Bush demands ISPs spy on all users

[Khephren]

We had the RIP Act in the UK where the government here can do the same.

In the name of security and the alledged terrorist threat, our privacy and rights are being erroded.

Just wonder if people's reactions would be the same if it was their snail mail being opened and checked at the neartest sorting depot.

[Atom]

What worries me most about this, Bush does what he wants, GET'S what he wants. Yes I voted for him, but if I knew what was ahead of the country at the time, I would have voted for Gore, or not voted at all. Just the thought of someone monitoring me online, that's a violation of my civil rights in my opinion. What's next? Monitoring phone systems? They probably are already, what's wrong with me. Just think, I'm sure most of you saw Hackers 2 Operation Takedown? S.A.S. system, what if poop like that were real? Is it? Was it? What the hell happend to FREEDOM? Only freedom we have now is in our private homes. I don't know what to think anymore, this is really upsetting to me. I have rights, the internet shouldn't be a place to look for terrorists, I think terrorists are smarter than that now, come on! Maybe I'm wrong on this, maybe not. It's got me nervous. I'll never have a conversation online again. :no:

i dont understand what you guys are so scared of??? so what if hes monitoring me WHO CARES! i know im not doing anything online that im afraid the government might find out. big deal so what if they keep track of a couple of gaming websites and news sites that i go to. hell i hope they keep track of my UT2k3 stats while theyre at it. i have nothing to hide from anyone, and what exactly makes you so important that you just know youll be the first to be monitored by the gov?? your most likely never to be hasseled by the gov. ne way unless you live in the ghetto or your of arab decent....

I see your point, do I agree? NO! The whole point to this discussion is Civil Liberties. Bush is slowly stripping them away, he shouldn't and doesn't have the right to monitor me, you, nor anyone else. He needs probable cause, we all aren't criminals, we all aren't terrorists...

yeah but what if by skimming through all your garbage cookies they actually find a terrorsit? and what if it just saves 1 life. only 1 wouldnt all you liberals think that would be worth it? not to mention the possible MILLIONS it can save. like i said i have nothing to hide so im not worried a bit. i pay taxes i follow *most* of the laws and i vote so they dont have a thing to pin on me

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

i dont understand what you guys are so scared of??? so what if hes monitoring me WHO CARES! i know im not doing anything online that im afraid the government might find out. big deal so what if they keep track of a couple of gaming websites and news sites that i go to. hell i hope they keep track of my UT2k3 stats while theyre at it. i have nothing to hide from anyone, and what exactly makes you so important that you just know youll be the first to be monitored by the gov?? your most likely never to be hasseled by the gov. ne way unless you live in the ghetto or your of arab decent....

It doesn't have to be me, since when does something bad have to happen to ME for it to be bad. We should look out for eachother, not just ourselves. The problem is that even if this administration weren't to abuse these new powers once they're in place there's no stopping say the next one from abusing them. Think about that, maybe the government wont do anything to you, but maybe your children.

[jbarcus81]

you do think they will stop there? that is the START dude!! the kick off to start the 100% pure control over our lives. it starts with "small" things then moves to little bigger and bigger..

:woot: :woot: :woot: i really hope your joking. cmon b serious. 100% control of our lives???? :D look ill start a revolution as soon as they decide to start censoring the GTA's but not because theyre looking at some lame cookies in my browser... lets not be conspiracy theroists here ;)

Conspiracy Theory? This administration has shown that it will stop at NOTHING to get what it wants.

[Atom]

It came off as though you don't care if Arab people are harassed or people in the ghetto are either. As much as we may look down upon them, their lives are equal to ours. It is so important that we keep our rights for everyone, not just the elite anglo saxon aristocrats.

Piece by piece the government has indulged in taking away rights since 9/11. We never should have changed a thing. But alas, the fascism of the current administration now can flex it's muscle by pillaging the memory of our perished comrades who died on that day...

look im a latino in southern california. i do know a little about harrassment by the po. but i know they dont have anything on me so they cant touch me. i dont hassle them they leave well enuff alone. civil rights have been impeded in the ghettos for decades but only now that its happening in the american suburbs is it getting the attention it deserves. if you grow up w/ it you learn to deal w/ it.

