Windows Vista successor scheduled for a H2 2009 release?

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

I want an overhaul of all legacy components:

Yeah me too.

I want BIOS to die or to evolve into something. Also, with RAID controller and a bunch of other on board chips, my pre-OS startup time is much longer than OS-load time. And it doesn't matter how fast the CPU is, it still takes forever to get to the stage when the OS starts to load.

Sadly, there's little MS alone can do to improve on that.

[majortom1981]

The article first states introduced. If they just introduce it that means showing it to the public.

[L3thal Veteran]

I want an overhaul of all legacy components: remove native support (registry, crazy dlls, etc.) for previous generation apps but allow them to be run using virtualization. That way, it'll be easier to build a componentized (sp?) OS and write programs which function correctly with non-adminstrative rights.

I cannot wait for that day to come :D

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

if they charge another arm and a leg for it then it'll be a failure no matter how good it is. They should at the very least provide a cheap upgrade option for Vista owners if they're going to release it that soon.

Ohh yeah.

Almost $700 for Ultimate is just way too much.

[Linkinfamous]

I want an overhaul of all legacy components: remove native support (registry, crazy dlls, etc.) for previous generation apps but allow them to be run using virtualization. That way, it'll be easier to build a componentized (sp?) OS and write programs which function correctly with non-adminstrative rights.

What's wrong with the registry?

Can you suggest a better alternative for storing settings? I can't.

http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/...26/6523907.aspx

The registry is simply the best option for saving user and machine settings in a fast, flexible, safe, and secure manner, and It's really the only good way to do component registration.

[winlonghorn]

I think with Sinofsky at the helm you might just be surprised.

Thank you! Finally somebody that agrees with me! LOL

[winlonghorn]

I believe that Microsoft is planning Windows 7 for a late 2009 release. But I also think that Beta 1 will be delivered by Q4 this year.

(Y)

Yep! I am thinking PDC! :)

[revvo]

What's wrong with the registry?

Can you suggest a better alternative for storing settings? I can't.

...

The registry is simply the best option for saving user and machine settings in a fast, flexible, safe, and secure manner, and It's really the only good way to do component registration.

Text files? XML files? Text files work with Linux.

[timmmay]

What's wrong with the registry?

Can you suggest a better alternative for storing settings? I can't.

http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/...26/6523907.aspx

The registry is simply the best option for saving user and machine settings in a fast, flexible, safe, and secure manner, and It's really the only good way to do component registration.

I disagree. The registry is contained in only a few files. Lose any of them and it can be a real heartache getting your system back up. I like the linux way of doing it with text files for different services etc.

[ironsight2000]

make the version not support legacy but if the user requires a file have it as a update

[spenser.d]

I doubt they'll drop legacy code. Same reason Intel won't change their architecture to something that makes more sense. It would take a joint effort including MS, a bunch of major software creators, and a bunch of hardware manufacturers - otherwise it's not worth it to MS to brute force their way through the crap they'll take for making such a drastic change. It would be a terrible financial decision if they did it of their own will with no outside support, even though it is their own OS and despite the fact that they could probably manage it all.

-Spenser

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Text files? XML files? Text files work with Linux.

Did you even read the link he posted?

Just a few reasons why those don't work:

1. It's slow
   
2. No per-key security
   
3. Not thread safe
   
4. Prone to Denial-of-Service attacks (or accidental DoS from badly written apps)
   
5. Apps can read/write to them directly, limiting options to extend the format.
   
6. Manageability is nearly impossible.
   

There is no way text files could ever fulfill the purpose of the registry.

But yeah, you go ahead an build COM based up on registrations in a text file. Good luck with that.

I disagree. The registry is contained in only a few files. Lose any of them and it can be a real heartache getting your system back up. I like the linux way of doing it with text files for different services etc.

I'm confused. Aren't two files easier to back up than 200?

