I will not buy Windows 7 unless it has ... *Feature*


Recommended Posts

This is a naive statement. There is no "are you sure" prompt involved with UAC. There is only the "Do you want to allow this program to run with administrator privileges" dialog. This has nothing to do with certainty. It's there to inform you that an application wants to run with admin privileges, and to give you the opportunity to stop that from happening.

They are far from pointless. They provide a better user experience and increased security over credential prompts like those in OSX (that ask you to verify the current users's password).

That's a multi-user scenario, I was referring to the common single-user admin scenario. In your case, you should lock your machine.

When the computer is put on the domain and the user has administrator privileges they still cannot install applications or erase system files unless they are a "domain admin". That is sometimes better or worse. For the user to install an application the "domain admins" must install it for the user which is a total nuisance. There must be an approach that works well for the admins and for the users..

.....I would like Microsoft to rethink the registry and come up with no registry or something better.

I see people saying things like this a lot so I might as well speak up. MS just cant cut out the resistry like that, what they need to do though is alter the registry in such a way that its easier to keep clean and in working order. It can be a pain but its not a simple matter of removing it and starting again - if they did that they would have to rewrite a lot of the OS.

So it *is* a "conceivable way, then?

Unless you are adding in constraints? I thought that the situation I described is realistic, and I bet it happens an awful lot.

That is not the kind of security UAC is meant to provide. Basic physical access security is addressed by the locking feature (and lock on sleep / lid-close / screensaver / etc).

We are talking about an authenticated admin user being able to run applications in a least-privilege context. That is the UAC scenario. If the user is not an admin, then UAC doesn't apply, and instead you're dealing with LUA accounts which work differently by their nature.

If you're suggesting that every user should have two users accounts, then you're speaking in an entirely different context (a world of fantasy where the Linux user experience sacrifices are actually acceptable to normal people). Nevermind the fact that just such a model is just as vulnerable to spoofing and keylogging attacks.

In the case of a user/admin who must authenticate an operation to run at elevated privileges, a click isn't less secure than a password. That is, until you consider the human factor of tendency to just click "OK" where a password entry is a significant change from "click, click, click" so the user is not as likely to just click OK one more time. (although the screen transitions help visually distinguish that what is going on is different).

The real benefit of a password is for the real situation of a home user. Say, with kids.

If you are going to push all responsibility to the user to always lock the session when going pee or getting a glass of water, then I guess I can't discuss this any further. In your mind, UAC is flawless - the user ought to physically secure his/her PC better.

For me, the added security layer (yes, that is what it is) of prompting for a password is easy to do, and does effectively prevent unauthorized changes. As a father and family man, where my PC is available for any other family member to use (and they do have separate accounts, so they can 'switch user' to them), I find it silly to physically secure my machine behind locked doors, or even Win+L to lock it if the doorbell rings. The Linux solution works with me on this, where the Windows one requires extra steps to be performed by the user.

In the case of a user/admin who must authenticate an operation to run at elevated privileges, a click isn't less secure than a password. That is, until you consider the human factor of tendency to just click "OK" where a password entry is a significant change from "click, click, click" so the user is not as likely to just click OK one more time. (although the screen transitions help visually distinguish that what is going on is different).

This is a fair criticism of the consent model, though the same can be applied to credential entry (with far worse consequences if you get used to typing your password in all the time, you're more likely to fall for spoofing attacks).

The real benefit of a password is for the real situation of a home user. Say, with kids.

Again, this doesn't really buy you anything. If your machine is running, logged in, and your kid comes over and starts bashing on your keyboard, they can still delete your precious user data. They can still send e-mails or IMs and do lots of other bad things. Parental controls, machine locking, and features like those are designed to deal with this problem. If you want to use UAC as a sort of parental control measure, then that's fine - you can set the option to use credential prompts instead of consent prompts.

That's a good argument for having the option, but it's not a good argument for making that the default on a billion computers.

If you are going to push all responsibility to the user to always lock the session when going pee or getting a glass of water, then I guess I can't discuss this any further. In your mind, UAC is flawless - the user ought to physically secure his/her PC better.

I never said UAC is flawless. You're assigning responsibilities to UAC that were not a part of its design. You're saying that UAC with consent prompts is bad for keeping your machine safe from kids while you're getting a drink. Fine, I'll agree. But it wasn't designed to be good at that, so you might as well complain that a Macbook isn't very good at toasting bread.

My point has been this: There are security advantages to using consent prompts over credential prompts for UAC and its intended function.

That doesn't have to mean there's a lack of security advantages to a different model.

For me, the added security layer (yes, that is what it is) of prompting for a password is easy to do, and does effectively prevent unauthorized changes. As a father and family man, where my PC is available for any other family member to use (and they do have separate accounts, so they can 'switch user' to them), I find it silly to physically secure my machine behind locked doors, or even Win+L to lock it if the doorbell rings. The Linux solution works with me on this, where the Windows one requires extra steps to be performed by the user.