[Atom]

Conspiracy Theory? This administration has shown that it will stop at NOTHING to get what it wants.

grrrr. ok ok the american government is out to get us (the american people) and only us. they obviously hate us and feel the need to methodically strip away our rights. they hate us so bad that they are going to these extreme measures just to make us uncomfterable. pleeeeeaaaaaase get over yourselves. the goernment is not comming after you!!

[Fotix]

It came off as though you don't care if Arab people are harassed or people in the ghetto are either.  As much as we may look down upon them, their lives are equal to ours.  It is so important that we keep our rights for everyone, not just the elite anglo saxon aristocrats.

Piece by piece the government has indulged in taking away rights since 9/11.  We never should have changed a thing.  But alas, the fascism of the current administration now can flex it's muscle by pillaging the memory of our perished comrades who died on that day...

look im a latino in southern california. i do know a little about harrassment by the po. but i know they dont have anything on me so they cant touch me. i dont hassle them they leave well enuff alone. civil rights have been impeded in the ghettos for decades but only now that its happening in the american suburbs is it getting the attention it deserves. if you grow up w/ it you learn to deal w/ it.

So the solution is to throw up our hands and accept it? Uh uh. Not me. I'm printing out copies of Bush administration news stories as we speak and am going to give them to my family and friends over the holidays. That's how each one of us can start to make a difference. And vote for the opposition at the next election.

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

yeah but what if by skimming through all your garbage cookies they actually find a terrorsit? and what if it just saves 1 life. only 1 wouldnt all you liberals think that would be worth it? not to mention the possible MILLIONS it can save. like i said i have nothing to hide so im not worried a bit. i pay taxes i follow *most* of the laws and i vote so they dont have a thing to pin on me

Thing is it wont. Scanning my cookies won't stop a terrorist, it won't save one person. Reading my email wont save one person.

And as I said before it's just not privacy that's not even the larger issue at work here. The larger issue is that it's now acceptable to be held with trial, without being charged, and without legal representation.

It's the trend that worries me not this single act. It's is now acceptable for someone to be guilty before having any tangible evidence whatsoever.

[jbarcus81]

It came off as though you don't care if Arab people are harassed or people in the ghetto are either.  As much as we may look down upon them, their lives are equal to ours.  It is so important that we keep our rights for everyone, not just the elite anglo saxon aristocrats.

Piece by piece the government has indulged in taking away rights since 9/11.  We never should have changed a thing.  But alas, the fascism of the current administration now can flex it's muscle by pillaging the memory of our perished comrades who died on that day...

look im a latino in southern california. i do know a little about harrassment by the po. but i know they dont have anything on me so they cant touch me. i dont hassle them they leave well enuff alone. civil rights have been impeded in the ghettos for decades but only now that its happening in the american suburbs is it getting the attention it deserves. if you grow up w/ it you learn to deal w/ it.

Atom I understand where your coming from. BUT. I don't care, ghetto or not, Civil rights are Civil rights, just because I didn't grow up in a damn ghetto? Who are you to say that we're only saying this now because we're living in the suburbs?!? I don't know what to say.. :cry:

[jbarcus81]

Atom, example. ATF, FBI bash your door in, arrest you, maybe read your rights. Have you done anything? No. You ever done anything? No. Do you understand what we are all discussing here? If they get any more control over us.. it will be Guilty untill proven innocent. Hell it already is. I live in a small town where this really isn't taken too seriously. It will be now, I will post posters in every store window, on every pole... I will not stop, my friends will not stop, you all should do the same! I have rights that I want to keep. I know I'm not alone.

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

And the sad thing NeoXP is when you do that, alot of people are gonna think of you as some kind of liberal, unpatriotic pansie.

