acies Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Many humans simply do not look.Others ignore the evidence, because of their personal beliefs -- they don't want to know. Many 'scientifically' minded say, 'We don't know how to get there from here, so no other intelligent Life can'. Governments actively surpress the volumes of evidence, and even promote disinformation about Visitors. And the Aliens that are visiting planet Earth are selective with whom they have contact. ;) Well whether or not aliens have visited Earth, there will always be people saying they have, and there are some strange stories out there, but there also alot of strange people. So until I shake hands with ET(or he anally probes me :x ), am undecided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted July 18, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 18, 2007 I am sure there is life out in space. There is probably bacteria and other simple structures just about everywhere. There may very well even be intelligent life. I do not think the conditions on our planet are unique. I do not think our location is in any way special in the grand scheme of things. We're located on the western spiral arm of the milky way galaxy. We certainly are not in the centre of our galaxy (or the universe for that matter). That being said, the distances between stars are so vast that meaningful interaction with other intelligent species is extremely unlikely to happen. Space is big. Very, very big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I am sure there is life out in space. There is probably bacteria and other simple structures just about everywhere. There may very well even be intelligent life. I do not think the conditions on our planet are unique. I do not think our location is in any way special in the grand scheme of things. We're located on the western spiral arm of the milky way galaxy. We certainly are not in the centre of our galaxy (or the universe for that matter).That being said, the distances between stars are so vast that meaningful interaction with other intelligent species is extremely unlikely to happen. Space is big. Very, very big. Ah, but our planet is very small. There are some that are so far bigger than ours its impossible to imagin without seeing it with our own eyes. Now what if the living beings on that planet where also bigger, that would mean that for them, the universe was not so big? I am sure that are infinate possibilities here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guru Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 They have a speed limit, and due to the vast distances between planets in space, messages would take thousands of years to reach other solar systems.If we get lucky, and there is life around the next sun, the round trip time is only around 8.4 years. now if they sent that signal 9 years back we'd pick it up by now, right. or a planet thats 1000 light years away. where intell life sent out signal abt 2000 years back.. should have reached earth by now huh. even we dont send a signal to them or they to us. couldn't we pickup something when we scan our frequencies... like those walkie talkies do for the police.. The messages 1 guy sent to the other can be heard by the other police that are tuned in. even if we assume atleast 1% of all possible species are way more advanced than us. couldnt they have found some workarounds/ new way of communicating / transmitting to a destination... like Rich said in the earlier post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas-c Veteran Posted July 18, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 18, 2007 Thing is there may well be life out there we cant see, just because they arn't human (they might even be! ) then doesn't mean they have greater or equal technology, if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Wang Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Ah, but at the same time, these are speed limits set out by our own technological constraints. Take in to account the fact that aliens could be using far superior technology that may allow them to send information from one planet to another in a nano second, just like we can email someone the other side of the world in seconds. Light is information, which is why computers actually have an upper limit on data transfer that will probably be reached one day unless quantum computing is used. These constraints are set by the universe unfortunately and there doesn't seem to be a way of bending them to our advantage yet, if ever. According to what we know so far, information technically cannot travel faster than the speed of light which means communication with a distant species would be extremely slow. We also kind of have to assume life is water reliant and carbon based on other planets simply because this is the only form of life we actually know can exist, it's best to seek out planets and moons with water and an atmosphere similar to ours before first, it just makes sense to do it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remix17 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Nothing can travel faster than light; if it did, it would violate causality. There's no reason whatsoever to suggest that faster-than-light travel/communication is possible. Quantum Entanglement holds some promise for instantaneous communication though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted July 19, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 19, 2007 Ah, but at the same time, these are speed limits set out by our own technological constraints. Take in to account the fact that aliens could be using far superior technology that may allow them to send information from one planet to another in a nano second, just like we can email someone the other side of the