F1 World Championship 2007 Thread

[simonlang]

This year he made a lot of mistakes under pressure - Canada for example, he kept cutting turn 1. There have been similar races, like Fuji. He has had his moments, but overall he has not driven or acted like the driver he was in 2005 and 2006. Hamilton has put him under a pressure he didn't expect - no drivers expect a strong teammate, let alone a rookie!

well every driver makes some mistake over the year. that's not the point to discuss here. the problem was totally unfair treatment from the team against alonso from race 3 on.

He did not make the McLaren fast and reliable. McLaren have over a thousand employees who do various things on the car - the driver gives feedback which is extremely important.

let me quote one mclaren insider after alonso tested the car for the first time in december:"fernando gave us more information in 1 hour than raikkonen over the whole 5 years."

i can't remember hamilton being able to contribute something valuable to mclaren development simply because it was his first team, he has no idea how other teams operate and fix problems.

The only way in which Alonso "gave" McLaren time was by stealing Ferrari technical information alongside Coughlan and De La Rosa!

and

Well... Hamilton always used a cheated car...

are you people really so ignorant, going through the life totally blind and with tomatos in front of your eyes? it was confirmed TWO TIMES in the verdict that mclaren NEVER NEVER used any single ferrari info. if they did their car would have DNF a lot more often.

it was not alonsos mistake that ferrari has lost control over their own personal. anyway, stepney will publish a book soon where he explains some things.

NO serious expert could understand the verdict but there was still the hope that mclaren, because of the better car, could at least secure 1-2 in drivers championship. but, from spa on nothing worked anymore, the spy affair totally put the team out of control, that was what ferrari expected. like they did in 2006 with renault and their mass dampers. ferrari are the bad losers, not mclaren.

It is common for drivers to share car setups. It has been done since... forever. Think about it what is better:

1) Two cars working on their own setup that will mostly end up the same.

2) One car working on one setup and another working on a different setup, giving both drivers two setup options within the period of time it takes to make just one?

thats totally bull****. if 2 drivers working TOGETHER at 1 setup, that would simply not work, how should it? each driver has a different driving style and f1 aerodynamics are way too complicated for such approach.

setup sharing is usual and there is nothing against it. BUT: it is done if a driver completely fails to find his own setup, let's say if his car stops in first practice on friday and can't be fixed for long time.

but under normal circumstances every driver works for his own setup.

with mclaren it was always like that:

- alonso had to find the setup, hamilton (because he was not experienced ennough) could not find his own one, copied alonsos and then alonso got bad tires for the last qualifying lap or something like that and that brought hamilton in front.

very clean. very nice. very mclaren. no wonder alonso is totally ****ed about that.

Alonso and his supporters should have relished the challenge. Fighting your teammate is the ultimate challenge and can only make a driver stronger. You should be thinking "well Lewis and Kimi beat Fernando this year, but next year he'll show them who's boss".

beating teammates is nothing wrong. but again, it's a question of "how". this year alonso simply had no chances to do his job, because mclaren totally favoured their beloved hamilton.

fernando confirmed it, in the last 2 races his hands were bound he could not do anything anymore, he could not chose his own strategy, not his own setups, not his own tactics. that's not a treatment the youngest 2-times worldchamp deserves.

[Rappy Veteran]

I wonder what the chances are they could disqualify the drivers?...they keep mentioning it on the sports channels that he could still win.

[kyro]

yesss perhaps..somehow...maybe..couldbe..honeybee....hami can win....

[Julius Caro]

They should fine them 15k EUR each and call it a day.

[Fourjays Veteran]

Hamilton will not be awarded the championship. I doubt he will anyway. It would make it a bigger farce than it already is if he was. However, I want to see both of the cars in front receive a punishment of some sort. I'm getting fed-up of the FIAs biased nonsense.

@mclaren2

What unfair treatment? It is a myth invented by Alonso and the Spanish media to cover up his poor ability to deal with a rookie teammate. What happens next season if Alonso goes to Toyota - is everyone in front cheating because he can't keep up?

I'm sure that Alonso did give more information than Raikkonen - Raikkonen is a damn quick driver but he lacks in car and team development. Alonso is a strong car and team developer.

are you people really so ignorant, going through the life totally blind and with tomatos in front of your eyes? it was confirmed TWO TIMES in the verdict that mclaren NEVER NEVER used any single ferrari info. if they did their car would have DNF a lot more often.

it was not alonsos mistake that ferrari has lost control over their own personal. anyway, stepney will publish a book soon where he explains some things.