Plus, it's not like applications are forced to put settings in the registry. The registry is first and foremost for registration. That is, COM coclasses / interfaces, file associations, handlers, protocols, etc. All stuff that is shared by multiple applications. Putting all that stuff in text or XML files would be a nightmare.

[Symphony]

I agree with Brandon. :yes: The registy was/is a nice idea for what it was designed and implemented for. Then come all the developers around the world, and start to store all their programs' settings inside the registry -> of course it becomes big and slow. Then to make things worse, everybody tries to write a registry fixer and optimizer to "speed up your computer by 400%" :angry: . Of course it will become a mess.

I don't know if anybody here knows the story behind the notification area next to the clock. It is the same story :whistle: : it was designed to notify the user about events, then later all the developers had the idea to minimize their application onto the notification area, or create a quickstarter icon there. And now, what do you see there on an average computer: antivirus, firewall, bandwidth monitor, quicktime, nero, adobe, openoffice, nvidia and ati and other tray icons. Was the idea good? Yes. Can you use easily a PC with 15-20 tray icons next to the clock? No.

[markwolfe Veteran]

^^^ Microsoft themselves encouraged software developers to do this. And Microsoft led by example with their apps.

I prefer smaller files, in human-readable (and fixable) text format, that are accessed/read by the system only when needed. System files kept out of user write areas. Per user files kept inside each user's home folder. Clean. Orderly. Maintainable.

Sure, there are benefits to a binary database containing all entries from all apps and the OS. But surely you can see the disadvantages, too. ;)

[TEX4S]

I hope it's true as well. There may be a lot of annoyed Vista users though.

All Vista users are annoyed already

Even the ones like myself who never have any issues - but dont like the bloated overhead.

Im eagerly awaiting something different - Im getting tired of dual-booting.

[revvo]

Did you even read the link he posted?

Just a few reasons why those don't work:

1. It's slow
   
2. No per-key security
   
3. Not thread safe
   
4. Prone to Denial-of-Service attacks (or accidental DoS from badly written apps)
   
5. Apps can read/write to them directly, limiting options to extend the format.
   
6. Manageability is nearly impossible.
   

There is no way text files could ever fulfill the purpose of the registry.

But yeah, you go ahead an build COM based up on registrations in a text file. Good luck with that.

Why aren't *nix based systems (Linuxn BSD, etc.) a nightmare? Or slow? or less safe than Windows (ha!)? Kudos to them I guess right? Why so many applications do not use the registry and use text or xml or ini files to store settings? And why do many of us have to format Windows and reinstall because the registry (among other things) is full of crap?

Microsoft shouldn't allow people to write to the registry unless they follow proper guidelines.

[Badie05]

OMG. My New?? Vista Ultimate 64 Bit SP1 is already gonna get replaced :(

[SnowRanger13]

Well I'd bet we won't see it before H2 2009. But I'm pretty certain Microsoft will make sure it's out before 2011 hits. They said they don't want no more 5 year releases and I agree. But 2 years seems to soon to me. 3 years sounds like a sweet spot, maybe with a better upgrade price too :D

[Linkinfamous]

Why aren't *nix based systems (Linuxn BSD, etc.) a nightmare? Or slow? or less safe than Windows (ha!)? Kudos to them I guess right? Why so many applications do not use the registry and use text or xml or ini files to store settings? And why do many of us have to format Windows and reinstall because the registry (among other things) is full of crap?

Microsoft shouldn't allow people to write to the registry unless they follow proper guidelines.

If you bothered to look at the link I posted, it would have spelled in great detail for you the problems posed by these kind of files, and why the registry is "better" than config files in many cases.

