowhere. Unless of course winning fights on teh interweb makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, it makes no difference.

I think this thread has gone on long enough. Everybody's said his/her piece numerous times, and it's gotten nobody anywhere. Just drop it...

Honestly, we shouldn't even be comparing the two. Firefox is ONLY a browser, whilst Opera is more than that. If anything, you guys should be debating over whether Mozilla or Opera is better. That would make more sense.

And I hope you know that all of this debating is leading nowhere. Unless of course winning fights on teh interweb makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, it makes no difference.

I think this thread has gone on long enough. Everybody's said his/her piece numerous times, and it's gotten nobody anywhere. Just drop it...

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If you don't like it, then stay out of the thread. It's pretty simple.

And there is nothing wrong with comparing the browser aspect of Opera with Firefox.

Edited by vcv

I'll just slip in here for a minute.. First off, firefox with 30 tabs open does not slow down one bit for me (1gig ram i guess).

Also, I run firefox with extensions that have features that opera does not have. Such as weather in the bottom right hand corner, and the yahoo toolbar. I cant do that with opera.

Also, in my opinion (this whole thing is about opinion anyways) the toolbars in opera are much too fat compared to FF. Firefox is nice and slim, therefore me adding the yahoo toolbar didnt do much. In fact, it made it equal to the size of the default opera toolbars.

The sidebar in opera is annoying, I dont use mouse gestures, the multi-engine search bar in the top corner of FF is nice and small and clean. Opera has to have one bar for each search engine you want. I can also add my own engines like the CDDB database.

and frankly, I dont like how I have to config opera to make the site think im using some other browser in order to make some sites work properly. All I have to do for firefox is install it and surf.

Thats just my two cents.

If you don't like it, then stay out of the thread.  It's pretty simple.

And there is nothing wrong with comparing the browser aspect of Opera with Firefox.

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I think he has a right to his opinion on the matter. Dont tell him to stay out of the thread. This is an open community board for a reason.

I think he has a right to his opinion on the matter. Dont tell him to stay out of the thread. This is an open community board for a reason.

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Why complain about it? If he thinks it's a waste of time, he doesn't have to read it.

Also, in my opinion (this whole thing is about opinion anyways) the toolbars in opera are much too fat compared to FF.
Opinion? But that's not opinion. It's something measurable. They are NOT fat compared to Firefox, in fact. If you still insist they are, I will prove you wrong with screen-shots.
The sidebar in opera is annoying,
You can disable it easily.
I dont use mouse gestures,
Point being... ?
the multi-engine search bar in the top corner of FF is nice and small and clean. Opera has to have one bar for each search engine you want. I can also add my own engines like the CDDB database.
Huh? See attachments. You can add search engines in Opera too.
and frankly, I dont like how I have to config opera to make the site think im using some other browser in order to make some sites work properly.
Well I sure hope you don't blame Opera for that.

post-4489-1106451749.png

post-4489-1106451757.png

Point being... ?

Well I sure hope you don't blame Opera for that.

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1. My point is why use one or the other, when the other has more features that I dont care about and is just wasting space?

2. I can blame Opera for that, because once again. Why use a browser that wont view some sites correctly, when the other one views them just fine?

Its all a matter of how many of the features you will actually USE. I will not use anything that Opera has simply because I dont want nor need to. FF comes completely empty of features (for the most part) and lets you add what YOU want to add, instead of having the company decide for you.

And also, I'd rather not have an ad in my browser.

2. I can blame Opera for that, because once again. Why use a browser that wont view some sites correctly, when the other one views them just fine?
Look at what you yourself said:
and frankly, I dont like how I have to config opera to make the site think im using some other browser in order to make some sites work properly.
You have to trick the site into thinking you're using another browser.. meaning, opera CAN display the page fine if the page wouldn't send opera different code!

So please tell me HOW that is Opera's fault? THAT alone, what YOU said. I'm not talking about pages that Opera simply messes up a little bit.