NO serious expert could understand the verdict but there was still the hope that mclaren, because of the better car, could at least secure 1-2 in drivers championship. but, from spa on nothing worked anymore, the spy affair totally put the team out of control, that was what ferrari expected. like they did in 2006 with renault and their mass dampers. ferrari are the bad losers, not mclaren.

That shows how much you understand the sport, unfortunately. Stealing Ferrari info, does not equal more DNFs. What Coughlan received from Stepney was not data about how to build a car or engine, but information on utilising the bridgestone tyres which helped McLaren adapt quicker.

I agree that Ferrari should have kept better control of their personel and I also agree that Ferrari get biased all the time, however nothing will change there, especially as Mosley wants the next FIA President to be Jean Todt! The mass dampers are a perfect example.

alonso had to find the setup, hamilton (because he was not experienced ennough) could not find his own one, copied alonsos and then alonso got bad tires for the last qualifying lap or something like that and that brought hamilton in front.

Eh? Every few sets, you get a set that doesn't work as well. You most certainly can't tell the good from the bad though, until they are put on the car.

fernando confirmed it, in the last 2 races his hands were bound he could not do anything anymore, he could not chose his own strategy, not his own setups, not his own tactics. that's not a treatment the youngest 2-times worldchamp deserves.

This is ensuring equality. Hamilton was obviously unable to pick his at China either. McLaren forced Hamilton to keep running on well finished tyres so he would be pitted at the scheduled stop.

In seems that people are under the impression that because Alonso has won twice, he should just be gifted every title.

[simonlang]

It is a myth invented by Alonso and the Spanish media to cover up his poor ability to deal with a rookie teammate.

of course. you are 200% right. we know already that every **** the english press publishes is the reality and the spanish press is just making things up. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

unfair treatment is not a myth but a fact. well documented in the spanish press but i have a very serious and quality f1 newspaper (non spanish!) on my desk right next to me where they write about alonso getting wrong tires, wrong tire pressure in the quali in shanghai for example.

is that a myth too? then tell me why alonso was the only one out of the top 4 loosing much more time in his last quali lap without any obvious driving mistake?

What happens next season if Alonso goes to Toyota

then mclaren will be the 2007 renault and toyota the 2007 mclaren. quite simple.

Alonso is a strong car and team developer.

and that is what counts in f1. because if you are able to develop a car you can turn arround teams (bad)luck. like alonso showed with renault and mclaren. and i guess it's the worst sign for any human being if you work 24/7 just to get some things improved and then your boss goes on and praises the cleaning personal for it, not ennough, but your money bonus goes to them as well.

but information on utilising the bridgestone tyres which helped McLaren adapt quicker.

i quote an renault official: "from the first test on in december when everyone got the bs tires for the first time, but still with the 2006 cars, mclaren was quicker out of the box."

so we know that the 2006 cars had totally different weight distribution and mclarens car was build arround michelin tires - still it was quicker on the bs tires. that tells only 2 things:

- mclaren was bad adapted to michelin tires, renault managed that perfectly.

- mclarens car - as it was built by the team itself - had some aspects favouring bs tires over michelin tires and therefore was faster.

even ferrari had some troubles to adapt from 2006 bs specs to 2007 bs specs, massa was shocked about the lack of grip after his first test.

bs published the info that the 2007 spec bs tires were based on 2005 spec, and in 2005 because of tire-change-ban tires had to be harder and used differently. mclaren was the way the fastest car in 2005. so will you invent a story now about mclaren receiving stepney-ferrari-infos in 2005 already? or finally accept that some specs of a car are so genuine that it doesn't need an illegal information transfer but just keeping the concept? (for example mclaren ALWAYS had superiour mechanical grip in modern f1 history, let's say from 98 on - they always had something to show on tracks where it was important, monaco. even in the bad years 2002 or 2006 the track was basically theirs. )

Eh? Every few sets, you get a set that doesn't work as well. You most certainly can't tell the good from the bad though, until they are put on the car.

that might be true. but then we are speaking about 0.1 or 0.2s not about 0.6s each lap. and there is another thing which makes me sceptical about the good tire / bad tire just by luck theory. it happend ALWAYS to alonso and ALWAYS in his 2nd qualifying lap in q3. always there where it was absolutely important to have perfect car and perfect setup and perfect tires.

coincidence? i don't think so.

