Shaw Cablesystems

[Attyk]

I spent the last 7 days without a connection. I am on Telus now and have had serious problems with my former ISP, Shaw Cablesystems.

They have been trying to get users to respect certain "guidelines" in regards to bandwidth usage. I notified CRTC and the CSTC about the harrassment I had to endure as a result of Shaw and their "guidelines". This was in May. Last week my account was suspended because of this matter so I closed it. I just sent a letter to the CRTC in hopes that something can be done about this matter. My rights as a consumer went out the window. Previously I received a letter from Shaw stating they had no specific guidelines on residential lines, to which my line is. The loophole they found was that I had degraded and adversly affected the service in my area. They quoted my usage as 60 gigs down and 16 gigs up in the last 30 days. I know that the only adverse affect I had was on their pocket books, however much of that "inflated" figure was from their own news servers.

Basically why I am right this is for a few reasons. One, I would like to ask anyone out there who knows much about their networks to enlighten me. I know some but not as much as I would like on this issue. I know they are lying to me but if anyone has any information on exactly how their system works, please share, anything at all, you never know if it might help. Two, since I am in Canada and cannot sue unless there are specific damages, it becomes pointless to spend $4000 to get my line back so I am open to suggestions. Basically if anyone has any advice or any experience in these matters please reply. I have alread spoken to a lawyer and do have an incredibly strong case. I just dont have the money to put forward in this matter. I live in Canada, BC so if anyone out there has received a notice on this matter please pm me.

So that is the reason I have been MIA.

[Lomex]

There was a guy in Edmonton, Alberta with the same issue as you. What did he do? He went to the news... We have a troubleshooter on Global News I think and that's where he went. Don't know the exact details because I missed the news but the troubleshooter lady read over the agreement and stuff and said that they're harrasing customers or something like that..

Anyways, I say if you can you do the same thing!!! Plus you shall be a movie star for couple mins, lol

[DrunkenMaster]

Attyk,

Just to let you know, the CRTC will not do anything about your complaint. They will simply forward the complaint to Shaw who will have 7 business days to respond. Lauch a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Shaw would also have 7 days to respond but here's the good part, if you don't like the reponse you can call back the BBB and have them try and arbitrate a deal.

Go the media as well. Most people won't care too much but I'm sure more technically inclined people will call and complain and some would even cancel their accounts.

The CRTC and CTSC will both plead ignorance saying they don't govern Internet services or providers. You'd think they'd have more responsibilties seeing as they get so much taxpayer's money. If there is no mention of the fact that "degrading other's usage" or download limits (note unlimited usage is now disclosed as unlimited time in most cases) but unless Shaw has noticed that you only recently downloaded this much data and did nothing to warn you about the amount downloaded you should have a strong case.

If you really feel like it, write to your local MP. If he doesn't answer back or take it seriously, you know who not to vote for come election time.

Hope this helps.

[Attyk]

Originally posted by DrunkenMaster

The CRTC and CTSC will both plead ignorance saying they don't govern Internet services or providers.

You are bang on on that one. I complained to them in May when I first had trouble with Shaw. That is exactly what they said. They do not monitor internet at this time.

I will go to the news and see if I have a story with them. Thanks for the advice guys.

[NOS482]

Originally posted by Attyk

You are bang on on that one. I complained to them in May when I first had trouble with Shaw. That is exactly what they said. They do not monitor internet at this time.

I will go to the news and see if I have a story with them. Thanks for the advice guys.

It is difficult fighting a monopoly like the Cable company.

Also, I've heard horror stories about the BBB not actually going after its members when they have done something bad unless they also fail to pay their membership dues as well.

[Mr_Eckted]

I live in canada, and you can sue if they refuse to give your line back. It is law that they have no right to refuse sale to anyone, as that would be discrimination. try it

[Mac_Bug]

I don't see what your problem is. If they call you up and said you used too much bandwidth to the extend that adversely affected their service to the area (in case you are wondering, yes, you are the guy down the block who slows down the internet for everyone else in the pool), and then terminate your account, they have every right to do so. Although there are no specific guidelines as to exactly how much bandwidth you can use, you signed a little agreement when you paid for the service that I am willing to bet gives them the right to terminate your account.