Again, the Linux solution isn't really a solution. Maybe it will stop your kids from deleting system files, but it won't stop them from doing damage or abusing your account. What you're discussing is the physical security of your PC and the access security of your account/session (and data). Both of those are quite different from isolating application privileges between different processes on the same desktop and in the same user session.

^^^ And the prevention of damage to system configuration/files as I described is exactly the protection that a password provides.

To the user/admin him/herself, it really doesn't much matter one way or the other, except for the "hey, it's asking for a password, it must be a serious change" factor.

My point of view is that UAC could benefit from a password entry - even if just for family use, where kids and parents may share the same accounts. (I don't! I have separate kid accounts, but some families just use one account for everyone, and the password will prevent system corruption - not user data, admittedly).

But that's Microsoft's choice. And I think that I have adequately described my home situation (and likely the home computer use of many other users across the world), and that a password entry does have an advantage for system security at the local level.

Remote? Sure, if I am dumb enough to click OK to running an unknown app while downloading "HOTTNUDEMODEL.jpeg.EXE", then I would likely authorize it with a password. I don't think UAC or gksudo or such protect bad (and powerful admin-type) users from themselves.

EDIT:

P.S. I think we have taken this thread horribly off-topic with a single specific item, but it certainly has been a productive and interesting conversation handled factually and maturely, in my opinion.

Ditch the kernel. its even older then my grandma. Maybe then i reconsier but for that time me and windows wont be close:P

Ummm... It gets constantly updated.

Linux, too, is technically on an old foundation, but gets constantly updated.

A total kernel dump and re-write would be kind of pointless (on either platform), I think.

P.S. I think we have taken this thread horribly off-topic with a single specific item, but it certainly has been a productive and interesting conversation handled factually and maturely, in my opinion.

Agreed. And yeah, this should probably have gone in the Great UAC Debate thread :) I just like to point out to people that there are indeed security advantages to the consent model, as many people seem to assume it is automatically "less secure" than using a password. From some perspectives it might be, but from others it can in fact be "more secure."

I think the default was chosen to favor useability. Unfortunately, using consent prompts has the useability disadvantage of requiring the secure desktop switch to be completely secure. As with everything, trade-offs have to be made, and such trade-offs can always be revisited.

Ok I came up with this list originally for Barry Goffe and Chris Anderson, one of the PM's at MS in charge of Ultimate Extras, but it seems he's no longer in charge of that team. So maybe hey Brandon have a gander...hehe....And yea Im very very content with Vista x64 business runs solid no issues at all. But it would be nice to have something more robust with more features to compete with others in the game.

Here we go:

1. Microsoft Fabric from MS Research or Madotate.

2. Plugin to Add a drive in Explorer that is directly connected to Skydrive.

3. An IRC Client written in WPF

4. An SSH Client written in WPF

5. Plugin for Windows Live Photogallery to get Mantle view, Docked view, and Flip3D view.

6. Larger Live Previews for Documents, and Media files.

7. GUI written in WPF for Volume Shadow Copy

8. Give Powerusers Manpages on Powershell and how to write scripts to manipulate the system faster. (Instead of searching sites have it integrated into windows help and support)

9. Give users more documentation on how to create gadgets faster and easier. (Instead of searching sites have it integrated into windows help and support oh and make help and support look more like IIS7 manager. )

10. Lite Advanced Source Code Editor that has every feature imaginable from writing scripts for Powershell to having the right tools for writing code for gadgets. (For the people that dont want to install the Visual Studio packages, with restrictions of features of course.)

11. Scientific calculator that works for programmers, engineers, and statistical analysis.

12. Make a Live.com Community for developer collaboration, poweruser collaboration, and end user collaboration moderated by Head Program Managers to get a better perspective of what the Windows Userbase is really thinking. (An IRC Server with channels would be nice. Yes I know Technet, Channel9, on10.net but its an idea.)

13. Optimize the Windows Sidebar code. ( Seriously you guys botched on that one)

14. Dictionary, come on guys this is needed.

15. Systemwide spellchecker.

16. Give us some themes for Windows Media Player 11/12.

17. Have Microsoft hire the developer of Locate32. ( The Indexing engine in Vista is OK but needs work, I disabled it and use Locate32, its seemingly faster and instant, this is just something to look at)

18. Live Font Previews. (not really something that is in die or need but its nice to have )

19. Integrate a Notes System onto the desktop with Windows Calender and other Office applications. (Curently Im using Stickies and hott notes, as for hott notes only thing I like is that I can hide the notes and bring them back with a hotkey and get a blacked out screen with just the notes, I'd combine the stickies with hotkeys and a blackout screen like the one you get with a UAC warning whenever you use a hotkey, now that would be cool. )

20. Make a XPS Viewer App. ( Come on guys you can get this in easy)

21. Something I like to use alot lately is WikiPad, mainly to take notes and organize them. I know OneNote is great but lacks features. Have a look at WikiPad its just an idea.

