Denon say Blu-Ray Profile 1.1 discs may not play on 1.0 players


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I don't see this being as big of a deal as you guys are making it out to be. Worst possible scenario? Someone can't play a few extra features. Sony does some stupid things, but even they would know it's be format suicide to break compatibility completely.

You mean like Sony stating that the PS3 will have native compatability with PS2 and PS1 titles and then removing the emotion engine?

The native compatability was one of the few reasons that I respected Sony with the PS3, as soon as I heard that they were yanking it I went straight for the XBox360 since they have at least been honest and have been steadily releasing more emulation profiles for games.

You mean like Sony stating that the PS3 will have native compatability with PS2 and PS1 titles and then removing the emotion engine?

The native compatability was one of the few reasons that I respected Sony with the PS3, as soon as I heard that they were yanking it I went straight for the XBox360 since they have at least been honest and have been steadily releasing more emulation profiles for games.

Read the post above yours: It will still play the actual movie.

Your analogy is also off. If you wanted to compare this to the PS3's backwards compatibility with the PS2 library, then we'd have to be discussing the possibility of blu-ray players no longer playing DVDs.

Wow people here..truly unbelievable..

First of all, let's make something clear. This is being stated by Jeff Talmadge, Denon's Director of Product Development and Systems Integration, not me. So please, lay off the personal attacks.

Second, Denon being the ONLY Blu-RAy player with 1.1 I'm inclined to believe him more then Sony or CE companies who's money is tied up into Blu-Ray. Of course, it's not a big deal when you have ALL Blu-Ray players with 1.0 Profile.

I find it very interesting how people justify that you would be paying $600 player to NOT have all features of the disc. Unbelievable. It's ok to just play a feature film only? Wow...

Btw, there's more to playback compatibility between Profile 1.0 and 1.1 players. If there's BD-J code that takes advantage of some special things on the disc, like menu navigation and similar, the WHOLE disc might not play. Even though this is highly unlikely it can happen. Thought it might be fixable by firmware update, on the other hand, it might not. We will have to see, but you know what, I personally have a problem betting that everythign will be peachy by paying something $500-$600. But hey, you know, somehow people supporting Blu-Ray are fine with all that.

Out of ~300 Blu-ray releases only ~24 have actually used BD-J in some capacity on the disc. The other 275 discs have used DVD-like menu structure (pre-rendered motion, or only a still image) that does not require or use BD-J. I was told only 8 or so new BD-J titles were currently being worked on. Out of the two dozen or so titles that did use BD-J, many of them were the discs that many people had problems playing, such as slow to load, features that don't work, player compatbilities, etc. Some of the notable titles are Descent, 2 PotC's, Speed, LXG, and Crank, all of which had problems of some nature. This is a good sign of the dangers of Profiles, especially with BD-J and Profile 1.1.

Edited by Boz

Boz, not for nothing, besides a few outtakes on a DVD or two, I've never used the extra features and I'm quite sure a majority of people are with me in that. Most of us just want to see the movie.

Boz, not for nothing, besides a few outtakes on a DVD or two, I've never used the extra features and I'm quite sure a majority of people are with me in that. Most of us just want to see the movie.

Well you know what, that's you. To say, that for everyone else this is irrelevant is a bit irresponsible right? If you don't have a problem with it, that's fine, but there's a large percentage of people out there that value this as obviously we wouldn't have these extras on regular DVDs to begin with correct? Especially when you pay $600 for a player. Would you be happy if you paid $40k for a car and it's hi-fi system didn't work inside? You can still drive it, but those accessories inside are simply not working right or not at all. Come on.

The problem we are facing here is lack of objectiveness and a lot of self-centered consumers who are very hypocritical when it comes to mass features as THEY simply don't need it.

Second, Denon being the ONLY Blu-RAy player with 1.1 I'm inclined to believe him more then Sony or CE companies who's money is tied up into Blu-Ray. Of course, it's not a big deal when you have ALL Blu-Ray players with 1.0 Profile.

Surely because they have the ONLY Blu-Ray 1.1 player they'd be more likely to big up the issue in order to sell their player?