As for internet activity monitoring, it's simple, I can't imagine Shaw or any cable provider for that matter that doesn't monitor their network usage. Companies in these tough times are desperately trying to stay afloat, and most individuals working in companies keep very good records to make themselves look useful. Basicly network management 101 calls for bandwidth and usage monitoring albiet not necessarily in particular to any customer, but don't you remember a very simple thing? Your cable modem, I bet it keeps caps of how much data passes through it, if nothing else.

You can always sue for emotional damages (ha) or of course claim lost revenue as result of loss of your connectivity to the internet. If you are willing to explain, what, exactly, did you spend your 60 gig download on? 'news' ?

You can of course go to the media, if any media are willing to take you up at it at all. Basic pressure against Shaw will most likely result in them quietly giving you a line back, instate an official guideline and shut you up because court cases, whether they win or not, is not good for their publicity, especially when it could possibly establish precedence for this sort of thing and force users who are in similar situation to band together to cause a ruckus.

Mr_Eckted: Of course they have a right to refuse sale, I don't know which planet you are from, but shoplifters tend to get banned from stores they try to steal from.

[Timan Veteran]

you know the same **** is happening to cox cable right now. my ping has been up to about 250 everywhere when it used to be about 50, now i get cut off every damn nite and it pisses me off, i'm about to switch to dsl cause of this :s

[Mr_Eckted]

what planet am i from? CANADA!

and there is, of course certain intsances where they can refuse sale, but unless they put specificly in their contract, "We have the right to refuse sale to any persons, then no they cant, i dont know what planet your from, but whereever it is, you certainly arnt up to date in canadian law and human rights.

[Mac_Bug]

Shaw does not routinely monitor the activity of accounts for violation of this Policy. However, in our efforts to promote good citizenship within the Internet community, we will respond appropriately if we become aware of inappropriate use of the Services. Although Shaw has no obligation to monitor the Services and/or the network, Shaw reserves the right to monitor bandwidth, usage and content from time to time, to identify violations of this Policy; and/or to protect the network and Shaw users.

Shaw prefers to advise customers of inappropriate behavior and any necessary corrective action. However, if the Services are used in a way which Shaw, in its sole discretion, believes violate this Policy, Shaw may take any responsive actions they deem appropriate. Such actions include, but are not limited to, temporary or permanent removal of content, cancellation of newsgroup posts, filtering of Internet transmissions, and the immediate suspension or termination of all or any portion of the Services. Shaw will not have any liability for any such responsive actions. The above described actions are not Shaw?s exclusive remedies and Shaw may take any other legal or technical action it deems appropriate.

Shaw reserves the right to investigate suspected violations of this Policy, including the gathering of information from the user or users involved and the complaining party, if any, and examination of material on Shaw?s servers and network. During an investigation, Shaw may suspend the account or accounts involved and/or remove material which potentially violates this Policy.

I don't think you have a chance in court, unless they've never warned you before hand.

[Greenmuncher]

Originally posted by Mac_Bug

Although there are no specific guidelines as to exactly how much bandwidth you can use, you signed a little agreement when you paid for the service that I am willing to bet gives them the right to terminate your account.

Actually your right there, check your shaw guide lines handbook.

From the Shaw Acceptable Use Policy https://secure.shaw.ca/policy/Use-Policy.asp

8. Bandwidth, Data Storage and Other Limitation

You must comply with the current bandwidth, data storage and other limitations on the Services.