22. Windows Error Log viewer with detailed views and explanations. (This would be for powerusers )

23. Integrate Windows Cardspace/User Account/Live/Hotmail and Auto-Complete system wide so when you have to input things there automatic. (Of course with Security in mind include a strict password and a 4 digit pin at logon of Windows if you want to use CardSpace, so if you want the Windows to know your going to login with CardSpace enabled at the login you'd input the 4 digit pin. Everytime there's a form to fill it'd be automatic and be inputted by the information provided when the CardSpace account was created.)

24. Hire the developers of CoreForce its a firewall based off of PF. ( Very robust firewall best of all its based on PF riddled with features.)

25. Screensaver maker. (This could be useful for students and presentations )

26. Themes for Windows DVD Maker. ( Or give us the tool to make the menu's ourselves.)

27. Plugins for Windows Movie Maker. ( You guys know you could've added a ton more features to this, its too bland.)

28. An integrated File Wiper, DOD compliant. (I know there's sdelete and cipher but it'd be nice to have it directly integrated into explorer or the recycle bin. )

30. TripleDES Encryption options for files. Or give us options.

31. Multi-Desktop support. (This should have been included already come on guys get with the program.)

32. Individual Powershell console written in WPF. ( Transparency would look hot here. Tabs would work too.)

33. Update DiskCleanup so it takes care of the winsxs folder.

I want following,

1. Built-in Archive Utilities which can open different format of archive files.

2. Built-in reg cleaner, Junk file cleaner.

3. PNG Icon support

4. Audio & Video converter

5. More beautiful GUI

6. WinFS

If you let me, I'll comment on these :)

1. Microsoft Fabric from MS Research or Madotate.

I have no idea what this is.

http://research.microsoft.com/Research/dow...13/Details.aspx ??

2. Plugin to Add a drive in Explorer that is directly connected to Skydrive.

Connection to SkyDrive or Mesh would be great however this could get messy with antitrust.

3. An IRC Client written in WPF

Non-MS chat protocol won't happen. Also possible anti-trust isssues.

4. An SSH Client written in WPF

Non-MS admin protocol, won't happen.

5. Plugin for Windows Live Photogallery to get Mantle view, Docked view, and Flip3D view.

Ok, that would be awesome. However that's Windows Live and not Windows 7

6. Larger Live Previews for Documents, and Media files.

Even larger? You mean QuickLook style? Guess people would like that.

7. GUI written in WPF for Volume Shadow Copy

Why? The current GUI is enough for most? The UI should be more present tough however I would hate a 3D one like OSX TimeMachine.

8. Give Powerusers Manpages on Powershell and how to write scripts to manipulate the system faster. (Instead of searching sites have it integrated into windows help and support)

This depens on weither PS would be standard in Win7. Let's hope it is.

9. Give users more documentation on how to create gadgets faster and easier. (Instead of searching sites have it integrated into windows help and support oh and make help and support look more like IIS7 manager. )

There should be more info on MSDN.com you mean? It shouldn't be part of the OS itself as it is development work.

10. Lite Advanced Source Code Editor that has every feature imaginable from writing scripts for Powershell to having the right tools for writing code for gadgets. (For the people that dont want to install the Visual Studio packages, with restrictions of features of course.)

Again .. depends on PS being included or not. It would make a nice addiction to PS.

11. Scientific calculator that works for programmers, engineers, and statistical analysis.

I beleive we're getting this :D.. awesome.

12. Make a Live.com Community for developer collaboration, poweruser collaboration, and end user collaboration moderated by Head Program Managers to get a better perspective of what the Windows Userbase is really thinking. (An IRC Server with channels would be nice. Yes I know Technet, Channel9, on10.net but its an idea.)

Windows Live feature, not Win7. PM's should look into it of get executive reports from it. Not moderate it as that takes too much work. I don't think this will happen looking at the current workflow of MS teams.

13. Optimize the Windows Sidebar code. ( Seriously you guys botched on that one)

Agreed.. Lose JS in favor for something more secure and managed.

14. Dictionary, come on guys this is needed.

Hmm I see EU trouble with this one

15. Systemwide spellchecker.

Possible EU trouble again .. Bringing these features to the main OS itself, almost certainly locks out 3rd party software doing this.

16. Give us some themes for Windows Media Player 11/12.

Good idea :) ... almost 100% certain it won't happen tough.

17. Have Microsoft hire the developer of Locate32. ( The Indexing engine in Vista is OK but needs work, I disabled it and use Locate32, its seemingly faster and instant, this is just something to look at)

You mean cmdline based searching .. don't know about that.

18. Live Font Previews. (not really something that is in die or need but its nice to have )

+1

19. Integrate a Notes System onto the desktop with Windows Calender and other Office applications. (Curently Im using Stickies and hott notes, as for hott notes only thing I like is that I can hide the notes and bring them back with a hotkey and get a blacked out screen with just the notes, I'd combine the stickies with hotkeys and a blackout screen like the one you get with a UAC warning whenever you use a hotkey, now that would be cool. )

This feature would require some new standard framework for apps to hang on to. I don't think they'll go trough the hassle of all this.

20. Make a XPS Viewer App. ( Come on guys you can get this in easy)

You're getting this I believe..

