New Linux Community + Why Windows article

By peekj
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Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

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I've got it down to 2 errors on XHTML 4.01 Transitional. I give up.

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Two errors isn't bad at all.

My cheesy personal homepage has 20 (just checked). :p

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Grand Master

MrA

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I've got it down to 2 errors on XHTML 4.01 Transitional. I give up.

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I get 3 errors. Anywho, you have no doctype in the page. You said you can't put it as the first line since this is a php doc. Then put the doctype immediatly before the<html>

The iframe has not "onload" according to the specs. Depending on what the script does (I haven't done javascript in ages), it might be able to remove it from the main doc and put it into the subdoc.

The td "background" attribute does not exist but you might be able to replace this with css.

EDIT: Try using the css element 'background-image'. This should work on most browsers (inc. IE) since it's CSS1

And 2 (i got 3) isn't bad. I ran this page through the html validator and got over 600 errors.

Edited by MrA
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peekj

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The onload runs a javascript that dynamically resizes the size of the iframe to fit the content. Ironically that no longer works if I declare the doctype :(

I've fixed the TD background tag and am using css instead.

Edited by peekj
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Grand Master

MrA

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Since you're using php, couldn't you use the script to directly include the news.php script in the main page. This will mean no iframe and no javascript. Just 1 page with the content included at run-time.

EDIT: of course, you'll need to remove the <html> and <head> and other tags from the news.php script. Anywho, this is just an idea. It's good that you're now down to one error (not including the doctype error).

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peekj

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I could and I thought about it... but this way I can keep my margins on the page, ie the logo, menu, etc, the same throughout, no matter what the iframe's content is. A lot of time it would be another php script, like the download page, and including that in there would surely cause problems.

Edit: I am doing away with the iframes, me thinks....

Edited by peekj
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  • 2 weeks later...
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thug_poet22

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I think its a really great site, i dont see the popups because im using firefox, and the ad dont bother me because i have a fast connection. But you have to take the loading time of your page into consideration. Many of the views will probably have a slower connection. But the content is really great. Keep up the good work.

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peekj

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Thanks. There are no popup ads. I believe my counter script snug some in in its source code... damn $&*@$*$.

As far as loading times, they shouldn't be bad... the ads are google text ads.

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Cube

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Some things..

-Setting up my TV Tuner, Web-Camera, and Scanner are all fast and easy on winxp.

-PocketPC requires activesync and my dell DJ's software dudebox works on windows.

-Games.. (big thing) linux cant play em :rolleyes:

-DTS-ES and true 7.1 support for my audigy2zs like in windows?

Yea linux is great and all but for me WinXP is more efficient and does what I need it to do. Things like spyware and adware are only problems for noobs that dont know what they're installing.. as for the security issues keep winxp upto date and install sygate plus any antivirus.

Edited by Cube
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Grand Master

n3wt

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-Games.. (big thing) linux cant play em
Thats getting better, most new OpenGL games are released for Linux. (Well, maybe not most but...)
WinXP is more efficient

I would change that to say "You are more efficient on WinXP" :p.

as for the security issues

When they say Windows security issues, they are usually reffering to it deployed as a server, which is generally a bad idea :p.

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Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

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Things like spyware and adware are only problems for noobs that dont know what they're installing.. as for the security issues keep winxp upto date and install sygate plus any antivirus.

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Perhaps Bill Gates falls under the category of "noobs that dont know what they're installing"?

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18881 :shifty:

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Grand Master

Diffused Mind

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-PocketPC requires activesync and my dell DJ's software dudebox works on windows.

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There is a program for Linux that can sync your PPC. Have you tried AS in Wine?

-Setting up my TV Tuner, Web-Camera, and Scanner are all fast and easy on winxp.

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I had no problem getting my webcam, scanner, and a friends TV tuner card worked great on his Gentoo box.

-DTS-ES and true 7.1 support for my audigy2zs like in windows?

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ALSA has support for a lot of different configurations. Have you checked out the site?

Yea linux is great and all but for me WinXP is more efficient and does what I need it to do. Things like spyware and adware are only problems for noobs that dont know what they're installing.. as for the security issues keep winxp upto date and install sygate plus any antivirus.

