scumdogmillionaire Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 all you babies finally got what you want (sort of!) :p Just a quick blog post to update you on an issue near and dear to the hearts of some people. Well, at least the 1300 or so people so far who have contacted me about this issue. Background In Vista, we are really trying to reduce the amount of high contrast visual noise in the UI to make it more comfortable for daily use. Part of that is make the taskbar darker, and another aspect is making the maximized windows match the taskbar by tinting toward black also. The black taskbar and black titlebar produce a kind of letter-boxed effect, drawing your eyes toward the contents. We think it works pretty well. What we do is mix black in with the selected window color. If you look closely, you can see that your taskbar and maximized titlebars all have some of your window color mixed in. The Complaints Now, we have had a number of complaints from users on this one. It seems that people who bother to change their window color using the cool new Appearance control panel are not happy when their red or blue windows turn black. Of course, for any change we make there are a whole bunch of people who hate it. With 300 million users, even 1/10th of 1% of people don't like something, and only 1% of those REALLY don't like it, that is still thousands of people who will email us daily, blog about it, tell their friends, etc. The trick of working in Windows is to have a thick skin while still remaining sensitive to potentially serious issues. For this issue, we talked about it internally for quite a while. Were people just reacting to the change? Would they get used to it over time and even grow to appreciate it? Or would it be one of those little annoying things that bugs people a little bit every day? We even considered whether or not this should be a choice for the user. Was it worth adding more UI to the system? And of course as time went on, the ability to make any change at all was going down by the day. The Fix In the end, we decided that we like the black and think it is the right thing to do, but we want to respect the user's color choice for users who bother to make a change. So - starting in today's build, we have significantly backed off the amount of black that is mixed in with the user's color for maximized windows. This is not particularly noticeable with the default color, but with the more intense colors like Red and Orange, you will appreciate the difference. So - cheers for everyone who didn't like the black windows! And for those who want the darkness, just change your window color to something more black. Source: shell:revealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I8PP Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Builds around Beta 2 exhibited a similar behaviour. I tinkered around colour/saturation/brightness scales to have my max windows show a hint of blue but all that changed a build or two before RC1. Guess it's nice to have that back, though the black doesn't bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeZuZz Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Nice that they did something about it, but seriously - is it that hard to just add a checkbox "Don't change border when maximized" ? Than they could make everyone happy - not just "a little happy". I think it's nice and logical like it is now, but i don't understand why they didn't make it optional, when they even spent time discussing what to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myNando Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Nice that they did something about it, but seriously - is it that hard to just add a checkbox "Don't change border when maximized" ? <sincere>HAHA! What a good idea.</sincere> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scumdogmillionaire Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share Posted October 3, 2006 here is a great post from the same team explaining how much impact a little change like you're suggesting actually impacts the design. shell:revealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azz0r_wugg Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Not good enough. I just pray theres a registry hack for this eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdesmus Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 What a bunch of whiny girls you people are...:blink: The letterbox effect makes perfect visual and UI sense. :yes: (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septimus Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 here is a great post from the same team explaining how much impact a little change like you're suggesting actually impacts the design. shell:revealed Good article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menge Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 bah... so we still won't get transparency? we get frickin colorful background? EW.... seems that Windows Vista will be the version of Windows which will get me used to NOT maximizing windows... thanks to Microsoft for changing it anyways. i guess i'll be able to make better judgement of it when i see screenies or the build itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaidiir Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 What a bunch of whiny girls you people are...:blink: The letterbox effect makes perfect visual and UI sense. :yes: (Y) I agree. I think it looks cool when the window gets that smooth black border when maximized. I think it really doesn't matter...when the window is maximized, you don't need to and won't see the other windows, so what does it matter if the window border is different? Stop being girly men! :schwarzeneggar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+virtorio MVC Posted October 3, 2006 MVC Share Posted October 3, 2006 bah... so we still won't get transparency? we get frickin colorful background? EW.... seems that Windows Vista will be the version of Windows which will get me used to NOT maximizing windows... thanks to Microsoft for changing it anyways. i guess i'll be able to make better judgement of it when i see screenies or the build itself. If you maximize a window you obviously want it to fill the screen, so what possible advantage is there to having a little transparency around the