21. Something I like to use alot lately is WikiPad, mainly to take notes and organize them. I know OneNote is great but lacks features. Have a look at WikiPad its just an idea.

I'm not sure what WikiPad has over OneNote but OneNote is very well featured. MS won't include this kinds of functionallity in the core OS itself as it's Office-specific work and would hurt OneNote sales.

22. Windows Error Log viewer with detailed views and explanations. (This would be for powerusers )

You already have this. Event viewer can tell you every little detail on your system.

23. Integrate Windows Cardspace/User Account/Live/Hotmail and Auto-Complete system wide so when you have to input things there automatic. (Of course with Security in mind include a strict password and a 4 digit pin at logon of Windows if you want to use CardSpace, so if you want the Windows to know your going to login with CardSpace enabled at the login you'd input the 4 digit pin. Everytime there's a form to fill it'd be automatic and be inputted by the information provided when the CardSpace account was created.)

They're trying to this with CardSpace but lacks operability. Problem lies with industry.

24. Hire the developers of CoreForce its a firewall based off of PF. ( Very robust firewall best of all its based on PF riddled with features.)

Don't know CoreForce so can't really comment on this one. The standard Vista firewall however is quite secure, fast and manageble (easy and advanced .. depending on user)

25. Screensaver maker. (This could be useful for students and presentations )

Hmm .. I'd like a new and more secure screensaver format. Not EXE's.

26. Themes for Windows DVD Maker. ( Or give us the tool to make the menu's ourselves.)

Not going to happen I think.

27. Plugins for Windows Movie Maker. ( You guys know you could've added a ton more features to this, its too bland.)

Not going to happen I think.

28. An integrated File Wiper, DOD compliant. (I know there's sdelete and cipher but it'd be nice to have it directly integrated into explorer or the recycle bin. )

+1

30. TripleDES Encryption options for files. Or give us options.

I believe you can set some options on EFS. EFS itself is quite secure.

31. Multi-Desktop support. (This should have been included already come on guys get with the program.)

They had a little powertoy for XP. I wonder however how many people would understand and use this feature. Some users have difficulty finding apps already. Don't bring multiple to them.

Altough I won't use, they could include it and activate it on demand (ala Spaces)

32. Individual Powershell console written in WPF. ( Transparency would look hot here. Tabs would work too.)

I believe there are some 3rd apps for this. I'm guessing you won't get this from MS.

33. Update DiskCleanup so it takes care of the winsxs folder.

WinSXS folder is managed by the OS itself I believe.

Lots of the first suggestions in this list are just apps or app features that Windows would already support. I'm not sure what having it in the box would gain people.

6. Larger Live Previews for Documents, and Media files.

Larger than what? Thumbnails can already get way larger than is practical. There's also the preview pane, which I'll agree should be made more accessible.

7. GUI written in WPF for Volume Shadow Copy

Why WPF? That is... why does the technology matter? Are you really just asking for a VSC UI with fancy graphics?

17. Have Microsoft hire the developer of Locate32. ( The Indexing engine in Vista is OK but needs work, I disabled it and use Locate32, its seemingly faster and instant, this is just something to look at)

Locate32 does about 1% of what Windows Search does. Hardly a worthwhile comparison.

Brandon, your on the shell team I take it? If so, good stuff, keep up the good work man. :) (FYI, incase a dingleberry is asking, no I'm not brownnosing, or ass kissing or whatever, Windows 7 really DOES look good, just kinda wish Vista looked like that to begin with)

A lot of the features that kept me from buying 7 are now IN 7, for instance, big pet peeve, UI Unification, inclusion of the Ribbon interface on basic apps, the removal of various applications that I have not once opened since Windows ME, -coughMovieMakercough-, the ability to customize the installation prior to installation, something I deerly missed since the 9x days.

Sorry guys but most of you are not technical literate enough to request OS features. So what you want and what you think is "cool" or "nice to have" is not relevant. This is not an entertainment product, the business is relaying on it and the end users are staying at the "end" of the line. If it was a video game, then its ok but it is not. No offence,

Sorry guys but most of you are not technical literate enough to request OS features. So what you want and what you think is "cool" or "nice to have" is not relevant. This is not an entertainment product, the business is relaying on it and the end users are staying at the "end" of the line. If it was a video game, then its ok but it is not. No offence,

Well thats a pretty nasty elitist statement you just made.

Hey, Brandon I should've put Embedded Live Previews (viewing whats inside a document or archive without opening it), as for the WPF, if I remember correctly Longhorn in build 4093 before it got rewritten was using WPF, something that looked fantastic, and now still hasnt been seen to date in Vista (as far as i know, I could be wrong), just wondering when the power of WPF and everything I keep seeing on Channel9 about all the new capabilities of the new .Net 3.5 are gonna be implemented into windows seems Windows 7 would be a good start.

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Continuum/WPFFX/

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Continuum/WPFFXDemo/

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Continuum/3...ControlsForWPF/

Hey, Brandon I should've put Embedded Live Previews (viewing whats inside a document or archive without opening it)

Again, still not sure how this differs from large thumbnails or the preview pane?