This is ensuring equality. Hamilton was obviously unable to pick his at China either. McLaren forced Hamilton to keep running on well finished tyres so he would be pitted at the scheduled stop.

alonso spoke about getting his own setup/race strategy. that hami shot his tires in china was his own mistake. that alonso was not allowed to chose his fuel strategy for that race was not alonsos own mistake.

if that's ensuring equality, then so, please if you earn some money give me 50% of it because i earn nothing, and that would be ensuring equality too. :p

In seems that people are under the impression that because Alonso has won twice, he should just be gifted every title

what does that mean? that his first or 2nd title was gifted to him? i remember quite well the things in 2006, the mass damper, monza, hungary, the famous alonso-hater scott andrews punishing him on every occasion he had. but at least renault supported alonso and that brought him the title despite all the bad things.

in 2007 scott andrews again ran his anti-alonso agenda. i really have problems to accept that in the last 2 gps where the wdc deciding is crucial, a man of hamis country is allowed to be one of the 3 race stewards and deciding influencial things.

why was no one of spanish automobile club allowed there? that would have been balanced at least.

instead of that - or going for the most reasonable alternative, to keep the neutral aspect of race stewards just use those of countries not involved in the wdc fight - scott andrews helped hamilton out after his actions in fuji behind the safetycar, helped him out in interlagos twice (in quali after blocking raikkonen and for the race despite he used too much wet-tires on friday by simply ignoring any precedent which was set)

no doubt, the english press is too much in love with hamilton to keep an eye on the facts, but then they wonder why alonso is unhappy, inventing things and doing like hamilton destroyed alonso or such nonsense.

it's simply impossible for any driver to win if the whole team and the whole fia is against you. under such aspects, alonso did great as nearly always and failing to win a 3rd championship, which was fixed very early, by only 1 point is nothing less than impressive.

[Fourjays Veteran]

Believe what you want, I will say no more. It is clear you are unopen to alternatives. As mentioned before, I have fully supported Alonso (he has been my favourite driver since 2003) through from when he first came into the sport. It was the dream team as far I was concerned - my favourite driver and promising new British driver.

This year he hasn't acted the same as he has before though. It has been a difficult year for him, but he hasn't handled himself the way he should have, even if everything he says is completely true.

Many Formula One veterans have said likewise. I think the only one who has 100% agreed with Alonso is Prost - another driver who couldn't handle a strong teammate.

[simonlang]

"we had top driver - despite that we didn't win any title. we made mistakes. we didn't understand fernando, which resulted in him not understanding us.

i never worked with a driver who is so great talented in adapting to different characteristics of a car.

at the end i have to say we left alonso alone - not on the technical side but on the human side."

marc slade - mclarens race engineer

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

Yes !!!!! Kimi was the best this year !!!!

VIVA FERRARI !

i disagree, he did very well (im not jumping on the wagon here) but Hamilton did extremely well, his first year and he is 2nd in the world championship which by ANY standards is amazing and he was only 1 point off 1st

[kyro]

KIMIIIIII :D is DA best..... his car kept crashing on him, engine kept failing... ferrari did not hope for him to win... STILL he wins..... the other guy had his car working for him ALL THE TIME.

So yeaaaaa KIMI is DA besttttt !!!!!! ..... the BEST....... B. E . S . T ...BEST .... :D

KIMIIII ... FERRARIIII ......WOOOHOOOOO.....BEST!!!....

[brentaal]

Fernando Alonso and Vodafone McLaren Mercedes agree to move on

[sundayx Veteran]

It was expected.

[kyro]

awww

[.mcman]

yay, best news ever!

[Fergie]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/11/7076.html

Renault summoned to FIA on December 6th for spying charges on McLaren.

[Trex1024]

bahahah this is just gunna go in circles over and over aye? thats a good messup! teams should learn to do their own work

[Shibby]

Ross Brawn to Honda. ?This is some coup for Honda. I think they will struggle to some extent in the early stages as the 2008 car has been designed. ?So Ross hands are sort of tied at the moment, untill later on in the season when his skills are showing an improvement in Honda. ?

So this may squash any of the recent Button statements saying he would quit if the car fails to improve. ?However, I'm uncertain of Ross opinion on Button.

[Brodel]

Schumacher fastest in testing on F1 return

Michael Schumacher returned to front-line formula one action yesterday when he got behind the wheel of one of this year's world championship-winning Ferrari F2007s at the first of the winter test sessions at Barcelona's Circuit de Catalunya.