edges, distracting you from the content in the middle? That’s not what the transparency effects were intended for. It's pretty obvious and frankly simple common sense as to why they turned off that ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menge Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 (edited) If you maximize a window you obviously want it to fill the screen, so what possible advantage is there to having a little transparency around the edges, distracting you from the content in the middle? That’s not what the transparency effects were intended for. It's pretty obvious and frankly simple common sense as to why they turned off that ability. the point is: it simply changes the way that the entire UI was shown before to something different (from transparent windows and taskbar to totally opaque windows and taskbar) that is confusing enough for the user. and it changes abruptly. IF Microsoft had put a maximize animation and while maximizing, it made the window more and more opaque, it'd be better, IMO. even then, that solution is not good enough. after all, the color of the entire UI will change to something darker. which is just weird. the user will just go "this wasn't the color i chose back then. why did it change?" i'm not talking about distraction or not. i'm talking about it doing things in a clunky way. which is exactly how i see the whole opaque maximized windows :s edit: i don't know about other people. but i NEVER maximized a window to "focus" on one app... i always did it in order to get the most space available on my screen to that window... just that. not anything related to focusing or whatever. people still alt+tab like hell with maximized windows. reminds me of how Windows Explorer deals with folders with different file types... it overrides my selections for how i want to view a folder. it's just stupid. (try selecting a folder, setting it to details, customizing the columns and then going to Tools > Options... and applying to all folders. and THEN visit a folder filled with pics.... or mp3 files.) not to mention the whole "Windows Explorer doesn't remember its size" thing... Edited October 3, 2006 by Menge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted October 3, 2006 Veteran Share Posted October 3, 2006 Finally, one of the most bitched-about topics at shellrevealed is cured... partially. I'm now perfectly fine with this decision. The amount of black when maximized WAS overkill. Hopefully now it won't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Frothy Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 It's good that someone at Microsoft actually listened, but it doesn't sound like the change is enough. Is that shell blog site run by Microsoft?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitebread Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 What a bunch of whiny girls you people are... :blink: The letterbox effect makes perfect visual and UI sense. :yes: (Y) Indeed. Bunch of whiners! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Max Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Great ! I actually posted a big suggestion about this to Microsoft a few days ago ... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trek Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 So now what about the transition between transparent and opaque maximized windows? It looks horrendous as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemo Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I'm not gonna make any judgements until I see what they have changed... I am glad though, that they have done something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Every idiot who says MS doesn't listen from now on should be slapped in the face with a monitor displaying a maximized window in Vista. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Every idiot who says MS doesn't listen from now on should be slapped in the face with a monitor displaying a maximized window in Vista. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Frothy Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Every idiot who says MS doesn't listen from now on should be slapped in the face with a monitor displaying a maximized window in Vista. But they didn't listen. The change they are talking about goes only part way to what Beta Testers and others have been asking. Also, does the taskbar still turn black when a window is maximised or does it behave the same as maximized borders?! Just because Microsoft changes 1 of over three dozen odd behaviours in Aero - that doesn't suddenly make microsoft responsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimy Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 But they didn't listen. The change they are talking about goes only part way to what Beta Testers and others have been asking. Also, does the taskbar still turn black when a window is maximised or does it behave the same as maximized borders?! Just because Microsoft changes 1 of over three dozen odd behaviours in Aero - that doesn't suddenly make microsoft responsive. I can't believe you still think they aren't doing their best. I want my window to be 6 inches thick and white. Joe Blow wants it completely transparent. MS can't listen to every beta tester and give them what they want. Did you even read the blog? Who says MS has only changed one thing? :sleep: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aahz Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 *sigh* I guess they have to leave something for the new TweakUI to do :sleep: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogerjones Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I want my window to be 6 inches thick and white. Joe Blow wants it completely transparent. MS can't listen to every beta tester and give them what they want.Sure they can. As pointed out, they could put a checkbox that completely disables the black maximize effect. Very simple and satisfies a lot of users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Sure they can. As pointed out, they could put a checkbox that completely disables the black maximize effect. Very simple and satisfies a lot of users. its not as simple as a check box though is it? :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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