NEway, it seems you're picking on anything and everything to criticise Blu-Ray. I expect new technology to have issues, particularly as complicated as this generation - early DVD players had very poor navigation controls and were often very slow with menus. We're not talking about something unique to Blu-Ray that spells the downfall of the entire format - we're talking about relatively small issues (that obviously shouldn't be there - I'm not defending them). A lot of problems can at least be solved with firmware updates which most, if not all, players support. Missing hardware features are more of an issue and could be a lot more serious. Basically the PS3 is the model for other players to base themselves on - if the PS3 can't play discs then there will be serious troubles.

But what he is saying is that there is also a large percentage of us who just buy the movie to do just that: watch the movie

Bonus features are nice, but my assumption would seem to wander towards: If you surveyed each and every individual on this planet regarding special features of a movie, probably 1/3 would say it's important or very important to have them. The other 2/3 could probably don't care a single bit. Again, just an assumption and a guess at numbers.

And I've always wondered while media players are sat side by side with cars in analogies. One is used to get you places, the other keeps you in one spot! :laugh:

I don't see this being as big of a deal as you guys are making it out to be. Worst possible scenario? Someone can't play a few extra features. Sony does some stupid things, but even they would know it's be format suicide to break compatibility completely.

What should concern us if any newer pressed discs begin to utilize "Deep Color" which is a different video tech spec than what current players can currently decode. Though I doubt it will happen soon, I beleive it is possible, as the spec has been certified and is being marketed as a the "next big video thing" which no one can even use :p

Would you be happy if you paid $40k for a car and it's hi-fi system didn't work inside? You can still drive it, but those accessories inside are simply not working right or not at all.

To be honest, I would laugh at the person who insisted it was hi-fi to begin with, knowing that most cars in the price range come with a bose system, and its far from being considered hi-fi :p There could be a nice system possibly, but no where near that realm.

Don't even start with VHS vs HD.

Ok, how about D-VHS ;)

Edited by GOJI_GKing2000
But what he is saying is that there is also a large percentage of us who just buy the movie to do just that: watch the movie

Bonus features are nice, but my assumption would seem to wander towards: If you surveyed each and every individual on this planet regarding special features of a movie, probably 1/3 would say it's important or very important to have them. The other 2/3 could probably don't care a single bit. Again, just an assumption and a guess at numbers.

And I've always wondered while media players are sat side by side with cars in analogies. One is used to get you places, the other keeps you in one spot! :laugh:

You see I understand what you are saying. However the problem is that you really don't know whether you'll like these new features or not right? I mean we've never seen this type of interactivity, information, add-ons, videos, intermixed content with the movie so you can see every aspect of the movie making or the history behind the movie. 300 on HD DVD is a perfect example of this new age of movie watching. Actually you've probably didn't get a chance to really see either way because Blu-Ray simply doesn't have them. It is important to note that these features ARE COMING to Blu-Ray but are now completely dismissed because Blu-Ray can't do them. Once they become available, there will be people going around yelling, OMG you gotta see this and this on Blu-ray it's so cool. We both know it's gonna happen.

So when I see people making statements like this, it's for 2 reasons only. One is that they REALLY don't care about anything like that (which is a shame), because you are really not a serious movie fan if you don't at least watch interesting facts behind the movie etc etc. For me personally that's the whole experience. I often find myself watching the movie with friends. But on some weekends, I sit down and just go explore these discs with features to find out great stuff. Don't forget, this interactive part is just getting really interesting on HD DVD, while it's non-existant on Blu-ray for at least next year and a half or two.

The second type of people who are speaking against features, are actually aware that this is something very unique that HD brings us. Online connectivity, extra online services offered directly through our players, engaging content that is always up to date with our discs regardless if the disc is 2-3 years old etc etc, but they choose to speak badly of it as it ruins their reality of Blu-Ray as unfinished format and demotes HD DVD advantages as it is obviously a very thoroughly thought out format.