Again, still not sure how this differs from large thumbnails or the preview pane?

I think he may be hinting at a hybrid of both, essentially a huge interactive icon for files.

This would work well with media files, but probably not documents.

Oh, let me throw in a suggestion: what about a 'super' tooltip that replaces the preview pane? So you click or hover over a file and a half-invisible box floats over the file, like the floating toolbar in Word 2007. You click on the box and it expands to a floating mini window which allows you to view the file's contents.

Ergh... this sounds too close to Quick Look. Then there will be more accusations of copying :pinch:

Ditch the kernel. its even older then my grandma. Maybe then i reconsier but for that time me and windows wont be close:P

facepalm.jpeg

So your grandma's nineteen years old? AIII YAH!

A few things.

For some reason in Vista, the Personal folder randomly changes it's view settings for me. I set the window size to how I want it (3 tiles wide), and after a few months, it'll randomly default back to a size that only allows 2. No matter what I do to it, after following many tweak guides and tips, it will not remember that I want it to be 3 wide - and sometimes it decides I want a different view altogether! Showing me thumbnails and lists. This is literally changing in seconds - open Personal, wrong, close, open Personal, totally different?

In WMP, it has a great feature that auto-sizes the columns based on how much information is being displayed to you. So if you have a long song name, it makes the track column wider so you may see the whole track name: Death Whispered a Lullaby, as opposed to something like this: Death Whispe... - Incorporate this into Explorer! At the moment, if you use a List view, it gives hardly any room for the Filename column, and loads of other space for less important stuff like File Last Accessed. If they can't do this, at least allow us to set a default size for all list views globally!

They could also get it to start a bit quicker - this can't be too hard. Currently as soon as you install your array of programs and drivers (and accompanying programs), your startup time skyrockets. I'm not talking about "seeing" the desktop, Im talking about your hard disk CPU and RAM calming down so you can actually do something. There's a setting for services in Vista, "Delayed Startup". Set this to on for all services, AND startup programs, that arent part of the OS by default. Only grant half the CPU/RAM/HDD access that it currently does, so as soon as the OS is started you can do something while the rest of your things finish loading. Can't be that hard!

Finally, it would be pretty nifty if they gave us a TABBED Explorer. They have done it with IE, now with Explorer please!

