DSLR recommendations?

[Xtreme $niper]

Alright well if Nikon is out of the question at this point, let me make a suggestion to you. I havent had any good experiences with the 350d, so I would really recommend you take a look at the 20D. Appearantly its a better bang for the buck.

The 350d kit lens does suck... Your best bet is to go to the store and actually try all these cameras. Pick them up, load your memory card in, and play around with it. Try everything and anything, they wont care and they shouldnt because you need to make the best buying decision for yourself. When I went to the store to get my DSLR I had my mind fully set on getting a Canon. But then I tested it out and I was disappointed. I directly compared the Nikon D70 to the Canon 350d and one of the things I immediately noticed was that the 350d did not fit in my hand (and I dont have big hands) completely and it felt like a toy, just like the reviews had said. It didnt feel solid, as if it was going to break if I placed it on the table too roughly. The D70 was completely solid as rock, and performed with professional style photos just by pointing and shooting right off the bat.

Anyways, your best bet is to go to the store and try them out. Be sure to take a memory card along with you so you can take it back home and compare images on your computer if you need to.

[Dazzla Veteran]

It's not out of the question, far from it. Like you said, every review has praised the ergonomics and UI of the Nikon over the Canon. I'm still reading up a lot, it's a hard decision. I don't think I'll be disappointed with whatever DSLR I get. I'd feel awkward going into a shop and asking to try the cameras, especially seeing as I'd end up getting them off eBay for a hell of a lot cheaper, "Hi, can I try these cameras? Excellent, I'm not gonna buy them from you though, I'll go grab them off the net now for ?150 less!":DD

Anyone own the *ist? Or is it not even in the same league as the Canons and Nikons?

[BroChaos Veteran]

nobody else is really in the same leagues. is it a good camera? sure...but i wouldn't recommend it.

i don't think you can really rank one UI better than the other. it's like comparing windows vs. linux vs. osx. whichever one you are familiar with, you will like better.

i use my 300d all the time, and can change any option in a matter of seconds. but when i fire up the d100 at work, i couldn't even set the date if i tried.

[Dazzla Veteran]

One thing I've noticed is that the 350D as a body only isn't as easy to come by on eBay as other cams as body only. Is there a reason for that? I wanna pick up the cam from here, they've got good prices and will reimburse any customs fees. They've got the D70s as body only, plus extra battery and some other stuff for a bargain ?464. I'm gonna email him and ask him if he can do the 350D as body only.

I think I'll pick up the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 EX DC lens that was linked to earlier, I've read some reviews and most are favourable, couple of downsides that were cropping up were no USM and no DoF scale. Looking at the sample images, there were some nice close ups of flowers etc (which I enjoy taking) so one question I have is what's the need for macro lenses? Is it for real super close up images? The normal lenses I looked at had a minimum focus distance of like 11", that's not particulary far away. Also, what's the deal with prime lenses? Like just 50MM lenses, where's the advantage over something like a 18-50 lens?

[former1]

Hi Dazzla and all :p ,

I went to my local camera store last week and held the 350D and D70 (wasnt able to play with them due to the fact the batteries were flat >.<). Anyhoo I fell inlove with the 350D fitted in my hands like a glove, however I'm not very tall at 1m73cm heh. But from what I've read and seen I hope to be an owner of a 350D on the 1st of June ^^. But I'm going to hijack quickly (and I apologise in advance), but does anyone know a good lens for portrait shots? Sort of like the ones sanctified takes? I've been looking at the EFS 17-85 F4-5.6 but wasn't to sure, Thanks! (sorry once again Dazzla!)

[ForeverUnknown]

Also, what's the deal with prime lenses? Like just 50MM lenses, where's the advantage over something like a 18-50 lens?

586231354[/snapback]

Zoom or Prime Lens?

Generally affordable zoom lenses have smaller maximum apertures than most fixed focal length lenses.

Prime lenses are generally lighter than zoom lenses, but a zoom lens will possibly replace two or three prime lenses, and be lighter, cheaper and less bulky than three lenses.

Prime lenses usually have less distortion than zoom lenses.

When photographing a rectangular subject, the image almost always will either bulge slightly out in the middle giving a barrel effect, or slightly in, resembling a pincushion. Lenses with 'good drawing' are those that have low distortion. The effects of distortion are usually only noticeable with subjects with straight lines - such as most buildings, seldom with portraits etc.

But I'm going to hijack quickly (and I apologise in advance), but does anyone know a good lens for portrait shots?

Check out the Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM. Turns out to be a 80mm lens. Read some reviews about it at fredmiranda.com

[Dazzla Veteran]

Ah, I saw a 50mm prime with f1.4 (edit, that'll be the one you just linked to) but that sigma has 2.8 all the way through the focal range, geometry is good at anything above 2.8 as well if the reviews are to be believed. Looks like the main lens for me.