Its all a matter of how many of the features you will actually USE. I will not use anything that Opera has simply because I dont want nor need to. FF comes completely empty of features (for the most part) and lets you add what YOU want to add, instead of having the company decide for you.

All products have features you probably won't use. THAT is not the issue. The issue is performance and usability.

It sounds to me like you're looking for reasons to put down Opera.

"You have to trick the site into thinking you're using another browser.. meaning, opera CAN display the page fine if the page wouldn't send opera different code!"

Its operas fault in a way and its the site authors fault in a way. My point is, you COULD config opera to view it right, but which is easier. Configuring or just surfing right away? THATS my point.

I'm not looking for reasons to put down Opera. If I was I wouldnt have tried installing 2 different versions of it as to make SURE that it sucked and it wasnt just a fluke. I gave it a chance, I didnt like it. And these are my reasons as to WHY i didnt like it.

All products have features that I probably wont use, but my point is firefox doesnt. TADA, hellooooo do you see what im saying now? Firefox has what I need and doesnt have what I dont want. Simple as that. I cant remove those useless features from Opera. But I can with FF.

And there is nothing wrong with comparing the browser aspect of Opera with Firefox.

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Neither do I. But I've read countless posts comparing the fact that Opera has a mail feature, an IRC feature, and a load of other stuff.

Its operas fault in a way and its the site authors fault in a way. My point is, you COULD config opera to view it right, but which is easier. Configuring or just surfing right away? THATS my point.
Opera identifies as IE by default. So what you are suggesting is what it does. You can't blame Opera for something that it not it's fault.
TADA, hellooooo do you see what im saying now? Firefox has what I need and doesnt have what I dont want. Simple as that. I cant remove those useless features from Opera. But I can with FF.
Of course I see what you're saying. But you're just tricking your minding. It's perception. Having those features has little to no effect on performance and usability. But your mind thinks having less features is better.

Do you use proxies? Maybe they should remove it and make it an extension.

yeah firefox, your fanboy here forgot to mention the barrage of webpages opera doesnt load properly

and youd be suprised how many things it doenst load properly you dontnotice but will screw you upi was an opera user for years until i discovered the web with firefox, will NEVER go back

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That's so very true! I was an Opera fan until I failed to enrol in one of university courses before the due date.

(Long story: Opera kept said the server was unavailable or something similar and I couldn't access the required page. I was so much an Opera fan that I didn't try other browser. It took a month to realize that the website perfectly loaded in other browsers IE, Firefox but not in Opera.)

It can be the webmaster's fault for not having standard html whatever code to render in Opera properly. But Opera should have at least warned the user the page would not display propery (like in IE) so that the user will be tempted to try the URL in another browser.

I warn you guys: not rendering webpages properly in Opera is a serious issue. It can affect your life! So make sure you browser critical websites using several browsers.

This VCV guy.. haha. Oh man. He sounds like he's got a something up his backside.

I'm not dissing Opera. I just downloaded it. Seems very nice - a lot of useful features (fastforward) but I don't need all that. I'm happy with Firefox. Does it's job - It browses in the internet. I'm happy it does that because IE could barely do it. So I'm really not looking the gift-horse in the mouth and cribbing about features it DOESNT have.. because look what it DOES have. At the end of the day, it gets you from page A to page B and that's all that matters. Well, that's just me personally.

VCV though.. calm down man. Stop telling people to leave the thread. People aren't out to put down Opera. Put it this way. Opera and Firefox are a team against Internet Explorer. You both are the alternate.

The sidebar in opera is annoying, I dont use mouse gestures, the multi-engine search bar in the top corner of FF is nice and small and clean. Opera has to have one bar for each search engine you want. I can also add my own engines like the CDDB database.

1. My point is why use one or the other, when the other has more features that I dont care about and is just wasting space?

