Longhorn new shell?

[fock neow1n]

"Sources close to Microsoft told me this week that the software giant has started a mysterious new software project called Project M, which might be a replacement for the Windows shell in Longhorn. Heading Project M is none other than Hillel Cooperman, the user experience guru who presented Longhorn's UI ideas to developers at the Microsoft Professional Developers Conference (PDC) in October 2003. Cooperman reports directly to Chris Jones, who recently returned to the Windows client team. Jones, in turn, reports directly to Will Poole, senior vice president of Windows Client Business. Project M is described internally only as Windows "shell enhancements," a mysteriously vague description. The project is secret even to most people at Microsoft and won't likely be added to Longhorn until the beta 2 or even the Release Candidate 0 (RC0) release. One source theorized that Project M is to Longhorn as Luna was to Windows XP: Early XP (then known as Whistler) betas used a UI called Watercolor that Microsoft eventually dropped. The UI in today's Longhorn builds, which we'll soon see in beta 1, could likewise be pushed aside for something more visually impressive."

Source: Paul Thurrott's WinInfo Short Takes

A new shell? Has anyone heard of this?

[#Michael]

A new shell? Has anyone heard of this?

586189219[/snapback]

1st I heard of this was paul's short takes this week. SOunds interesting. Hope to hear more of this as time goes on. I wonder if this is a protype thing that may/may not make it into longhorn

[wutang01]

Interesting ... but they'll still keep the Glass effect, right?

[trek]

I liked watercolor better than luna...

[Prince21]

This has been around some time the news aeroxp where one of the last to give this info so no credit to them

[golazo]

cool, i hope they keep the black look while maintaining its sexyness

[zhangm Supervisor]

I actually hope for some sort of light silver or grey scheme.

The difficulty with darker themes (Aero) is that nothing else is designed to complement them. Humans just don't work on dark environments. You have MS Word, MS Excel and 98% of the web displaying black text on a white backdrop. That sort of contrast will simply do your eyes in, in a short amount of time. It is very visually fatiguing, no matter how cool or awesome Aero/Glass looks like.

Microsoft needs to get away from the big bulky Start Menu and especially the taskbar. Taskbar was fine in the days of Windows95 because no one had enough RAM to have 31 different program windows open. But now we have Winamp/WMP/iTunes, Photoshop/Gimp, Firefox/7 IE windows/Opera/, 3 Word documents, 1 MS Access document, 2 spreadsheets, 5 MSN Messenger conversations, 2 mail messages to respond to in Outlook, and you're trying to transfer files over the network, using 2 Windows Explorer windows to navigate. Your taskbar buttons are 10 pixels wide and only show the icon and first letter of each open window. You are in Organization Hell.

[DomZ]

I actually hope for some sort of light silver or grey scheme.

The difficulty with darker themes (Aero) is that nothing else is designed to complement them.  Humans just don't work on dark environments.  You have MS Word, MS Excel and 98% of the web displaying black text on a white backdrop.  That sort of contrast will simply do your eyes in, in a short amount of time.  It is very visually fatiguing, no matter how cool or awesome Aero/Glass looks like. 

Microsoft needs to get away from the big bulky Start Menu and especially the taskbar.  Taskbar was fine in the days of Windows95 because no one had enough RAM to have 31 different program windows open.  But now we have Winamp/WMP/iTunes, Photoshop/Gimp, Firefox/7 IE windows/Opera/, 3 Word documents, 1 MS Access document, 2 spreadsheets, 5 MSN Messenger conversations, 2 mail messages to respond to in Outlook, and you're trying to transfer files over the network, using 2 Windows Explorer windows to navigate.  Your taskbar buttons are 10 pixels wide and only show the icon and first letter of each open window.  You are in Organization Hell.

586190398[/snapback]

ROFL! 10 pixels wide. Cracked me up.

[Pc_Madness]

I actually hope for some sort of light silver or grey scheme.

The difficulty with darker themes (Aero) is that nothing else is designed to complement them.  Humans just don't work on dark environments.  You have MS Word, MS Excel and 98% of the web displaying black text on a white backdrop.  That sort of contrast will simply do your eyes in, in a short amount of time.  It is very visually fatiguing, no matter how cool or awesome Aero/Glass looks like. 

Microsoft needs to get away from the big bulky Start Menu and especially the taskbar.  Taskbar was fine in the days of Windows95 because no one had enough RAM to have 31 different program windows open.  But now we have Winamp/WMP/iTunes, Photoshop/Gimp, Firefox/7 IE windows/Opera/, 3 Word documents, 1 MS Access document, 2 spreadsheets, 5 MSN Messenger conversations, 2 mail messages to respond to in Outlook, and you're trying to transfer files over the network, using 2 Windows Explorer windows to navigate.  Your taskbar buttons are 10 pixels wide and only show the icon and first letter of each open window.  You are in Organization Hell.

586190398[/snapback]

Yeah, I hear you. Dunno what the best solution is though. I hated taskbar grouping in XP (the extra click). You just needed more room, I guess thats where the Sidebar would have come in handy.