It's looking like I'm gonna pick up the 350D, I'm gonna wait on the email reply regarding a body only version, if he can't do it then I'll probably pick up this package:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...item=7531988545

?624.99 for the 350D, lens kit, spare battery, 2GB Hi Speed CFII, lens cleaning kit and memory card holder. Yeah the last 2 are pointless but hey:DD It's the best package deal I've found so far. I'm gonna email him and ask what brand of CF it is. One of the body only auctions I was tracking was this one, it's at almost ?500 already, so I'm getting a lot for the extra ?125 from Digital Rev. Of course I'll pick up the Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 EX DC as well, any other little essentials I'll need to pick up? I didn't see a lens hood mentioned in any of the eBay auctions I'll be buying from, obviously that's an extra, any filters that I should pick up?

Edit, I also thought I'd post this here. I hope the knowledgable people answering the questions don't turn their nose up at it. Yes it's incredibly basic but it covers a lot of the meanings and will hopefully encourage more people to give DSLR a try and realise it's not as scary as it might seem at first.

http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/enjoydslr/

[former1]

Big thanks to Dazzla making this thread, and foreverunknown for being so helpful ^^. If canon gave comission, foreverunknown (i'd say FU..but erm :p) would be rich :p I'm getting a canon EOS 350D Next week :D (and i'm getting the 1.4, due to the extra shutter blade ^^).

Thanks to all again :)

[ForeverUnknown]

I didn't see a lens hood mentioned in any of the eBay auctions I'll be buying from, obviously that's an extra, any filters that I should pick up?

586232936[/snapback]

You should at least pick up a UV filter, but a circular polarizing filter, NOT LINEAR, is also nice to have. Circular pol filters can be a little pricey though. I picked up a 52mm CPF, and it cost $35 while the UV filter was $15. Make sure you find out what diameter you lens is before you purchase the filters.

You can find out what hood is manufactured for each lens by going to the Canon site and checking the accessories for each lens.

EDIT

Sigma's usually come with a lens hood, so that one should. Ask them.

Edited July 18, 2005 by ForeverUnknown

[spacey]

haha check out this D70 propaganda :) represent!

http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/d70_user_testimonials

seriously though, its a good camera.

[Dazzla Veteran]

I had a play with the D70s and the 350D today, my only worry about the 350D turned out to be a reality. The size of it. It's smaller than my FZ20 and when a heavier lens was attached it seemed quite unstable. I never took any photos, just played around in the menus. I had no problem with either, although the I preferred the canon menus and dials/buttons a tiny bit. The build quality seemed good on the 350D but it was just the sheer compactness of it, it's like your fingers are really gripping it, as opposed to the camera sitting in my hand like the D70s. The FZ20 felt similar, but the gap between the grip and the lens was larger, I could feel the lens with my right hand at times when gripping the 350D.

So now I'm at a loss, everything I've read said technically the 350D is slightly ahead, especially in terms of noise in high ISO shooting and sharpness (not overly sharp). At the same time I'd have to pick up the 350D with lens kit and that's far inferior to the Nikon kit. So now I'm kind of back where I started, except I might start considering the 20D but it's looking more and more likely to be the D70s. To be honest I don't think it would matter which DSLR I picked up because the 350D and the D70s are top cameras, but here I go again :/

Edit, reading up again, I keep hearing things about the NEF format that Nikon use instead of RAW. Like it's not really uncompressed and it loses some highlight details and they're encrypting the white balance so nothing but the Nikon software can alter it. I downloaded a sample NEF from a D1 and I could alter the white balance in CS2 but I've no idea what it's like with the D70s.

[Xtreme $niper]

I take all my pictures in NEF (RAW) and its perfectly fine here. I have no idea where you read up on the loss of details. They are encrypting the white balance in newer cameras, I do not believe the D70s is included in that because it is essentially the same as the D70 and the D70 is NOT encrypted.

I found this site a few days ago and I found it to be an excellent read:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/compa...s/D70/index.htm

I also found this D70 vs 20D article, very detailed:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/20dd70.htm

Also this D70 vs Canon in general:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/20dd70.htm

And also in general this site on the whole:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm

Hope that provides some insight.

[Dazzla Veteran]

Yeah, I've read that site inside and out :D The lossless NEF stuff I was reading was here:

http://www.majid.info/mylos/weblog/2004/05/02-1.html

Here's what the NEF I downloaded looks like straight in PS CS2, that's without any plugins or anything. I've not read much about Nikon Capture, no idea how much it costs either. What do you use for maniputing your NEFs?

[Xtreme $niper]

Well I dont have Nikon Capture because it costs 99$ USD, but the camera does come with other Nikon photo editing tools that I didnt even bother installing. I use Photoshop CS2 for my editing. I load Adobe Bridge, load multiple NEF files at a time, go through each one and edit to my hearts content. Usually I fix up the white balance (not often), saturation, exposure, contrast, brightness, etc... Mainly what you see in that pic is what it normally looks like. I then save it as the highest quality JPEG possible (because I do plan on posting these on my photoblog) and I open it in Photoshop CS2, resize it, sharpen it, edit levels and colours if needed, and save as a slightly lower quality jpeg only because I need to have small file sizes for the web while keeping detail.

That tends to be my typical workflow. None of that hours on end editing that others do... I dont understand what can take hours to edit in a photo, but I guess I'll learn eventually.