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So your point is that because of the space wasted by its many features Opera is too large compared to Firefox. So you wish Opera's size were smaller so that it could be compared to Firefox. Guess what, it is already smaller. So either I don't understand your point or it's just dumb.

Anyway, you can add your own search engines in Opera too.

This VCV guy.. haha. Oh man. He sounds like he's got a something up his backside.

I'm not dissing Opera. I just downloaded it. Seems very nice - a lot of useful features (fastforward) but I don't need all that. I'm happy with Firefox. Does it's job - It browses in the internet. I'm happy it does that because IE could barely do it. So I'm really not looking the gift-horse in the mouth and cribbing about features it DOESNT have.. because look what it DOES have. At the end of the day, it gets you from page A to page B and that's all that matters. Well, that's just me personally.

VCV though.. calm down man. Stop telling people to leave the thread. People aren't out to put down Opera. Put it this way. Opera and Firefox are a team against Internet Explorer. You both are the alternate.

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I don't think he has any issue whatsoever if you or anyone prefer to use Firefox over Opera. It's just the misinformed, biased and invalid reasons others argued about how Firefox is better than Opera that made him and many others pi**ed.

Maybe they should! I dont use em.

How do you know it has no effect on performance? I'm sure that takes up a few MB of hard disk space and RAM as well.

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Because Opera is still smaller than Firefox in download size and disk space, and is still faster for me on 6 different machines.

This VCV guy.. haha. Oh man. He sounds like he's got a something up his backside.

I'm not dissing Opera. I just downloaded it. Seems very nice - a lot of useful features (fastforward) but I don't need all that. I'm happy with Firefox. Does it's job - It browses in the internet. I'm happy it does that because IE could barely do it. So I'm really not looking the gift-horse in the mouth and cribbing about features it DOESNT have.. because look what it DOES have. At the end of the day, it gets you from page A to page B and that's all that matters. Well, that's just me personally.

VCV though.. calm down man. Stop telling people to leave the thread. People aren't out to put down Opera. Put it this way. Opera and Firefox are a team against Internet Explorer. You both are the alternate.

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Of course Firefox does it's job and does it well. Opera can do it more efficiently for some people when you learn to use it though.

Getting from Page A to Page B.. well.. every browser does that :)

I am completely calm. I also suggested if this thread bothered him, he could leave it. I did NOT tell him to.

And you seem to be forgetting that I DO use Firefox. I also recommend to other people, depending on their needs and the type of user they are.

oneone hit the head on the nail. My only reason for posting in this thread is to try and tame the misinformation being spread about Opera. I could care less if you use Opera or FF, but don't come in here and tell me "Opera is bloated!" or some other crap. That spreads a bad and false image for Opera. Users should try Opera AND Firefox without having to have other people tell them bad information about either.

