Battlestar Galactica Season 4

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

This may seem fracked up but I think Roslin is a cylon. :ermm:

[gigapixels Veteran]

This may seem fracked up but I think Roslin is a cylon. :ermm:

I don't think so. The following quote is why (it's from the Hybrid in Razor):

Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of that revelation, bringing true clarity. And amidst confusion, he will find her... Enemies brought together by the apostle, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, once impenetrable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all, the seven, now six self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching, the agony of the one splintering into many. And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.

It looks like the final Cylon model is somebody who feels they have done wrong... Roslin is set in her ways and believes she has done nothing wrong during the entire ordeal. Besides, Roslin was on Galactica at the time the other four heard the music and realized what they were; why didn't she experience the same thing?

[Antaris Veteran]

That doesn't count her out, it just means that she is not affected by the same trigger (the music) as the others.

It was a great end to season 3. Out of all of them, I was most surprised by Chief. Frack!

[gigapixels Veteran]

That doesn't count her out, it just means that she is not affected by the same trigger (the music) as the others.

It was a great end to season 3. Out of all of them, I was most surprised by Chief. Frack!

Did you even read the quote? That was my biggest point. The music part was just an afterthought.

But yeah, the chief definitely surprised me quite a bit, though I think that Tigh was the biggest surprise for me.

[Antaris Veteran]

Bloody spoiler tags...

it could be Starbuck!

[KeR]

I am not surprised by Chief being a Cylon, as there was that one episode in Season 2 where he was having weird dreams, and he was suspecting that he was a Cylon.

[*RedBull*]

I don't think so. The following quote is why (it's from the Hybrid in Razor):

It looks like the final Cylon model is somebody who feels they have done wrong... Roslin is set in her ways and believes she has done nothing wrong during the entire ordeal. Besides, Roslin was on Galactica at the time the other four heard the music and realized what they were; why didn't she experience the same thing?

Roslin is suppose to die of cancer. I'm sorry but Cyclons don't die of cancer, rust maybe, but not cancer. LOL

I sure hope that's not a spoiler without tags, Antaris!

He is talking about something that was aired. :p

[Mathachew Veteran]

Finished watching tonight's episode a little while ago on Scifi.com.

It was decent, though honestly doesn't compare to last weeks. There is major conflict within for the Cylons. There's a bit of focus on Lee Adama and his resignation. There's still no explaining how Kara is alive, how her ship is in new condition, etc, but there is obviously still suspicion that she is a Cylon. I get the impression that the first half of this season will be overly focused on finding out who the final Cylon is, though I swear up and down that the preview for Season 3's finale said the final five would be revealed despite being able to prove it (the promo can be found on YouTube, minus the final five being revealed message, but whatever). I don't know, maybe it's just me. The way the final Cylon is being handled it's obvious that this person will have some very important role in the overall scheme of things, whether we see the character now or is someone who has been mentioned and rarely seen. Admiral Adama, as usual, goes against protocol and decides he's going to send a "research" ship of sorts to find Earth, to basically back track and see if Kara can lead them to Earth, all behind Roslin's back of course. Baltar continues to be a ladies man, and for whatever reason, Boomer, on a Cylon baseship, decides to do some half naked dancing with no relevance to the story... at least it didn't appear to have any relevance. Neither did Baltar's sex scene, whose dialog could've been established in other ways without having to actually have on screen sex, but what would I expect from a show that weaves sex into its production? As I said, it was decent, a bit of a let down considering how good last week's episode was. The biggest development was on the Cylon side where the conflict has gone from verbal disagreements to action taking place.

Kara's whole situation of "dying," appearing, and how things played out doesn't add up and probably boils down to continuity errors, but to me it's a big one for such a prominent character.

[Budious]

I think that is six standing between the centurions. In the preview, six is seen saying, "Stop lobotomizing the raiders."

Yeah, I noticed after watching the episode, her hair is different now and looked more like Lucy's character. I would have expected them to bring her out to be the tie breaker though on the vote, but six just went to the Centurions instead.