The seven-times world champion, who had not driven a grand prix car in competitive action since rounding off his career in Brazil last year, impressed observers by setting the fastest time, more than 0.2sec quicker than the Italian team's test driver, Luca Badoer, after 64 laps of the track.

so we know he isn't returning but it's pretty smooth to just turn up and top the time sheets.

[2xSilverKnight]

bahahah this is just gunna go in circles over and over aye? thats a good messup! teams should learn to do their own work

what are u talking about ?? own work, Renault is the most honest and respected team in Formula 1.

one employee from mclaren bring all this **** by and everyone needs to get stuck in the middle of it ??

there's a difference between spying and trafficking confidential information. When any teams gets something like it,

they know they will be in trouble any way or another. Talk about common sense ?? FIA are so cold blooded.

[Martyn]

Kimi Raikkonen has been confirmed as Formula One world champion after the authorities threw out an appeal by McLaren.

It means the Finn can fully celebrate the championship after pipping McLaren's Lewis Hamilton by a point in the final race of the season.

Hamilton's team had appealed the result of the season-ending Brazilian Grand Prix, believing BMW Sauber and Williams were in breach of the regulations.

If Williams' Nico Rosberg and the BMW Saubers of Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld had been disqualified, that could have resulted in Hamilton being promoted to fourth, and with it taking the title.

Inadmissible

But after a lengthy deliberation following Thursday's hearing in London, the Court of Appeal's four judges decided McLaren's appeal was inadmissible, so finally confirming Raikkonen as world champion.

"Following a report from the technical delegate indicating the temperature of fuel pumped into the cars number nine Nick Heidfeld, number 10 Robert Kubica, number 16 Nico Rosberg and number 17 Kazuki Nakajima, was more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature, the stewards of the meeting met to consider whether a penalty should be imposed," a statement read.

"Having heard the evidence they decided not to impose a penalty as they had sufficient doubt as to both the temperature of the fuel on board the car and to the true ambient temperature.

"Having heard the explanations of both parties and having examined the various documents and other evidence, the court decided that the appeal lodged by Vodafone McLaren Mercedes is inadmissible."

McLaren continually maintained in the build-up to the appeal their motive was for clarity of the regulations, and not for Hamilton to win the title in the courtroom.

However, after initially arguing whether McLaren's case was first admissible, and then the merits of their action, the team's lawyer Ian Mill QC called for disqualifcation of the three drivers and a reclassification of the championship.

Deserved win

Rookie Hamilton led the drivers' championship for much of the season but bombed out in the penultimate Grand Prix in China before suffering mechanical problems in Brazil.

Reflecting on the verdict, Hamilton stated: "As I have said all along, Kimi deserved to win the championship.

"Neither I nor anyone at Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, had any desire to take it off him in court. That was not the purpose of the team's appeal.

"I am now looking forward to the 2008 season and racing Kimi, and all my other rivals, on track."

McLaren had been thrown out of the constructors' championship earlier in the year following a probe into the spying scandal involving Ferrari.

Well, lets hope it is all finally over.

[Fergie]

Todays d-day for Renault.

Personally, I hope they get the same punishment as McLaren.

[.mcman]

Renault escapes penalty

06 December 2007

Renault has been found guilty of breaching the International Sporting Code, but escaped penalty after the FIA's World Motor Sport Council met to consider the case lodged by McLaren in Monaco today.

"The World Council found Renault F1 to be in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code but imposed no penalty," a statement from the FIA read.

"Detailed reasons for this decision will be issued on December 7, 2007, and a transcript of the proceedings will be published as soon as possible thereafter," the short statement concluded.

source

great :sleep:

[Shibby]

Great, lets go and steal everyone else designs but not use them. Because lets face it, "I'm not going to use it" /me do pretty eye flickering

According to Autosport Renault may even take legal action against McLaren.

UGH. It seems McLaren just can't do anything right.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Shibby

[Fergie]

source

great :sleep:

Thats absolute ****. Just shows the FIA bias even more.

[CrashG]

Enough of the spying crap, lets have some damn good racing.

P.S. Build you own car (Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Renault), it's not like you can't afford it.

[sarcasm] but then again, it's cheaper to just steal the info and apply it [/sarcasm].

Taking photos from Pit Lane is one thing (always been done, always will, but being handed (many pages) of Tech. Docs. (whether you use them or not) ain't right.