Again, I will say, slightly higher bitrate and larger capacity that have shown so far absolutely NO benefit for our viewing experience are completely irrelevant in this world of mp3s, mp4s and iTunes and Apple TVs and Windows Media Centers and PC speakers etc etc. Optical media will be completely phased out and investing in this technology in order to increase size or something is completely ridiculous. Persistent storage on our living room devices and online content with ultra large capacity USB devices that are small enough will take over. This is already happening today, and you can imagine in 5 years from now. If anything, the future brings us real time content, being renderer, created on-fly.

This is why Blu-Ray for example will mean even less for PS3s as new game engines and stuff will be completely real-time generated. The processing power of both PS3 and X360 are tremendous and creating huge 3d animations that take gigabytes and gigabytes of space are now completely rendered in real-time.

Think about it. HD DVD extra features are much more then HD itself and even though it is in early stages now, it carries amazing potential that goes beyond just gag reels and commentary like on regular DVDs.

You see I understand what you are saying. However the problem is that you really don't know whether you'll like these new features or not right? I mean we've never seen this type of interactivity, information, add-ons, videos, intermixed content with the movie so you can see every aspect of the movie making or the history behind the movie. 300 on HD DVD is a perfect example of this new age of movie watching. Actually you've probably didn't get a chance to really see either way because Blu-Ray simply doesn't have them. It is important to note that these features ARE COMING to Blu-Ray but are now completely dismissed because Blu-Ray can't do them. Once they become available, there will be people going around yelling, OMG you gotta see this and this on Blu-ray it's so cool. We both know it's gonna happen.

So when I see people making statements like this, it's for 2 reasons only. One is that they REALLY don't care about anything like that (which is a shame), because you are really not a serious movie fan if you don't at least watch interesting facts behind the movie etc etc. For me personally that's the whole experience. I often find myself watching the movie with friends. But on some weekends, I sit down and just go explore these discs with features to find out great stuff. Don't forget, this interactive part is just getting really interesting on HD DVD, while it's non-existant on Blu-ray for at least next year and a half or two.

The second type of people who are speaking against features, are actually aware that this is something very unique that HD brings us. Online connectivity, extra online services offered directly through our players, engaging content that is always up to date with our discs regardless if the disc is 2-3 years old etc etc, but they choose to speak badly of it as it ruins their reality of Blu-Ray as unfinished format and demotes HD DVD advantages as it is obviously a very thoroughly thought out format.

Again, I will say, slightly higher bitrate and larger capacity that have shown so far absolutely NO benefit for our viewing experience are completely irrelevant in this world of mp3s, mp4s and iTunes and Apple TVs and Windows Media Centers and PC speakers etc etc. Optical media will be completely phased out and investing in this technology in order to increase size or something is completely ridiculous. Persistent storage on our living room devices and online content with ultra large capacity USB devices that are small enough will take over. This is already happening today, and you can imagine in 5 years from now. If anything, the future brings us real time content, being renderer, created on-fly.

This is why Blu-Ray for example will mean even less for PS3s as new game engines and stuff will be completely real-time generated. The processing power of both PS3 and X360 are tremendous and creating huge 3d animations that take gigabytes and gigabytes of space are now completely rendered in real-time.

Think about it. HD DVD extra features are much more then HD itself and even though it is in early stages now, it carries amazing potential that goes beyond just gag reels and commentary like on regular DVDs.

I totally agree (Y)

Boz is the man when it comes to HD-dvd/Blu-Ray.

I believe you mean "Boz is the man when it comes to HD-dvd".

When people bought 1st/2nd Gen Blu-Ray players, they got them to play Blu-Ray movies. That will not change, they will always be able to play Blu-Ray movies. They're not loosing out on anything. It's as if I bought a regular DVD player and then upscaling DVD players came out. My player can still do what I bought it to do, but I don't get the benefits of the newer generation of players.

Also, I don't have the actual numbers but I'm guessing the most common Blu-Ray player is actually the PS3. It's very likely PS3's will be upgradeable to profile 1.1 since they meet the requirements for storage, ethernet, and the processor can very likely decode two video/audio streams at once.

