DMCA regulations

[Crimson Behelit]

If people love the show then they shouldnt download it and show support for the creators by buying it when it comes out, forget that whimpy "im only previewing it before i buy it" crap. Preview it if they release video clips on the website.

586271551[/snapback]

Correction. They may download it siince they are buying it.

[Veedems Veteran]

Correction.  They may download it siince they are buying it.

586271598[/snapback]

Incorrect. Even owning a legal copy of the disc does not grant one permission to obtain it, also, via illegal means.

[Tim Dorr Veteran]

Correction.  They may download it siince they are buying it.

586271598[/snapback]

Just because you own a DVD doesn't mean you can walk into a store and steal a 2nd copy.

[Crimson Behelit]

Incorrect. Even owning a legal copy of the disc does not grant one permission to obtain it, also, via illegal means.

586271667[/snapback]

Are you implying that using Bittorrent is illegal? It isn't illegal at all. If I own a copy of the disc I fail to see how downloading it equates to obtaining it illegally

Owning a license to watch a movie also allows you the opporunity to back it up (without violating any laws/agreements). Downloading it is the only method those without the required hardware to back-up can obtain a back up.

[Dazog]

Just because you own a DVD doesn't mean you can walk into a store and steal a 2nd copy.

586271673[/snapback]

But IT doesnt give the companies a right to tell me I can't make a copy of it so the original doesn't get scratched and quit working, instead of rebuying it again.

[Crimson Behelit]

Just because you own a DVD doesn't mean you can walk into a store and steal a 2nd copy.

586271673[/snapback]

Woah! That's totally out of context. Downloading ≠ (does not equal) stealing...

You purchase a license to view a movie when 'purchasing a movie'. That license is completely valid regardless of the source of media (a physcial DVD vs data digitally stored on pcs).

If I own it, I can download it.[/size]

Edited July 26, 2005 by joekr

[Am_I_Evil]

so i can make copies for myself legally....can rip it for personal use on my own computer legally...but if i own it and don't want to go through the trouble of ripping it i can't download it and have the exact same files i would have if i ripeed it myself....

how does that make any sense?

[Ji@nBing]

Just because you own a DVD doesn't mean you can walk into a store and steal a 2nd copy.

586271673[/snapback]

Completely different thing. If you walk into the store and take a copy, you are depriving that store from selling said copy. By downloading it, you are dowloading a digital copy so no property is lost. When you buy a DVD, you are buying the media it is on and a licence to use the content on it. Since you already have a license to use the content on the DVD, there is nothing wrong with downloading it for storage on your PC IMO (and yes, I know it's technically illegal to do so but really, who cares? No one is losing ANYTHING and the company got thier money from you).

[fkid]

Nothing wrong (at least morally, in my opinion) with downloading for previewing purposes. It's not like this movie took tons of money and work to make anyway, unlike some movies in theaters (100+ million). Anyway, if I download something and it's not good, then I'm very happy not to have payed for it. If it is good enough, I will purchase it.

[ZiGGA]

Technically it's illegal to download as it's not even been released onto the shelves YET therefor obtaining it via Bittorrent or P2P networks means it's illegal.

If you don't think so then that's upto yourself and those wanting to download it, but I think people should respect the rules of the site and not discuss certain issues based on warez.

If you're downloading it then do so but you know don't make a meal out of something. I think it's sad it's gotten out, But still there'll be many people who'll buy it just because they love the show.

BTW I'm not a Family Guy fan but... BUT! I would like to see this movie, it may sway me, anything is worth a watch! :yes:

[kylejn]

Incorrect. Even owning a legal copy of the disc does not grant one permission to obtain it, also, via illegal means.

586271667[/snapback]

Are you serious? So you're saying that if I go the store and buy a CD, then go online and download that same CD, that I can't do that?

Christ. Boggles the mind that something that is so obviously OK would be illegal. Assuming I'm understanding this correctly, might as well make food illegal too. Makes just as much sense, the way I see it.