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Linux is inefficient when you use some 2-bit binary-only distro that has everything compiled for a damn 486. Compile your own stuff(gcc, glibc, etc...) on a system with an optimized GCC 3.4 + NPTL and see the speed fly.

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Grand Master

Shadrack

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Activesync w/ Outlook XP in WINE... CRINGE!!!!

Sure, you could sync that way. But who the hell would want to use Outlook in Linux at all?!?! there are plenty of other applications out there that are just so much better then wipping out the WINE on it.

I wish there was native pocket pc support in Linux. But it will be a cold day in hell.

However, i think you can throw Linux on some pocket pc models. I've been wanting to try it, but I'm scared I won't be able to get WM2003 back on it.

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Grand Master

ootput

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Linux is inefficient when you use some 2-bit binary-only distro that has everything compiled for a damn 486.  Compile your own stuff(gcc, glibc, etc...) on a system with an optimized GCC 3.4 + NPTL and see the speed fly.

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Yeah, but then again, you'd have to wait for it all to compile error-free:whistle:e: Distcc doesn't hurt though;);)

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ckozlowski

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I started using Linux around Red Hat 7.3, and have been very pleased with the recient Fedora Core releases. However, I do not see Linux taking over the deskop anytime soon, and likewise, will probably continue using Windows XP for most of my tasks. Here's why:

The Windows interface is intutaive to most people, including myself. I remember hunting around for hours looking for stuff in RHL 7.3, and I still have trouble finding some of the information I want in Fedora Core 3. Wheither it's hardware information in Device Manager, or just looking for the calculator app, I know where it all is. The interfaces and names for Linux apps can get just downright confusing at times. It's a level of comfort people have that I think Linux has yet to match. If I want to write a document, I use Microsoft Word. What the heck is Emacs? Any linux pro knows exactly what it is, but to the majority of users, Linux is alien, and I do not think they make enough effort to help first time users.

If I want to create a shortcut on the desktop in Windows, I right click and that's that. I have to go through several steps to do this in Linux, and even then, I do not have an easy time finding what programs are installed or what does what. For all of the things said about Windows software, I can count on it being immeditaly accessable in my Programs menu, under "Program Files", and I can add or remove it via "Add or Remove" programs in the Control Panel. When I install firefox on RHL9 or FC3, I have no idea if it's in /usr/lib/mozilla or in my root folder or wherever. Again, a linux professional will know, but a newbie will not know the difference between /bin, /usr, /lib, etc. Heck, I forget where stuff is located all of the time. It's not as intutative.

Another thing is driver support. It's lacking. In my company my task is to create web appliances and turn-key servers for companies looking to provide an all-in-one hardware/software solution such as a firewall or mail server. Most units run linux (Linux is a great server OS.) but often I have to design my unit by what parts are compatable. More often than not it is because the hardware company does not open source their driver for intellectual properity reasons, so I get a pre-compiled binary that runs with a stock kernel, and that's it. (Anyone who's tried working with the Sil3112A SATA RAID chip knows what I'm talking about.) There are many other pieces of software that fall into this same category. In Windows, so long as I'm using XP or 2000, I can use any hardware I want. Compatability is there 99% of the time.

These are not insurrmountable problems for Linux. The driver support in FC3 is much much better than it was in say, RHL9, and SuSE has done a great job in identifying system components and making setup and install a breeze. But I do not think any of them matches the ease of use of Windows. I realize some will say that Windows is "for n00bs" or something to this extent, and that maybe I want everything "too easy" for me. This is partially true. 90% of end users don't want to run from a console or memorize commands, or look up what KGet, Emacs, or XRoast do. They want point and click, ease of use, and intutative menus and interfaces. For whatever Windows lacks in the security department, they have arguably created the best UI for the computing public. If Linux is to make inroads on the desktop, they need to seriously analyze and respect Microsoft's design.

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Cube

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There is a program for Linux that can sync your PPC.  Have you tried AS in Wine?
no I havent sounds like too much work and headache. If it can work with outlook and activesync then great..
I had no problem getting my webcam, scanner, and a friends TV tuner card worked great on his Gentoo box.

I guess I got more "guides" and forums to read :x :x

ALSA has support for a lot of different configurations.  Have you checked out the site?
Alsa is so stupid to setup. I've done it in gentoo and I couldnt find how to get 7.1 sound even after posting on the forums and going to irc
Linux is inefficient when you use some 2-bit binary-only distro that has everything compiled for a damn 486.  Compile your own stuff(gcc, glibc, etc...) on a system with an optimized GCC 3.4 + NPTL and see the speed fly.

