The MSStyle to WindowBlinds porter manifest.

[Pas]

most of the neowin readers are young high school or college aged students who prefer not to purchase software. if it can be done freely, that is the avenue they will pursue. my daughter graduated from college last year. i know there were times when she didn't have much expendable income. dad paid her rent and made sure she didn't go hungry, tho :) . as for the wb skins not being useable, that's rubbish! i've been using Anamoly since the day it was released. if you're not familiar with Anamoly, it's one of the skins in the Unorthodox skinpack. there are hundreds of really good wb skins (of which, i have mabye 60 on my machine) and there are many very nice msstyle skins. the msstyle skins i like, i convert and add the wb features to them. there many things wb can do that msstyles can't. kol, please add the wb features :) if you don't, i will ;) it all boils down to what a person likes, visually. some like blondes, others like redheads. as for an athlon a64 3400+ with 2 gig of ram having glitches when running wb.....it isn't wb. i have an a64 3500+ with 1 gig of pc3500 ram and i have never experienced any glitches. i just built an a64 3400 with 512 mb of ram for my daughter and it doesn't experience any glitches, either. my system has an ati 9800 pro card, her's has an nvidia 5700 ultra. also, make sure the themes service is disabled. now, getting back to the premise of the thread....adam, the convertor does a great job and i know you're never satisfied with it's progress. i'm sure whatever advances you add to sks will be benificial to the community.

Edited December 29, 2004 by Pas

[#Michael]

It is still a question of choice. I just hope that in the end your porter won't kill the msstyle "free of charge" community by getting everyone to use WB, and then grab them by the balls, er I mean wallet.

I hope it always stays free also. Creativity should never hampered by fee for service.

[Circaflex]

i used windowblinds before, slowed down my system and thought id never use it again. With the purchase of my 6800 gt from bfg, windowblinds came on the cd. I gave it a try and put the theme supplied i think it was a bfg/nvidia theme, and well its a great program. I love all the eyecandy so it appeals to me more than msstyles now. I havent really noticed any performance hits, but i shouldnt ive got a fast system. :)

[Dr.Jones]

I hope it always stays free also.  Creativity should never hampered by fee for service.

585187595[/snapback]

And everytime I see another extra bloated and unusable skinpack being sold on wincustomize.org, I cringe.

Come on, WB skin designer ! quit it with the bevel effect in photoshop. It's not even funny anymore. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ITS MADE FROM METAL OK?? even if it looked real, maybe I don't want my interface to look like some industrial metallic waste being reprocessed. now that was rude, I'm sorry.

Here's a smily : :)

[#Michael]

And everytime I see another extra bloated and unusable skinpack being sold on wincustomize.org, I cringe.

Come on, WB skin designer ! quit it with the bevel effect in photoshop. It's not even funny anymore. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ITS MADE FROM METAL OK?? even if it looked real, maybe I don't want my interface to look like some industrial metallic waste being reprocessed. now that was rude, I'm sorry.

Here's a smily :  :)

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The only premium suites sold on wincustomize I have seen are from pixtudio which are great themes and very professional.

[Ji@nBing]

Re One last point about "quality" of skins.  Let us remember that it's not a fair comparsion to pick the top skins from Kol or b0se that get posted here on Neowin with the typical skin on WinCustomize.com.  If you want to do apples and apples, compare the skins on WinCustomize to the skins on ThemeXP.org.  The typical msstyle is pretty horrific. And I don't care for most WindowBlinds skins either.

In a given GOOD year of skinning, there are probably about three dozen GOOD skins created.  The best skins get mentioned here on Neowin. That is, after all, one of the points of coming to Neowin.net in the first place.

Cheers!