EDIT: In regards to the FG movie, as much as I would love to see it, and as many ways I have of obtaining it (just like everybody else), I may have to actually pass on downloading it. I mean, the show already got cancelled a few times. I don't want to do anything that might cause it to get cancelled again.

[Crimson Behelit]

Are you serious? So you're saying that if I go the store and buy a CD, then go online and download that same CD, that I can't do that?

Christ. Boggles the mind that something that is so obviously OK would be illegal. Assuming I'm understanding this correctly, might as well make food illegal too. Makes just as much sense, the way I see it.

586271732[/snapback]

I believe bangbang is misinformed on that particular issue.

[Veedems Veteran]

I believe bangbang is misinformed on that particular issue.

586271742[/snapback]

Um, no I'm not. You can have a subscription to medication, but buying it from a guy on the street is still illegal. In the ned, only authorized dealers have the right to distribute copyrighted material. The people you download the files from are not authorizzed to distribute the material since they neither own the copyrights nor the permission to distribute the material. Downloading from these distributors includes you in the crime. Read the DMCA and standard copyright laws.

[anthony]

I believe bangbang is misinformed on that particular issue.

586271742[/snapback]

I believe you are misinformed. That would mean if you buy an album on iTunes you can walk into Best Buy and grab yourself a copy. No, that's stealing. Instead, you can make a copy of what you own, not take someone elses copy.

[Am_I_Evil]

I believe you are misinformed. That would mean if you buy an album on iTunes you can walk into Best Buy and grab yourself a copy. No, that's stealing. Instead, you can make a copy of what you own, not take someone elses copy.

586271766[/snapback]

no....stealing the actual album from a store is stealing someone's chance to own the license to that music, it is stealing the album...how is downloading an album you already own stealing anything....you are twisting it around in a way that makes no sense....when you purchase a cd you purchase the license to listen to that music...therefore you can have copies for personal use....how is me downloading the CD after i already own it any different than me ripping it myself, or copying it onto another CD (or tape)?

the same arguments were made when cassette tapes came out...the industry was complaing that people would just trade copies of albums and that it would hurt album sales.... :blink:

that was a stupid argument, and so is this....if you own a cd/DVD/VHS/cassette you are allowed to have copies for personal use....it only becomes illegal when you try to profit off of them....

Edited July 26, 2005 by Am_I_Evil

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

I believe the DCMA is a load of bullcrap.

[Crimson Behelit]

I believe you are misinformed. That would mean if you buy an album on iTunes you can walk into Best Buy and grab yourself a copy. No, that's stealing. Instead, you can make a copy of what you own, not take someone elses copy.

586271766[/snapback]

That isn't the same thing at all. You are suggesting that a license to listen to 'album x' allows you to walk into a store and steal the CD it was pressed on.

And bangbang, right in the middle of the copyright section of the DMCA is the following

`? OTHER RIGHTS, ETC., NOT AFFECTED- (1) Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title.

Backing-up anything one holds a license to would fall under fair use. If one's[bonly>[/b]> method to back something up is to download it, that falls under fair use.

[Veedems Veteran]

That isn't the same thing at all.  You are suggesting that a license to listen to 'album x'  allows you to walk into a store and steal the CD it was pressed on.

And bangbang, right in the middle of the copyright section of the DMCA is the following

Backing-up anything one holds a license to would fall under fair use.  If one's only method to back something up is to download it, that falls under fair use.

586271806[/snapback]

The DMCA comes into play, though. Technically, the software used to rip DVD's has be deemed illegal (remember dvdcopyx?). Also, as soon as the user distributes the file and you download it, the crime moves past the DMCA and onto federal copyright grounds. Also, remember, unless you're a leech, you do upload while downloading meaning you are distributing the copyrighted works also.