Its inefficient in the way that it requires time to compile kernels and junk trying to set everything up. Its a waste of time.. why look for windows alternative programs when you have windows itself

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ckozlowski

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ALSA may be easy to setup when configured by a linux veteran, but no one would know where to start if they were learning Linux for the first time. Why should you even have to configure the sound system, when in Windows someone can pop in a CD, hit "next", and be done? Linux needs to emulate this kind of ease...

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Grand Master

Shadrack

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I can't help but agree with you Cube. I think a lot of us in this forum can see why you have this "why bother" attitude and the only thing we can say to it is: because, why not?

Linux, outside of its powerful server side applications, is still just a hobbie OS for the desktop. People get, like me, enjoy trying to debug it and get it to work exactly how we want it to. We take pride in the fact that we can hack away at it trying to solve something that is rather trivial in the windows world.

In the server world, Linux has really given Windows a run for its money. Linux has some really superior servers available for it.

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ckozlowski

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nic,

I agree and disagree with you. Linux's filesystem, user structure, and multi-user architecture are perfect for servers, and their high level of customization gives system engineers a much higher level of flexability with Linux than Windows. This is expecially true for web appliances and set-top boxes, where the server is asked to do one thing and one thing only, wheither it be file serving or web caching or mail filtering. With Windows Server, all of the software must be loaded regardless of what you want it to do, and then turn off the features you don't need to enhanse security. With Linux, you can load the kernel, ping, traceroute, and apache, and you're done. I've seen quite a few units where the OS was stored on a 256MB Type I Compact Flash, because the OS requirements were so small with Linux. Try that with Windows Server.

On the other hand, driver support leaves alot to be desired in Linux. onboard RAID solutions are hardly woth considerating due to lack of open source drivers, and alot of times the drivers are crafted by hobbiests for no specific company. Fine if you're trying to get something to work at home, but a whole different matter when one is looking at the Enterprise.

As a server OS, with driver issues aside, Linux is great. (I'm testing RHL 9 servers as I type this...=) But I do not see Linux as a desktop OS anytime soon, for mainly the same reasons Cube and I outlined above.

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Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

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I haven't had the hardware issues that Cube and ckozlowski seem to have had experience with. For me, Linux has "just worked", and I have only had to investigate options (usually in text files) when I decided I wanted to explore and change a bit of how my box runs.

I gave up Windows at home almost 2 years ago (just 2 months shy of that date). I have had much less problems than I have had with Windows, and I continue to run smoothly with my FC1 installation, while my wife and 10 year old son periodically struggle with their Windows XP boxes (reboots due to sluggishness or hanging, mostly).

However, I agree that Linux isn't the answer for everybody - just as Windows isn't. And, I would wager that there are 3 times the number of current Windows users who would get along just fine with a GNU/Linux box (pre-set-up, just like their Windows PC was).

The only points that I disagree with from the above posts are the claim that "it requires time to compile kernels and junk trying to set everything up.", when this is generally an exception, not the rule (unless you pick a distro like Gentoo, which is centered around compiling), or that the Windows filesystem makes more sense than organizing things the *nix way. I view this as a horizontal vs. vertical filesystem setup. Windows puts all their junk from an installed application in a single folder, whether it is an executeable, help file, .dll library, or what-not. (and this isn't really true, as it also scatters a few files in the Windows system folders and in a registry file). It isn't as "neatly organized" as you might first think. In *nix, executables go in the /bin/ directory, help files in man, and so forth. There are different /bin/ directories, which makes perfect sense once you realize that unix is a multi-user OS, and there is a bin for system-wide use, a bin for all 'users', plus one that each user may put their individual executables into (usually in their home, so it is private). Different? Yes. Wrong? No.

I think that was all I really wanted to add to this thread. :unsure: :D

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Zerosleep

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" Wheither it's hardware information in Device Manager, or just looking for the calculator app, I know where it all is."

Can someone say xcalc? I got my mom using linux now [arch linux!], and she is doing fine. People need to be taught that just because it's different, doesn't mean they can't handle it. Give someone some confidence, and they will succeed.

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