Would you ever go back?

[Alex Shenoy]

I use Linux for most of my work. Especially programming and development. But I also use Windows for games. Right now, I lost my Linux HD when it failed and started its banging and not working stuff. So, I am in Windows now. But as soon as I replace the hard drive and get gentoo installed, I'll be back to the Linux thing.

Also, on a side note, I think that as soon as people start writing a good Direct X system for Linux, it'll start to be viable for games, and I will be able to leave Windows for good. Ah, Anybody care to get a good Direct X emulator working?

--Alex

[CaKeY]

OpenGL rocks. :)

[farmeunit]

OK. Then let me ask this. Do you not ACTUALLY install the programs in Linux? And how does that front end work? Where do the updates actually come from for Linux as far as the apt-get? If I should post these dumb questions somewhere else, let me know.

[ThaOddie]

As soon as someone sides with windows, someone bashes them??  Anyway I have a dual boot with SuSe and XP.  I dont think i will ever fully switch over to linux, its just too much trouble to do some of the simplest things, such as install my ATI drivers, that was just rediculous.  I love the way linux looks and feels, and will always keep it around, but for me it just dosent quite cut it.

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Totally agree with you!! I like the look and feeling of linux, but some things are just to much trouble to get it working. I just use my pc (XP) as a tool and I don't want to fix or build the tool first to be able to work with it. And if you know your way in the registry of windows it is VERY tweakable as is linux.

So for me linux is nice to lay around with.....windows is good to work with!!

[ThaOddie]

Linux is for the user who wants to understand, not for ignorant spectators.

I hate seeing posts like, I use the network configuration tool and it didn't work, or I used SWAT and samba doesn't work, or my soundcard wasn't autodetected, what do I do? I understand everyone starts somewhere, but I learned on my own, using google, and most importantly the command line.

I use Linux on my desktops and have to say I don't have any trouble. If you want to understand how things work, use Linux or unix, if you don't care, use OSX or Windows.

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Yeah, but do you use Linux to get things done or do you use linux just to get linux running??

Plain and easy a standard pc user will never be able to get linux running out of the box and that's is exactly what most people want...they want a tool to get stuff done.

[ThaOddie]

  If I use windows on the other hand, files are often left behind and registry keys don't get deleted.  Windows programs also like to scatter files around.  Some in program files, others in the windows directory, and maybe other files in random places.  Not good.  In linux (or any other unix(-like) system), there's a very specific order to things.  Program binaries in bin, system binaries in sbin, configuration files in etc, data in shared, changing data in var, libraries in lib and include files in include.

Another thing about linux is that every program on the system is available from the command line.  That takes me two (very close) click to get to and then I can do just about anything.

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That files and reg keys stay in place when you uninstall an app is not the fault of MS but of the firm that made the installer. I'm a scripter myself and work alot with WISE. If you don't script your software the right way it will leave stuff behind. If you do it the right way it will not uninstall it will do a total roll back of the system leaving it as it was before the installation

And about using the command line to start applications......in windows every application can be started with the command line: start "name of exeutable"

[Miuku.]

Plain and easy a standard pc user will never be able to get linux running out of the box and that's is exactly what most people want...they want a tool to get stuff done.

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Most "casual PC users" don't have the slightest clue how to install XP in the first place.

All they know is how to click the IE, Word or generic Office icons on the desktop or launch a game.

With suitable and tested hardware, installing a boxed product like SUSE is pretty much straightforward and clicking next for the majority of the installation. With the "out of the box" installation you'll have majority of your generic tools that you need for normal computer use in the first place.

You'll have your web browser, a word processor, spreadsheet, multimedia applications for playing music, video viewing tools etc.

That files and reg keys stay in place when you uninstall an app is not the fault of MS but of the firm that made the installer.

You should never, EVER put anything in registry. Storing information in the registry is the devil, as I recall Microsoft never meant registry to be a storage for other companies in the first place.

[ThaOddie]

You should never, EVER put anything in registry. Storing information in the registry is the devil, as I recall Microsoft never meant registry to be a storage for other companies in the first place.

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everything you install etc. is stored in the registry...without the registry you have nothing!!! So also third party software is stored in registry else it would never run. So I don't understand your remark about this!!!!

[sting3r]

.XML files work as a good alternative to the registary.

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

I've love to be able to switch to Linux, and just embrace and use it. I used to use it in my last job for server stuff where it kicked ass well and truely, but i've just become so frustrated with trying to make it work with modern hardware that I don't bother with it on my home PC any more. Case in point is the optical out port on my NF7-S v2.0 into a set of Cambridge DTT3500's.. i've never ever managed to get the rear speakers to play sound under Linux despite reading more FAQ's, and more .asoundrc files than I care to mention.

Its a wonderful OS, and great to tinker with.. I love the speed of it, and the reliability of it.. but sadly the only *NIX OS i'll ever possibly switch to will be MacOSX if/when I finally get a Mac! :(

[Miuku.]

So also third party software is stored in registry else it would never run. So I don't understand your remark about this!!!!

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ORIGINALLY it wasn't meant for storing the information, only after companies started dumping everything there it became "an accepted standard".

I prefer .ini and .XML files for storing information - stored in the directory where the program is installed. Once you remove the directory, the software is gone forever, no crap left behind in the registry causing bloat.

[ichi]

Also, on a side note, I think that as soon as people start writing a good Direct X system for Linux, it'll start to be viable for games, and I will be able to leave Windows for good.

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It's already viable for games. You have OpenGL, openAL and SDL... there's no need to implement DirectX unless you want to run Windows' games, which has nothing to do with linux' viability as gaming platform.

