Deciever Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 (edited) I am between a rock and a hard place. Both cameras seem to be excellent contenders for the $300-350 price range, however I was trying to keep my budget at $250-300 but it looks like I will splurge a little bit. Basicly I am planning on taking a lot of outdoor pictures with it, some far away shots and others very close up(macro). Then also I will be using it for family photos indoors, events and the like, but I just can't decide. If the FZ7 didn't have a noise issue and had super macro I'd be sold but it does have a noise issue even at the lower ISO's where the S2 does not. And the S2 has a great Super Macro feature that can focus on things 0-10cm away OO. But then the scales get tipped once more by the FZ7 it has unbeatable color reproduction better and truer than the S2. Probably thinks to the Leica lense no doubt and Panasonics sensors seem to provide excellent color. I own a Panasonic video camera GS-810 I think is the model and it has wonderful color due to it being one of the best sub $1000 cameras at the time that had 3CCD's all for $700 while the other video cameras at the same price and higher had crap CCD's and crap lenses this one had the Leica lense and 3CCD normally found in high end pro cams. I am not bias towards one brand or another I just want the best deal possible for me and honestly Panasonic still cameras did not even cross my mind till someone else was comparing it to canons S3 camera which cost substantailly more. I was actually just looking at Canon's and Nikons and some Kodaks. Originally I was looking at going with a canon SD450 compact camera but I am just very worried that it would not give me the image quality I'd want and the $100 extra would be worth it image quality wise and it lacks a lot of manual controls options I could get from the FZ7 or the S2 SLR like cameras, not to mention the added zoom. I don't want to spend anymore than $350 because one I can hardly afford that and two this is a hobby I am just starting. Photography has always interested me I just never had a good camera to work with and I am not willing to waste my time with a cheap $100-150 camera. I want my pictures to look as professional as I can make them and anything less is a waste of my time. Having said that I'd still love to have a Rebel XT =) but yea those dang lenses would kill my bank account and have my credit card companies crying for joy(so far I have not earned them a penny of intrest in almost 4 years now) EDIT:: 1 point for FZ7, it supports TIFF however no RAW, S2 supports no TIFF or RAW just a lossy JPG format.... -1 for S2 Edited May 15, 2006 by Deciever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Floyd Veteran Posted May 15, 2006 Veteran Share Posted May 15, 2006 My pick, the panasonic Reasons: 1. You want macro? Panasonic minimal focus distance is 5cm compared to the S2 @ 10cm 2. Leica lens! 3. Bigger LCD screen 2.5" compared to 1.8" 4. Don't want to spend more than 350$ Panasonic has their own Lithium-Ion rechargeable battery 5. Higher ISO avalaible 6. 1 more MP. Important in P&S and SLR-Like but not important in SLR 7. Smaller weight Cons 1. Smaller handle. Pick both of them and feel them in your hand. Some ppl feels camera too small. This is even the case with Canon Rebel XT (no full size handle!) no more cons.. my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 hmm.. but I thought the S2 had a Super Macro mode that could work from 0-10cm away! Maybe that only works with a new lense adapter of some sort otherwise it does not do as good from stock. thanks for your opinion it has been helpful, I think I will place my order tonight. I just wish Newegg had it in stock, the black one. Newegg has never done me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Floyd Veteran Posted May 15, 2006 Veteran Share Posted May 15, 2006 between you and me, it doesn't make a huge difference 5 or 10 cm Some ppl like to do macro with longer range. You'll see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 (edited) yea I can't see myself always being 5-10cm away from my macro target.... Ok so here is my low down The camera Panasonic DMC-FZ7K for $327 http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.as...K&sku=PNDMCFZ7K 1GB SD memory card @ 133x by Corsair for $32 http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...te=pricegrabber :EDIT:: weird I just discovered newegg did have this it just didn't show up in my search originally, oh well I saved .31 cents. Now I just need a good lens cleaning kit, anyone know if any one is particular better than enough generic lens cleaning kit? Also I am not too worried about getting a case right at this moment, I believe the camera comes with a good hard lense cover and a good strap and that is all I should need for now. And when I do order one in the weeks to come it will be a hard case, newegg seems to have a nice one for $30 and I might be able to fit both my panasonic video camera and picture camera in it....hmm wonder if my tripod would fit too. For an extra $60-100 beachcamera would bundle stuff with it with a discount! but it was laughable it is a lot cheaper ordering accessories else where and my SD card is surely faster. atleast as far as the noise levels on this camera are concerned I am very proficient at photoshop so I think I can clean up any noise without any loss of detail up to ISO 200.... ISO 400 looked hopeless.... but come to think of it the examples I looked at were pitch black. Edited May 15, 2006 by Deciever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Floyd Veteran Posted May 15, 2006 Veteran Share Posted May 15, 2006 well I don't have any cleaning kit with my dslr. Just put your cap as soon as you are done :p I can't help you on this sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 (edited) I find it strange that I