I agree that this episode was not up to expectations after last week, but I think it setup the changing character roles and the new divides. Hopefully this final season will not get drawn out with filler episodes as last season and will get to center of the remaining issues.

On the religious element, I think it goes back to fulfilling the ego of Baltar, and his search for redemption. But as we have seen from his character time and time again, he's very much grounded in the science that he knows best and always removes himself from his faith and back to science to debunk his own consciousness. I wouldn't be surprised that he comes to senses in the upcoming episodes and investigates the "miracle" of the child he healed, could be looking a "Boxy" like character and the fifth cylon is a child model? Food for thought... :p

[LOC Veteran]

I only saw the last, oh 10 mintes or so of the episode sadly. I'll watch it tomorrow sometime I imagine. But I will say this, the ending was quite a shocker with the centurions wacking the other humanoid models.

As for the fifth cylon, remember, it's been said several times by RDM and other producers that the fifth cylon has already BEEN shown, and there are clues scattered everywhere throughout the series. What that means, or entails I have no idea. My guess is the final cylon is Lee Adama. But that's just me. (I also kinda think that Helo might be, but since cylon and cylon can't supposedly have children, that would preclude it since Helo and Caprica-Sharon did the nasty. But since these final five are fundamentaly different than the other models, I think maybe it might be possible)

[ThePitt]

the only thing that worth on this last ep was the last minute. The rest was really bad and long.

And I dont like that thing "who is the 5th cylon" thing. This is not lost. Galactica doesnt need this to keep the ppl watching. Is the whole story what the ppl watch, not just a cheap hung to keep you waiting for the next week ep. The worse of this is that they use this like the main attraction, showing at the very beginning of this new season episode the sentence "one will be revealed". Like that would change a thing. If it was there, was there since the beginning and doesnt make any difference.

[Kushan]

Don't be so sure, it depends entirely on who the remaining Cylon is. Imagine if it was Adama and he knew about it the whole time, imagine if he had a major hidden agenda against EVERYONE or something.

Who knows what will happen.

I quite enjoyed this week's episode. It wasn't as good as last week's, mind you, but I still love the show and I'm already counting down the hours until next weeks!

[Budious]

... or they could pull a Blade Runner on us, dub over the original dialog and make it the "Final 11" and there was never a fifth to be revealed :p

Actually, what I find strange is the similarity between human cylons and the replicants of the Blade Runner movie and the novel it's based off of, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, and I used to think that making Chief Tyrel and the other Galactica members 4 of the Final 5 was a cheap ploy, but now I think otherwise. In the movie Blade Runner, Tyrell Corporation is the fictional developer of the Nexus-6 replicants which are pursued by the protagonist, Rick Deckard. Dr. Eldon Tyrell, the founder of the company, builds a more realistic prototype Nexus-7 replicant and gives it the memories of his real niece Sarah, the replicant is known as Rachael 'Tyrell'. Throughout the movie (depending on which cut you watch), it is suggested that Deckard's partner, Gaff (coincidently played by Edward James Olmos, aka "Adama") is more of a tail for Tyrell corporation and is aware of the thoughts of Deckard, suggesting that the protagonist himself may also be a Nexus-7 prototype built to pursue and destroy the malfunctioning Nexus-6 models. Director Ridley Scott never confirmed or denied that was the case, and only said it confirmed the discussion of "What is it to be human?"

Moving on to the novelized successor of the Blade Runner movie, "Replicant Night", the wikipedia summary states... "When Eldon Tyrell designed the original replicants, he included a failsafe mechanism to prevent replicants from breeding: male replicants suffer from an amplified, modified version of 'stepfather syndrome', the animal instinct to kill the children of other males. Male replicants, however, have an instinct to kill their own children. In most replicants, this instinct is suppressed unless activated..." This interpretation goes hand in hand with the Battlestar Galactica interactive mural imitating the 'Last Supper' in which is suggest that a image of Chief Tyrel holding a large knife maybe take an action against a child (suggestively his)... but in lieu of this interpretation from Blade Runner, maybe he is really going to kill Hera, thus... igniting the plot line of Sharon, Caprica, Roslin, and Baltar all in the Opera house trying to save Hera from danger?