Users must ensure that their activity does not improperly restrict, inhibit or degrade any other customer?s use of the Services, nor represent (in the sole judgement of Shaw) an unusually large burden on the network itself, such as, but not limited to, peer to peer file sharing programs, serving streaming video or audio, mail, http, ftp, irc, dhcp servers, and multi-user interactive forums. The guidelines for Bandwidth Usage/month for each business service package are the following: SOHO - 6 GigaByte download/2 GigaByte upload; Professional - 8 GigaByte download/3 GigaByte upload; Business - 14 GigaByte download/4 GigaByte upload. The guidelines for acceptable web site traffic include 300 MegaByte/month for Professional and 500 MegaByte/month for Business hosting packages. Residential services do not have specific guidelines of this nature as the Service is not intended for business applications. Shaw reserves the right to set specific limits for Bandwidth Usage and charge for excessive Bandwidth Usage for residential Services at any time. In addition, users must ensure that their activity does not improperly restrict, disrupt, inhibit, degrade or impede Shaw?s ability to deliver the Services and monitor the Services, backbone, network nodes, and/or other network services.

On a side note:

It says no specific guidlines are implement for home use. That does not mean there are NO guide lines, it means its up to SHAW to deciede when a user is over using the network. I was told the rule of thumb for residental customers was 6GB Down 4GB UP

I was once in your position too, and this was the information i found.

Greenmuncher

[V0b0]

everyone should switch to telus, the service is substantially better, if the system goes down, it's down for an hour, not 2 days. Plus on adsl, the speeds are very similar, if not better, and its much less expensive.

[Attyk]

Originally posted by Mac_Bug

I don't see what your problem is. If they call you up and said you used too much bandwidth to the extend that adversely affected their service to the area (in case you are wondering, yes, you are the guy down the block who slows down the internet for everyone else in the pool), and then terminate your account, they have every right to do so. Although there are no specific guidelines as to exactly how much bandwidth you can use, you signed a little agreement when you paid for the service that I am willing to bet gives them the right to terminate your account.

As for internet activity monitoring, it's simple, I can't imagine Shaw or any cable provider for that matter that doesn't monitor their network usage. Companies in these tough times are desperately trying to stay afloat, and most individuals working in companies keep very good records to make themselves look useful. Basicly network management 101 calls for bandwidth and usage monitoring albiet not necessarily in particular to any customer, but don't you remember a very simple thing? Your cable modem, I bet it keeps caps of how much data passes through it, if nothing else.

You can always sue for emotional damages (ha) or of course claim lost revenue as result of loss of your connectivity to the internet. If you are willing to explain, what, exactly, did you spend your 60 gig download on? 'news' ?

You can of course go to the media, if any media are willing to take you up at it at all. Basic pressure against Shaw will most likely result in them quietly giving you a line back, instate an official guideline and shut you up because court cases, whether they win or not, is not good for their publicity, especially when it could possibly establish precedence for this sort of thing and force users who are in similar situation to band together to cause a ruckus.

Mr_Eckted: Of course they have a right to refuse sale, I don't know which planet you are from, but shoplifters tend to get banned from stores they try to steal from.

First off what the hell are you talking about? Comparing me to a shoplifter? How do you figure? Go and watch their commercial. UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS flashes by numerous times. What does that mean? Unlimited to me means no limits. Not unlimited time and not unlimited this and that, simply UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS. You cant think that misleading people into subscribing is professional and honest and thats exactly what they are doing. I am well aware at what kind of perdicament they are in. Go through the proper channels and place a black and white cap. Like ISPs across the world.

Second downloading 60 gigs at 100 KB/sec takes roughly 70 or so hours. That is 3 days of steady downloading a month. Since my line was fast and I mostly got around 150 KB/sec and more then half of my bandwidth used was from usenet which is directly from Shaw's servers, which are capped at a steady 200 KB/sec, the time it would take to download 60 gigs would be considerably less. This is to point out my modem wasnt download 24/7. Shaw has and can write/change their AUP to whatever they want. This doesnt mean it will hold up in court or arent against consumers rights, yes we have rights as well. Legally I have an incredibly strong case because they have to prove their system was actually stressed to the point that I was causing a severe problem for other users. I also have in writing that there is no set limit so why are they hounding me about one?