Edited by pasty2k2
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • I gave the tool a chance the other day to make a USB. An hour later it was stuck at 0% downloaded. I downloaded the official ISO, downloaded Rufus, and made the USB myself in 15 min.
    • <Moved to software discussion and support> I've got fond memories of Winamp. Changing the skins, the different visualisations etc. But now I just need a simple music player. MSN messenger would be another one, MSN Messenger Plus (I think?) offered so many different plugins. But again, it probably wouldn't work for me these days. And then there is miRC. i think it's still going these days, but lord i had fun with that back in the day. Now it's mostly stuff like Discord, WhatsApp group chats, Signal, Telegram... /me is showing his age...
    • ive always been fascinated by old software this is an old video player for windows from apple
    • In the way that you framed it incorrectly. You wrote: "The constant need to close all browser sessions and wait for a new version to install" There's no "constant need to close all browser sessions". That's factually incorrect. The browser downloads its updates in the background and installs them when you open it again. Silently. And there's no "wait for a new version to install", updates are small and take 2-3 extra seconds AT MOST, if any. If you have an SSD, there's zero extra time. Also, every mainstream browser operates this way. Firefox, the FOSS go-to browser, the default on almost every Linux distro, does exactly the same. Also, you don't need to constantly restart Edge for updates to install, you can completely ignore them and it doesn't even ask you to handle them, it's all silent and automatic. So I don't understand what else do you want.
    • DuRoBo Krono Review: Portable E-Ink reader with great ideas that need a bit of improvement by Taras Buria Phone-sized e-readers are gaining traction these days, with more people treating them as a getaway device to cure phone addiction (or at least they are trying to) or having a more pocket-friendly reader that is easier to carry and hold. The market now has plenty of such readers to choose from, and DuRoBo is the latest addition, a new player that offers a more interesting approach to the idea. The Krono is a $279 e-reader with an interesting twist, which tries to make the device more fun and ergonomic. Here is my review. Disclaimer: DuRoBo provided the review sample without any editorial input or pre-approval. The Krono comes in a phone-sized box with pink accents. Inside, you get the device itself, a short user manual, and a USB cable. The cable is a bit old-fashioned, Type-A to Type-C, which is a bit disappointing. Hot take: I would rather have no cable in the box rather than another Type-A cable that gets immediately thrown into my box full of similar cables I never use. The Krono also has no charger in the box, as it relies on accessories you already own, which is fine with me. Here are the specs: Dimensions 154 x 80 x 9.0 mm or 6.06" x 3.15" x 0.35" 173 g or 6.10 oz Materials Black or White plastic Display 6.13-inch E-Ink Carta 1200, 1,648 x 824 pixels, 300 ppi Touch-capacitive. Dual-tone frontlight. Processor 8-core Qualcomm Snapdragon 690 (QTI SM6350) 2 performance cores at 2.07 GHz 4 efficiency cores at 1.71 GHz Memory 6 GB Storage 128GB, non-expandable ~104GB available out-of-the-box Operating system Android 15 with a custom launcher Connectivity Wi-Fi and Bluetooth Battery 3,950 mAh battery Buttons and port USB Type-C port Power button, Volume button, Smart Dial Breathing Lights Audio Mono Speaker and Dual microphones In the box The Krono, a Type-A to Type-C cable, user manual Price $279 on Amazon First impressions Right off the bat, no, this is not a phone replacement. Do not approach this device thinking it can serve you as a dumb phone to cure your TikTok addiction. In addition to the fact that the Krono has no cellular connectivity, I strongly believe that no amount of extra devices can fix your phone addiction until you put some serious effort into it. The Krono is a phone-sized e-reader, a companion for your phone dedicated to reading without distractions. The DuRoBo Krono is made of plastic with a very fine texture. It is hardly premium, but I also cannot say it feels cheap. The device is also a bit thick, quite dense, and well-built without rattling or cracking. You get to choose between two colors: white and black. The front has quite thick bezels, which is hardly surprising for an e-ink device. These things use front light, with LEDs usually placed on the screen perimeter. While I do not mind thicker bezels, the notably larger chin cheapens the look a little. What I mind is a notable seam between the display and the main case, which, after just two days of use, collected plenty of dust and specks. The back of the Krono is what makes the device stand out. There is a cylinder (DuRoBo calls it the Axis) embedded in the back of the reader, housing three elements: a power button on the right edge, a Smart Dial on the left edge, and "Breathing Lights" on the back. An etched DuRoBo logo sits below the cylinder, and it is the only piece of branding you can find on the device. Overall, the design and materials are very unassuming, but the cylinder with additional control elements certainly elevates the look and makes it more interesting. Other physical elements include two microphones (one on the top edge and one on the bottom edge), a USB Type-C port, a volume rocker, and a single mono speaker. There is no fingerprint reader, so if you want to protect your device, a PIN is your only option. The official TPU case is not the most premium-looking Display The Krono has a 6.1-inch E-Ink Carta 1200 touchscreen display with a resolution of 1,648 x 824 pixels (300 ppi). The display is front-lit, and you can adjust the brightness and temperature from cool to warm. Unfortunately, the Krono lacks automatic brightness and temperature adjustments, and you cannot set a custom schedule for the frontlight. However, you can set it to always enable frontlight so that you can see what is happening on the screen when turning it on in a dark environment. On the bright side (get it?), the front light can get extremely dim so that the screen is barely readable in a pitch-dark room. The front light is also uniform across the screen, with no noticeable temperature gradients. I am very susceptible to uneven front light, and it is very easy for me to notice it, but the Krono is doing a very good job in this area. I also like that the edge shadow is not very prominent and barely visible in the black variant. E-Ink Carta 1200 is not the newest generation (there are Carta 1250 and 1300), but it is still a good display. It supports three modes: Clarity, Speed, and Quality. In Clarity mode, text is very sharp and easy to read, but you trade that for more ghosting, a slower refresh rate, and more artifacts when the display changes images. Speed mode, as the name suggests, boosts refresh rate and reduces ghosting, but fine print and text become more jagged. Finally, Quality mode is only available in Android apps. It has the lowest refresh rate, but in return, you get much better visuals, improved gradients, and more. Like brightness and temperature, you can toggle modes from the control center. It is available when swiping from the top-right