world in seconds. As said above me, the issue is a fundamental aspect of the universe, short of ripping the universe a new one (using massive amounts of energy, if it's even possible), information (light and such) can only ever go so fast. now if they sent that signal 9 years back we'd pick it up by now, right. or a planet thats 1000 light years away. where intell life sent out signal abt 2000 years back.. should have reached earth by now huh. even we dont send a signal to them or they to us. couldn't we pickup something when we scan our frequencies... like those walkie talkies do for the police.. The messages 1 guy sent to the other can be heard by the other police that are tuned in. even if we assume atleast 1% of all possible species are way more advanced than us. couldnt they have found some workarounds/ new way of communicating / transmitting to a destination... like Rich said in the earlier post If they sent a message 2000 years ago, we would have received it 1000 years ago (i said the round trip time, direct distance is half that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Light is information, which is why computers actually have an upper limit on data transfer that will probably be reached one day unless quantum computing is used. These constraints are set by the universe unfortunately and there doesn't seem to be a way of bending them to our advantage yet, if ever.According to what we know so far, information technically cannot travel faster than the speed of light which means communication with a distant species would be extremely slow. We also kind of have to assume life is water reliant and carbon based on other planets simply because this is the only form of life we actually know can exist, it's best to seek out planets and moons with water and an atmosphere similar to ours before first, it just makes sense to do it that way. Nothing can travel faster than light; if it did, it would violate causality. There's no reason whatsoever to suggest that faster-than-light travel/communication is possible. Quantum Entanglement holds some promise for instantaneous communication though. I still go by my own personal line of thought, that just because this is how we see things now and these are things we know, does not mean that other species out there have discoverd new ways of doing things. Just because things can only travel at the speed of light does not mean they have not found a way to travel long distances in seconds using another method, rather than just travelling fast. I mean what about folding space etc? Maybe they have found a way to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Veteran Posted July 19, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 19, 2007 It could just be that Earth is the most advanced planet so far. Wouldn't that be tragic? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 It could just be that Earth is the most advanced planet so far. Considering the almost unimaginable size of the universe this is extremely unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Veteran Posted July 19, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 19, 2007 Considering the almost unimaginable size of the universe this is extremely unlikely. But still 100% possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 But still 100% possible. Well, yes - considering we have no proof of the existance of life outside our own. Somthing being 100% possible is saying there is definately a chance, it doesnt mean its likely. If you ever are in NYC i would recommend a visit to the science section of the National History Museum in Manhattan, there is a show there that is done in a cinematic presentation that shows us how large the universe is in context with our own little solar system. The Milky Way is huge yet merely a grain of sand in the grand scheme of things, so all this taken into consideration, i find it more likely than not that were are a) not alone and b) Rather primative in comparsion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted July 19, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 19, 2007 Time is also a factor. As our civilization improves the chance of us doing something catastrophic to ourselves increases. Great civilizations may "wink out" fairly quickly. In a cosmic timescale we only left the safety of the trees a blink of an eye ago. Detectability is also a problem. Radio broadcasts (that bleed into space) are less than 100 years old and they, in short time, may be entirely replaced with targeted orbit to ground transmissions that would be much harder to detect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Time is also a factor. As our civilization improves the chance of us doing something catastrophic to ourselves increases. Great civilizations may "wink out" fairly quickly. In a cosmic timescale we only left the safety of the trees a blink of an eye ago Yes, good point. Civilizations that may have had life in the past may no longer exist, and may have been extinct for millions of years, however i still feel that the sizr of the universe is that if for example you throw a thousand pebbles on the floor, chances are that more than one group of pebbles will be in a suitable formation, ie as in with the formation of the planets around a sun to support life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted July 19, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 19, 2007 Yes, good point. Civilizations that may have had life in the past may no longer exist, and may have been extinct for millions of years, however i still feel that the sizr of the universe is that if for example you throw a thousand pebbles on the floor, chances are that more than one group of pebbles will be in a suitable formation, ie as in with the formation of the planets around