It's very likely PS3's will be upgradeable to profile 1.1 since they meet the requirements for storage, ethernet, and the processor can very likely decode two video/audio streams at once.

you may be right, but 'may' is the keyword. again, profile 1.1 requires a 2nd processor which the PS3 does not have. although i understand what you mean b/c you speak of the Cell processor and it may be able to handle the coprocessing thus making it 1.1 compliant. we'll see ;)

Boz, you rule.

When people bought 1st/2nd Gen Blu-Ray players, they got them to play Blu-Ray movies. That will not change, they will always be able to play Blu-Ray movies. They're not loosing out on anything. It's as if I bought a regular DVD player and then upscaling DVD players came out. My player can still do what I bought it to do, but I don't get the benefits of the newer generation of players.

This is you. There are plenty of people who will see the new features available and say, "Hey, I want to check those out," but when they go to try them on their Profile 1.0 players, they won't be able to. I can see your point on upscaling, but at the same time, upscaling came much later in DVD's lifetime when costs were a lot lower than the current Blu-ray costs, so people were able to afford purchasing a new DVD player to get upscaling while with Blu-ray they'll most likely be stuck with what they've got or not want to spend the money again. If that happens, they'll definitely get a sour taste in their mouth from Blu-ray.

Yes, I know Wikipedia is not exactly the most reliable source, but there you have it.

1.0 players will still be able to play 1.1 movies.

Boz has made a mountain out of a molehill.

So you like paying over $1000 for a hardware player back when 1.0 spec was out, then pay over the odds for the high definition version of the film only to find that its completely crippled and you can ONLY play back the main feature, you lose all the extras and in film stuff.

Because if that were me id be pretty ****ed.

But what he is saying is that there is also a large percentage of us who just buy the movie to do just that: watch the movie

Bonus features are nice, but my assumption would seem to wander towards: If you surveyed each and every individual on this planet regarding special features of a movie, probably 1/3 would say it's important or very important to have them. The other 2/3 could probably don't care a single bit. Again, just an assumption and a guess at numbers.

And I've always wondered while media players are sat side by side with cars in analogies. One is used to get you places, the other keeps you in one spot! :laugh:

I think its funny, when theres a flaw with HD-DVD, Blu-Ray "supporters" are the first ones to bound in there pointing this out, but when its a flaw with Blu-Ray, its not a flaw there is nothing to worry about at least the main feature still plays.....ignore the fact that youve spent nearly $1000 on a 1st gen 1.0 player and the fact that youve paid $10-20 more than the DVD version of the same film... Its ok, the main feature still works, crisis averted......

I believe you mean "Boz is the man when it comes to HD-dvd".

When people bought 1st/2nd Gen Blu-Ray players, they got them to play Blu-Ray movies. That will not change, they will always be able to play Blu-Ray movies. They're not loosing out on anything. It's as if I bought a regular DVD player and then upscaling DVD players came out. My player can still do what I bought it to do, but I don't get the benefits of the newer generation of players.

Also, I don't have the actual numbers but I'm guessing the most common Blu-Ray player is actually the PS3. It's very likely PS3's will be upgradeable to profile 1.1 since they meet the requirements for storage, ethernet, and the processor can very likely decode two video/audio streams at once.

The fact is people can pay less and still enjoy ALL the features of the NEWEST movies on HD DVD :D

Think about it. HD DVD extra features are much more then HD itself and even though it is in early stages now, it carries amazing potential that goes beyond just gag reels and commentary like on regular DVDs.

And you get what you pay for. When these "extra extra EXTRA" features become more available on HD-DVD, that's only goint to mean one thing: raise the price.

Current DVD's today are appropriately priced for the movie and little extra content you get. Considering the price of the media for Blu-ray (and yes HD-DVD too), add all these additional features you are raving about and what does that leave you with? The MPAA and studios doing what they do best: taking more of your money.

So really when it comes down to it I believe you cost arguement will nullify itself in the long run. The two will be so close in price that any argument would be childish to draw out. Hell, the charts still show a Blu-ray advatage in sales if you want to get right down to it (arguements you, of course, failed to show factual data on - don't take it personal).