I guess you could have it group to large icons or something and have hovering over that appear with a small popup menu instantly showing all the windows.. either like on XP or as another taskbar above the usual one..

[vcv]

Good. The shell is one area they need an overhaul on.

Here comes the comments about MS dropping features and then adding more..

[MonkeyClaw Veteran]

I actually hope for some sort of light silver or grey scheme.

The difficulty with darker themes (Aero) is that nothing else is designed to complement them.  Humans just don't work on dark environments.  You have MS Word, MS Excel and 98% of the web displaying black text on a white backdrop.  That sort of contrast will simply do your eyes in, in a short amount of time.  It is very visually fatiguing, no matter how cool or awesome Aero/Glass looks like. 

Microsoft needs to get away from the big bulky Start Menu and especially the taskbar.  Taskbar was fine in the days of Windows95 because no one had enough RAM to have 31 different program windows open.  But now we have Winamp/WMP/iTunes, Photoshop/Gimp, Firefox/7 IE windows/Opera/, 3 Word documents, 1 MS Access document, 2 spreadsheets, 5 MSN Messenger conversations, 2 mail messages to respond to in Outlook, and you're trying to transfer files over the network, using 2 Windows Explorer windows to navigate.  Your taskbar buttons are 10 pixels wide and only show the icon and first letter of each open window.  You are in Organization Hell.

586190398[/snapback]

expose ;)

j/k but yea thats one of the big issues i had with windows and always have had, it just gets annoying when u have all of that open, dunno how they can fix it but it is an issue that def needs addressing. and u are absolutly right about dark environments, it almost has a psychological effect, like depressing in a sense. white or bright themes are nice, even the dreaded green and blue of xp was a bit pleasing to the eye.

[DaveLegg Developer]

Microsoft needs to get away from the big bulky Start Menu and especially the taskbar.  Taskbar was fine in the days of Windows95 because no one had enough RAM to have 31 different program windows open.  But now we have Winamp/WMP/iTunes, Photoshop/Gimp, Firefox/7 IE windows/Opera/, 3 Word documents, 1 MS Access document, 2 spreadsheets, 5 MSN Messenger conversations, 2 mail messages to respond to in Outlook, and you're trying to transfer files over the network, using 2 Windows Explorer windows to navigate.  Your taskbar buttons are 10 pixels wide and only show the icon and first letter of each open window.  You are in Organization Hell.

586190398[/snapback]

Right click taskbar -> uncheck "lock the taskbar",

Drag taskbar to left or right of screen, resize to taste :p

Right click taskbar -> check "lock the taskbar"

instantly more space for open programs

[DG55]

I dont think there is a better way to organise different windows/programs. Noone else has done anything better.

[waurbind]

I dont think there is a better way to organise different windows/programs. Noone else has done anything better.

586192236[/snapback]

i think the apple dock is alot better.

although i rarly run into organization hell just becuase of my extra monitor

[TwIzTiD_Juggalo]

just because noone has done anything better doesn't mean it can't be done. you always have a beginning, maybe this is a beginning of a new 'good' thing.

[MonkeyClaw Veteran]

I dont think there is a better way to organise different windows/programs. Noone else has done anything better.

586192236[/snapback]

yea the dock and expose works much much better than what windows has done so far so i would say they have done a better job. im not trying to sound like a troll but i mean its true imo.

[joeydoo]

Isn't this the vector based shell that longhorn is meant have. It makes every graphic etc the same size on your screen irrespective of the size of your monitor or the resolution. They have to come up with some clever way of displaying bitmaps/web pics but it will basically mean that finally websites can fill your screen etc. Better monitors will have finer details than cheaper ones.

[Angel Blue01]

Well, I'm not replacing this monitor until it burns out -neither will anyone else I know.

[pdog]

i think expose does better than explorer, i think they will eventaully make something like this, or a 3rd party will do something like it with thier new graphics specs and apis.

[zhangm Supervisor]

Right click taskbar -> uncheck "lock the taskbar",

Drag taskbar to left or right of screen, resize to taste  :p

Right click taskbar -> check "lock the taskbar"

instantly more space for open programs

586191712[/snapback]

The problem with your "quick fix" is that it isn't one.

You flick your cursor either to the top or bottom of the screen, and under ideal conditions, you get a wide target to hit. In the screenshot, I have 150px of button to click on.

If you have your taskbar on the side, a la Sidebar, when you flick your mouse over to the left or right side, you're presented with a 22px wide target to hit. While we're at it, we might as well shrink the captionbar buttons to 6x6 pixels and turn your desktop into the equivalent of a shooting range.

Also, Windows organizes the taskbar buttons by chronological order (and then by parent program). We interpret chronological order more easily in horizontal format. When's the last time you saw a vertically oriented timeline? The point is, your mind has an easier time connecting where a window is on the taskbar, based on when it was opened if its horizontally oriented, rather than if it were vertically oriented.

