Creative unveils Vision:M video iPod killer

[Echilon]

Anyone wanting to compete with apple is really going have to do something special. Releasing something that's the same as the iPod, just twice as thick and not as sleak isn't going to win many sales. If it were half the size and had a few more features, maybe it would have a chance.

[Fonze]

You can patent them, but if there is prior art (previous usage by others), it won't hold up in court.

The US patent system will pretty much give you a patent for anything.

So are you saying Apple was using the UI before the patent was filed or are you saying Apple was using the UI before Creative?

[Bitey]

Like I said in the other thread, your so-called specs are completely wrong.

*screen resolution(twice the resolution) - Wrong

*Colors of the screen 262k compared to 65k. - Wrong

Just to name a couple.

It's funny how you don't mention the fact that the creative player is twice as thick as the iPod video and has a higher cost.

*Colors of the screen 262k compared to 65k. - Wrong

"The Zen Vision M will hit the markets this month in time for the holiday season and will retail for about $330. Announcing the launch of the device, Creative chairman and CEO, Sim Wong Hoo said, "We designed the Zen Vision M with its mesmerizing 262,144 color screen to display four times the color of the 30 GB iPod that plays video, and to provide twice the battery life for video playback." He added that the player offered an option to people of choosing "their video in a variety of different formats, and to get subscription music or download tracks from a number of different sites to their player."

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/4627.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_Visio...(30GB%2C+green)

*screen resolution(twice the resolution) - Wrong

What is important is the higher resolution output TV. That is 640 x 480. You can also upload DivX files to a "720x?" resoultion compared to the 320 x 240 max on ipod.

"That higher video resolution output means 640 x 480 rather than Apple?s 320 x 240 while you can view any image up to 8 megapixels. The Zen Vision:M also offers best-of-class TV-Out capabilities featuring advanced video scalability. The results of this technology allows hi-res videos to be scaled down in real-time to fit the 2.5 inch screen and also displayed on a TV output in maximum quality with no downscaling."

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the iPod's UI come out before any other Creative player, but Creative patented it before Apple?

Correction:

Creative's players (Nomad, Nomad II, Nomad Jukebox, etc) were out years befoe the iPod.

I believe it's the Nomad Jukebox that they hold the UI patent for, correct?

[1759]

*Colors of the screen 262k compared to 65k. - Wrong

"The Zen Vision M will hit the markets this month in time for the holiday season and will retail for about $330. Announcing the launch of the device, Creative chairman and CEO, Sim Wong Hoo said, "We designed the Zen Vision M with its mesmerizing 262,144 color screen to display four times the color of the 30 GB iPod that plays video, and to provide twice the battery life for video playback." He added that the player offered an option to people of choosing "their video in a variety of different formats, and to get subscription music or download tracks from a number of different sites to their player."

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/4627.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_Visio...(30GB%2C+green)

*screen resolution(twice the resolution) - Wrong

What is important is the higher resolution output TV. That is 640 x 480. You can also upload DivX files to a "720x?" resoultion compared to the 320 x 240 max on ipod.

"That higher video resolution output means 640 x 480 rather than Apple?s 320 x 240 while you can view any image up to 8 megapixels. The Zen Vision:M also offers best-of-class TV-Out capabilities featuring advanced video scalability. The results of this technology allows hi-res videos to be scaled down in real-time to fit the 2.5 inch screen and also displayed on a TV output in maximum quality with no downscaling."

Well technically, the ipod video supports up to 480x480 @ 2.5 MBps with MPEG-4 video with TV playback. Getting an iPod makes sense if you use iTunes, outside of that, meh. I can't stand to use WMP for anything other than videos, and I don't have anything in WMA format, since MP3 is a generic format, I'd rather avoid as much prop. material as possible.

The Vision:M loooks like a nice player, but some things like better battery life is to expected, the thing is almost as thick as the G1 ipods.

For video, there are much better players out there, a 2.5" screen isn't all that great. Cowon (who makes the X5), also makes a video player that has a 20 GB drive and a 480x272 pixel screen like the PSP.

http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/cowon/a2/

For an MP3 player, it's all sort of academic though.

[Tommy2k4]

http://www.creative.com/zenpatent/

[Chad]

So are you saying Apple was using the UI before the patent was filed or are you saying Apple was using the UI before Creative?

I'm not saying either. I'm saying based on how Creative's patent reads, they definitely weren't the first to use the menu system that they received the patent for. Apparently they were just the first to apply for the patent.

[everyonejoo]

Some screen quality comparison pictures between the Zen Vision M and iPod video:

tv out quality:

[Fonze]

I'm not saying either. I'm saying based on how Creative's patent reads, they definitely weren't the first to use the menu system that they received the patent for. Apparently they were just the first to apply for the patent.

do you have proof?

Some screen quality comparison pictures between the Zen Vision M and iPod video:

tv out quality:

nice

[1759]

I'm not saying either. I'm saying based on how Creative's patent reads, they definitely weren't the first to use the menu system that they received the patent for. Apparently they were just the first to apply for the patent.

How many ways can you actually organize music efficiently on a handheld? To me, the Creative/Apple solution seems far too logical, to create a broad, generic patient seems like it would hurt the industry, like when companies create generic software patents, and then went a company comes along, makes a product that could be loosely read as using that patent, gets sued by the first company, even though the first company never really acted on that patent. Seems like that's happened to Microsoft a few times.

I understand wanted to protect copyrights, but other times patents on bits of code/software seems so stupid, I should come up with some broad patent and sue some company in 15 years for infringing it.

Creative will probably end up with millions in licensing fees from Apple in the end.

[Quillz]

Why doesn't the Vision:M have a rechargeable/replaceable battery, like most other Creative products? That would have been a major advantage over the 5G.