keep reading about its predecessors and some say they were worse or had some features they'd perfer but overal the FZ7 is an upgrade and should provide better quality and at least the same. But when I look at prices I cannot find a FZ5, FZ30 and another earlier one for less than what I paid for the FZ7 o0. I find that odd but I supose these places bought them in large qauntites and either do not realize the FZ7 is out or they bought the earlier ones at such high prices they cannot afford to sell them at around $327 or less. Where as the FZ7 I assume came out right after a tumble in camera prices occured keeping their purchase price low thus being able to sell it for less to the consumers? ::EDIT:: well to be fair the FZ30 is 8MP flickr seems to have some great shots from people using the FZ7 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/fz7/ Would alcohol be dangerous to put on a camera lense? Edited May 15, 2006 by Deciever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Floyd Veteran Posted May 15, 2006 Veteran Share Posted May 15, 2006 edit: it seems that 100% methyl alcohol is the way to do. Personally, I would have difficulties to put stuff on lens to clean them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) wow I just found a review that really does put the FZ7 undoubtedly over the top vs S2 image quality wise when noise is concerned and it is what I suspected just could not prove. The review of the two over at dpreview used a very dark picture a for its higher ISO settings like a night time city landscape where as steve over at steve-digicams took shots of toys and posters indoors with no flash and like I suspected panasonics more blotchy noise actually lessens its noticeability where as the S2 just went crazy with very visible grainy noise at ISO 200 and 400. And also I think the Ape poster had more sharp detail with the FZ7 and the green looked more natural where as canon made it almost an army green tint. However the panasonic did not replicate the red as good as it should once again(noticed first at dpreview) but once he turned the flash one the red becamer redder. So I assume when out doors reds will probably be very vibrant and appear better than the S2. The two reviews are here http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_review...is_samples.html http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/fz7_samples.html And the important part which one shows up more in large prints? well someone tested that over at http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=123021 and said this "Well, I printed these out at 7x5 inches, and there is NO noise in either picture. However, the S2 was not quite as sharp on the ISO200, and on the ISO400 looked a little more fuzzier..... shame!" "That said, if I take the comments of doichuck regarding the Panasonic and John Reed regarding the Canon about colours looking almost watercolour, I would have to say, I agree with John. Colours just don't seem as good on the Canon as they do on the Panasonic." and another said this about S3 vs FZ7 "I've even done comparsons of ISO800 of the S3 and FZ7 at 7x5 on the same page, and although are not highlighting noise, the FZ7 seems to have the edge on picture and colour quality." I now feel even better about my decision :D Edited May 16, 2006 by Deciever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 (edited) wow I just found a site that actually makes my FZ7 look better than a Rebel XT =) lol I supose if you search long enough your bound to find your skewed reviews lol. http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/PanasonicFZ30/page4.shtml however if it is the FZ30 8MP but I have compared many pics between it and FZ7 and they are practically indistinguishable if you did not have it labeled, so I pratically take it all to be the same almost. And yea FZ30 is a nonSLR. And I have read of some who sold their FZ30 for a FZ7 due to wanting something smaller..... can't blame them if the results are relatively the same however image quality is most important to me...not the size.... unless it is just ungodly huge. having said all that though I prefer cameralabs method of comparing their cameras to 2 other competitors being taking shoots seconds apart vs dpreviews(or steves digicams) days or months apart. Edited May 18, 2006 by Deciever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Floyd Veteran Posted May 18, 2006 Veteran Share Posted May 18, 2006 hehe see how can you find anything on internet haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 I am po'd this is the first time I have ordered something and thing depreciated in value before it ever reached my freakin >( BeachCamera charged me $326 two days ago and now it is $324.....$2 whole freakin dollars oo did the US currency just go up a few half pennies or did some new camera already come out to replace it OO. j/king =P it ain't so bad as long as it don't loose $200 vs $2 within a year so then I will be ok =). It will probably be discontinued before that happens though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Floyd Veteran Posted May 19, 2006 Veteran Share Posted May 19, 2006 Generally, camera are being replaced by a successor every year or so :yes: I am waiting on the succesor of the Nikon D70s :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 20, 2006 Author Share Posted May 20, 2006 (edited) well I am amazed by FedEx they got my memory card AND my camera in TODAY and I ordered the memory card from the west coast and my camera from the east coast! And while I got my memory card on the day expected I got my camera a full two days EARLY! I almost wonder if they knew I ordered two products and put my camera on higher proirity to get it to me on the same day so they would not have to drive an hour out to my house on two separate days. The closes FedEx to me is an hour away. Also