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This did not facilitate online gaming as I would often have to wait minutes for a game to load or "draw" on the screen, and trying to download pirated games wasn't simple either. I remember getting tired of waiting for online games to load and just downloading simulator games from the Big Fish Games website instead, only to be disappointed after finding out that I was just being given access to trial versions of the title, and I needed to fork out money to pay for the full version. All of this is to say that it wasn't very easy to find entertainment options on the home PC when I was a kid, due to a number of reasons, mostly outside of my control. This situation pushed me towards a rather unconventional ally: Microsoft Paint. Whenever the internet wasn't working as good as I expected, I would simply spin up Paint and draw complete rubbish on the canvas. Of course, that wasn't always the intention, but it usually happened when I messed up drawing a straight line or something, and then I would give up on that particular piece and simply draw a random collection of objects. Microsoft Paint was extremely accessible and easy to use. Even if you weren't an artist, you could quickly understand the tools at your disposal and how to leverage them on a canvas. The absolute breadth on offer ensured that each painting was truly unique, as you could utilize various combinations of tools like the pencil, paint, spray paint, and more to truly personalize your creation. Since I wasn't particularly good at drawing both on digital screen or a physical screen, I remember that my main style of art would be to insert a bunch of randomly intersecting lines and then fill them with random colors through the paint can. I have trying to replicate that art style in the latest version of Paint below, and as you can see, it's truly Pablo Picasso-esque. The human imagination truly knows no bounds Microsoft Paint kept me occupied for hours and was my best friend when video games on the home PC were inaccessible for one reason or the other. There was no academic or professional reason for which I would need to use Paint, but I still loved using it in my personal time, even if what I created wasn't worth being shown to anyone. It was simply fun. Fast-forward to today, and the situation is mostly the same. Now that I am almost 29 years old, and I still have no reason to use Microsoft Paint in a professional capacity. In fact, I don't even use it in a personal capacity, except to dabble with it from time to time, just to see if core functionalities are still intact. And I'm happy to say that I think Microsoft Paint still offers the same accessibility and inviting experience that it did to me a couple of decades ago, even though its UX has been refreshed and it's been integrated with Copilot features. Interestingly, things could have been a lot different, had Microsoft had its way. Microsoft Paint was marked for deprecation with the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update in 2017, and even began displaying a product retirement alert, urging customers to shift to Paint 3D instead. Fortunately, after consumer backlash, Microsoft reversed course on this decision, and Paint continues to be a native app inside Windows installations that can also be updated quite frequently through the Microsoft Store. Instead, Paint 3D ended up on the chopping block, which is for the better, I think. I have intermittently played around with Microsoft's refreshed Paint experience in the past few years, and I do think it has received worthwhile upgrades. the UI and the UX has been modernized while retaining core functionality, and the app is still fairly easy to use. It doesn't meet any of my use-cases, but I've never really had any use-cases ever, as described previously. Of course, the elephant in the room is the Copilot integration. Personally, I believe that this is one place where Copilot does make sense, environmental concerns aside. I know that a lot of creatives use AI to generate images, and while some may be using professional alternatives, Paint still offers a decent casual experience, with the power of Copilot. Of course, you do need to have a valid Microsoft 365 Copilot license and available credits to use it, but even if you don't, you still get the big Copilot button in the toolbar, unfortunately. All in all, I am glad that Microsoft Paint continues to be a native feature in Windows 11, and a piece of software that has evolved to meet modern needs without cutting off its own roots. It's just an iconic piece of Windows history that was an essential part of my childhood, and while I don't use it anymore, I'm just glad it is still there.
    • 2TB WD_Black SN7100 PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD drops to its lowest price in over three months by Fiza Ali Amazon is currently offering the 2TB WD_Black SN7100 internal solid-state drive at its lowest price in over three months, so you may want to check it out, if you have been considering a storage upgrade, before the deal dries up (purchase link is toward the end of the article). Featuring a PCIe Gen 4.0 interface and M.2 2280 form factor, the SN7100 promises to deliver sequential read speeds of up to 7,250MB/s and sequential write speeds reaching 6,900MB/s, offering as much as a 35% improvement in performance compared with the previous generation. It also achieves random read speeds of 1,000,000 IOPS and random write speeds of 1,400,000 IOPS. The drive uses Western Digital’s TLC 3D NAND technology for reliable performance and is further supported by a five-year limited warranty. It also offers strong endurance, rated at up to 1,200TBW, making it suitable for demanding workloads such as gaming, content creation, and high-speed recording. Moreover, its DRAM-less architecture claims to improve power efficiency (the SSD relies on system memory for caching via HMB), while the WD_Black Dashboard software enables users to monitor drive health, install firmware updates, and activate Game Mode for potentially better performance. Finally, it operates within an operating temperature range of 0°C to 85°C, and can withstand storage temperatures from -40°C to 85°C. 2TB WD_Black SN7100 PCIe Gen4 NVMe SSD: $242.96 (Amazon US) Check this deal out if you want a 4TB option. Good to know This Amazon deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
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