You know what I like? Is how we as Americans are always running our mouths saying we have certain rights, the constitution protects certain rights, blah, blah, blah. You don't have any freaking birthrites people, they can be taken away as easily as they are given, and if you don't protect your rights, you lose them. It's as simple as that. And if you stop paying attention a piece of paper in a glass box aint gonna do nothing for you.

So just pay attention people. That's all. I don't know if the gov is gonna go all 1984 on us, but just pay attention.

[Atom]

Atom, example. ATF, FBI bash your door in, arrest you, maybe read your rights. Have you done anything? No. You ever done anything? No. Do you understand what we are all discussing here? If they get any more control over us.. it will be Guilty untill proven innocent. Hell it already is. I live in a small town where this really isn't taken too seriously. It will be now, I will post posters in every store window, on every pole... I will not stop, my friends will not stop, you all should do the same! I have rights that I want to keep. I know I'm not alone.

i applaud your vigilance. but cmon THEY ARE NOT OUT TO GET US. and how do you know stumbling on a group of cookies that have a trail on anarchaist cookbooks and other bomb creating material wouldnt help out the FBI? you dont even know this to be a fact so please dont spout it off like it is... you guys can go ahead and print up fliers, post posters, start rallies, all that stuff but its not going to matter because you represent such a small portion of public opinion you will be written off as an extremist.

ok so they come and bash in my door, spend all this money and manpower on me when ive done absolutley nothing :happy: so what theirs a big ruckus they cant prove anything i sue the government for violations of my rights and i live fat and happy off gov paychecks doesnt sound like a bad scenario

[cerbero]

I'm so glad I don't live in America. And I've become more and more glad ever since 9/11.

Bush is taking away a lot of you guys' rights, and I wonder where it'll stop. I mean.. The land of the free? If Bush has his way you would have state-controlled media and who knows what else.

I urge all americans to go out and protest.

[jbarcus81]

And the sad thing NeoXP is when you do that, alot of people are gonna think of you as some kind of liberal, unpatriotic pansie.

You know what I like? Is how we as Americans are always running our mouths saying we have certain rights, the constitution protects certain rights, blah, blah, blah. You don't have any freaking birthrites people, they can be taken away as easily as they are given, and if you don't protect your rights, you lose them. It's as simple as that. And if you stop paying attention a piece of paper in a glass box aint gonna do nothing for you.

So just pay attention people. That's all. I don't know if the gov is gonna go all 1984 on us, but just pay attention.

But see this is where I get confused, calling me, a republican Liberal? If I understand correctly Liberal's want BIG Government, I don't. This whole situation is upsetting to me, and I saw this coming since 9/11... Bush want's too much control. I honestly don't know what else to say. And yes, we are born with rights, The Decleration of Independance, and The Constitution say so. Are they protected? Not any more. If I'm wrong on anything please re-inform me. I feel wronged, dissapointed.. What's next? Random phone taps? FBI agents at the post office? What's to come of this if congress vote yes? I mean seriously, I understand what Bush is trying to do, but at what expense? We become Socialist? Or worse Communist? I might be going a little far here, but poop. :cry:

[Atom]

I'm so glad I don't live in America. And I've become more and more glad ever since 9/11.

Bush is taking away a lot of you guys' rights, and I wonder where it'll stop. I mean.. The land of the free? If Bush has his way you would have state-controlled media and who knows what else.

I urge all americans to go out and protest.

haha thats wonderful. and where do u live again? it doesnt really matter because no matter where your from its still not the US :happy:

[Fotix]

I'm so glad I don't live in America. And I've become more and more glad ever since 9/11.

Bush is taking away a lot of you guys' rights, and I wonder where it'll stop. I mean.. The land of the free? If Bush has his way you would have state-controlled media and who knows what else.

I urge all americans to go out and protest.

Yeah, gotta love the strategy he employs.

Terrorists POed that America's military is all over their lands, so they attack ours -> Bush solution: More military all over their lands, creating more terrorists.