my items did fall of their tracking radar, both of them for over 24 hours oo. After having so many problems with all the other shippers FedEx is the only way to go, excellent shipping and VERY speedy service....except that one time when they got lost... Well at the moment my FZ7 is charging(1 hour to go) and I'll admit it is smaller than I expected and the lens does protrude out so far that putting it in your pocket would be a real dangerous challenge lol. But to me image quality is at the forefront of importance not the size big or small or if it is pocketable. However if I did want it pocketable I would go with the TZ1 I almost wonder if its image quality might be slightly better too due to the Venus III image processor where as FZ7 uses Venus II, maybe they can issue a firmware update lol... doubt it Venus III = new models. First thing I will do is take some test shots indoors in an unprofessionally lit area, so it will be slightly dark and it is under tungsten lighting. So this will probably be the setting in which you'd take picture of your family and friends. I will also take a few under flourescent. My dads cam was set to flourescent lighting and it made pics look horrible and tungsten actually made flourescent lighting come out better than the flourescent setting. Edited May 20, 2006 by Deciever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Floyd Veteran Posted May 20, 2006 Veteran Share Posted May 20, 2006 show us the pictures when ready :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camsoft Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 I also had the same problem. I was choosing between the Cannon S2 and FZ7 and I bought the FZ7. Absolutely no regrets, this camera is great. I did a lot of research between the two and the Panasonic kept coming out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 20, 2006 Author Share Posted May 20, 2006 (edited) yea this camera is awsome =) I am still trying to learn what works best and all that settings wise and I got bored with my test subjects in the house fairly quick so I ran outside instead after a couple of test shots. I really need to read the manual so I can take full advantage of all of the freakin features not to mention it took me a few minutes to find where they were all hiding because of not reading it lol. Well here is a shot of a flower out in my garden but I also had some fun with it in photoshop too. Then I also took a snapshot of some vines growing up a tree. I also saw a blue jay fly by onto a tree but it was across the street at a pretty far distance so I thought great chance to try out my 12x zoom, I was slightly disappointed because I was unable to make out where that bird landed looking at the lcd, maybe if I used the viewfinder I would have been better off, regardless I did upload the pic to my laptop to find out yep I got him even though I could not see where he landed with my naked eye I just knew the general area. cropped slightly and downsized to 1/3 the normal size, untouched color and contrast enhanced in photoshop, also used layers to help background B&W, flower in color Tree Vines(untouched, downsized), wish I would have focused on the foreground vs the middle/background area The blue jay across the street @ x12 zoom and I could not see it with my naked eye(cropped, downsized 50%) More flowers, downsized by 1/3rd and untouched, uncropped Also all of these shots were shot at ISO 80, with shutter speed @ 1/100 anything longer than that would get over exposure(if not slightly even with that). Also I have noticed no zoom is 6mm according to EXIF data but x12 is 72mm? 6 does divide 72mm 12 times but I expected it to say 36mm-432mm... Edited May 20, 2006 by Deciever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 21, 2006 Author Share Posted May 21, 2006 here is a couple more, full resolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconian Guppy Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 here is a couple more, full resolution Very good photo! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Floyd Veteran Posted May 21, 2006 Veteran Share Posted May 21, 2006 yup I agree with you Maudit. And also original! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deciever Posted May 21, 2006 Author Share Posted May 21, 2006 thanks Floyd and maudit, it took me a number of shots to get it right but I am glad I did =). I was also very surprised out how well it picked up the detail of soil around it. I was not expecting to get a good depth of feild shot on my first outing :D . Here is another picture I took today of a squirrel, so far it is my favorite wild life pic I have taken. click here for full http://iciclelanding.com/aperture?photo=11...=1536&full=.jpg here is some of the EXIF data Make - Panasonic Model - DMC-FZ7 Orientation - Top left XResolution - 72 YResolution - 72 ResolutionUnit - Inch DateTime - 2006:05:21 11:35:40 YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited ExifOffset - 418 ExposureTime - 1/125 seconds FNumber - 4.00 ExposureProgram - Manual control ISOSpeedRatings - 80 ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr CompressedBitsPerPixel - 4 (bits/pixel) ExposureBiasValue - 0.00 MaxApertureValue - F 2.83 MeteringMode - Multi-segment LightSource - Cloudy weather Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode FocalLength - 72.00 mm ColorSpace - sRGB ExifImageWidth - 2048 ExifImageHeight - 1536 InteroperabilityOffset - 6908 CustomRendered - Normal process ExposureMode - Manual WhiteBalance - Manual FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 594 mm SceneCaptureType - Standard GainControl - None Contrast - Normal Saturation - Normal Sharpness - Normal PS I have also posted this over at dpreview.com where I am known as glitchbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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