a sun to support life. Yes, I believe that life (including bacteria and whatnot) is like quite rampant in space. The odds of us ever encountering another intelligent civilization is almost minimal with time and space being the major factors. Of course someone more clever than I would probably suggest that time is space and space is time but I'll leave that alone for now because I don't want to bring on a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Yes, I believe that life (including bacteria and whatnot) is like quite rampant in space. The odds of us ever encountering another intelligent civilization is almost minimal with time and space being the major factors.Of course someone more clever than I would probably suggest that time is space and space is time but I'll leave that alone for now because I don't want to bring on a headache. Time=Space Space=Time Time IS Space Space IS time Spacetime timespace aceimpace Ah, you just killed some of my preccious brain cells! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 But still 100% possible. I for one doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusuf M. Veteran Posted July 25, 2007 Veteran Share Posted July 25, 2007 Well, it is possible for bacteria to survive the harsh environments of space. Knowing that it's also possible that bacteria can be found on or in a comet, that is to assume that the comet contains liquid water and organic materials. Perhaps this is how life began on Earth and, quite possibly, on countless planets in our galaxy. Read up on Panspermia, it's quite interesting. Bacteria such as Deinococcus radiodurans can survive extreme radiation exposure in the core of a nuclear reactor. The real question is -- can intelligent life exist outside of our solar system? It's an interesting question because the way humans, or any other animal, gained intelligence is through evolutionary adaptation. Is it possible, as I type this post, that life similar to that found on Earth is evolving on another planet? I think it is undoubtedly possible. If only we as a species could live long enough to actually communicate with intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. One species evolves, sends a message, goes extinct. Another species does the same, and another, etc. And of course there's the idea that an intelligent form of life superior to ours exists but decides not to communicate with us. The way we wouldn't really communicate with a lower species like a chimpanzee. Observation is sometimes better than intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Wang Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I don't think any species no matter how advanced would think of us as we do chimpanzee's, one things all space faring beings would have in common is sentience to a level where the exchanging of abstract and complicated ideas could happen, we can't do this with any chimps. Even if they are vastly superior to us in intellect we could grasp notions and concepts willingly, a chimp just picks it's bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGS4-SS Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I don't think any species no matter how advanced would think of us as we do chimpanzee's, one things all space faring beings would have in common is sentience to a level where the exchanging of abstract and complicated ideas could happen, we can't do this with any chimps. Even if they are vastly superior to us in intellect we could grasp notions and concepts willingly, a chimp just picks it's bum. The only problem with your logic is that you talk about chimps as retarded kids that scratch their butts, while in reality chimps can craft tools to make their some aspects of their life easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Wang Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 The only problem with your logic is you focused on the joke I threw in to keep the topic light-hearted. Chimpanzee's cannot grasp the idea of universal truths or constants, you can't teach a chimp Pi, you can't teach a chimp the idea of infinity. We can grasp these and conceive them somewhat even if we can't perceive them, abstract thought in this way would allow us to communicate with creatures infinitely more intelligent than us simply because we are capable of understanding they are more intelligent than us and we possess the power of empathetic thought. A chimp is living in a chimp world, but we have attained a level of self-consciousness that gives us access to some of the universal truths that any advanced civilization would need to know in order to traverse space or to communicate with us remotely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guru Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 And of course there's the idea that an intelligent form of life superior to ours exists but decides not to communicate with us. The way we wouldn't really communicate with a lower species like a chimpanzee. Observation is sometimes better than intervention. possible but intelligent species should be would be able to detect the effects of life. things that are possible only with life...even if they dont want to communicate. kinda like looking at the plume of smoke in the forest and deducing someone oughta be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 possible but intelligent species should be would be able to detect the effects of life. But by what means? Your use of the term intelligent ( in this case) is highly subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Wang Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 At least as intelligent as us and have technology at least on a par with ours is my personal definition in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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