Bush says terrorists hate our freedoms so we have to protect them -> Bush solution: Take away piece by piece of the Bill of Rights

Brilliant, Dubya, brilliant. And your Pentagon henchmen too.

[Atom]

But see this is where I get confused, calling me, a republican Liberal? If I understand correctly Liberal's want BIG Government, I don't. This whole situation is upsetting to me, and I saw this coming since 9/11... Bush want's too much control. I honestly don't know what else to say. And yes, we are born with rights, The Decleration of Independance, and The Constitution say so. Are they protected? Not any more. If I'm wrong on anything please re-inform me. I feel wronged, dissapointed.. What's next? Random phone taps? FBI agents at the post office? What's to come of this if congress vote yes? I mean seriously, I understand what Bush is trying to do, but at what expense? We become Socialist? Or worse Communist? I might be going a little far here, but poop. :cry:

look bush is our president. and whether you like him or not he is laying the smack across the rest of the worlds face to keep us safe. sure he might have taken it a little to far but id rather have him be over protective then underprotective wouldnt you? and every1 is treating this as a permanent thing. i belive that it will only be temporary until all this is settled out and the US and GB run the rest of the world :D

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

Atom your not getting are point's.

Again the internet monitoring isn't the big picture.

And take the 9/11 attacks for example. They had plenty of evidence already, enough to where they should have at least been onto a case. True they might not have put it all together in time we can never know since it's all in the past, but the agencies we have now are set up so ignorantly. The homeland security can be a good thing, and I think it is. It's a good idea for agencies to share information and leads on known criminals. And if they'd done this correctly from the start we may not be where we are today. We don't kneed more information, they just need to use it better. Do I blame them for the past? No, of course not, thats stupid.

Also the checks and balance system doesn't really work all that great when you only have 2 real parties. All these people are a big circle of like minded thinkers, when there's a mojority of like minded thinkers, or just people who want to be in power all together under the same banner anything can happen. So because these things aren't misused today they very easily can be tomorrow.

As for explosive guides and crap on the internet, the planes were hijacked by box cutters, unless the gov gets rid of cardboard and razors, I don't see your point. I am all for spying on known criminals and suspected criminals when the right measures have been taken, but they're taking out the measures, and that's what I think is wrong.

[Atom]

Terrorists POed that America's military is all over their lands, so they attack ours -> Bush solution: More military all over their lands, creating more terrorists.

Bush says terrorists hate our freedoms so we have to protect them -> Bush solution: Take away piece by piece of the Bill of Rights

Brilliant, Dubya, brilliant. And your Pentagon henchmen too.

so exactly how many troops did we have stationed in afgan that po'ed osama enuff to nail us?? cmon dont be a blind liberal who listens to all the propoganda

[John S. Veteran]

Yeah, gotta love the strategy he employs.

Terrorists POed that America's military is all over their lands, so they attack ours -> Bush solution: More military all over their lands, creating more terrorists.

Bush says terrorists hate our freedoms so we have to protect them -> Bush solution: Take away piece by piece of the Bill of Rights

Brilliant, Dubya, brilliant. And your Pentagon henchmen too.

1. Perhaps you have neglected to notice the scores of people responsible for the attack on innocent Americans of 9/11 that have been caught or killed.

2. Where in the Bill of Rights does it state that we have unfettered access to the Internet through phone/cable lines that we do not own?

3. The ones crying the loudest about this obviously are doing things they shouldn't, why else would they care?

Over the past 30 years or so we have gradually became more and more lax in our borders, our security, our airports, our assumption that the guy working at the 7/11 just wanted the American way of life. We paid for that slackness on 9/11. I'm glad we have a President with the balls to stand up and do something substantial about it instead of bombing aspirin factories when another bimbo comes out of the closet claiming to have had sex with him.