585187565[/snapback]

I completely agree with you here. It seems many of us on neowin only get our skins from here, gfxoais, ect... The places where the top and very elite styles are released. If you look at other skinning sites like themexp, most msstyles are just as bad, if not much worse than those ugly WB ones. There are a lot of really nice WB themes on wincustomize. The problem is there are also all those crappy ones, so you really have to sort through to find the nice ones. This can take a really long time and that's why I think a lot of people get turned off WB. Hopefully Frogboy can find a solution to this problem. Maybe have a seperate page for only top rated themes?

[Frogboy Administrators]

His reason is same as all the others such as myself don't use stardock's programs... you have to pay to use a program that can be emulated for free.

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If the features in msstyles are sufficient for you then obviously WindowBlinds isn't for you right?

It pure market terms you have something like this:

Let's say there are 1000 people out there who use Windows XP.

And lets say 990 of them could care less about how their title bars and Start bar look.

So we're talking about 10 people who want more.

Out of those 10, 5 of them basically just want something like Windows XP's but tweaked a little bit. They want maybe a Charcoal Windows XP or a cleaner version of Windows XP.

Those 5 would probably be perfectly happy with msstyles. However, not everyone is comfortable patching system files (and you techies who want to say there's no problem doing that should see our tech support when there's a new service pack or their default Windows XP skin has gotten wiped somehow or whatever). And for them $20 isn't a big deal. (and they can get skins like these)

So of those 5, let's say 2 of them buy WindowBlinds and 3 of them decided to patch their uxtheme.dll in some way.

The remaining 5 want more than what msstyles can do. They want "gaudy" blinking Christmas lights on their title bar or a integrated roll-up button in there or fatter borders or to make Windows look just like a Mac or whatever. Those 5 end up with WindowBlinds.

But obviously if you're one of the 5 people that just want a cleaner version of Windows XP's look ro something fairly similar to it but nicer and paying $20 seems like a "waste of money" on something like this then why not just patch uxtheme.dll?

And I certainly don't object to that. What I object to is those 3 people out of a 1000 acting like the 7 people out of the thousand are stupid or weird because their tastes, which are already outside the norm by a mile (since the average Windows user is likely to think we're all weird for giving a crap about what our XP GUI looks like) are different.

One last point: I do think Kol's skins are quite original and very good. I like them a lot.

When a WindowBlinds user is talking about msstyles being mostly Luna clones, they are meaning that the of the 802 msstyles created last year on the various sites probably around 700 of them were essentailly some derivative of either Luna or OS X with the reamining 100 or so being original and some number of those being really good. Kol's stuff, for instance, is very good and even when it's a port, it's very complete and solid (such as his Panther skin).

But the typical msstyle you find on a site like ThemeXP is the default Luna, colorized to some awful color and uploaded. Sometimes a Photoshop effect has been done on the title bars (now it's bumpy. now it has a texture, etc.).

[#Michael]

I completely agree with you here. It seems many of us on neowin only get our skins from here, gfxoais, ect... The places where the top and very elite styles are released. If you look at other skinning sites like themexp, most msstyles are just as bad, if not much worse than those ugly WB ones. There are a lot of really nice WB themes on wincustomize. The problem is there are also all those crappy ones, so you really have to sort through to find the nice ones. This can take a really long time and that's why I think a lot of people get turned off WB. Hopefully Frogboy can find a solution to this problem. Maybe have a seperate page for only top rated themes?

585187667[/snapback]

That's like having a seperate page for only top rated msstyles. How does one decide that? It's up to the user to figure which one he/she decides is great.

[imtoomuch]

(Moderator Hat On)

Just want to say how proud I am that this discussion is so constructive and so intelligent.

I am sure I can speak for many other long time Neowiners when I say that these kinds of in depth technical debates were more of a pipe dream a couple years ago.

This kind of discussion is precisely the reason why I think Neowin will eventually be one of the defacto tech web sites on the net (which it's been moving towards for a long time)

(Moderator Hat Off)

585187565[/snapback]

You're being sarcastic, right? :blink:

[Dr.Jones]

I agree with frogboy's thinking on that last post. Except the skins he linked to, look stupid. And over-beveled. Beveled like there is no tomorrow.