Feature wise it seems as though you expect Blu-ray to never expand and HD-DVD being the only format to progress itself. It's been said before: you are making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to certain features. It still, and always will, boil down to what each and every individual wants... not what you want for us. It's almost like having religion crammed down your throat.

No matter what the majority prefers here on Neowin, some of you have to realize one thing. This planet is a lot larger than a dinky forum on the internet. And so far the population as a whole has preferred Blu-ray over HD-DVD. Guess the extra features HD-DVD provides versus Blu-ray's means diddly squat. It's funny how things turn out sometimes.

And you get what you pay for. When these "extra extra EXTRA" features become more available on HD-DVD, that's only goint to mean one thing: raise the price.

Current DVD's today are appropriately priced for the movie and little extra content you get. Considering the price of the media for Blu-ray (and yes HD-DVD too), add all these additional features you are raving about and what does that leave you with? The MPAA and studios doing what they do best: taking more of your money.

So really when it comes down to it I believe you cost arguement will nullify itself in the long run. The two will be so close in price that any argument would be childish to draw out. Hell, the charts still show a Blu-ray advatage in sales if you want to get right down to it (arguements you, of course, failed to show factual data on - don't take it personal).

Feature wise it seems as though you expect Blu-ray to never expand and HD-DVD being the only format to progress itself. It's been said before: you are making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to certain features. It still, and always will, boil down to what each and every individual wants... not what you want for us. It's almost like having religion crammed down your throat.

No matter what the majority prefers here on Neowin, some of you have to realize one thing. This planet is a lot larger than a dinky forum on the internet. And so far the population as a whole has preferred Blu-ray over HD-DVD. Guess the extra features HD-DVD provides versus Blu-ray's means diddly squat. It's funny how things turn out sometimes.

Biased much?

Yes, Blu-Ray is selling more now, but wait until Sony stops subsidizing disc production costs - with the current abysmal yield rates (in the 50% to 60% range, compared to HD-DVD's 90%+ ), prices will inevitably shoot up.

What you and other Blu-Ray supporters fail to realize, is that according to current trends, HD-DVD players will always (at least in the foreseeable future) be cheaper than Blu-Ray players, due to Sony's mismanagement and cheaper parts for HD-DVD.

Back to this article, if early adopters find out that some feature isn't working on their $1000 player, if I were them, I would be extremely upset, especially when I find out that the HD-DVD spec has no missing features from day 1. This alone would convince me to switch - who knows what would happen if Sony introduced Profile 1.2?

I fully expect more studios to jump on the HD-DVD bandwagon once they realize the lower production costs and the easy-to-code capabilities of the HD-DVD platform.

Meh, I say, if you bought into all this prematurely, you're an idiot. Don't care what/how you wish to object to it, but I really find no sympathy for early adopters. Much less, those who cry about. Obviously, if you had enough to buy the crap, you're not gonna go bankrupt. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, for those of us that DIDN'T buy into all the hype, let's wait for those awesome prices, no? Til then, I find no emergency for Hi-Def crap. :p

This planet is a lot larger than a dinky forum on the internet. And so far the population as a whole has preferred Blu-ray over HD-DVD. Guess the extra features HD-DVD provides versus Blu-ray's means diddly squat. It's funny how things turn out sometimes.

Says who? Having a playstation console that just provides a confusion in measuring real world numbers for a new format doesn't constitute Blu-Ray dominance.

Let's put it this way.. let's say Toyota is manufacturing the biggest number of cars on the market. They are including ie. (imaginary) Chow-Song CD players in their cars. Would you say that Chow-Song CD players are the most favored CD players in the world? Of course not, just because every car, that has a completely different purpose for it's existence - driving, not listening to music, comes with Chow-Song CD player doesn't constitute that majority of people 1. Like these players 2. Actually listen to CDs (most of them listen to radio)

On the other hand Pioneer CD players ie. with super ultra cool features have been selling like crazy, but as standalone CD players that you need to install in your car. Sure, the number of these devices might be lower in manufacturing then Toyota's Chow-Song CD players, but it is very obvious that Pioneer is much better and more accepted player in general as people actually go to buy it with intention.