[theresiststance2003]

*Yawn.* Do people actually still debate piracy as if there's some all-powerful solution? Piracy will never go away as long as games, movies, music, etc. are so overpriced. I don't know about anyone else, but I for one am sick of reading pointless debates over people who support this or oppose that. The problem in question in this thread is not piracy, but rather the Neowin ToS. No one here can to crap to stop piracy, so the bickering is rather pointless. The talk of how to obtain warez and what not is another story, as it violates Neowin's rules. Piracy will live on forever until the companies see how they're screwing themselves out of sales by insanely overpriced goods, some of which aren't worth the medium they're printed on... so please Neowin, I beg you.. stop the arguements and please let's all get along?

STEWIE FOR GOVERNOR!

[Tim Dorr Veteran]

That isn't the same thing at all.  You are suggesting that a license to listen to 'album x'  allows you to walk into a store and steal the CD it was pressed on.

And bangbang, right in the middle of the copyright section of the DMCA is the following

Backing-up anything one holds a license to would fall under fair use.  If one's only method to back something up is to download it, that falls under fair use.

586271806[/snapback]

Downloading isn't making a backup. You're obtaining a copy from another user. Your license entitles you to a backup of your copy, not someone else's.

Besides, no one owns this DVD yet. It's all on pre-order. They have not been given their discs and have not obtained their license to use the disc for personal exhibitions. No one has the legal right to own this except the copyright holder and anyone they've given license to hold a copy thus far.

[Crimson Behelit]

Besides, no one owns this DVD yet. It's all on pre-order. They have not been given their discs and have not obtained their license to use the disc for personal exhibitions. No one has the legal right to own this except the copyright holder and anyone they've given license to hold a copy thus far.

Agreed... I'm not debating that fact at all. I'm asserting that downloading a video isn't illegal in 100% of all situations.

Downloading isn't making a backup. You're obtaining a copy from another user. Your license entitles you to a backup of your copy, not someone else's.

That is totally up for interpretation, as neither the DMCA nor any other copyright documents clearly state that as a fact. If you suggest otherwise, I'd like to see a link or some other source.

[Meshuggah]

Agreed... I'm not debating that fact at all.? I'm asserting that downloading a videoisn't> illegal in 100% of all situations.

That is totally up for interpretation, as neither the DMCA nor any other copyright documents clearly state that as a fact.? If you suggest otherwise, I'd like to see a link or some other source.

586272328[/snapback]

it's not up for interpretation.

you know, you could make a good lawyer...but not in america. I just read all of your posts and i think a lot of your arrogance about downloading is because you're in canada where these laws are slowly taking place there.

My question to you is, if you can afford 3 dvd's, why can't you afford a dvd burner? You can easily get them for around $40 now. Or how can you download dvd's and yet not be able to back them up? I bet you burn the download dvd's to a dvd, but wait a minute....you can't copy your own dvd's?:o:o

Also, like a few people have said, as far as torrents go, you ARE uploading to another user that may or may not be buying the dvd/cd/etc, therefore you are not just downloading. You help other people illegaly obtain the product. The product you buy in the store is not what you download, and again, just like someone else said, you can't go to the store and take a cd you bought from iTunes and vice versa. If it's not in the DMCA, I'm sure it in some sort of agreement, just like what Valve do. You can download Half-Life 2 online OR you can get the retail dvd or cd at the storeBUT NOT BOTHb>. If you loose the copy of your cd-key on your retail disc, you're screwed. When you re-install you will need a new key. At a business stance I would have to say what they say and that's "tough ****."

If you want to get your "backup" go for it man, but the rules at neowin state you can't talk about warez. So come on, for the better of this community, leave it off the damn forums. I'm sick of it, and I hope there are more people like me that want it gone. Use a torrent forum if you want to talk about torrent-warez.

Edited July 26, 2005 by Meshuggah

[Crimson Behelit]

it's not up for interpretation.

you know, you could make a good lawyer...but not in america. I just read all of your posts and i think a lot of your arrogance about downloading is because you're in canada where these laws are slowly taking place there.