Maybe I read too much into the Blade Runner connection, but as Sci-Fi writers, they do tend to borrow concepts that have worked well in the past and elaborate upon them and even pay homage though imitation. If you were to take the character of Chief Tyrel literally, then 'Chief' could signify his importance or stature within the cylon ranks, and 'Tyrel' is homage to Blade Runner and a clue that he was indeed meant to be a cylon from the start of the series. Also, look at his occupation and skills, he's a mechanic and suggests that his talents are engineering related, whether that be Viper maintenance or otherwise unactivated programming. Seemingly each model of cylon has it's own skills and persona.

[Corris Veteran]

^You have given me the urge to watch Blade Runner, I can hardly remember it, was years ago when I watched it.

Really enjoying the 4th season so far, even if we are only 2 episodes in, its still pretty good, I just hope that they don't put annoying story line bits in there during this season, I hope they get on with it, and we can finally get down to everything being answered.

[ATGC]

I think the 5th Cylon is SPOILER below....

one of the Adamas for sure. In the Caprica series to come, its about the Adamas vs Graystones (Cylon makers), so it would kinda of make sense of one the Adamas turned out be the Cylon - might go along with the storyline of Caprica series.

Anyhow, heres a little thing I want to figure out, the Cylon orders. So far we known that the Cylon orders are:

#1 (Calvin), #2 (Leoben), #3 (D'Anna), #4 (Simon), #5 (Aaron), #6 (Gina), #8 (Sharon)

So, we are missing #7, #9, #10, #11, and #12.

I think #7 is Troy, #9 is Anders, #10 is Galen, #11 is unknown and #12 is Saul. Saul and Calvin appear to be oldest Cylon, so they are at the end of the spectrum. Troy fits in with Gina and Sharon since those three are babes. The others I guessed. Here is the Last Supper image they put on the BSG site. Possibly showing 6 Humans and 6 Cylons. However, The Gina/Baltar Ghost thing I don't know what to make of it yet. So for a good final Cylon, its either Laura Roslin (I doubt it), Lee Adama (POSSIBLE), Baltar (Still POSSIBLE), Gina/Baltar Ghost thing (dunno what it is, but its possible its the final Cylon), Kara Thrace (Possible, but I doubt it since the Hybird said she was the "herald of the apocalypse and the harbinger of death", Karl Agathon (I highly doubt it, human for sure), and finally William Adama (POSSIBLE).

What do you think the order is of the 12 Cylons, post them.

[Kushan]

I reckon it's probably just Baltair. A bit obvious, maybe, but it's the most likely one. I kinda hope that it's not, though, cuz it would be a bit anti-climatic.

[Glowstick]

Moore said no one on that picture is the final Cylon.

[Kushan]

Moore said no one on that picture is the final Cylon.

Really? Then who's missing...

Is that the president on the left? it's hard to tell.

[ATGC]

Really? Then who's missing...

Is that the president on the left? it's hard to tell.

Yes.

Hmm if Moore said that then who can possibly be the final Cylon? Doesn't make any sense to introduce a new main character.. :wacko:

[Budious]

I thought the writers had suggested that anyone shown at the table is not a cylon and that the empty siollouette between Tigh and Lee Adama where a cup sits is a placeholder for the final cylon. Given the reference, I thought it possible for it to be Ellen Tigh but she would have woke up in a goo bath by now or more likely, Lee's wife, Dualla Adama, to be the fifth. I'm leaning towards the fifth being a woman because we already have seven men, and four women, if they do endeavor to be human and reproduce, it would make sense the ratio would level out at 7/5.

More on the Ellen Tigh theory... we have no idea if the poison Sol gave her would kill a cylon so it's possible she fainted, he left her in the dirt dugeon, she woke up and humans and cylons had left New Caprica and she's stuck there alone.