Do you understand the point what I'm trying to make here?

Just because of the fact that many people are buying PS3 for their own reasons, doesn't mean that Blu-Ray is widely accepted worldwide? It's being forced onto consumer. Standalone sales which are actually more realistic are saying a different story. From the beginning HD DVD hardware have been outselling Blu-Ray hardware average 70:30 to date.

It is quite misleading to say that Blu-Ray has worldwide acceptance based on PS3 alone and these statistical numbers that Sony is using in their advantage will melt away like everything else in the upcoming months.

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As you will see, the completed build looks like it belongs in a server or meter closet rather than as a showpiece on someone's desk. On what I am calling the rear, there's a Mini DisplayPort (1.4), two 2.5 GbE ports, with Type A 3.1 USB ports, and then the barrel connector port. Around the front, there are two SATA6 ports with a power connector in the middle. Left side Right side One side is completely free of ports. On the other there's a slit that allows for the feed of a CPU fan cable, and a PCIe 3.0 X4 slot. Top Bottom The top is entirely made up of a heatsink except for the extended height for the I/O on the rear. Around the other side, you can find the ZIMA branding and some regulatory information stamped near the bottom. As you may see from the bottom of the ZimaBoard 2, it scratches quite easily from just moving it around on my Ikea island. Teardown Before we get started, let's have a look at this thing on the inside. The steps to get to the board are as follows: Remove the four smaller Torx screws on the bottom of the ZimaBoard 2; Remove the four larger Torx screws on the sides of the device; Carefully unstick the CMOS battery from the PCB; Remove two Phillips screws on the PCB; Lift out the PCB. Yes, as you can tell from the instructions, you need three different tools to remove Torx and Phillips screws (10 in total), and unhelpfully, one of the screws is located under the CMOS battery, which is stuck onto the PCB. Building Now comes the fun part. Because the ZimaSpace website does not provide any guidance on how to put the Starter Kit together. They only have guidance for connecting the CPU fan. However, they did upload a video to their YouTube channel that shows the entire process. To install the fan, first remove the four screws on the bottom of the ZimaBoard 2, then on the inside, there is a CPU FAN connector where you can attach the fan, reattach the ZimaBoard 2 frame, and feed the fan cable through the provided slit. Then remove the nearest screw on the side and attach the fan frame to the side of the device using the same screw. ZimaBard 2 screws Aligning the screws Bottom view Remember those four screws we removed to access the CPU FAN? Longer screws are provided in the box with the HDD Expansion Bracket, which is what you will now need to attach the ZimaBoard 2 to it. Helpfully, the orientation on how to attach it is made obvious when the frame can only be screwed on at the same overall length as the ZimaBoard 2. If you do it the wrong way around (which is what I did initially) one side hangs off the frame, and it becomes difficult to attach the PCIe Adapter Card cable. PCIe card frame Other side PCIe slot connector Next, it's time to attach the PCIe card frame, which is fastened with the help of 3.5-inch SATA HDD (3 screws). These are toolless screws that you can just use your fingers to fasten them with. Then it is time to connect the provided PCIe cable with the slot connector on one side of the ZimaBoard 2, feed it through the bottom of the HDD frame, and fasten it with two standoffs. Both bracket options 2280 standoffs with 2x 4TB MP44Q The PCIe 3.0 X4 card comes with a short bracket option, handy if you decide to place it inside a different NAS or rack server, but here we need the long bracket. Oddly enough, the M.2 standoffs were preinstalled into the 22110 position, but extra standoffs are included in the box, which I installed at the 2280 position for our use. I added a couple of MP44Q M.2 PCIe 4.0 SSDs (2 x 4TB) that can be availed on Amazon for $478.99 (the lowest price for 3 months) that TEAMGROUP supplied us with Then we have the almost completed build, you just need to push the card into the PCIe slot. Unfortunately, IceWhale Technologies did not provide a screw for the PCIe card frame (this is also apparent in their own video). Here it is at several different angles, with the last pic showing the SATA Y-Cable connected to the two WD Red Plus 4TB drives. Setup and Usage Next, you connect your cables to the I/O, and the ZimaBoard 