You people who dont see a case are broken by corporate propoganda or are thinking I am some snot nosed kid just wanting to rob companies of software and download warez. you are the ones that pay what companies tell you you should pay and shut up happy to have the service. You are every corporations dream. People who take it from behind and defend them to boot. If a class action lawsuit can be launched and won over Blockbuster (yes this is in Canada) regarding their late charges, one can certainly have a case against being harrassed by Shaw. I dont care what kind of shape they are in. I dont get a deal if I lose my job or am broke and I dont call them and ask them what they do with my money do I.

I am sick of being pushed around by corporations and being treated like a bank when it serves their purpose.

I have no interest in gaining anything from this, I want Shaw disciplined so this does not continue across the country period.

[xpablo]

Go to the Media is your best bet, don't bother wasting all your time,money and energy fighting Shaw.

I used to work for one of the contracting companies installing the Internet & cable services for Rogers & Shaw, eventually Shaw got rid of most of the contracting companies,everything we did was done according to industry standards and professionally done.

Shaw decided they didn't need that for their subscribers and in turn hired their own independent contractors, half those guys were total morons and didn't even know how to install a cable modem = many problems and many service calls= $$$$$$$$$$

Anyways Shaw is a very cheap if not stingy corporation and a RACIST one too. :ninja:

I applied to several dept's with Shaw for employment after I was laid off and was turned down each time, I had over 5yrs experience and then an inexperienced East Indian or Chinese or some other minority person would get hired for the job over me !

Basically the colour of my skin was too white for them.

I wish you all the luck in battling Shaw !!!

and people thought Roger's Cable was bad !!!

Just get word out that Telus ADSL is much better, but does Telus not have a 1gig/month d/l cap ?????

[Mac_Bug]

What does that mean? Unlimited to me means no limits. Not unlimited time and not unlimited this and that, simply UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS. You cant think that misleading people into subscribing is professional and honest and thats exactly what they are doing.

How many programs did you download with that 60 gig? How many programs did you install? How much of those EULA have you read before clicking on agree?

"I was mislead!"

I'm not going to insult your intelligence, because you insult yourself.

Legally I have an incredibly strong case because they have to prove their system was actually stressed to the point that I was causing a severe problem for other users. I also have in writing that there is no set limit so why are they hounding me about one?

I think you need to contact your lawyer again, evidently you STILL don't read the fine print, here, I'll quote it for you

Users must ensure that their activity does not improperly restrict, inhibit or degrade any other customer?s use of the Services, nor representin the sole judgement of Shawb>) an unusually large burden on the network itself, such as, but not limited to, peer to peer file sharing programs, serving streaming video or audio, mail, http, ftp, irc, dhcp servers, and multi-user interactive forums.i>

You people who dont see a case are broken by corporate propoganda or are thinking I am some snot nosed kid just wanting to rob companies of software and download warez.

I don't download 60 Gb or upload 16 Gb, what exactly do you do on usenets?

you are the ones that pay what companies tell you you should pay and shut up happy to have the service. You are every corporations dream. People who take it from behind and defend them to boot.

Welcome to the real world. This is how it works, they offer service, you take it or leave it. Do they knock on your door and beg you to sign up? No, then they don't 'need' your business. You are the only one whos being taken from behind. I use Shaw, I think what I'm paying is reasonable, and they certain never called me up saying I used too much bandwidth.

When I bought my Compaq, there was supposed to be a 'free' and 'unlimited' internet too from Compaq - only for selected cities, and in the fine print, it actually said 'reasonable within 150 hours of usage per month'. I didn't read my Shaw agreement either before I signed it, but I have common sense to know 'unlimited' is anything but.

There is a sucker born every minute

I am sick of being pushed around by corporations and being treated like a bank when it serves their purpose.

Capitalism, heard of it?

First off what the hell are you talking about? Comparing me to a shoplifter? How do you figure?

what do you want me to compare you to, the guy who bought 100 computers because you got a coupon to 'buy one get one free!' but failed to read the fine print of 'limited to 1 per family' ?