[Xtreme $niper]

Personally I think this is far sexier than the iPod video, though I still wont get one because I already have a mp3 player that I am happy with.... But damn it's so tempting.

And with all the extra features that SHOULD come standard with even the iPod, this is definately better than the iPod, and thats not even counting things such as Creative's superior sound quality.

[viciv]

it's too thick....

[MonkeyClaw Veteran]

Personally I think this is far sexier than the iPod video, though I still wont get one because I already have a mp3 player that I am happy with.... But damn it's so tempting.

And with all the extra features that SHOULD come standard with even the iPod, this is definately better than the iPod, and thats not even counting things such as Creative's superior sound quality.

Can you or someone explain how the sound quality is any different? If you get new and good headphones, I can't tell the difference! And Apple and reviewers have even said that the sound quality has been improved on the new ones, so I really don't understand how its any better to the average listener.

As for the features, if the majority of the public isn't going to use them, then why should they be included? The new iPod has microphone support so if you plug one in, it will record in 22 and 44,000 hz (I think those numbers are right but don't quote me on it because its late and I'm rather sleepy). Also about the radio, the majority of users are buying an mp3 player to play mp3s. They aren't going to use it for radio when the reason they got it over a radio player is that they want to listen to their music. I know I don't listen to radio anymore because most of it is crap! Now these features would be nice to have just to say well look it has this but I am not going to use it and most iPod users aren't either. Now on the radio front just as a side note, the New York Post has reported that Apple and Sirus are in the talks, so perhaps in the future newer iPods will have satellite radio capabilities...

I just wanted to add, the above post wasn't meant to have an angry tone in the least so don't take it as such guys :D

Edited December 11, 2005 by MonkeyClaw

[NY1]

*Colors of the screen 262k compared to 65k. - Wrong

"The Zen Vision M will hit the markets this month in time for the holiday season and will retail for about $330. Announcing the launch of the device, Creative chairman and CEO, Sim Wong Hoo said, "We designed the Zen Vision M with its mesmerizing 262,144 color screen to display four times the color of the 30 GB iPod that plays video, and to provide twice the battery life for video playback." He added that the player offered an option to people of choosing "their video in a variety of different formats, and to get subscription music or download tracks from a number of different sites to their player."

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/4627.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_Visio...(30GB%2C+green)

*screen resolution(twice the resolution) - Wrong

What is important is the higher resolution output TV. That is 640 x 480. You can also upload DivX files to a "720x?" resoultion compared to the 320 x 240 max on ipod.

"That higher video resolution output means 640 x 480 rather than Apple?s 320 x 240 while you can view any image up to 8 megapixels. The Zen Vision:M also offers best-of-class TV-Out capabilities featuring advanced video scalability. The results of this technology allows hi-res videos to be scaled down in real-time to fit the 2.5 inch screen and also displayed on a TV output in maximum quality with no downscaling."

Your right about the screen colors. I misread somewhere that the ipod video has a 262k screen and the old ipod photo had a 65k screen.

But the screen resolution on both players is still the same. (320 x 240 pixel )

What Creative needs to do is first make this player as thin as the ipod video and also they need similar software like itunes.

[Chad]

do you have proof?

nice

Hehe, you're kidding, right? There were several mp3 players released prior to anything Creative made that used the hierarchical organization their patent describes.

[Mark-x]

The green one turns me on. And im an ipod lover.

[Fonze]

Hehe, you're kidding, right? There were several mp3 players released prior to anything Creative made that used the hierarchical organization their patent describes.

I still don't see you naming any or showing any screenshots :D

[y0sh]

This player, although it is technologically superior to the iPod 5g in certain aspects, won't be an "ipod killer". I see a few problems:

1. Size: It's not as thin, or as aesthetically pleasing/elegant.

2. Price: Needs to be cheaper, not more expensive, than the iPod to become a "killer".

3. Marketing: iPods, with all their celebrity hype, the brand name, the cool-ness factor, has eventually become a fashion statement/fad. It is hard to compete with something that has such high regard in the public's eye.

[GoogleNinja]

1. Bigger (N)

2. More expensive (N)

3. Bad timing (only available in Japan before Christmas '05) (N)

Where is the iPod killer? I think it's cute how often this phrase is used, and then the product never even puts a dent in the iPod :sleep:

[sundayx Veteran]

creative's approach amazes me...

[Cambria]

This is the biggest turn-off for me: http://monsternet.org/imgview/zenvisionmpr..._appleipod3.jpg

It looks like a soapdish.

[y0sh]

"iPod Killer"

Sony were actually on the right track with the HD5. If they added a color screen, some video capabilities, etc. They'd be fine. They really messed it all up with their new Fisher-price-like players. I do believe they would be the one to kill the iPod, if any.. certainly not Creative and certainly not the Vision:M.

[Ambience]

Those screen comparisons really show that if it was based solely on the screens of the two players, Creative would win hands down. I doubt anybody could dispute that based on the pictures posted previously.

[Fonze]

Just ran some numbers:

iPod

weight (oz): 4.8

thickness (in): 0.43

music battery (hours): 14

video battery (hours): 2

Zen

weight (oz): 5.75

thickness (in): 0.73

music battery(hours): 14

video battery(hours): 4

iPod/Zen

weight: 83.48%

thickness: 58.9%

music battery: 100%

video battery: 50%

So, as you can see from the numbers above, the zen has double the video playback of the iPod, but is slightly heavier and almost twice as thick.

The screen on the Zen is better, as seen in previous posts. The screen on the Zen is also more protected because it has a raised area surrounding it, where as the iPod is completely flat arround the whole area, making it more prone to scratches.

*edit* - fixed the formating, aparently it didn't like my spacing

Edited December 12, 2005 by Fonze