Really, people have to pay for these? Does this, in any way, mean that those skins are the best one for WB, and so good that you can in fact charge money for them???

No offense to the people who made it, but paying for that crap job is silly. IMHO <---

[Ji@nBing]

That's like having a seperate page for only top rated msstyles.  How does one decide that?  It's up to the user to figure which one he/she decides is great.

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They have a rating system on wincustomize now. The page could have the skins that have the top ratings. Of course it's up to the user, but this may give them less crap to sort through, thus making them less frusterated and put off by WB. I'm not saying this is the way to solve the problem, but there IS the problem and I think it would be smart of Stardock to try and address it.

[Frogboy Administrators]

I agree with frogboy's thinking on that last post. Except the skins he linked to, look stupid. And over-beveled. Beveled like there is no tomorrow.

Really, people have to pay for these? Does this, in any way, mean that those skins are the best one for WB, and so good that you can in fact charge money for them???

No offense to the people who made it, but paying for that crap job is silly. IMHO <---

585187708[/snapback]

You do realize that your response is what creates the stereotype of the nasty msstyles user?

First off, those are skins that are free to registered users of WindowBlinds. Secondly, I certainly don't think they're ugly. Feel free to post a link to YOUR desktop so we can gasp at the majestic beauty of it. I sure know a lot of people who requested those skins be ported to msstyles.

[Circaflex]

i just want to say i switched to the newest version 4.4 and its amazing, there isnt a performance hit guys. The dogma suite is amazing superb job. Stardock amazes me, they listened to the public saying it was using too much resources and what not and heres to prove its minimal hit. I like how i can have everything themed, without modding my system files. The folders, toolbars, windows, everything is skinned. If you like eyecandy like me, and your too scared in hosing up your system files by editing shell32.dll and those things, purchase this software.

[#Michael]

When a WindowBlinds user is talking about msstyles being mostly Luna clones, they are meaning that the of the 802 msstyles created last year on the various sites probably around 700 of them were essentailly some derivative of either Luna or OS X with the reamining 100 or so being original and some number of those being really good.  Kol's stuff, for instance, is very good and even when it's a port, it's very complete and solid (such as his Panther skin).

Please don't let it be said or implied that KoL isn't a great skinner. He does great work and he should take great pride in his work.

[Dr.Jones]

here

and BTW, not having a mostly beveled theme or a luna clone style atm doesn't mean I cant be entitled to an opinion or a perspective on the topic

[Frogboy Administrators]

They have a rating system on wincustomize now. The page could have the skins that have the top ratings. Of course it's up to the user, but this may give them less crap to sort through, thus making them less frusterated and put off by WB. I'm not saying this is the way to solve the problem, but there IS the problem and I think it would be smart of Stardock to try and address it.

585187723[/snapback]

Try http://www.xpthemes.com. I think only skins that have a rating of 3 stars or better are displayed there.

But eventually, on WC you will be able to set your threshold on a per library basis of what skins you see.

[Frogboy Administrators]

here

585187754[/snapback]

So you're basically trolling then? You're not a user of either msstyles of WindowBlinds.

[Dr.Jones]

I just got tired of the skin I had. I think it was Plastik. With msstyles. I used both, but didn't like skins for WB so uninstalled it.

[#Michael]

I agree with frogboy's thinking on that last post. Except the skins he linked to, look stupid. And over-beveled. Beveled like there is no tomorrow.

Really, people have to pay for these? Does this, in any way, mean that those skins are the best one for WB, and so good that you can in fact charge money for them???

No offense to the people who made it, but paying for that crap job is silly. IMHO <---

585187708[/snapback]

Now we are getting back into the petty bickering over which one is better again. This is why these threads pop up every so often and then disappear....its because conversations like this turn ugly very very quickly,

[memNOC]

a couple of points i'm tired of mentioning, and won't bother explaining.