corner of the screen (the top-left is for notifications). I also like that the Krono can work as a desk clock when not in use. It has a bunch of screensavers, including horizontal clocks with time, date, and current battery level. The screen refreshes once per minute, and battery drain is extremely low (not even 1% in 24 hours). It is a great use of the technology, and another thing I wish more e-ink devices featured. Smart Dial The Smart Dial is Krono's main party trick. It sits on the left side of the device and serves multiple purposes. You can twist or press it to perform various actions, depending on the current use case scenario. When reading books, twisting the dial flips through pages, and pressing it refreshes the screen. On the home screen, the dial adjusts the brightness, and holding the dial pressed launches voice note recording. Finally, a quick double press launches the DuRoBo AI chatbot. While the dial scroll is not notched, it is very smooth and has haptic feedback that confirms your actions, which feels very nice. As a long-term Apple Watch user, I love the idea behind the dial. It feels very natural and oddly satisfying to use, especially with that subtle haptic feedback. I never liked flipping pages with touch input, and I strongly believe each e-reader should come with some sort of physical controls for turning pages. The Krono has both volume buttons (which also work as page turners) and the dial, so you are free to use whichever you prefer. With that said, the dial is not perfect. For one, it sticks out of the case way too far for my liking, raising concerns about durability and longevity when carrying the Krono around in a pocket (it is a pocket-sized device after all). Also, it has too much wobble, which cheapens the experience and makes it feel a bit flimsy and unsecured. While there are two plastic guards on the Krono's case, they are way too small for any kind of protection. I also think DuRoBo should let users customize dial actions (the only available customization is scroll direction), particularly for long and double presses. Not everyone needs voice notes, and DuRoBo AI does not work without an active internet connection, leaving the long press essentially useless when offline. I do not mind these features, and I genuinely think they are useful, but I would rather have the ability to toggle between screen modes, turn the frontlight on/off, or launch my favorite app. I also agree with people on Reddit asking developers to let users adjust the dial sensitivity. I hope this is something DuRoBo can implement with a software update to make the experience more personalized (it is a Smart Dial, after all) and incentivize users to fiddle with the Dial more often. The Dial is a fantastic idea, so please, guys, improve it a little. As for ergonomics, they are mostly fine, but the dial's position may feel a little awkward and way too high. When I use a phone or a phone-sized gadget, I tend to rest one of its corners on my palm for a more secure grip. With the Krono, such a grip is impossible because you cannot reach the dial even with big hands. You have to lower the reader a bit and hold it like a bottle without any extra support for the bottom edge. Such a grip is not necessarily uncomfortable (the Krono is also light enough for it), but it requires a bit of muscle retraining. Sometimes, I do not bother with the dial and hold the Krono like my phone, flipping through pages with volume buttons, as they are perfectly positioned for my right-hand thumb. Interestingly, when testing the Krono, I would often find myself thinking that a roller embedded in the long plastic cylinder on the back of the device would have been a much more comfortable solution. There is a free idea for you, guys. Software The Krono runs Android 15 with a very minimal launcher on top. The home screen presents you with a list of apps, a scrollable list of widgets, and your user profile. Widgets can display time, calendar, or recent books for quick access. You can also add or remove apps from the home screen to keep the most useful stuff around without tapping "Apps." I like this minimalistic approach; it looks clean, easy to understand, and light. I understand that some may find the list of all apps way too clean, but fortunately, DuRoBo lets you switch to traditional icons. The reader also has a bunch of preinstalled apps: Read: The default app for reading. Browser: A Chromium-based browser. Files: A simple file manager. Music: A simple music player. Spark: A voice recorder with transcription support and AI summarization DuRoBo AI: A built-in AI chatbot. Transfer: An app for file transfer over Wi-Fi. If that is not enough, there is the Google Play Store, where you can download all the extra apps you need, alternative readers, podcast apps, chatbots, and more. DuRoBo is not trying to give you an all-in-one device. The standard software experience is quite minimal, which makes it easy to approach and learn. The standard reader supports EPUB, EPUB3, AZW3, MOBI, PDF, TXT, DOC, and DOCX, which is more than enough to let you read most books without third-party software. As for customizing the reading experience, you can select one of five built-in fonts, adjust size and thickness, adjust margins and spacing (only three variants for each), change text alignment and direction, toggle the reading status bar, and switch to dark mode. There is also text-to-speech, which utilizes Android's default TTS tech. While I like the simplistic approach, I cannot help but feel DuRoBo could have made the built-in reader a bit more customizable. However, I am not going to bog down on this, as you can always install any other reader you prefer using the Play Store or by sideloading an APK. Getting books to the Krono is very simple. Given that the device is an Android smartphone without cellular connectivity, you can transfer files via a USB Type-C cable, download them using the built-in browser, share them over Bluetooth, or use cloud storage. My favorite was the built-in Transfer app. It is simple, reliable, and very well-designed. I was surprised by how well-designed the web portal is. It is fast, pretty, and properly categorized. Well done! Once you have your books loaded, you can highlight or underline text, add annotations, bookmark pages, check the table of contents, and ask AI about the selected text. Unfortunately, the Krono has no built-in vocabulary, but again, that is something a third-party reader could fix. Overall, the built-in reader is light and snappy, with just the minimum amount of features for a regular user to enjoy reading books. The Krono has no built-in reading tracking, so stat nerds will have to look for third-party reading apps. However, you can set a daily reading goal, and the reader will notify you when you reach it (for example, one hour). You can also set a reminder to read at a certain time, and when the time comes, the Krono will light up its back LEDs and unlock itself to nudge you. Other than that, the rear LEDs do nothing, not even showing charging progress, which is an unfortunate misopportunity if you ask me. Quirks aside, Krono's Android runs quite snappily and bug-free. Early reviews of the Krono criticized its Android 13-based software quite a lot, but now, the reader runs Android 15, and its software has fixed plenty of initial complaints. I never