[ATGC]

I thought the writers had suggested that anyone shown at the table is not a cylon and that the empty siollouette between Tigh and Lee Adama where a cup sits is a placeholder for the final cylon. Given the reference, I thought it possible for it to be Ellen Tigh but she would have woke up in a goo bath by now or more likely, Lee's wife, Dualla Adama, to be the fifth. I'm leaning towards the fifth being a woman because we already have seven men, and four women, if they do endeavor to be human and reproduce, it would make sense the ratio would level out at 7/5.

Dude!!

The final Cylon is Dualla!! From looking at the image it seems the couples are beside each other, so if we place Dualla there, then it fits in perfectly. Place it goes well with Leoben saying "Adama" is a Cylon. Dualla is now an Adama!!! Yes, finally figured it out. Thanks

[Budious]

Dude!!

Place it goes well with Leoben saying "Adama" is a Cylon. Dualla is now an Adama!!! Yes, finally figured it out. Thanks

My problem is everyone using Leoban as a reliable source, I mean if all the models are programmed and prohibited from thinking about the final five, why should he know? If Sharon (Athena) is truely on the side of the humans now, and her cylon programming is not playing an active role in her mission on Galactica, why hasn't she been able to identify Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, and Tory alone with the fifth as the final five? The Leoban comment introduces too many continuity errors other than to dismiss it as part of Leoban's character to lie and manipulate, I'd refuse to look at it as "factual."

Also, take a look at the real "Last Supper"...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...(1495-1498).jpg

If we took a literal reference of the position of the missing character, than it would relate to Judas (betrayer of Jesus) or to John. However, if the compare the positions and reactions of the characters, we may need to flip that reference horizontally, in which case the silhouette belongs to Philip the Apostle. "Philip is always listed fifth among the apostles (Matthew 10:3, Mark 3:18, Luke 6:14 and Acts 1:13)." from the wikipedia entry... coincidence? So who is representative of Philip begs the question? (If it's even the right one to be asked.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_the_Apostle

Edited April 13, 2008 by Budious

[ATGC]

My problem is everyone using Leoban as a reliable source, I mean if all the models are programmed and prohibited from thinking about the final five, why should he know? If Sharon (Athena) is truely on the side of the humans now, and her cylon programming is not playing an active role in her mission on Galactica, why hasn't she been able to identify Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, and Tory alone with the fifth as the final five? The Leoban comment introduces too many continuity errors other than to dismiss it as part of Leoban's character to lie and manipulate, I'd refuse to look at it as "factual."

I disagree. Leoben has thus far been accurate. For example, they found Kobol, and the part that Kara will lead them to Earth (the arrow part) and they did. Leoban said that he is able to see patterns and such, which I believe to be true. The mention of manipulation only came from Adama and Laura Roslin, so its not accurate because they are at war and both of them believe anything the Cylons say are to cause fear among the fleet.

Boomer was able to disagree with the majority Eight vote on the last episode. Hence, Athena too is able to disagree and go about her own will. Just as Leoben said, something like this has never happened before. Also, I don't think Athena is able to sense the presence of the five, she did not enter the room when Hera, Gina and Baltar went inside the opera house. Since Gina saw the final five in the opera house, she is able to sense them and we have already started seeing Baltar pursing an active role in the final five, so he obviously feels their presence too.

Edited April 13, 2008 by NeptuneSaK

[Budious]

Another interesting tidbit about Philip, the Apostle. "In the Unity Church, Philip is the Apostle associated with the power of dominion, or power, as per Charles Fillmore's The Twelve Powers of Man." (wikipedia) "[Charles Fillmore] became known as an American mystic for his contributions to metaphysical interpretations of Biblical scripture." (wikipedia) ... ok, so you probably thinking I'm stretching this connection a bit, but during the most recent episode, Rachael (Six variant) took the information about the raiders identifying the final five through translation from the hybrid to Cavil, he stated that Rachael's interpretation of the hybrid's "metaphysics" as religion and the word or will of God was misplaced. I figure there has to be a good reason for integrating religion into the series and maybe we'll get some answers about it this season.

[ATGC]

:cry:

Why can't Moore be an ass like LOST producers and extended BSG to a couple of more seasons to make some extra money!

I'm going to miss BSG :(