The NEF format is nothing to be scared of, its just another format for RAW. As long as you have any program like Capture One, or Photoshop, or the software that came with your camera you are fine.

[robniep]

Oh try not to buy Canon lenses that are EF-S.  They only work with the 300D, 350D, and 20D, so if you upgrade you're camera body later, you might not be able to use the lens.

586222238[/snapback]

Are you insane? Why wouldn't he want an EF-S lens? Canon only states that because 35mm cameras can't use EF-S lenses but only EF lenses. They don't want you to buy a lens and ask why it doesn't work.

[Dazzla Veteran]

Well I dont have Nikon Capture because it costs 99$ USD, but the camera does come with other Nikon photo editing tools that I didnt even bother installing. I use Photoshop CS2 for my editing. I load Adobe Bridge, load multiple NEF files at a time, go through each one and edit to my hearts content. Usually I fix up the white balance (not often), saturation, exposure, contrast, brightness, etc... Mainly what you see in that pic is what it normally looks like. I then save it as the highest quality JPEG possible (because I do plan on posting these on my photoblog) and I open it in Photoshop CS2, resize it, sharpen it, edit levels and colours if needed, and save as a slightly lower quality jpeg only because I need to have small file sizes for the web while keeping detail.

That tends to be my typical workflow. None of that hours on end editing that others do... I dont understand what can take hours to edit in a photo, but I guess I'll learn eventually.

The NEF format is nothing to be scared of, its just another format for RAW. As long as you have any program like Capture One, or Photoshop, or the software that came with your camera you are fine.

586239306[/snapback]

Cool, that's encouraging to hear :) It's looking more and more likely I'll be getting a D70s, talk about swings and roundabouts!

[Adnan248999]

In that case this topic can be locked.

[Dazzla Veteran]

I wanna buy this tomorrow so I can have it before the weekend, one last thing nagging me is the encrypting NEF issue:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D70S/D70SA15.HTM

Proprietary/encrypted RAW file format hides as-shot white balance information from third-party software. (Bibble can decipher it though.)

I can't find reports of anyone owning a D70s regarding this, if it comes to it I'll just buy the Nikon Capture software if CS2 is going to have an issue with it, but I'd like to know before I buy the camera :(

[robniep]

Nikon is good but look at lenses that you can buy with Canon. Which in my opinion does a better job with sigma, and tamron.

Check the prices of lenses of Nikon and compare, read about that a little. The camera doesn't matter as much as the glass thats in front of it.

[Adnan248999]

Nikon is good but look at lenses that you can buy with Canon. Which in my opinion does a better job with sigma, and tamron.

Check the prices of lenses of Nikon and compare, read about that a little. The camera doesn't matter as much as the glass thats in front of it.

586243740[/snapback]

Quite right.

I recently got a sigma for my canon and it's producing fantastic results.

[ForeverUnknown]

I wanna buy this tomorrow so I can have it before the weekend, one last thing nagging me is the encrypting NEF issue:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D70S/D70SA15.HTM

I can't find reports of anyone owning a D70s regarding this, if it comes to it I'll just buy the Nikon Capture software if CS2 is going to have an issue with it, but I'd like to know before I buy the camera :(

586243736[/snapback]

I just read on Adobe's site that PS should be able to open NEF.

http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/329599.html

http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/326616.html

One of the reasons why I bought the 350D was that I wanted to upgrade to a 20D or hopefully a EOS-1D Mark II in the future, so I needed to buy lenses that would be compatible.

The Nikon D70s is a great choice. Just make sure you get good lenses.

[Dazzla Veteran]

Yeah, I've downloaded and opened NEF files fine in CS2, just not tried a NEF which encrypts the white balance. I've never thought about the future upgrade either, keeping in mind what Brochaos said "...either way, keep in mind the body is disposable, and you will be tossing it away in 5 years. it's the glass that really counts...", this is too hard :/ My 2 choices are the D70 with standard lens kit or the 350D with the Sigma 18-50mm F/2.8 EX DC; both with 2GB Lexar 80x CF, D70s is ?826 and the 350D is ?955, quite a bit difference but then I guess the Sigma lens is better...

[ForeverUnknown]

You can always get the Canon BG-E3 battery grip later on. It holds two battery packs or 6 AA, has controls for vertical shooting (aperature, shutter, etc), and it'll also add weight to the body and extra size for those with bigger hands.

[BroChaos Veteran]

yeah, here's my example of getting into dslr.

previous cameras: canon. so i'm completely familiar with the menus.

what i'm gonna shoot: surfing, sports, nature. canon owns everyone in terms of long telephoto lenses.

final images: like canon's smoothness, less processing, lower noise.

body: d70 wasn't out yet ;) keep in mind, canon is the leader. nikon makes good cameras, but it's always in response to something canon does. i picked up the 300d. i knew it didn't have all the features, i knew it wasn't the best dslr around.

am i still happy with my purchase? definitely. i learned more than i ever dreamed i would. the pictures are great. i like the canon system.

[DigitalN.]

whatever body you are going I would really recommend picking up a 28-70 lens. a great all around lens, considering it is 2.8 throughout.