I agree that OSX has definitely one-upped (more like twenty-upped) Microsoft in usability. The OSX dock always maintains some visual cue as to which window is which, and it never shrinks the text description that identifies each window. You never see "Sa..." when you hover over a dock icon, unless that's what the damn window is named.

Minimize in place, along with Expose, definitely help. Microsoft has had this basic function in its OS for years. Try Winkey + D, or Winkey + M, and ALT + Tab. They just got lazy, figured the taskbar was enough, and quit innovating their features. Incredibly stupid move on their part. Now they're behind the times as far as organizing all the information that we deal with today.

[joeydoo]

Well, I'm not replacing this monitor until it burns out -neither will anyone else I know.

586192627[/snapback]

Maybe I didn't explain it well. The monitor or the resolution will not dictate the size of the UI. That means if you have a flat panel or a CRT which can only do 1280x1024 then you will be able to increase/decrease the size of windows, buttons, taskbar, video, webbrowers to whatever you want. You can look at the same exact screen as some one with a flat panel with 2560x1600. Their monitor will just be of a higher detail. That means if you want more screen real-estate you can have it, but if you're old and need everything bigger then you can increase it. That will mean you can keep your monitor longer, make better use of it, and then wait until it burns out.

It will also apply to individual "windows" so you can shrink windows down and put them on top of something you are working on. I think it will be the only thing that puts longhorn ahead of OSX. Unless apple make OSX vector based in cheetah. They will make the change as well.

[LTD]

The problem with your "quick fix" is that it isn't one.

You flick your cursor either to the top or bottom of the screen, and under ideal conditions, you get a wide target to hit.  In the screenshot, I have 150px of button to click on.

If you have your taskbar on the side, a la Sidebar, when you flick your mouse over to the left or right side, you're presented with a 22px wide target to hit.  While we're at it, we might as well shrink the captionbar buttons to 6x6 pixels and turn your desktop into the equivalent of a shooting range. 

Also, Windows organizes the taskbar buttons by chronological order (and then by parent program).  We interpret chronological order more easily in horizontal format.  When's the last time you saw a vertically oriented timeline?  The point is, your mind has an easier time connecting where a window is on the taskbar, based on when it was opened if its horizontally oriented, rather than if it were vertically oriented. 

I agree that OSX has definitely one-upped (more like twenty-upped) Microsoft in usability.  The OSX dock always maintains some visual cue as to which window is which, and it never shrinks the text description that identifies each window.  You never see "Sa..." when you hover over a dock icon, unless that's what the damn window is named.

Minimize in place, along with Expose, definitely help.  Microsoft has had this basic function in its OS for years.  Try Winkey + D, or Winkey + M, and ALT + Tab.  They just got lazy, figured the taskbar was enough, and quit innovating their features.  Incredibly stupid move on their part.  Now they're behind the times as far as organizing all the information that we deal with today.

586192731[/snapback]

Realtivity: What visual style are you using? Looks good . . .

[MonkeyClaw Veteran]

i think its the new inspiratse by stefanka

[DG55]

Why ever is expose better than the taskbar? Its simply cumbersome, if you have loads of programs open you have to reach and hit the key, and attempt to find the window you want in all the mess. With windows its a simple point and click. So you can use those corner hotspot things, although when you start going into them by accident their just an annoyance.

Its not really any better, but the whole expose thing just doesnt flow very well.

Also did somone say that the taskbar takes up too much space? What about the dock? That takes up more space vertically, even at its smallest setting (in which you cant see anything).

[fukachu]

DG55 as a mac and windows suer i will say that the task bar does have some good features however i would prefer expose oevr it any day.

lets say you have 3 files with very very similar file names the only different is a date at the end. eg. end of year financial reports for innovation 12.12.05 and then each one has a different date.

using the task bar most of that will get cut off. however a quick press of a button and they all pup and then you can click the correct version you want by look at its contents and its name.

you complain about the fact of having to press a key but it only takes a moment and you can customize your shortcut ket to be any combination you like that may be easier for you. not only that but if you have a multi button mouse like the mx1000 you can set the extra buttons to have expose functions.

expose not only displays everything on the screen but with a different shortcut key you can open all windows of a specific program. eg word documents. so you might have 30 windows open, 5 of them are word documents. and you want to swap to another word document, simple press the relevant shortcut key and you have infront of you all 5 documents. and on my 20" screen that allows for all of them to be pretty much clear to read. it truely is a helpful feature.

also os x has the alt tab function for flicking between programs.

as for the dock.. that can get pretty same small and can hide away also. with tweaks it can sit on the corner or whatever you like. also the magnification allows you to have it incredibly small but still able to focus over it and see what is going on.

again im not trying to be a troll.. but i really believe that implementing an expose feature into longhorn would be a very nice idea.. it would sure make things easier for people with many documents open. i often have 8 or 9 notepads open with different versions of files with very similar names its only by visually identifying them that i know which one i need. in those moment when im on a windows computer im crying out for expose. alt tabbing through them all just doesnt show a big enough version for me in the preview.