1. it's pathetic that Stardock needs to lure MSStyle users in to use their product. that's like Apple's 'Switch' campaign. "there's nothing you can't do on a Mac, that you can do on a PC" and "how can we make the competition look inferior in order for people to use our product?", by saying "i get it! let's steal our competition's userbase and include all their offered features!". (N) plus, you're fighting an invisible enemy. there is no commercial competition for Stardock, you're the only ones charging for something that is offered for free (yea, you and TGTSoft. hooray).

2. MSStyle>WB importing should require a license. if the author of an MSStyle skin doesn't want it to be used on WB, his artistic decision should be respected.

3. i'm happy with MSStyles: it skins everything i need it to (after all, who needs a skinned command prompt?!), and never fails to do its job (Outpost windows, some prompt windows on Java sites, some dialog boxes, etc. ALL failed to skin with various WB skins in version 4.3.. and by 'fail', i don't mean they missed some lines here and there, but everything had a freakin Win3.x look).. i don't need colorizing, i don't need to import MSStyles, and i definitelly don't need to pay for a more advanced version of uxtheme.

and please, don't tell me you still think WB takes up less resources than a patched uxtheme.dll system. that's just silly and misleading.

:)

[imtoomuch]

But the typical msstyle you find on a site like ThemeXP is the default Luna, colorized to some awful color and uploaded. Sometimes a Photoshop effect has been done on the title bars (now it's bumpy. now it has a texture, etc.).

585187684[/snapback]

Such as this or this? Those are two WB skins, that you linked to, that fit that exact description!

And just because Dr.Jones said the he thinks the skins are ugly does not mean he is trolling. Since when is simply stating an opinion considered trolling?

[msg43]

Those 5 would probably be perfectly happy with msstyles. However, not everyone is comfortable patching system files (and you techies who want to say there's no problem doing that should see our tech support when there's a new service pack or their default Windows XP skin has gotten wiped somehow or whatever).  And for them $20 isn't a big deal. (and they can get skins like these)

585187684[/snapback]

you just posted the wrong link. Those Windowblinds themes suck!

I've used windows blinds before. It was pretty good program. I loved it when the guiolympics were around. Well I didn't know about neowin back then. I kinda use the windowblind program well. umm.... I'm not gonna say how I used it :ninja:

Anywas I have seen some really good windowblind themes. I really whish they would be ported to mssstye.

I'm 13. I don't have a lot of money. I get maybe $250-$300 a year. Thats including christmas, easter, bday, etc... I won't buy something when I get something similar for free because I would rather spend my money on a new case, cpu, mobo, video game, etc...

P.S. Wincustomize is good for wallpaper :yes:

[Dr.Jones]

Now we are getting back into the petty bickering over which one is better again.  This is why these threads pop up every so often and then disappear....its because conversations like this turn ugly very very quickly,

585187785[/snapback]

the discussion was already going there when it was said that msstyle was just luna clones, remember? anyway, you focused only on that part of the whole thing that I said about WB and porting msstyles to WB.

[#Michael]

here

and BTW, not having a mostly beveled theme or a luna clone style atm doesn't mean I cant be entitled to an opinion or a perspective on the topic

585187754[/snapback]

You are trying to prove your point but post a screen shot using windows classic?

[Dr.Jones]

You are trying to prove your point but post a screen shot using windows classic?

585187805[/snapback]

HEY ! what are YOU trying to prove with the skin (or lack of) I have ??

What does it have to do with my arguments, or yours, for that matters.

Really, you don't have to justify yourself because of what I said, and you don't have to take me down (or try to) either. Why don't YOU stay on topic too

All I meant is that WB does maybe too much for a lot of the people complaining that it costs too much (or anything at all) and also much of the skins are too ugly to be usable.

And there you are criticizing what skin I have on... What is your point exactly ?