My question to you is, if you can afford 3 dvd's, why can't you afford a dvd burner? You can easily get them for around $40 now. Or how can you download dvd's and yet not be able to back them up? I bet you burn the download dvd's to a dvd, but wait a minute....you can't copy your own dvd's?  :o

Also, like a few people have said, as far as torrents go, you ARE uploading to another user that may or may not be buying the dvd/cd/etc, therefore you are not just downloading. You help other people illegaly obtain the product. The product you buy in the store is not what you download, and again, just like someone else said, you can't go to the store and take a cd you bought from iTunes and vice versa. If it's not in the DMCA, I'm sure it in some sort of agreement, just like what Valve do. You can download Half-Life 2 online OR you can get the retail dvd or cd at the store. BUT NOT BOTH. If you loose the copy of your cd-key on your retail disc, you're screwed. When you re-install you will need a new key. At a business stance I would have to say what they say and that's "tough ****."

If you want to get your "backup" go for it man, but the rules at neowin state you can't talk about warez. So come on, for the better of this community, leave it off the damn forums. I'm sick of it, and I hope there are more people like me that want it gone. Use a torrent forum if you want to talk about torrent-warez.

586272486[/snapback]

Of course the legality of downloading material you hold a license for is open for interpretation. Nowhere in the DMCA does it specifically state or suggest that one is violating the terms of the act by downloading a movie (iso) that one already owns on DVD. Perhaps you should google DMCA and read it. If it's not written in the act, not you nor anyone from Fat City can tell me otherwise.

Once again, when one purchases a movie from the local store, one is purchasing a license to view the material and the disc the material is pressed on. In other words, at the point of purchase (time of transaction), one has a license to view the movie. Under fair use, one is entitled to make backup copies of the movie whether it be on a hdd (iso) or a dvd (read DVD CCA Surrenders in Burner DVD Descrambling Case). That being said, one (downloader) is not in violation of any copyright laws by downloading a movie he/she already owns on dvd.

It is absurd that some of you are suggesting then that this is no different than purchasing music online via itunes and then walking into a shop and pocketing that same CD. When purchasing licenses to listen to music via itunes, you are not purchasing an accompanying CD, case, or cover art. What makes you think, then, that you can take the CD when clearly you never paid for any physical component of the 'CD' at all... just the license (read: rights) to listen to it. What would happen if your ipod broke and you had to replace your unit? You wouldn't have to pay for all those songs again... you'd be allowed to download them because you already paid for a license to listen to that music.

Likewise, since you mentioned Steam and HL2, I should also mention that those who purchased the retail box can and are entitled to download the game via Steam as well... and obviously no one is asserting that those who purchased online via steam have the right to walk into Wal-Mart and snatch a copy of the game... that would be absurd.

Your attempts to squash my point by asserting, "it's not up for interpretation", are in vein. I have a firm grasp of my rights as a consumer, license holder, and Canadian citizen. Better luck trying to manipulate the next trick.

Edited July 26, 2005 by joekr

[lhnz]

Um, no I'm not. You can have a subscription to medication, but buying it from a guy on the street is still illegal. In the ned, only authorized dealers have the right to distribute copyrighted material. The people you download the files from are not authorizzed to distribute the material since they neither own the copyrights nor the permission to distribute the material. Downloading from these distributors includes you in the crime. Read the DMCA and standard copyright laws.

586271762[/snapback]

Ahhhh, so what you are saying is that you are not allowed to buy something which is second-hand, as they have no right to sell it?

Damn thats f*cked up. :rofl:

[lordtinuviel]

? dont know......i have already read the 6 pages.....still dont know whatz the problem.....i have a dvdrw machine i record directly from tv, not just FG anything i like to....for example ihave Shrek2, i bought it when in it came out and i already recorde it when hbo air it few months ago...why? cause i have a 4 year old son....i also bought the incredibles, some games,etc and i already make not just 1 2 copies of each cuase as i said i have a 4 year old son and i aint gonna give him the originals and when i cant copy i just download it......there are some good arguments here but overall is BS....i saw when VCR came to public and saw the same arguments and still there are VCR's today, there no difference and dont give the crap of the digital copy most people dont give a damn about it as long as is watchable......there is no difference if i copy from tv, from the video store or a friend that bought a dvd and copy for me, that what friends will do........long live the torrents