[iCe_2x]

What worries me most about this, Bush does what he wants, GET'S what he wants. Yes I voted for him, but if I knew what was ahead of the country at the time, I would have voted for Gore, or not voted at all. Just the thought of someone monitoring me online, that's a violation of my civil rights in my opinion. What's next? Monitoring phone systems? They probably are already, what's wrong with me. Just think, I'm sure most of you saw Hackers 2 Operation Takedown? S.A.S. system, what if poop like that were real? Is it? Was it? What the hell happend to FREEDOM? Only freedom we have now is in our private homes. I don't know what to think anymore, this is really upsetting to me. I have rights, the internet shouldn't be a place to look for terrorists, I think terrorists are smarter than that now, come on! Maybe I'm wrong on this, maybe not. It's got me nervous. I'll never have a conversation online again. :no:

i dont understand what you guys are so scared of??? so what if hes monitoring me WHO CARES! i know im not doing anything online that im afraid the government might find out. big deal so what if they keep track of a couple of gaming websites and news sites that i go to. hell i hope they keep track of my UT2k3 stats while theyre at it. i have nothing to hide from anyone, and what exactly makes you so important that you just know youll be the first to be monitored by the gov?? your most likely never to be hasseled by the gov. ne way unless you live in the ghetto or your of arab decent....

Alright.. I'm of arab decent... I don't think they can touch me.... cauz they ain' got nottin on me... ur makin a very general statement about arabs.. I wouldn't do that... Do you know how many arabs live around you?? :no: :no: :no:

Don't say something your unsure of... and for your information, Osama isn't Arab... :woot:

Edit: About the topic.. I think this is crap ;)

[Fotix]

Terrorists POed that America's military is all over their lands, so they attack ours -> Bush solution: More military all over their lands, creating more terrorists.

Bush says terrorists hate our freedoms so we have to protect them -> Bush solution: Take away piece by piece of the Bill of Rights

Brilliant, Dubya, brilliant.  And your Pentagon henchmen too.

so exactly how many troops did we have stationed in afgan that po'ed osama enuff to nail us?? cmon dont be a blind liberal who listens to all the propoganda

You're not even worth responding to any more. I advise everyone else to do the same. Thanks, play again next time.

[John S. Veteran]

Don't say something your unsure of... and for your information, Osama isn't Arab...:woot:t:

Edit: About the topic.. I think this is crap;);)

I neither agree with or tolerate racism but Osama was born in Saudi Arabia. Wouldn't that make him an Arab?

[Atom]

Atom your not getting are point's.

Again the internet monitoring isn't the big picture.

And take the 9/11 attacks for example. They had plenty of evidence already, enough to where they should have at least been onto a case. True they might not have put it all together in time we can never know since it's all in the past, but the agencies we have now are set up so ignorantly. The homeland security can be a good thing, and I think it is. It's a good idea for agencies to share information and leads on known criminals. And if they'd done this correctly from the start we may not be where we are today. We don't kneed more information, they just need to use it better. Do I blame them for the past? No, of course not, thats stupid.

Also the checks and balance system doesn't really work all that great when you only have 2 real parties. All these people are a big circle of like minded thinkers, when there's a mojority of like minded thinkers, or just people who want to be in power all together under the same banner anything can happen. So because these things aren't misused today they very easily can be tomorrow.

As for explosive guides and crap on the internet, the planes were hijacked by box cutters, unless the gov gets rid of cardboard and razors, I don't see your point. I am all for spying on known criminals and suspected criminals when the right measures have been taken, but they're taking out the measures, and that's what I think is wrong.

im not really sure which post your describing but its obvious were getting no where. i understand taht our rights are being taken away but until i see something completely blatant that will in no way further the protection of our country will i stand up against it. if you dont like whats going on your SOL. sorry to say but its true

[iCe_2x]

Don't say something your unsure of... and for your information, Osama isn't Arab... &nbs:woot:t:

Edit: About the topic.. I think this is crap &nbs;);)

I neither agree with or tolerate racism but Osama was born in Saudi Arabia. Wouldn't that make him an Arab?

Techinically... But he isnt stayin in a arab country is he? [Afghanistan].. In my opinion 9/11 is because of the Israel-Palestine conflict...