2 powers on automatically, as there is no power button on the device. Power is controlled through the Settings in ZimaOS. BIOS The ZimaBoard 2 includes an Aptio BIOS from American Megatrends [1, 2, 3], and you can setup pretty much everything here including the boot order, which is locked to the UEFI OS, however above that choice you can enable or disable booting to a SATA/USB bootloader so this would still allow you to switch to an alternative bootloader and boot from it, or disable it to instead always start from the first disk with an OS installed on it. Initial Setup Upon connecting to the LAN and booting up, the ZimaBoard 2 can be reached by navigating to the IP address (shown if you have a monitor connected), or you can find it using the ZIMA Client desktop application, which is essentially a Zima device finder. Initializing the ZimaBoard 2 The ZimaOS setup process is pretty straightforward, through a wizard, and in full above, it basically consists of setting up an account and some handy tips, and that's that! Post Setup (ZimaOS update) Upon first boot, you are alerted that there is a ZimaOS update from 1.5.0 to 1.6.1, which I applied; the full process is shown above with the changelog. ZimaBoard 2 Storage Setup Next, it is time to set up the storage. ZimaOS actually throws everything onto the eMMC flash drive; it is also the default location of AppData, which is definitely something to be wary about, as the 45GB available storage could fill up quickly. HDDs I first attempted to create a Storage Pool using the two 4TB WD Red Plus NAS drives, and got an error message: After several attempts and then looking online, I discovered it was a bug with ZimaOS where the fix was simply to reboot ZimaOS and then try again, this time I was able to create a RAID mirror using the two drives. SSDs I did the same for the SSDs, as you will see in the above gallery, when I created the second Storage Pool, it only allowed me to select available drives. ZimaBoard 2 AppData ZimaOS comes with an App Store that includes a repository of almost 400 apps, so you will be able to find most of what you'll need for a NAS (although after a quick search, I wasn't able to find a Surveillance Manager), and now comes the important part: moving the default AppData location off the 45GB eMMC and onto a larger volume: Open Settings Then Apps Then, in the Select a new location field, click on the new Storage volume you want to move it to (in my case, the Apps Storage Pool), which is the SSD RAID mirror. Confirm the Migration warning Be praised! You can also do this for Docker (which by default installs onto the 45GB eMMC flash drive) and the User database. Plex Setup Next, I tested the configuration by installing the Plex Server app from the App Store. The library folders must already exist (which I placed into the Storage Pool). Plex Server setup is straightforward and requires very little configuration. In my case, all I had to do was add the media path I just created, which you can also browse to using the folder icon in the path field. In addition, you can now map the new Media library in Windows Explorer using the Zima Client. Oddly enough, it is not possible to access the ZimaBoard 2 over the Network Neighborhood; you must map drives using the client, which is shown in the last image in the above gallery. I watched one of my Blu-Ray rips, which is Dolby Vision with Dolby Atmos, and the content played fine with no stuttering or buffering, which is what anyone needs in this scenario. ZimaBoard 2 Zima Client mobile app There's also a client for mobile. It is pretty barebones, as shown in the above gallery, for example, the Apps screen launches the WebUI for that app, and the Backup must be done manually. On opening Backup, you can select internal storage folders on your phone to backup to the ZimaBoard 2's storage, and although this is constantly scanned, the backup action itself must be manually triggered. There is an option to allow foreground backup (last image in the above gallery), but this basically means the queued backup gets triggered when you manually open the app. Benchmarking SATA PCIe 3.0 X4 A CrystalDiskMark test on a mapped network drive from within a Windows 11 25H2 PC (image above) connected over a 2.5 GbE was well within acceptable ranges. Writes were generally better on the SSD RAID mirror. SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 I also ran the NAS Performance tester, which tests the link speed performance. As you can see, it pretty much maxes out the 2.5GbE connection. Of course, you can also opt to bond the two 2.5 GbE connections for a bit more umph, but I didn't do that. Thermals Top PCIe card SATA HDDs Next, I