experienced any issues with built-in apps. AI attempts The DuRoBo Krono comes with a built-in AI chatbot. There is no information on what model powers this thing, but the system says it was "trained by Google." You can launch the bot from the app list or by double-pressing the dial. It works just like any other chatbot, and you can ask it anything by typing or using voice input. The AI saves your chats, and you can rename, export, or delete them. DuRoBo AI requires an active internet connection, and it does not work offline. Its reach and capabilities are also limited. You can only chat in the app and use it in the reader app as a makeshift vocabulary. However, the implementation is kinda awkward. You can only send a selected portion of text to AI without giving it any requests or instructions. I highlighted the word "dumb," and it apologized to me for not being useful. You also cannot ask follow-up questions or send the generated response to a separate chat. The chatbot is also slow, even with fast Wi-Fi, making the overall experience quite frustrating, which makes me again wish for the ability to remap the double press to something else. Spark, the standard voice recording app, also uses AI for note summarization and transcribing. Neither feature works offline, unfortunately. Spark records notes up to 30 minutes using Krono's dual microphones, and you can rename or export notes. Transcription quality is decent, and the speed is alright, but you can find much better solutions in the Google Play Store. What I like about Spark is that transcribed notes are not locked, and you can always type more to elaborate on your ideas, which is handy. Overall, I like that the Krono is not shoving AI down my throat, but to be honest, there is really not that much to shove. AI features here feel raw and need improvements to be more useful. Battery Life Like most E-Ink readers, the Krono has fantastic battery life. Even with a clock as a screensaver, its standby power consumption is incredibly low. And when in use, you can get weeks of reading on a single charge. Without the front light, my unit never sipped more than one or two percent of battery during a one-hour reading session. It was nice to see plenty of battery-related settings. You can limit charging at 80% to protect battery health long-term, check the number of charging cycles, manufacturing/first-time use date, battery health, and the maximum capacity. Additionally, the Krono lets you select what hardware remains enabled when sleeping. This lets you keep Wi-Fi and Bluetooth on (say, if you want to receive notifications, for some reason) and keep audio playing when locked. Turning these features off effectively eliminates any standby battery drain. I left my Krono sitting for 24 hours with a clock screensaver on, and it did not drop a single percent. The pretty big 3,950 mAh battery justifies the device's thickness and ensures you do not have to charge it for long periods. Speaking of charging, it is capped at only 10W, which is a bit disappointing, as getting such a big battery to 100% takes a notably long time in the era of super-fast charging smartphones. DuRoBo Moodi The Moodi is a standalone, optional accessory for your Krono. It is a wireless remote with two customizable buttons that you can use to flip pages, control media, or scroll webpages. The accessory connects via Bluetooth. Despite having a built-in rechargeable battery, it is extremely light. While the Moodi's shape and form factor is not what I would call particularly ergonomic, it is not uncomfortable to hold and use. The Moodi comes with six removable magnetic buttons with various smiley faces. Buttons sit securely, and they have nice-feeling, albeit a little loud, clicks. It is a cute touch that adds a little more fun and character to the device. There is also an accented power button and a single status LED. The latter displays charging status and connection mode. The Moodi supports three modes: Reading: Buttons work as volume buttons, allowing you to flip pages in the built-in reader or other apps that support page turning with volume buttons. Media: Buttons work as skip forward/backward, which is useful when listening to audiobooks, podcasts, or music. Scroll: The third mode lets you scroll pages in the web browser or any other application The Krono properly detects the Moodi and presents you with an on-screen guide when you connect it for the first time (it also displays the battery level). However, you can only change modes by holding both buttons for a few seconds. It is also worth noting that the Moodi works with other devices. I connected it to my iPhone and it let me adjust volume or control media playback. Sadly, the scroll did not work, so you cannot use it to waste time scrolling TikToks. Overall, the Moodi is a cute little accessory, which I can recommend for those who read a lot. It is very useful for remote page flipping when you do not want to burden your hands by holding the Krono all the time. I only wish DuRoBo included a lanyard for the built-in loop. As for the battery life, after using the Moodi for a few days, I only managed to drop several percent of its 90 mAh battery. Despite the small size, it is rated for weeks of use, which is pretty impressive. At $35.99, I cannot say the Moodi is a must-have accessory, but I see the appeal. I prefer using the Krono with its Smart Dial, as I rarely read for more than 40-60 minutes in one sitting. However, if you have a stand and like reading for long periods, the Moodi is the right thing to have. It is a bit more expensive than regular page flippers on Amazon, but it is on par with similar products from Kobo or BOOX. Plus, it has a little more fun to it with removable buttons and better integration into the Krono. Conclusion At the end of the day, DuRoBo Krono is a nice pocket-sized e-reader. Its software focuses on the main things without trying to be everything at once. The smart dial idea is unique and great, and I wish more manufacturers had something similar in their devices. The display is also good, with an even frontlight and "always-on" support. I did not notice any deal-breaking issues with the Krono. However, you can feel that the idea needs some improvements, such as a slightly stiffer dial in a more ergonomic location, perhaps a little more premium materials, and better software customization. I hope the company won't give up on the idea and improve the dial and ergonomics in the second generation. Buy DuRoBo Krono Black - $279.99 on Amazon Buy DuRoBo Krono White - $279.99 on Amazon Buy DuRoBo Moodi - $35.99 on Amazon As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
  • Recent Achievements

    • Conversation Starter
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
    • One Month Later
      AndreaB earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • One Month Later
      agatameier earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      agatameier earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      ssd21345 earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      518
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      195
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      147
    4. 4
      ATLien_0
      96
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      77
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!