Some of the problems are specific to INI files, but a lot of the listed issues are problems that any kind of configuration file can have:

XML manages to sidestep many of the problems that INI files have, but only if you promise only to read from them (and only if everybody agrees to use a standard-conforming parser), and if you don't require security granularity beyond the file level. Once you write to them, then a lot of the INI file problems return.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Mio, some of those issues pointed out by Microsoft to validate Microsoft's direction are specific to Microsoft products only. The very first one talks about the Windows API limitation at the time. The second one poses the "administrator" values versus the "user" values. This would be handled by two different files, as any app with specific settings to work in that corporate environment would be out of reach of the users. And users would have their own settings that are read (local drive or user's 'home' folder off network) so they can make their own preference adjustments (UI settings and such). The third one is purely implementation issue, if two separate tasks are allowed to both open the file in write mode and both attempt writes to it. That's a strawman - it is nonsense, so just don't do it!

Some of the items are true - it takes fractionally longer to read and parse a file that is in ASCII text.

It is just weighing the pros and cons of large binary database versus smaller text files that are only read when needed (and are kept in memory during application run, so aren't constantly re-read and parsed).

I know where I put my money. :)

[rtk]

It would make perfect sense for the new version to come that soon, considering what a huge failure Vista has been.

It's a failure only in the eyes of the AMB trolls, check out CDW's latest report. Doubling OS X's market share in a year is a pretty good indicator.

Now before the fanboys scream "TROLL!", there is not one business I know of switching to Vista, it would be like suicide. The reasons are too numerous to go into now, but it's just not happening. I work in an IT dept and we have been evaluating Vista and found it simply not fit for purpose.

Once again, check out the CDW report, many businesses are now starting their vista migrations, my own employer included.

[shockz]

I hope it's true as well. There may be a lot of annoyed Vista users though.

Why? It will be like the good old days when Microsoft actually did release an updated OS every two years.

[Shane2]

Windows me was only released 7 months after win2k.

Windows ME was not a successor to 2000 it was a successor to 98, and it was being developed concurrently with 2000 so that feat is not really as impressive as you make it sound.

Yeah me too.

I want BIOS to die or to evolve into something. Also, with RAID controller and a bunch of other on board chips, my pre-OS startup time is much longer than OS-load time. And it doesn't matter how fast the CPU is, it still takes forever to get to the stage when the OS starts to load.

Sadly, there's little MS alone can do to improve on that.

Wait till we get better EFI support from motherboard makers :D

I disagree. The registry is contained in only a few files. Lose any of them and it can be a real heartache getting your system back up. I like the linux way of doing it with text files for different services etc.

Linux is not immune to problems, I have had application installs b0rk in linux that could only be fixed with a complete reinstall.

Why aren't *nix based systems (Linuxn BSD, etc.) a nightmare? Or slow? or less safe than Windows (ha!)? Kudos to them I guess right? Why so many applications do not use the registry and use text or xml or ini files to store settings? And why do many of us have to format Windows and reinstall because the registry (among other things) is full of crap?

Microsoft shouldn't allow people to write to the registry unless they follow proper guidelines.

Not true at all, in fact I personally have found that on every computer I have ever used, applications actually take longer to launch on Linux than on Windows. What the registry gets loaded with is mainly down to vendors writing bad uninstall programs, if you ran windows how it came out of the box, and never installed any applications on it then you would never have to format it, the general rule of thumb is that the fault lies with software vendors.

The actual reality is that the windows registry is rarely if ever used as a vector of attack, it does not make Windows inherently unsafe.

Also, something you folks seem to be failing to consider is that part of the excessive technical complexity of Linux comes down to the way it manages application installs, you have to perform different edits for different apps, whereas with the Windows Registry everything is centralised and editable from a single location, making it much easier to configure and tweak.

[Cloud02]

Windows ME was not a successor to 2000 it was a successor to 98, and it was being developed concurrently with 2000 so that feat is not really as impressive as you make it sound.

XP was released october 2001. Which is 1? year after win2k, and 1 year after Win ME.

What Microsoft needs to do is start making new OS branches. One that supports legacy, one that gives the whole thing the much needed overhaul.

[ViperAFK]

I've never had a problemw with the windows registry, or linux's method (Although like the person above I find linux programs take longer to launch)

What does Mac OSX use? Text files also I assume?