Anyway, there's a project to add full DirectX support to Wine. That would centainly help to increase the number of linux gamers, but what we really need is more developers to write games that run natively on linux with no DirectX requirements.

[Knight']

Well I'm sort of switching soon actually. Sort of. My laptops hardware, being a Sony, isn't wonderfully supported under Linux. The intel8x0 module for my soundcard can't support dmixing properly, which is a pain. Also, no matter what I've tried, DRI just seems to hate my chipset (i830M). The chip should be supported, but X just freezes as soon as I load DRI. That's a real bugger, as I can't run Luminosity or any other OpenGL stuff in the future without emulation.

So I'm buying a PowerBook G4 12", and maybe a 20" Apple screen --money permitting -- this summer for University. It shouldn't be difficult to fund, with a job at Tesco for the summer and Student Loan :) I really can't wait, the PowerBook even comes with BlueTooth, so I can link it with my Phone, and OSX is just so pretty! It's not particulary fast, and it was a tough decision not to go for a new Sony. But I descided that the endless hours I spend hacking around with Linux just isn't worth my time. I'll always run Gentoo on my workstation, though, Linux is always fun to mess with, I just don't want to have to do the same on a laptop.Things are always changing with Linux, software is 100% free, somthing you don't get with Windows or Mac, and I'll miss that.

[MateoGWJ]

OK.  Then let me ask this.  Do you not ACTUALLY install the programs in Linux?  And how does that front end work?  Where do the updates actually come from for Linux as far as the apt-get?  If I should post these dumb questions somewhere else, let me know.

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Noticed noone actually answered your question farme...so here goes.

You actually install programs in linux, although the method is different from distro to distro.

Debian uses apt-get, and the apt-get frontend Synaptic. Each Debian based distro has a server with a software repository that is continually updated by members of the coding team and the community.

The server's address is kept in a text file on your system, as well as a list of what you have installed. This is not the same as a registry, more like a "versions" list.

Once you fire up a terminal (or open synaptic), and type apt-get install GIMP, the script locates the file on the server, calculates the dependencies, downloads it, unpacks it, and installs it. Synaptic does the same thing, only through a graphical front end.

For people that have linux experience, terminal is faster, although I like Synaptic because it's like going to a mall: you might see something that you didn't know you wanted.

RPM based distros (Fedora, Mandrake, SUSE) can also use Synaptic, although uprpmi has evolved as a seperate solution. Not a bog fan of RPM distros, so I can't testify as to how well those solutions work.

Source based distros (Slackware, Vector, Gentoo) have their own methods of installation that are similar in idea to apt-get (Slack-get, Portage). They are both terminal based, but fast and flexible.

Hope that helps!

[markwolfe Veteran]

^^^ Maybe a good clarification to that is that Linux apps are not "installed" in the same sense that Windows apps are.

In Linux, all you need to do is put the executable in a /bin/ directory, and it can be run. The package managers do a thorough job, and add in the man pages and so forth, plus will determine if any libraries are used by your new app that you don't yet have, and will get those "dependencies" for you.

Functionally, however, Linux apps just exist on the drive and can be run.

[Mike Douglas]

.XML files work as a good alternative to the registary.

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meh, XML is very cryptic for plain file editing, and unless you need that structure, it's better to stay away from it. My favorite is delimiter seperated values (think, /etc/passwd). Very space efficent and easy to read.

[David Scaife]

meh, XML is very cryptic for plain file editing, and unless you need that structure, it's better to stay away from it. My favorite is delimiter seperated values (think, /etc/passwd). Very space efficent and easy to read.

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I think what sting3r was getting at was that XML files allow you to use the same heirarchical structure that the registry offers, therefore being a true alternative to the registry for a program. Delimited-value files would only work as an alternative under certain circumstances.

[Blue-Vision]

Would I go back to Windows....well, I never left either.

But I have to say in all fairness, Debian Sarge has me questioning whether to continue Windows development. ;)

[Zeitgeist]

I used to be in the "Linux is God" crowd, and ran it on my desktop extensively.

Windows is just better, better quality software and drivers. Most Linux software I used was usually buggy open-source projects. The desktop enviroments (KDE/GNOME) were not even close to the desktop for 2000,XP, etc. I just found it a waste of time and a hassle.

Linux is great for a small web, email, irc, whatever server but not for the desktop. And in a corporate enviroment for managing users, etc for desktop machines nothing beats 2003.

[Miuku.]

And in a corporate enviroment for managing users, etc for desktop machines nothing beats 2003.

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I truly hope you don't believe that because if you do, let me tell you I'm laughing at you right now :devil:

[Knight']

I truly hope you don't believe that because if you do, let me tell you I'm laughing at you right now  :devil:

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Why? AD is very powerful, as long as its configured properly.

[Alex Shenoy]

It's already viable for games. You have OpenGL, openAL and SDL... there's no need to implement DirectX unless you want to run Windows' games, which has nothing to do with linux' viability as gaming platform.

Anyway, there's a project to add full DirectX support to Wine. That would centainly help to increase the number of linux gamers, but what we really need is more developers to write games that run natively on linux with no DirectX requirements.

585807014[/snapback]

I was refering to pulling more support from gamers. And getting greater support for Linux. Think about it. If gamers can play all the games in Linux, and have the increased security platform, why use Windows. But I was talking specifically on the conversion of other people basis.

I also agree that developers need to write more games for linux. But, they need incentive. So, we start where we can.

--Alex

[Blue-Vision]

Quite a few games made nowadays have Linux versions.

[Alex Shenoy]

Yes I know. And I play most of them. But I was talking in a more business minded sense of getting more people to use linux. I was making an observation that, when Linux has more games, more gamers will switch to Linux.

--Alex