measured some hotspots while playing content on Plex. It's fair to say this will perform better than a NAS that is enclosed in a metal or plastic case, as almost everything storage-wise is exposed! Anyway, the ZimaBoard 2 did not break a sweat with Plex streaming or disk benchmarks. ZimaOS Factory Reset ZimaOS does not include a factory reset option. Instead, you have to download the ZimaOS image and flash it to the eMMC manually. The flashing process is shown in the above gallery. The steps to do so are listed below: Download the ZimaOS image here; Open BalenaEtcher (Run as Administrator) and select the image; Select your inserted USB drive (min 8 GB) Flash to it; Connect your USB drive, monitor, keyboard, USB hub (optional), mouse (optional), and network cable (recommended) to the ZimaBoard 2; Connect power and press F11 continuously; Select your USB drive starting with UEFI in the boot device menu; Press Enter on the Install ZimaOS option; Select /dev/mmcblk0 (MMC) flash drive as target; Confirm with (three times) to wipe the target disk; Wait a couple of minutes while ZimaOS installs; Remove the USB drive and confirm with a reboot; Your ZimaBoard 2 has been factory reset. However, you don't have to stick with ZimaOS, in fact the company also offers official CasaOS images, that are based on Debian; or as they say themselves, put anything you want on this "hackable single board server" it's up to you. Conclusion I had a lot of fun putting this together. I've custom-built all my own PCs and servers since the 90s, and this is the first time I have had to put a NAS together. Even if the actual base ZimaBoard 2 was already a completed build, it still feels pretty custom. I just wish that IceWhale Technology included a getting-started guide in the box for the Start Kit, which would have really completed this kit. Instead, I had to search for the official video on the YouTube channel to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. So who is this for? Definitely the hobbyist who is comfortable building their own PC and servers. It also has a much smaller footprint than its nearest equivalent (in terms of specs), like the Beelink Me Pro, which is another NAS I will be testing soon. Although the Beelink does not come with the PCIe 3.0 X4 expansion, the ZimaBoard 2 Starter Kit suddenly looks to be a great bargain, even if it only offers the two 3.5-inch bays over the four in the other example. It makes a lot of sense to use Intel's N150 chip inside a NAS; it is more than capable of doing what the ZimaBoard 2 is intended for, media streaming and backup. It also looks like the IceWhale Technology staff are quite active in the official forums helping people with issues they come across with ZimaOS and the devices, peer support seems to be good as well, I was quickly able to find why I was not able to create a new Storage Pool in ZimaOS v1.6.1 even though that is quite a serious bug, hopefully it will be fixed in the next update. If you are comfortable with the command line and Docker, you'll be fine. You can do great things with this hardware. This was my first time with ZimaOS. It seems a bit barebones in comparison to the likes of Synology DSM, TOS, and UGOS, but it has a ton of apps to get you started with your home or small business NAS. Where to buy As of publishing, IceWhale Technology is running a discount of up to 5% for the Starter Kit. If you opt to get just the ZimaBoard 2 itself, it does come with a SATA Y-Cable, so you will be able to connect up to two 3.5-inch HDDs to it. ZimaBoard 2 1668 Starter Kit for $534.50 on Amazon US (was $548.60) ZimaBoard 2 832 Starter Kit for $372.88 on Amazon US (was $390.60) Zimaboard 2 1668 (16GB+64GB) for $419.90 on Amazon US Zimaboard 2 832 (8GB+32GB) for $359.90 on Amazon Disclosure: IceWhale Technology provided a free sample without any editorial input or review pre-approval. Good to know The Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. 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    • It's in the Insider's group so yes it's technically beta, though these days it's hard to see much of a difference unless you opt for the most extreme beta builds, which I don't. When I moved here from the Release Preview channel I did so primarily because I wanted to see how well the restored taskbar functionality (restored from Win10, and earlier) is working and whether it was time to finally abandon SAB--and it is--working fine, so far. Not as polished as SAB, but it'll do for me.
    • I've been using MWB Premium for a number of years so that along with Windows updates and updated browser should be fine. Thanks for that.
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